Man, Monkey or Both?

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by The Blind Eye

 

We are apes. Sheesh.

No... you are a 'monkey's uncle' ... i am an ape, therefore i am superior to you... so prepare to be schooled for inferior breed of primate ...lol

Despite this dispute over labels/taxonomy, my point/challenge still stands... which relates in kin with this anal issue over names ... and prompts the deeper question of why we insist on distancing ourselves from a fact that is hard for most of us to accept.

Swedish botanist, physician, and zoologist, Linnaeus's inclusion of humans in the primates with monkeys and apes was troubling for people who denied a close relationship between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom. Linnaeus's Lutheran Archbishop had accused him of "impiety." In a letter to Johann Georg Gmelin dated 25 February 1747, Linnaeus wrote:

It is not pleasing to me that I must place humans among the primates, but man is intimately familiar with himself. Let's not quibble over words. It will be the same to me whatever name is applied. But I desperately seek from you and from the whole world a general difference between men and simians from the principles of Natural History. I certainly know of none. If only someone might tell me one! If I called man a simian or vice versa I would bring together all the theologians against me. Perhaps I ought to, in accordance with the law of Natural History.

source: linnaeus.c18.net...

[edit on 9-3-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Last year I spent some time in a hammock deep in the jungles of Borneo, Indonesia. Every morning a troop of Proboscis monkeys would cross through my camp, overhead in the treetops. They would play, forage, fight a little, and scamper through the treetops in a morning monkey show each day as the sun rose. It was my personal morning wild kingdom show to start off my day.

I would then head off to work in the Orangutan Care and Quarantine Center in Pasir Pajang. The Indonesian Rainforest is disappearing faster than any other forrest in the world. It is home to the Orangutan, and in the last decade they have lost half of their population. Palm Oil plantations are the worst culprit for the destruction of the rainforest and for killing wild orangutans. Proctor and Gamble is one of the largest customers.

From working with orphaned wild orangutans I can tell you for certain that they are quite intelligent. Just as smart as a six year old human, in many ways even smarter. They have memory of their past. They make and use tools and are quite clever figuring things out. They are extremely powerful, eight times stronger than we are, but have a quite gentle nature. They communicate with each other in meaningful ways. They use jungle medicine when they get sick. We have learned quite a bit watching them and then studying the plants they use, and now Pharmaceutical companies make medicines based on those findings. There is one older Female in the nearby National Park who as a child was taught sign language. She still knows it years later despite living on her own in the wild for many years.

I am going back to Indonesia this year to again work with our cousins the Great Red Ape. Gibbons, the lesser ape, also live in the National Park.

You can learn more about the great red ape and Dr Birute Galdikas who has been researching them since the 70's, and what you can do to help prevent them from becomming extinct here: Oranutan Foundation International

Want to learn about our evolutionary connection to Orangutans, Gorillas, and Chimpanzees? Read The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris. Thats us, the naked ape, as we have no fur, but are apes none the less. Our human behavior is proof alone as it evolved right along with us.

reply to post by Terapin


Thanks Terapin for sharing, it helps to have input from someone with a hands-on account of our connection/ancestry... and kudos on your work there, sounds like a very rewarding experience, as heart breaking as it may be at times.

Speaking of Orangutans... i came across this picture:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f6153a1b9c82.jpg[/atsimg]

... and something about the expression on their faces reminded me of down's syndrome. Would be interesting to see if any intelligence tests have been used in comparison.

For your consideration....

www.msnbc.msn.com...

with video
mysterytopia.com...

another

en.wikipedia.org...(chimpanzee)

... and something about the expression on their faces reminded me of down's syndrome. Would be interesting to see if any intelligence tests have been used in comparison.

First Impression, OFFENSIVE! Please explain.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

reply to post by The Blind Eye


That is disgusting. What's up with you? They look like they have Down's syndrome? Jesus.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by davesidious]

Boy you guys are melodramatic... offensive to who... the Orangutans? lol

I thought the whole idea of ATS was to look at everything, especially all data, facts, suspicions and observations that we are told not to... out of censorship. peer pressure and lies.

I suppose this would be 'offensive' to those who don't believe we are primates... but note if you have been paying attention... i believe we are primates... so keep that in mind when you are so quick to judge me.

Could it be that down's syndrome is nothing more then a recessive gene? Mind you... i ask this within the context/inclusion of all primates being a part of our family... and yes i am fully aware of the species dividing lines... but let's think outside of the box(s) we have created for ourselves... for just a moment.

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Because you are making baseless comparisons between Orangutans and people with Down's syndrome, from one photo. If you can't see how that's offensive, then there's not much hope for you.

actually to be technical its more like alien(god) + monkey = man

reply to post by metalholic


If by "technical" you mean "conjectural", then yes, you are right.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by The Blind Eye

 

Because you are making baseless comparisons between Orangutans and people with Down's syndrome, from one photo. If you can't see how that's offensive, then there's not much hope for you.

"baseless" ...on the contrary... if my suspicions/hypothesis is true... this would be further evidence that we are primates/apes/monkeys. Perhaps there is some link farther back in our ancestry. As downs syndrome can occur without any known reason perhaps we are all carriers of this gene and every so often there are throwbacks?

"from one photo" This photo has prompted me comparing many photos i have seen... and the similarities consistently show up.

"offensive" This is not my intent, and again i have made this clear... so if you continue to be offended, then you are going out of your way to find fault.

There is a point to this thread, but you seem to be bent on missing the point, over and over again... with your shallow critiques.

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Down's syndrome is caused by an extra chromosome (or part thereof), namely the 21st chromosome.

We have more than enough evidence of mankind being an Ape.

reply to post by davesidious


and more then enough to say we are alien..so therefore it is as it is written an alien species combined its dna with the most intelligent animal walking earth at the time which was an ape like creature then came man!

[edit on 13-3-2010 by metalholic]

reply to post by metalholic


No. That is conjecture. Please show us this extraterrestrial DNA.

reply to post by davesidious


well since 98% of it cant be indentified by experts that should say somethin! obviously we have something within us that even the best of scholars havent an idea of what it is for!

and since ancient man took pride in recording its history and major events throughout its existence why would man in europeon and egyptian and american societies all have historical events,language simularities,similar gods with names meaning the same and none of it be true these people cared just as much about making sure they had there history recorded as the movement of the stars

so i think i'll side with ancient man gods are aliens who want a metal that is basically uselss! for survival

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by davesidious

 

well since 98% of it cant be indentified by experts that should say somethin! obviously we have something within us that even the best of scholars havent an idea of what it is for!

What is this ... "somethin!" you are referring to?

reply to post by The Blind Eye


that something is exactly that we know its there but dont know what it is we know its apart of our makeup but thats as far as it goes!

we both know time machines dont exist but what are the chances that thoth or any of the so called gods of either the egyptians or sumerians would know what its for?

reply to post by davesidious


Now keeping my previous proposal in mind, that down syndrome may be evidence of a missing-link in our shared hereditary and your irrational knee-jerk reaction to this worthwhile inquiry... please hand the following with more respect to the objective of this thread:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5b623a195c46.jpg[/atsimg]

for high rez close up (click here)

"An ape-like girl in the eastern state of Orissa in India has generated a lot of interest among the medical fraternity. The 13-year-old tribal girl, Rebati Kahanr, suffers from gingival enlargement (swelling of the gums) and hypertrichosis (abnormal growth of hair across body and face) that have given her a peculiar look.

Doctors of the Department of Periodontics at the Dental Wing of the SCB Medical College and Hospital are now set to conduct a ge netic analysis to find out the sequences that have given the girl from Khalisahi village in Boudh district such an appearance.

Apparently, her father suffered from a milder form of gingival enlargement (up to 20 per cent) while her brother, who passed away a couple of years back, suffered from the same condition as Rebati.

The research would be conducted under the guidance of Indian Coun- cil of Medical Research (ICMR) and in collaboration with the Institute of Immunology, Mumbai. "

Source: epaper.newindpress.com...

[edit on 13-3-2010 by The Blind Eye]

reply to post by The Blind Eye


No, Down's syndrome is not evidence of a missing link.

We already have perfectly enough evidence to categorically demonstrate, without any dissent, that man is an ape, evolved from the same ancestors as the other great apes.

This discussion is pointless. I don't know what you are trying to achieve, or how scouring the internet for strange-looking people will prove anything.

reply to post by davesidious


You must think this thread is a conversation between just you and me... here's another 'something' for those who think we came from aliens/god