Intelligence on ATS

I don't think i have ever read a post with spelling mistakes that didn't make sense. And that is what language is for...to communicate, if it achieved it's purpose then i have nothing to complain about. The only thing i can't stand is text speak. Im not a member of any social sites but have friends that are and it drives me up the wall trying to decipher what people are going on about. Replacing letters with numbers and god knows what else. The only thing i bring up sometimes is people spelling lose as loose, but only because it is absolutely rampant all over the internet and not because i think the people who spell it that way are not intelligent. It's akin to other people seeing 11:11 all the time...very frustrating.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by Solomons]

This is an issue that will never go away, simply because it can't. why? because there is only one Queens English, which as an English man is the only way to speak and write English, Even i cant get the writing and spelling part right, though my speech is just about there. I could complain on most posts that the American English is wrong, or they way someone in Europe is wrong, but the fact is, the English language has been forced on the world, without them asking if they mind, it has become the second language of most people of the world, and some of them struggle.

Let me just say, i have notice a lot of none English people have a fare superior understanding and knowledge than many English people do, in fact if you were to hear the way they attempt to speak English in most London areas you would think it a different country to England. I can't understand them

So IMO, if your command of the English written or spoken word inst up to scratch, Cont worry about it, if you are able to get your message across to others, it really doesn't matter, if someone complains about your grammar in a post, but has nothing to say about the subject in hand, I would complain about their comment being off topic, especially if the thread has nothing to do with spelling or grammar. I would also suggest the reason people make such posts is because they may have a good grasp of English, in their own opinion, but they don't have much of a grasp on any thing else, least of all the subject matter of he OP.

Ignore them, leave them alone and eventually they will get fed up and go away. live and let live i say, just say it as it sound, don't worry about it.

I cant spell for ...that brown stuff you cant write the name of on here without getting your post edited or removed. However, I can think ! And here of all places I would expect that particular endevour to be more important. Obviously if there is a deeper communication problem, for instance basic scentence structure, then that can cause confusion, but if you are getting hassle PURELY on the basis of spelling, then I think some people may just be in need of a friendly slap in the swinging sack of flesh we are not allowed to mention the common name of on this site.

Can I put some subjective debate items in here for you lot?

1) Not everyone is American. Therefore, alot of the things written in American slang wont be understood by us 'others' that don't speak Yank. Solution? Don't write in American slang, or worse, 'text speak'.

2) Intellectual superiority wins. Every time. You're only jealous of it if you don't have it. Is it bad to be intellectually superior? No. Is it bad to rub that intellectual superiority in peoples faces? Of course. Do some people need it rubbed in their faces by displaying wilful ignorance & arrogance? Most definitely. Being thick isn't a crime, it's a lifestyle - one that nobody (given time to know better) can defend.

3) Spelling. Given the nature of the sometimes complex topics being discussed on ATS, and the fact that it is easy to be misunderstood on forums, clarity of speech is important. I don't promote fastidious 'spelling police' style antics, but I do think alot of the active members, and lurkers could do with putting more effort into their posts. Too many resemble scrawlings of a 5 year old. That doesn't do the forums integrity any good.

To the OP -

You sound like you have lived the American Dream. Good for you!

Not to get too Freudian or Jungian (on yo' ass') but are you looking for confirmation and appraisal of your life from total strangers on the net? Do you need a hug?

Most of all, did you get annoyed by the smart kids at school whilst you languished in the 'lesser' groups? By the sounds of it you worked bloody hard, for not alot of recognition or reward. Don't worry about it.

There will always be people out there eloquent in their speech, and capable in their arguments & intellectual meanderings. But can they build a prize winning Harley? No SIR!

(Not at least until they've studied it, read about it, practiced it, and then done it.)

Being intelligent is different to being clever. You MR OP sound quite intelligent. When you can mix the two, that's when you're in a whole different league.

Parallex.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
If someone uses poor grammar, spelling, or punctuation, does it automatically make their opinion less valid?

No, but it should exclude them from making fun of other people's intelligence.

I have just read a topic where somebody gave some good, friendly advice about the cold, and noticed that somebody mentioned his bad spelling. This annoyed me because it was obvious what he meant. I decided to search if anyone has made a topic about this kind of "superior spelling bullying"... and I ended up here!

I think this is atrocious. Especially when you can understand what the person means. I have been a lurker here for a long time, but only recently started posting, probably for fear of being constantly under scrutiny about such things. I have spoken to many people from across the world on the Internet, from my previous involvement in online gaming, so I am used to the odd typo or incorrect spelling, it doesn't bother me. Also I bear in mind, even if the person lives in an English speaking country, it doesn't mean to say that they use English as a first language. There are other factors involved, like dyslexia or even intoxication!

