Sun Jan 10th: Richard Gage vs. Ron Craig

Originally posted by impressme

Looks like you have an obsession on Gage.

No, actually I have a passion. My passion is critical thinking. I guess you could call it a hobby as well. I laugh not at Gage, but the people that buy his filth. Gage, is quite smart. He was a laid-off Architect and found that he can milk money from people that lack any form of thinking skills.

You have not disproved anything about Gage but, you have proved how good you are at insulting and ridiculing everything Gage has written and said.

Would you like to start a thread? You can title it: "What Gage Gets Wrong" If I feel like it, I will contribute. Gage isn't interested in answering questions. I proved this in Harvard Square back in the Autumn.

I happened to think Gage has put together some very interesting arguments, against your OS fairytale. In fact, he shows how laughable the OS is, and you hate it.

Really? Interesting? I agree! His arguments are interesting. However, they are pretty much all wrong. Interesting does not mean you are correct. Again, why don't you start a thread: "What Gage Gets Right". I'd be interested in seeing what you think he does get correct.

A bleeding hart Liberal,

Yeah right!

Registered Democrat here in BeanTown, Mr. Truther! I won't lose sleep if you don't believe me.

Speaking of that...

TUESDAY JANUARY 19th!! SPECIAL ELECTION ---MARTHA COAKLEY TO FILL THE LATE TED KENNEDY'S SEAT!!

reply to post by ImAPepper

Truthers don't want the truth, they thrive on conspiracies.

Is that better, Einstein?

Truthers = Truth.


OS believers = conspiracies & denial.

Gage is important, only to those that refuse to listen to the answers they are given.

That is false, but you know that.

Richard Gage mopped the floor with Ron Craig.
Ron Craig could not explain why most of the steel beams were blasted 500 feet outward and most were cut in 30 feet sections with molten melted ends on both ends.

I didn’t know this until I was listening to this debate but, NY Times, and CBS did a poll and 28% of Americans and Canadians believe the WTC where brought down by demolition and they are convinced the government has lied to the American people.

It is obvious that Ron Craig is a paid pasty to continue to push the OS lies.
Ron Craig made a complete fool of himself with his presentation, in fact any fifth grader can hear Craig making assumptions without given any real sciences to back his ridiculous claims, it was laughable at best.

The one thing Gage has to back up his proof is the huge amount of Na-no Thermite and Thermate found in the WTC dust, which should NOT been there.
A chemical compound used in our military explosives an unusual high-grade that our military has access to, not the civilian population, and most certainly not Al-Qaida.

We all noticed how Ron Craig avoids the real facts and continue with his fairytales.






[edit on 9-1-2010 by impressme]

reply to post by ImAPepper

No, actually I have a passion. My passion is critical thinking.

Really, then please explain with your “critical thinking” why was a chemical compound of a highly explosive material used in military weapons and explosives found saturated in the WTC dust and ground zero. Not only Professor Jones scientists have found this chemical compound by using SCIENCE but other laboratories have also found the same results.

I will be waiting for your answer to this question.

I laugh not at Gage, but the people that buy his filth.

What filth? You are so hurt, so angry, get over it.

He was a laid-off Architect and found that he can milk money from people that lack any form of thinking skills.

Why was he laid off? I would like to see some proof to your allegation.

Gage isn't interested in answering questions. I proved this in Harvard Square back in the Autumn.

That is not true.

His arguments are interesting. However, they are pretty much all wrong.

No, Gage is pretty much right, you are just “sour grapes ” and you have failed to prove Gage wrong. The only thing you continue to do, is say I proved him wrong but, you never give us anything.

Ridiculing and insulting someone does not prove them wrong, don’t you agree?

Originally posted by impressme

Truthers = Truth.

You think typing in a larger font makes your statement more believable?

Richard Gage mopped the floor with Ron Craig.
Ron Craig could not explain why most of the steel beams were blasted 500 feet outward and most were cut in 30 feet sections with molten melted ends on both ends.

It has been a while since I listened to their original debate. But sweet Jesus, you just typed in rather large font that Truthers = Truth and then you lie.

You are claiming that 30 foot sections were cut with molten metal at both ends? How much research have you done? I refuse to do homework for another truther on things that were proven back in 2006. hint: there are videos of the construction crews cutting the beams during the cleanup

I didn’t know this until I was listening to this debate but, NY Times, and CBS did a poll and 28% of Americans and Canadians believe the WTC where brought down by demolition and they are convinced the government has lied to the American people.

This is another lie. There have been polls done over the past regarding 911. CBS/NY Times did not have a poll that had the results as you state above. You are confabulating, or you are buying the lies from Gage.

It is obvious that Ron Craig is a paid pasty to continue to push the OS lies.

Another lie. You have NO proof of this.
The rest of your post in nothing but your biased opinion. Care to state what Craig got wrong?






[edit on 9-1-2010 by ImAPepper]

Originally posted by ImAPepper
No, actually I have a passion. My passion is critical thinking. I guess you could call it a hobby as well.

You would've been more accurate to say you have a hobby of arguing with people you don't even know on internet forums, and the rest of this argumentative post to which I'm responding is a good example of that. It really is just argumentative, not objective/verified.

I notice a particularly important aspect of this "hobby" of yours happens to be the man Richard Gage. Which do you think is worse: Richard Gage, or the guy who spends most of his time on this online forum mocking Richard Gage ad infinitum? I can't think of a lower way to ride someone's coattails. Constantly attacking the guy is an ad hom as far as 9/11 goes and a complete logical fallacy as far as determining anything that actually happened that day. You should be posting on BTS about this guy if you really want to right a vitriolic book about him, because he really does not have a whole lot to do with 9/11 personally, at least no more than anyone else who has an opinion of what happened that day.

Originally posted by impressme
Really, then please explain with your “critical thinking” why was a chemical compound of a highly explosive material used in military weapons and explosives found saturated in the WTC dust and ground zero. Not only Professor Jones scientists have found this chemical compound by using SCIENCE but other laboratories have also found the same results.

Go back to your original post about TRUTH. You are lying again. Show me the "other laboratories" that have found the same results. Jones et al allegedly found this.

What filth? You are so hurt, so angry, get over it.

Read it again. I am laughing at you! Laughing = happy.

Why was he laid off? I would like to see some proof to your allegation.

Watch his 2 hour DVD! It's in there. He stated it at the presentation I went to. Why don't you ask him? Why don't you write him? I have his personal e-mail address along with his assistants that I have corresponded with.

Will you ask him yourself? U2U me as I will not post it on the thread.

Gage isn't interested in answering questions. I proved this in Harvard Square back in the Autumn.

That is not true.

Were you at his presentation in Harvard Square on that Sunday night this past Fall? No, I didn't think so. Go to his website. You will see that I am mentioned there.

Here I am with Mr. Gage:



Oh, and if you read about me at AE 911 Truth. check and see if they changed the attendance tally. You see, they lied about it and were called on it. They said the would make the correction. (I have pictures of how many people were there)

No, Gage is pretty much right, you are just “sour grapes ” and you have failed to prove Gage wrong. The only thing you continue to do, is say I proved him wrong but, you never give us anything.

I asked you to start a thread. I will be more than happy to join you there.

Ridiculing and insulting someone does not prove them wrong, don’t you agree?

I agree.

Originally posted by bsbray11


You would've been more accurate to say you have a hobby of arguing with people you don't even know on internet forums, and the rest of this argumentative post to which I'm responding is a good example of that. It really is just argumentative, not objective/verified.

You have ZERO idea of who I am or what I do. You remember what they say about opinions Brian?

I notice a particularly important aspect of this "hobby" of yours happens to be the man Richard Gage.

Mr. Gage is an unemployed architect making money off of lies, deceptions, and 1/2 truths. You want to send him a percentage of your paycheck? GO FOR IT!

You know he is now asking you to donate your stocks? Your real-estate?

If you would like to discuss other forms of supporting AE911Truth that are not addressed above (e.g. planned giving, stock, real estate, vehicle donation, airline miles, in-kind, etc) please send an email to AE911Truth Donations or call 510-292-4710.

ae911truth.com

Which do you think is worse: Richard Gage, or the guy who spends most of his time on this online forum mocking Richard Gage ad infinitum?

Hmmmm... A man that travels the world spending others hard earned money telling lies.... or a nameless person showing a few how much of a snake oil salesman he really is. Gee Brian... I don't know.

I can't think of a lower way to ride someone's coattails.

Riding his coattails? Interesting choice of words.

Constantly attacking the guy is an ad hom as far as 9/11 goes and a complete logical fallacy as far as determining anything that actually happened that day.

What he states what happened that day is what I am attacking. Do I slide a ad hom in there from time to time? You bet your a** I do. I call a spade a spade.

You should be posting on BTS about this guy if you really want to right a vitriolic book about him, because he really does not have a whole lot to do with 9/11 personally, at least no more than anyone else who has an opinion of what happened that day.

Did I say he had anything to do with 911? No, sir. This is a 911 conspiracy thread. HE is a 911 Conspiracy Theorists. My opinions of him are based on his lies around 911. VERY appropriate for this forum. If you think they should be moved... you see the little button under my post? Click it! (ALERT)

[edit on 9-1-2010 by ImAPepper]

Originally posted by ImAPepper
You have ZERO idea of who I am or what I do. You remember what they say about opinions Brian?

I know you by what you post here, which gives me a much better idea about you than "ZERO."

I notice a particularly important aspect of this "hobby" of yours happens to be the man Richard Gage.

Mr. Gage is an unemployed architect making money off of lies, deceptions, and 1/2 truths. You want to send him a percentage of your paycheck? GO FOR IT!

You know he is now asking you to donate your stocks? Your real-estate?

Thanks for clarifying my point.

Your obsessive rants on this guy belong on BTS, not the 9/11 forums. They are about Richard Gage, not 9/11.

Which do you think is worse: Richard Gage, or the guy who spends most of his time on this online forum mocking Richard Gage ad infinitum?

Hmmmm... A man that travels the world spending others hard earned money telling lies.... or a nameless person showing a few how much of a snake oil salesman he really is. Gee Brian... I don't know.

You flatter yourself.

What he states what happened that day is what I am attacking.

Care to show a single example of this from this thread? I want specifics, not quotes of "I asked him a question and he didn't answer! I've already proven him wrong a million times! He is a Wrong Man!"

To save you trouble, I already looked through both pages of this thread so far and you haven't said a single damned thing about any specific claim of Gage's; you've only been trash-talking him. For someone whose self-proclaimed "hobby" is "critical thinking," your ratio of actual analysis to trash talk is infinitely low on this thread.

Do I slide a ad hom in there from time to time? You bet your a** I do. I call a spade a spade.

What about calling a logical fallacy a logical fallacy? Ever do that much? Btw what is "ad hom" exactly? A logical argument?

reply to post by ImAPepper

Truthers = Truth.


You think typing in a larger font makes your statement more believable?

My typing skills are not part of this debate, Stay on topic.

Richard Gage mopped the floor with Ron Craig.
Ron Craig could not explain why most of the steel beams were blasted 500 feet outward and most were cut in 30 feet sections with molten melted ends on both ends.

It has been a while since I listened to their original debate. But sweet Jesus, you just typed in rather large font that Truthers = Truth and then you lie.

Again calling me a lair does not sever to your creditability now, does it?
I have told no lie, but you know that don’t you?

You are claiming that 30 foot sections were cut with molten metal at both ends? How much research have you done? I refuse to do homework for another truther on things that were proven back in 2006. hint: there are videos of the construction crews cutting the beams during the cleanup

LOL You want people to believe that clean up crews “cut every steel beam” of all three WTC into 30 foot sections in only a few months when it took YEARS to build all three WTC. Who are you fooling? LOL

I didn’t know this until I was listening to this debate but, NY Times, and CBS did a poll and 28% of Americans and Canadians believe the WTC where brought down by demolition and they are convinced the government has lied to the American people.


This is another lie. There have been polls done over the past regarding 911. CBS/NY Times did not have a poll that had the results as you state above. You are confabulating, or you are buying the lies from Gage.

9/11 Truth Debate: Richard Gage vs. Ron Craig

vodpod.com...

Only 16% of Americans think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and the intelligence prior to the attacks: New York Times/CBS News poll

pakalert.wordpress.com... tacks-new-york-timescbs-news-poll/

WTC7 Exploding (Proof of its demolition)

ahmedismailibrahim.wordpress.com...

Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story

freedomisforeverybody.blogspot.com...

Who’s the lair now!

It is obvious that Ron Craig is a paid pasty to continue to push the OS lies.


Another lie. You have NO proof of this.
The rest of your post in nothing but your biased opinion. Care to state what Craig got wrong?

Yes everything. Just like you I can have an OPINION as well.

Because, I have an opinion it doesn’t mean I am a lair. Perhaps, I should just call you the same.

reply to post by ImAPepper

Originally posted by ImAPepper
Originally posted by impressme
Really, then please explain with your “critical thinking” why was a chemical compound of a highly explosive material used in military weapons and explosives found saturated in the WTC dust and ground zero. Not only Professor Jones scientists have found this chemical compound by using SCIENCE but other laboratories have also found the same results.

Go back to your original post about TRUTH. You are lying again. Show me the "other laboratories" that have found the same results. Jones et al allegedly found this.

As I expected you refuse to answer the question and just insult me by calling me and everyone a lair who does not believe in your fallacies.

What filth? You are so hurt, so angry, get over it.


Read it again. I am laughing at you! Laughing = happy.

Hardly, you display such anger in your post towards me and a continuing of “calling me a lair.”
What happened to just say I disagree with you, instead of the name-calling?

Why was he laid off? I would like to see some proof to your allegation.


Watch his 2 hour DVD! It's in there. He stated it at the presentation I went to. Why don't you ask him? Why don't you write him? I have his personal e-mail address along with his assistants that I have corresponded with.

Will you ask him yourself? U2U me as I will not post it on the thread.

I was right, you couldn’t provide poof for all to see, but you continue to call me out as a lair.

Gage isn't interested in answering questions. I proved this in Harvard Square back in the Autumn.

That is not true.

Were you at his presentation in Harvard Square on that Sunday night this past Fall? No, I didn't think so. Go to his website. You will see that I am mentioned there.

Here I am with Mr. Gage:

You have not proved anything, and we are not “impressed.”

Originally posted by impressme
My typing skills are not part of this debate, Stay on topic.

You felt compelled to place a rather large emphasis on Truthers telling the truth. No? I'm glad you think enlarging your font on a website is a skill.

Again calling me a lair does not sever to your creditability now, does it?
I have told no lie, but you know that don’t you?

You have made statements that are not true.

LOL You want people to believe that clean up crews “cut every steel beam” of all three WTC into 30 foot sections in only a few months when it took YEARS to build all three WTC. Who are you fooling? LOL

Ah...nice try. Re-read my post and show me where I said that. Why are there quotations around that??

The photographs that show the cut beams were due to clean up crews. Most Truthers realize this. I'm not surprised you still have your hands wrapped around this one, however.


YOU stated this:

I didn’t know this until I was listening to this debate but, NY Times, and CBS did a poll and 28% of Americans and Canadians believe the WTC where brought down by demolition and they are convinced the government has lied to the American people.


list of polls.

Who’s the lair now!

Show me the poll from NY TIMES and CBS that stated that 28% of Americans and Canadians believe the WTC was brought down by a controlled demolition.

It is obvious that Ron Craig is a paid pasty to continue to push the OS lies.


Another lie. You have NO proof of this.
The rest of your post in nothing but your biased opinion. Care to state what Craig got wrong?

Yes everything. Just like you I can have an OPINION as well.

Because, I have an opinion it doesn’t mean I am a lair. Perhaps, I should just call you the same.

No, you made an accusation. "It is obvious" is not an opinion.

reply to post by ImAPepper

I am though talking to you, all you are doing is ranting and insulting and twisting the truth around and making fun of people who are serious about this topic. Perhaps when you can be less emotional we can pick up to the beginning of this thread Topic.

You have a nice evening.

Originally posted by impressme

As I expected you refuse to answer the question and just insult me by calling me and everyone a lair who does not believe in your fallacies.

You claimed there was another laboratory that got the same results. WHERE IS IT??? Will you source your claim, or should I just take your word for it.

Hardly, you display such anger in your post towards me and a continuing of “calling me a lair.”
What happened to just say I disagree with you, instead of the name-calling?

There is a difference between someone posting a statement and someone posting false information. I pointed out the lies and or mistakes you have made. You now have a chance to either retract them or provide sources.

I was right, you couldn’t provide poof for all to see, but you continue to call me out as a lair.

Sir, Gage states it on his DVD. WATCH THE VIDEO.

www.ae911truth.net...

He, along with several others got laid off during the construction of a building. I offered you his e-mail address to ask him yourself. As expected, you have yet to U2U me for his address.


Now Impressme.. you have work to do.

1. Show proof that the cut beams at ground zero were done by anything besides cutting torches during the clean up.

2. Provide the additional laboratory that corroborated the finding of Jones & company.

3. Provide a link to CBS NY Times poll that matches the conclusions that you posted above.



[edit on 9-1-2010 by ImAPepper]

Originally posted by impressme

Richard Gage mopped the floor with Ron Craig.

Richard Gage in his original debate with Mr. Craig, yeah... he wiped the floor with him.

reply to post by ImAPepper


I could have handled that interview better than Gage did with a couple of those arguments. Firstly there were recordings of explosions, and there are tons of related eyewitness testimonies, from firefighters, police, and civilians. The majority of people who are ignorant of this fact simply dismiss it out of hand.

If you want to make this an issue about Richard Gage, fine, but it still has nothing to do about 9/11. If you want to make the issue 9/11, and not Richard Gage, we can hammer out these same questions between ourselves and it would be more relevant to our discussion than what Gage thinks.

Originally posted by bsbray11

I could have handled that interview better than Gage did with a couple of those arguments.

Gage actually debated this gentleman before. This wasn't an interview it was from their previous debate.**

(edit) **This isn't the original debate...my bad.

If you want to make this an issue about Richard Gage, fine, but it still has nothing to do about 9/11.

The title of the thread is: "Sun Jan 10th: Richard Gage vs. Ron Craig"
It's about an upcoming debate (today) concerning the collapses of the WTC buildings. I think it would be appropriate to not have this thread morph into another Collapse vs. CD debate. After tonight's debate, why don't we reconvene here to discuss how the contestants performed. If, Brian you are not interested in discussing their debate, the would be your prerogative.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by ImAPepper]

it will be interesting to see how this thread twists and turns after the debate this evening. I'll be tuning in for sure.

Originally posted by bsbray11
If these are your kinds of "facts" then it's no wonder we have such a hard time with you here, calling things we post lies when they are based on actual witness testimonies and then saying totally baseless crap like this.

It is not impossible to bring things into occupied buildings. Case in point: the Murrah Federal building. Look up "Oklahoma City bombs affadavit" and see what comes back. There are actual memos from different government agencies (FEMA, DoD, etc.) and also civilian testimonies of a 2nd and 3rd unexploded bombs removed from that building after the bombing. Again, not some twisted/warped "lie" like you would probably automatically claim out of psychological defense but actually documented by the government.

There, you see? THis is EXACTLY why I continue to say why these damned fool conspiracy web sites are lyign through their teeth. I never said it's impossible to bring explosives into buildings. Terrorists brought a truck of explosives into the WTC back in 1993, so I can grant the possibility of someone being able to sneak small scale explosives in again. I said it was impossible to rig CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS without being seen, which is a whole other level above simply planting explosives.

To get a building to fall straight down, CD have to destroy multiple critical structural support systems with critical timing, and to make sure they are destroyed they "pre-destroy" non-critical supports by cutting them so they can't affect the way the structure collapsed, as well as partially cutting the critical supports so that the explosives can break the remainign steel. All these supports have to be broken sumiltaneously so miles of control wires need to be strung between the supports and to the staging area. Claiming that some mysterious entity can sneak in, perform all thiis work, and then sneak out, IN TWO GIGANTIC BUILDINGS, which WERE HEAVILY OCCUPIED, and WITHOUT BEING NOTICED BY *ANYONE*, is just plain intellectually bankrupt. It's like claiming a stampede of cattle can run through your living room and you'd never notice it. Yeah, you truthers are coming up with all this "super thermite" and "explosions in the basement" bit to explain it, but all you're doing is building up a scenario which *doesn't* explain how what we all saw happened. For one thing, how the heck would explosives in the basement cause the towers to start collapsingl up where the planes hit the buildings?

I'm sorry, but your conspriacy stories require too much make believe and too much suspension of reality to be able to take seriously. If you don't even know how controlled demolitions work then you have no business pushing these controlled demoliitons in the WTC stories in the first place.

Now all you have to do is figure out how someone smuggled two military bombs into an occupied federal building and you will have an idea how someone could also do it in the towers.

I am intellectual honest, so I did look this claim of "unexploded bombs at the Murrah building" up, and what do I see? ZERO mention of it in any news publication, and THOUSANDS of mentions in all these damned fool conspiracy web sites, many of them repeating each other almost word for word. It's blatantly obvious someone put out an unsubstanciated report that was later retracted, but these conspiracy web sites ignored the retraction and continued to run with becuase they WANT these conspiracies to be true. Those "Loose Change" con artists pulled that exact same stunt when they attempted to claim flight 93 actually landed in Ohio.

And you actually take umbrage when I mention how these web sites are stirring up false public unrest and getting people all paranoid over shadows? Jeez, dude, wake up.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Yeah, how those demo guys snuck by the watchdog cleaning lady and cafeteria cook to allegedly wire the explosives is beyond me. I'm sure every employee in that building had advanced training to spot demo rigging.

So in other words, the WTC was the only skyscraper on the face of the planet that DIDN'T have any maintenance department. They never had any inspectors going around checking for metal fatigue or water seepage, they had no electricians checking for electrical shorts or fire hazards, they had no technicians who maintained the elevators and elevator shafts, they had no plumbers maintaining the building's water pipes and water supply, they had no security checking IDs for crooks sneaking in to rip off computers and money out of purses, they had no shipping department watching who was coming into and out of the back doors, they had no custodians who cleaned the place and vacuumed the carpets during the off hours, they had none of that. All they had were "a cleaning lady and a cafeteria cook", and a 500 member marching band could march up and down the building with blaring tubas, baton twirling majorettes and Shriner clown cars without even a mouse twitching its whiskers.

Good grief, no wonder why you people are actually taking these "secret controlled demolitions" stories seriously, if THIS is how you think how skyscrapers in the real world are maintained. These damned fool conspiracy web sites you're getting this rubish from really are mind raping people, and badly.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Dave , my memory is old, so help me out.

Who ran the security for the WTC buildings.

I'll give you a hint, He showed up at the White House for Family meals.



[edit on 10-1-2010 by Sean48]