Riddle me this, Christians..

Yep, here is what most "Christians" will tell you.

People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism.

Okay??????

Originally posted by Parallex

Lot's of people haven't heard of 'religion' or any type of God; because they are too busy having a life full of joy, happiness, wonder and excitement.

Please show me who these people are, And I will show you poor ,uneducated, third world nation individuals.

Those people who haven't been exposed to the religious disease are far healthier, both physically and mentally than those who have.

Again you make these statements but provide nothing as to back them up.

All of you quoting bible scripture do know that the bible is a bastardisation don't you? As in, it's total BUNK? Edited and changed so much, that the person who wrote the original fiction novel that it was would never recognise it!

Its amazing how all these "edited fiction novels" that were written by many individuals line up in perfect harmony as to the message it speaks. That is the truth, and the truth it speaks is louder than words.

It's like arguing between yourselves about which pair of identical black socks to wear. Irrelevant, and pointless.

Don't you know, true Christians don't wear socks with sandals

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Parallex


Calm down there big guy.

You said,

Lot's of people haven't heard of 'religion' or any type of God; because they are too busy having a life full of joy, happiness, wonder and excitement.

All I said was please show me who these people are, which you did not.
The only people on the face of this earth who haven't heard of religion or any type of God are poor uneducated third world people.
Now, Put your insults back in your tiny little head and show me different.

Come on my good fundie, get real! Do I have to spell it out for you? AIDS - proliferated by Christian idiot dogma. Mental instability - all too often associated with religious fervor. Christian (and others) Cultism - involving child molestation, adult rape, brainwashing, fraud, genocide - it's all there.

Your mixing apple with pears. Its a total lack of education which leads to these things you mention. Now, can you provide me with anything that supports your view, or are you going to entertain me with your own ideological worthless opinion.

Typical 'fundie' - your truth is the only truth right? Do you enjoy preaching tripe on ATS? You sound like a fascist.

Im not a "fundie" and its not my truth.However, you would not know this because you are blinded by pure ignorance.



[edit on 3-1-2010 by oliveoil]

Religion makes only assumptions when talking about the afterlife. Nobody knows what happens so you shouldn't worry about it.

Thread notice:

Please remember to post on topic and refrain from personal off topic posts.

Thanks.

reply to post by troubleshooter


I agree! Good points, it is like if you don't follow your concience you desensitize yourself and become dead inside, even before your physical body dies, and if you follow your concience and have a "clean" concience, you feel alive and wonderful, like the description of the fruitages of the spirit, (love, joy, peace, etc, etc, etc)

It is similar to my video (in my sig) about conversations with my ego.

No matter what your situation is you should never judge or question anothers salvation. A good Christian should be occupied by getting themselves right with God; always being ready to share their faith if asked.

God will deal with those that have never heard his message in his own way despite what we all think he will do. