Man, Monkey or Both?

Originally posted by The Blind Eye
reply to post by 100Grand

 

Ok so you refuse to acknowledge the contradictions, much like you refuse to see that we are apes.

So maybe you could answer this one question directly...
Without jesus, we'd all be amoral bastards?
Yes or No? ...and if you choose, provide some elaboration on why.

Do you mean immoral?
It's not like I'm not acknowledging the contradictions, I just don't think they hold much weight.
Lets look at this for instance, 5. How should we pray?

* Only pray the Lord's prayer, for God already knows what you need. (Matthew 6:7-13)
* Pray for whatever you want: "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." (John 14:14); "If you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name." (John 16:23)

You are missing the point here. If you have faith in Jesus, you will do as he did, like he said, and you pray for things IN HIS NAME, and if these things LET the son (Jesus) bring GLORY to GOD's name, then he will do it.

Like I said, these have been taken out of context. It does help to read not just the one liner you think is contradicting, but maybe a few versus before and after.

Most people do not have faith in Jesus, and pray for things they WANT, not what they need. God will ALWAYS provide for the things you need. People these days think they need hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to be happy. Or they need a bigger house or a 2nd or even 3rd car. I used ot think that money would buy me happiness, of course I was wrong. After I put my faith in Jesus I haven't been worried about anything. I know that God will guide me in the right direction if I ask, and he will provide for me the essentials.

reply to post by 100Grand


Amazingly, the absolute closest I come to religiosity is maintaining a respect for the spirits of my ancestors and the gods they worshiped. More of a superstition on my part than an actual form or worship, tell you the truth. I regard Christianity - and Islam and Judaism - to be utterly evil. I pay no respect to their purloined dead god, I don't buy into their manic-depressive sky-god, and I don't buy into the assorted ramblings of their prophets.

Yet I manage to leave a comfortable and fulfilling life, am healthy, maintain many friendships, and am certainly a moral person. I expect that when I finally keel over (I'm aiming to hit 120!) I'm probably not going to spend an eternity worshiping at your god's feet, and for some reason, this notion doesn't particularly bother me.

Now that A successful, happy, and healthy heathen has just spoiled your thesis, any chance of getting back to how ignorant you are about biology?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


and what was my thesis exactly?

Originally posted by The Blind Eye

 

Without jesus, we'd all be amoral bastards?
Yes or No? ...and if you choose, provide some elaboration on why.

Originally posted by 100Grand
Do you mean immoral?

No i mean 'amoral' but if you'd like to comment on 'immoral' as well,
then please by all means go right ahead.

As for the contradictions, you can cherry pick the ones you can find a way to tap dance around, as for those you can't, by hopscotching over you have confirmed that your book in nothing more then fairy tiles.

Now back to the question you seem to be delaying/avoiding...
Without jesus, we'd all be amoral/immoral bastards?

[edit on 31-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Well, I can't imagine a world with out Jesus, but I don't think that(what you are saying) necessarily.

familybc.org
"
Satan

We believe in the existence of Satan, the Christian’s adversary – “the god of this world”, author of all the powers of darkness and sin, who is destined to the judgment of an eternal justice in the lake of fire. (Matthew 4:1-3; II Corinthians4:4; II Thessalonians 2:9; Revelation 20:10)

Man

We believe that man was created in the image of God but, through his own choice, fell at the temptation of Satan, thus separating himself and the rest of the human race from God. Every person is born into this world with a sinful nature and is spiritually dead. Man can only obtain spiritual life and salvation through the Redeemer, Jesus Christ. (Genesis 1:26; 3:1-6; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:23; John 3:16;14:6; Acts 16:31)
"

I honestly believe, if there were no God, we wouldn't be here to begin with, and if by chance we were, I can't imagine what we would be like.

BTW, I'm not "hopscotching" around these contradictions. Obviously I don't know everything, but I am arguing against some of those contradictions, but I guess if you REALLY want me to spend my time going through every single one and pointing out why they aren't valid, then I will try.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by 100Grand]

Originally posted by 100Grand
I honestly believe, if there were no God, we wouldn't be here to begin with, and if by chance we were, I can't imagine what we would be like.

Wouldn't we be like monkeys?

BTW, I'm not "hopscotching" around these contradictions. Obviously I don't know everything, but I am arguing against some of those contradictions, but I guess if you REALLY want me to spend my time going through every single one and pointing out why they aren't valid, then I will try.

Ok at least you can admit that you haven't thoroughly researched all the contradictions, all i am saying is if you did, your faith would be challenged, but then that might just be the reason why you don't... for fear that you might loose faith?

Note: two questions above await your answer.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

No I don't think that we ALL are immoral/amoral bastards.
I have a friend from India who doesn't believe in any type of higher power, and he is one of the nicest guys I've met.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the newest video on
www.hallindsey.com... the video released on 1/29

reply to post by 100Grand

lol... omg... this is one very scary ape, a perfect example of a fundaMENTAList. I'd like to move any discussion of Lindsey and the like over to here, so we can maintain some focus on the significance of acknowledging our connection to apes in this thread.

In an effort to do so, i'd like to make note of a common mis-perception, that what separates us from the apes is our conscience... here's a very revealing study that came out a year ago, that proves otherwise:

Monkeys and apes have a sense of morality and the rudimentary ability to tell right from wrong, according to new research.