Anyway, I agree with the first poster when they said that just because somebody doesn't spell everything correctly, doesn't mean their opinions or views should be taken less seriously. I must also point out that I really hate having to read text speak on a forum such as this, yes it does annoy me, but also I will not point it out to them, because that is like shooting the messenger, before you get the message...

reply to post by adifferentbreed


Yes me agree with you aND iMake GOod Bycicle and I do Like MOnKey I lekd the greman too like mR BeeN and madona yes?...just joking i now post video of Reptilian allien eating men yes?

just joking

There's a Sufi tale that comes to mind:

One fine evening a strolling man heard a cry for help from the bottom of a deep well.

"What's the matter?" he called down.

"I am a grammarian," came the reply. "I've fallen and I can't get up."

"Hold on, professor, and I'll fetch up a rope," said the man.

"One moment, please!" called the grammarian. "Your grammar and diction are faulty; be good enough to amend them."

"In that case, I'll go study and return when they are adequate," said the man, leaving the grammarian to his fate.

Intelligence on ATS?

Yeah...

I've heard the rumors that it's here. Still haven't seen any signs so far. I'll keep looking and will post when and if I find some.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I won't comment much on this thread except to say that you seem the need to build up your ego with your list of so called accomplishments.

I just go out and do things and pick up experiences without really thinking about it. I pick up so called "skills" at work or whenever with ease but I don't really consider them skills so I wouldn't really now how to compile a list like you have.

In closing, I think you either have a low self esteem or don't have a grasp of who you are. Maybe you're just too young.

PS.. I'm sure I could compile a list more impressive, but why, what's the point?

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I would also like to say that there's no need to post a 'lil' CV on here, of what your history and achievements are. Just the opinion was enough.

Now I am sounding just like the rest of ATS, argh! but it is true, you could of made your point without all that, because you had a valid point but you are just going against what you said! You don't need backup and proof of your intelligence.

reply to post by adifferentbreed

is that really the way to make a valid point?

No, but it's an excellent way to throw people off balance, and disrupt both their thoughts and a thread. If disruption is your objectives, then mindless insults are often far more effective, and certainly far simpler than most other tactics.

I for one know I definitely verbalize better than I write,
does that make me less intelligent?

Intelligence is one thing. Communication is another. They are separate and distinct. However...let's accept a basic premise: however intelligent someone may be, it doesn't do us much good if they're unable to communicate with us. This being a place where communication is with text, being able to communicate effectively with writing is obviously very useful.

Combining these two ideas...yes, very often the insults you see are deliberate attempts to disrupt. However, just because someone expresses dissatisfaction with your efforts to communicate, does not mean they are necessarily trying to disrupt your thread.

Learning to discern between the two may help you to be less frustrated.

So too will learning when to simply ignore people.

Originally posted by Aquarius1
I can recommend a great little program by Microsoft and it's free...

www.iespell.com...

It will spell check anything anywhere that you type, once installed just right click on text and click on spell check, I am a good speller but still check everything I type before I post just in case.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Aquarius1]

For you Linux users, you don't have to install anything. Open Firefox, and type "about:config" without the quotes. Type in the url bar: layout.spellcheckDefault.
It will be set on =1, modify this to say =2 instead, as in layout.spellcheckDefault = 2. that's it! Restart Firefox and spellchecker will work for you. Hint, this works on Firefox even in Windows.

reply to post by Parallex


Actually, I am quite comforatable with myself, this was more about a trend I've noticed and less about me. I guess I shouldnt have posted the list that I did. It wasn't meant to be self affirming, I guess I didn't explain it right. I was trying to point out some things that I've accomplished in my life, and how they could affect my thoughts, opinions and ideas. We all live different lives, and I think that the things we've experienced in our lives shape our opinions and thoughts, as well as how we may articulate them.......cool response.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed

Actually, I am quite comforatable with myself, this was more about a trend I've noticed and less about me. I guess I shouldnt have posted the list that I did. It wasn't meant to be self affirming, I guess I didn't explain it right. I was trying to point out some things that I've accomplished in my life, and how they could affect my thoughts, opinions and ideas. We all live different lives, and I think that the things we've experienced in our lives shape our opinions and thoughts, as well as how we may articulate them.......cool response.

I see where you are coming from, friend. I think it's great that such a diverse number of people from different parts of the world can come together and discuss issues that affect us all. We may not come from the same country, follow the same religion or have the same skin colour, but we are still able to communicate and share ideas.

Nevertheless, presentation is important to most people. It sets an impression about the person and how seriously they should be taken. People who choose not to put an effort into their spelling and grammar are putting themselves at a disadvantage. They are making it more of a challenge for those reading to understand what they are trying to express. Most people don't expect perfect spelling and grammar, just the bare minimum to make sense and be understood.

English is not an easy language. It is a very flexible language, though, and this is what makes it a good standard for sites such as these. Those that don't know much English can still communicate their ideas and native speakers can still work out what they mean.

This place is a melting pot of humanity and a cross-section of how everyone on this planet feels about everything.

What is important to you is almost guaranteed to be absolute crap to someone else, so just get that in your cranium and deal with it.

We learn to politely defend our positions, else it gets out of control, and there are real life people here with the job of monitoring this traffic and they deal with it most effectively.

The class here is "polite" and the constructor is "relevance".

Proper spelling means that you have the intellectual foundation to make your case, so it is best correct. If English is not your native language, people see that and make allowances for it.

I am not a moderator, but this is the road that I see that leads to competent contributions on this site.

Then, again, who the hell am I, you may say. And that is cool too!

reply to post by adifferentbreed


Interesting thought's, although "intelligence" can be shown, demonstrated, and taught in so many different ways, compared to your original post.

I'm going to post a reply to the quote below.

I will elaborate further to you, the original poster, after that.

Originally posted by Parallex
Can I put some subjective debate items in here for you lot?

1) Not everyone is American. Therefore, alot of the things written in American slang wont be understood by us 'others' that don't speak Yank. Solution? Don't write in American slang, or worse, 'text speak'.

2) Intellectual superiority wins. Every time. You're only jealous of it if you don't have it. Is it bad to be intellectually superior? No. Is it bad to rub that intellectual superiority in peoples faces? Of course. Do some people need it rubbed in their faces by displaying wilful ignorance & arrogance? Most definitely. Being thick isn't a crime, it's a lifestyle - one that nobody (given time to know better) can defend.

3) Spelling. Given the nature of the sometimes complex topics being discussed on ATS, and the fact that it is easy to be misunderstood on forums, clarity of speech is important. I don't promote fastidious 'spelling police' style antics, but I do think alot of the active members, and lurkers could do with putting more effort into their posts. Too many resemble scrawlings of a 5 year old. That doesn't do the forums integrity any good.

To the OP -

You sound like you have lived the American Dream. Good for you!

Not to get too Freudian or Jungian (on yo' ass') but are you looking for confirmation and appraisal of your life from total strangers on the net? Do you need a hug?

Most of all, did you get annoyed by the smart kids at school whilst you languished in the 'lesser' groups? By the sounds of it you worked bloody hard, for not alot of recognition or reward. Don't worry about it.

There will always be people out there eloquent in their speech, and capable in their arguments & intellectual meanderings. But can they build a prize winning Harley? No SIR!

(Not at least until they've studied it, read about it, practiced it, and then done it.)

Being intelligent is different to being clever. You MR OP sound quite intelligent. When you can mix the two, that's when you're in a whole different league.

Parallex.

Parallex,

Well said, your points are exactly why I post the way I post, the reason I post, and as well for the spelling, grammar, content, context, and intent with the way I post.

1) Not everyone is American, nor are every members here, world travelers.

I try my hardest not to utilize slang, text speak, nor what most deem as ignorant terminology.

I try instead to utilize the most common language I can in today's world.

My experience's, knowledge, and passive-aggressive nature, is still seen by some as aggressively hostile, no matter how I post, no matter what time I post, and no matter who I reply to in a post to.

Win some, lose some, six of one, half dozen of another.

2) Yes, I agree with this entire commentary, I've done it, I've seen it done, I've been on the receiving end of it, I learned and moved on, and I'm better as a human being for it, but no better than anyone else on this dust-ball called Earth.

3) Sorry, spelling is something I am highly critical about, call me a "spelling Nazi" if you will, that's anyone's right to do so, not that anyone is necessarily correct, or incorrect, but I have to read what everyone on here writes, just as much as everyone else has to read what I write, or not.

It's a free website, if someone does not like that I spell correctly, or expect others to, well that's everyone else's tough luck, sorry I'm not going to apologize for it.

My reason?

Simple, I am intelligent, and respect intelligence, I respect being treated respectfully, the whole Golden Rule applies to how I post on here, do unto others, and all that.

Most of the time, I ignore people's spelling errors, and when I reply, I spell the word they misspelled correctly, and never say a word to them, only leading by example.

Go ahead and tell me anything herein within this post is arrogant, I really do not care.

I know I'm an arrogant ass, sometimes, more often than not though, I'm respectful, until you or anyone calls into question my content, context, and intent, as well disrespect me in some way that was completely uncalled for due to whatever reason that may be, due to ideological differences of opinion, differences of political views, or that I've slighted someone unknowingly because of my strong views on the world, and everything that encompasses "conspiracy theories".

See, I come here, to post not only about "conspiracy theories", some are and some are not, but about the politics behind them, about the crimes, conspiracies, and collusive behavior of those people in power that I was raised and taught to believe were supposed to protect and serve America, but more often than not they do not, because they could give a damn about the "average Joe".

Arrogant?

Yep, I have the right to be that way, on occasion, it is just a part of who I am.

For the most part people on ATS have never seen my arrogance, I keep it in check.

Most of the time, I'm passive-aggressive, easy-going, and will willingly help anyone on here who asks for it, even those who hate me, even those who ridicule me, even those who philosophically, ideologically, and or politically oppose my views.

Why?

Because, I respect intelligence, intelligence is something I hold dearly, because it is won by hard victory, and lost easily through ignorance, and apathy kills it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3b5310adcda.jpg[/atsimg]



Back to the original poster, adifferentbreed.

I mentioned intelligence originally, and whether this was a part of your thoughts on that word, or not, I will illuminate my thoughts on it, and you take from it what you will.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Intelligence

Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn.

There are several ways to define intelligence. In some cases, intelligence may include traits such as creativity, personality, character, knowledge, or wisdom.

However there is no agreement on which traits define the phenomenon of intelligence agreed upon by a majority across the various concerned disciplines.

Theories of intelligence can be divided into those based on a unilinear construct of general intelligence and those based on multiple intelligences.

Francis Galton, influenced by his cousin Charles Darwin, was the first to advance a theory of general intelligence.

For Galton, intelligence was a real faculty with a biological basis that could be studied by measuring reaction times to certain cognitive tasks.

Galton's research on measuring the head size of British scientists and ordinary citizens led to the conclusion that head size had no relationship with the person's intelligence.

Alfred Binet and the French school of intelligence believed that intelligence was an average of numerous dissimilar abilities, rather than a unitary entity with specific identifiable properties.

The Stanford-Binet intelligence test has been used by both theorists of general intelligence and multiple intelligence.

That's Wikipedia's definition of "intelligence".

To me, intelligence, equals life experience, mixed with book learning, and a wee bit of street smarts, but then again, I've lived through quite a lot, take that as arrogant, or not, your choice, but that word, "intelligence" means so many things, to so many people, your original post while eloquent, could use some expanding upon if you chose to do so because one word means many things to many people.

I do see where you were coming from, it is a valid point, some will agree with both of us, some will disagree with both of us, that is the nature of mankind though.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ed7cce6a491f.jpg[/atsimg]

Intelligence, can mean braininess, it can mean seeing through veiled innuendos, or it can be the ability to spot a liar from five feet away while watching C-Span and seeing the Congressman of your state "selling and buying pork" on live television.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9b48a17558d4.gif[/atsimg]

My personal perspective is all of the above and so much more, the ability to understand, comprehend, and live through demonstration of policy, procedure, and protocol, however, is the best kind of intelligence that I know and through that intelligence gathering principles, both classified and unclassified, as well as open-source intelligence gathering are things I respect.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/95446f0ffe11.jpg[/atsimg]

After all, to have a "conspiracy theory" to begin with, intelligence has to come into play somehow, does it not?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b270a571015b.jpg[/atsimg]

My meaning here is someone, somewhere, had to know something, then conspire to keep the secret, or even many secrets, keeping intelligence from others, whether they should know, or not, hiding the knowledge that might help to deny ignorance.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/58d1720b8b75.jpg[/atsimg]

After all, "intelligence" only exists where street smarts meet bureaucracy, and when the two clash, is where we as citizens of this planet called Earth have to sort out the real intelligence verse the bloated corpse of Government's.


[edit on 10-1-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


"To me, intelligence, equals life experience, mixed with book learning, and a wee bit of street smarts, but then again, I've lived through quite a lot, take that as arrogant, or not, your choice, but that word, "intelligence" means so many things, to so many people, your original post while eloquent, could use some expanding upon if you chose to do so because one word means many things to many people. " Excellent point......will do so tommorow.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


Well, I for one have flagged your post.

Talk about people thinking they have the right to put others down!!!

This is the main site for that.

And you are very perceptive to see that so soon.

Spelling and punctuation have nothing to do with intelligence.

And if anyone is going to reply to me and say I am dumb, I have a BA major in English and Philosophy. (Well, yay for me, I still have no clue about this planet).

I hate grammar and spelling Nazi's, especially on ATS.. They think because you can't spell or use grammar correctly all the time that you're an idiot with nothing of value to contribute, or that what you're saying is obviously wrong.

I remember making a good point in a thread only to be patronized about my poor grammar usage, not the topic at hand.