It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by sezsue
135,000 to 140,000 Source: This is an estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross.
Originally posted by dereks
Originally posted by sezsue
135,000 to 140,000 Source: This is an estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross.
If you had bothered to read this thread you would have already seen
"the Red Cross said "As well as in personal correspondence, the ICRC has also addressed this misrepresentation by several other means. In 1975, the ICRC wrote to the Board of Deputies of British Jews in London regarding Harwood's citations, stating:
The figures cited by the author of the booklet are based upon statistics falsely attributed to us, evidently for the purpose of giving them credibility, despite the fact that we never publish information of this kind."
—Françoise Perret , Comité International de la Croix-Rouge, to Jacob Gerwitz, August 22, 1975. "
The estimate of 135,500 is roughly corroborated by the "Auschwitz death books." The death books themselves are wartime German camp records, which were captured by the Soviets towards the end of the war, and hidden in Soviet achieves, until released to the Red Cross in 1989.
The death books consist of 46 volumes which document each death at Auschwitz (each death certificate consists of the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician). The records for the most important years, 1942 and 1943, are almost complete (there are also a few volumes for the year 1941, but none for the year 1944 or January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated)).
The Auschwitz death books contain the death certificates of some 69,000 individuals, of whom about 30,000 were listed as Jews. You may view various entries in the Auschwitz Death Books by clicking on the following links to the Auschwitz museum:
Using all available wartime records from the various camps it has been estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in the German concentration camp system (from all causes).
Originally posted by Plomp
I was under the impression that the victims were processed by adding machines? I always thought the 6 million figure was indisputable as there are records.
Where are these records, were they destroyed or are they available?
Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by queenannie38
Please
Explain this to me
Thanks
After five minutes Hertzl interrupted Rothschild, who was not used to such bluntness. "You don't know what it is all about. Let me explain it to you first. A colony is a small state; a state is a big colony. You want a small state; I want to build a big colony."
Once more, as so many times in the past, he unfolded his plan for consolidating the Turkish national debt in return for a Jewish vassal state in Palestine. He told Rothschild he did not have to make up his mind immediately. He asked only for Rothschild's conditional agreement. Only in the case of success would Rothschild be asked to place himself at the head of the movement, at which time he, Hertzl, would voluntarily withdraw. If it proved impossible to conclude a transaction with the Turks, there would be no movement and no need for his leadership and support.
Rothschild listened attentively, at times with surprise. Occasionally Hertzl thought he even detected admiration in the Baron's eyes. But he was wrong. Rothschild quickly made clear that he wanted nothing to do with the project. His reasoning was simple; it echoed an astute world wise banker's practical concerns, not a naive politicians vision. "It would be impossible to control the influx of the masses into Palestine," he said. "The first to arrive would be a hundred fifty thousand schnorrers (beggars). They would have to be fed, presumably by me. I don't feel up to that-but perhaps you do!" he added sarcastically.
A battle of words ensued for about two hours. But Rothschild was not convinced of the feasibility of Hertzl's plan of action. Twice he repeated a proverb: Il ne faut pas avoir les yeux plus gros que le ventre (It does not do to have eyes bigger than one's stomach). When Rothschild said that there would be no curbing of the masses, one aide said darkly, "Yes, just what happened at Chodinko," referring to a plain outside Moscow where a frightened mass of Jewish refugees from a czarist pogrom had recently suffered great hardship.
"You were the keystone of the entire combination," Hertzl said bitterly as he turned to leave. "If you refuse, everything I have fashioned so far will collapse. I shall then be obliged to do it in a different way. I shall start a mass agitation. "And," he threatened, "that way it will be even harder to keep the masses under control. I was going to turn the direction of the entire project over to you... You think it would be a disaster to operate with such great masses. Consider whether the misfortune would not be greater if your refusal forces me to set the masses in motion by uncontrollable agitation."
As necessity is the mother of invention, was it possible that these very words, uttered by Hertzl, gave birth to the necessity of the Holocaust in the mind of Baron Edmond de Rothschild on that innocent Paris summer day? Did the plan continue to unfold amidst the ensuing incessant correspondence that occurred between the Rothschild cousins on a daily basis?
On February 14, 1910, Churchill, the "young man in a hurry", was appointed home secretary. He was merely thirty-five. Among his responsibilities were national security, England's police force, law and order, and immigration.
In 1911, after the Agadir incident he would become First Lord of the Admiralty, where he would commit the Royal Navy to oil. Ten years later diplomats from Whitehall would quietly divide up the Middle East in a muffled version of their nineteenth-century scramble for African possessions. France would get Syria and Lebanon; Persia (Iran) would come under "British protection"; and Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Palestine came within Britain's sphere of influence, providing the Empire with a direct overland route between imperial troops in Egypt and the oil rich Persian Gulf region.
With the oil regions secured, the next task was insuring that it would remain that way. Under the guise of a Jewish homeland, the British would establish a military-oriented security state loyal to the West. This colony would be the keystone of the entire Middle East security system. The very survival of this colony, however, was potentially threatened by the uncontrolled influx of massive European Jewish immigration into the region. Such ethnic calamity would threaten the entire Middle East energy supply. Only by eliminating the reservoir of potential immigrants could the integrity of the colony be preserved. Once a pre-determined immigration quota was satisfied, strict laws would be put into place sealing any further admission into the small land. Once these laws were in place, a great operation would be put into motion to exterminate the remaining potential immigrants. This operation would be known as the Holocaust.
Late in 1920, Churchill told Lloyd George that he wanted to move to another cabinet post. On February 14, 1921, Churchill was appointed Colonial Secretary. When he took over the Colonial Office, the Balfour declaration was part of his legacy. The declaration, promulgated in 1917 when Arthur Balfour was foreign secretary, was actually formulated by the Rothschilds for the Rothschilds. The text was prepared by Leo Amery, assistant secretary to the War Cabinet. Amery worked under the Rothschild frontman, Lord Milner, who was a member of the inner War Cabinet. The declaration was addressed to Natty Rothschild's son, Walter. It proclaimed that the British government favored "the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of that object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."
Winston Churchill's commitment to the Rothschild-sponsored Jewish state in Palestine was "absolute". He understood the security role it would play in the emerging oil region. As Colonial secretary he was in a position to oversee the most important aspect to the project- immigration. The problem would be more complicated than controlling the pace and numbers of people entering the colony. Quality immigrants would be a crucial concern, hence strict discrimination, would be a guiding force in the immigration process.
On May 31, 1921, Churchill reported to the cabinet of Arab complaints and the "current accounts of the inferior quality of recent Jewish immigrants." More than anything else it was the "quality" issue surrounding Jewish immigration into Palestine that would determine the necessity of the Holocaust. Those concerned with the success of the colonization process could stem the tides, but they couldn't change the masses of negative human material confronting them.
Within the Jewish community, the two groups which gave the Rothschilds most concern, according to Ferguson, were nouveaux riches -Jewish bankers and businessmen who had made their fortune more recently than the Rothschilds-and, perhaps more important, Ostjuden: the much more numerous Jews of Eastern Europe (principally though not exclusively from the Russian empire), 2.5 million of whom migrated westwards after the pogroms sparked off by the assassination of Alexander II in 1881 and the new discriminatory laws introduced the following year. The new poor were at least as great a source of embarrassment as the nouveaux riches. Forwarding a letter on the subject of German anti-Semitism, Natty told Disraeli in 1880 regarding the causes of Jewish persecution:
"There are also a great many other reasons…among them the constant influx of Polish Russian and Roumanian Jews who arrive in a state of starvation and are socialists until they become rich."
According to this revealing statement we can see that poor Jews, rich Jews, and all the Jews in between were a source of concern to the Rothschilds. As socialism would be the tool by which the super rich would control the masses, Jews active in independent socialism, would be obstacles to this scheme. In short, the elimination of the European Jewish community was necessary for a variety of reasons.
During the debate of the Alien Act of 1905, Natty Rothschild argued that such legislation "would certainly affect deserving and hard-working men, whose impecunious position on their arrival would be no criterion of their incapacity to attain independence." His son Walter echoed this view." Great Britain," he argued, "should be the refuge for the oppressed and unjustly ill-treated people of other nations so long as they were decent and hard-working."
The Rothschilds could not lend their sympathy to those immigrants who were not "deserving, decent or hard-working". The undeserving, indecent, and lazy people would be obstacles to all future Rothschild schemes. Whether it was the establishment of a Jewish military colony in Palestine, or the United States of Europe, there was no room for masses of miserably poor, unproductive "useless eaters", with strange customs and behavior designed to separate, not assimilate. The elimination of the Jews of Europe was essential to the success of the New World Order. The Rothschildian operation known today as the Holocaust, would be carried out from the top down with utter stealth, employing all of the experience, agencies and connections at the disposal of the vast banking empire. Employing the talents and efforts of frontmen like Churchill, Hitler, Pacelli (Pius XII), Roosevelt and Stalin, these feigned axis-allied-neutral camps, would all be invisibly linked
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It is true that IBM developed some of the first primitive computing systems to ever be used for the Nazi Regime to catalog and account for its slave labor population but many of those records remain in place in archives and in places like Auschwitz were Zionists and the Catholic Church still fight for a pecking order to control them.
The Soviets actually were the first on the scene in the capitol and carried a lot of things off back to Moscow to use in their own cold war propaganda efforts and still posses many of them. The Cold War Rule was that much of what the Soviets were reporting was to be discounted as exaggerated and aimed towards governing the East German Communist State.
To actually do a real accounting one would have to travel throughout Europe and Russia to try to track down all the places the various records ended up and wrestle with Jewish and Catholic organizations as well as governments.
As the thread has displayed, the six million figure is a guesstimate of the Jews in Europe that started appearing in the Propaganda in America back in the 1920’s and in large part was all part of a drive to get Jews to emigrate to Palestine and to fund Zionist groups in Palestine.
www.cleveland.com...
Less known is the "Holocaust by Bullets," in which over 2 million Jews were gunned down in towns and villages across Ukraine, Belarus and Russia. Their part in the Nazis' Final Solution has been under-researched, their bodies left unidentified in unmarked mass graves.
Begun after Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, the slaughter by bullets was the opening phase of what became the Nazis' Final Solution with its factories of death operating in Auschwitz and other camps, all in Nazi-occupied Poland.
women, children and elders were marched or carted in from neighboring towns to be shot, burned to death or buried alive by German troops, Romanian forces, squads of local Ukrainian collaborators and local ethnic German volunteers.
Even then, it was methodical, Desbois' research shows. First, Germans would arrive in a town or village and gather intelligence on how best to transport the victims to extermination sites, where to execute them and how to dispose of their bodies.
"It was done as systematically as it was done elsewhere," said John Paul Himka, an expert on the Holocaust and Ukraine at the University of Alberta in Canada, who is not connected to Desbois' work. "You can read as they're figuring out best way to do this, the best way to shoot ... it's absolutely systematic, no accident here."
Desbois' interviews and grave-hunting tie in to millions of pages of Soviet archives.
Originally posted by Dock9
... the rest being 'history', lol
The number 6 million is an estimate based cumulatively on numerous indpendent sources, Nazi documents, occupied country governments, consistent accounts, trial testimonies, etc.
Were there to be no surviving records of Concentration Camp extermination and only guesswork the number would not change, possibly be higher.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yep my friend just what I said too a guesstimate! Except I didn't use any coined buzzwords or emotional sensationalism in saying it, isn’t it funny how two people can be saying entirely the same thing but using entirely different methods to illustrate entirely different points.
Proto-Facts and nothing but the facts.
Mmichael-emotion and indignation and nothing but hyperbole
Proto-I think we are making some progress and getting closer to the truth of these things
Mmichael-(From the Mummy Movie) YOUUUU MUST NOT REEEAD FROM THE BOOOOOK!
You know Michael business has been improving and I have a little extra money to invest, is it Maalox, Pepto-Bismol or Alka-Seltzer that keeps you going?
Help a brother out would you?
It insults anyone with any real understanding of history and human affairs. It reflects badly on the source. It raises real questions of how people can become so twisted.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The sad thing is with one trick pony’s is while they are really entertaining for kids, once you have seen the show a couple of times they cease being entertaining.
After a while that pony just becomes a liability, it eats, it evacuates, it eats and it evacuates some more, and if you don’t have a use for that manure well, you just don’t really need that pony at all, it really is time for the pony to learn some new tricks Michael, I think you know what I mean.
Love you! Mean it!