In a series of studies scientists have found that monkeys and apes can make judgments about fairness, offer altruistic help and empathize when a fellow animal is ill or in difficulties. They even appear to have consciences and the ability to remember obligations.

The research implies that morality is not a uniquely human quality and suggests it arose through evolution.

source: www.timesonline.co.uk...

[edit on 3-2-2010 by The Blind Eye]

reply to post by The Blind Eye


That's a good observation, yet I have seen similar behaviors in other animals, and also other behaviors that we humans have.

My neighbor had a pretty old dog who eventually went blind in both eyes. They also had a cat who clearly was having a good time "mocking the dog" because he knew the dog was blind.

Back to your example, I've seen and heard of stories where animals would nurture a wounded "friend." I think there are a lot of animals who share similar behavior as us.

reply to post by 100Grand

So is it safe to say that another link has been confirmed? How is it that we can be so similar and yet not be of the same family tree? I think a lot can be said for the ego in this. Our desire to feel special or superior, cuts us off from our roots, giving ourselves permission to exploit other animals for our own personal gain... and in many cases through out our history, the permission to exploit one another for personal gain... all by the means of categorizing our fellow man as being 'savages', in turn stripping them of all human rights i.e. native american indian, black slaves, austrialian aborigines and in kin the current palestinian peoples.

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Not really, I think it shows that just because we see evidence pointing towards one thing doesn't necessarily make it true.

reply to post by 100Grand


No, but it makes it far more likely than anything else. That's how science works.

reply to post by davesidious


Not in my opinion. The study of science has brought me closer to God. I have been researching Bible Prophecy for a couple of months now, and I have found that more than 1/3 of the scripture is prophetic, over half of that has come to pass up to now, with 100% detail, and the way things are happening in the world right now, it would seem that the rest is coming together almost perfectly as well. To me, that makes the most sense.

reply to post by 100Grand


Luckily for the progress of human kind your opinion means squat. I find it strange that you are conducting this discussion over the internet, which absolutely required the scientific method to occur. And you use it to say how, actually, it's not the best way to learn. Weird.

It's easy to fit events to prophecy with hindsight. No one has ever managed to use the bible to predict events that have not happened. That's called "hindsight bias", and is rife in bible prophecy "scholars". If you cared more about being right, as opposed to feeling good, you'd be able to admit that to yourself.

reply to post by davesidious


Back in early December I had a feeling that Israel would hit a "gold mine." By that I mean oil. the bible said that Israel would be blessed with it, and what happened late December? They hit it big. (Of course like you said this means nothing)

I am in no way saying science is wrong, please show me where I said that. The science behind the internet has NOTHING to do with evolution. I am a computer Science major, I think I would know. You can believe what ever you want, but I guarantee before the next 5, 6 or 7 years, you will throw out evolution, just like I had a couple months ago.

reply to post by 100Grand


Of course the science behind the theory of evolution has everything to do with the science behind the internet. The very same methodology was used to create both - observations, hypotheses, experimentation, documentation. It's the exact same thing. Your lack of knowledge of the scientific method is very strange at all. What kind of crazy school did you go to? Did they not bother to teach you what the method is about?

I hope you don't take medicine, as that is created using the exact same scientific method. Unless you want to be a hypocrite, that is...

Gold does not equal oil, so your prophecy is, as you said, rubbish. You are looking for hits, and stretching interpretations to fit, then accepting the hits as if you did nothing to make them work.

You clearly didn't throw out evolution due to evidence, but because of some irrational religious belief. The decades of evidence for evolution is rock-solid, and provides better prophecy than any bronze-age farmer's manual, the bible included. It can actually be used to predict, and to predict accurately. Good luck doing that with your book!

reply to post by davesidious


I used quotes "gold mine" .... it actually used the word oil in the bible
wow, learn to read..keep trying to make me sound like an idiot

reply to post by 100Grand


Maybe you should learn how to write less ambiguously, then.

Even so, that "prophecy" could not be used to predict anything. It's pointless. It's baseless ass-delving by believers trying desperately to prove their beloved book isn't just a group of stories and allegory collated into a self-contradictory anthology.

There has never, ever, been any accurate prediction made based on contents of the bible, rendering it useless as "prophecy".

*** ATTENTION ***

Remain on topic without discussing each other and being uncivil.

Thank You

Another convincing/accurate angle from which to view our ancestry;
if it were possible for us to mate with the apes...
try to image what the offspring might look like,
then see (no peeking) if the following model comes close to what you had envisioned:

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2dada8a3aaa6.jpg[/atsimg]

Scientific reproduction of Australopithecus Afarensis – “Lucy“, age 3.5 million years. Height 110 cm. This reproduction is based on skeletal remains found in Hadar, Ethiopia, discovered in 1974. This scientific reproduction illustrates, based on relatively large volume of skeletal finds, the size and appearance of one of the oldest hominids discovered so far. The scientific reproduction was carried out under the expert guidance and supervision of prof. RNDr. Zbynek Šmahel CSc. Finish: epoxy resin

source: jelinek-art.cz...

[edit on 6-2-2010 by The Blind Eye]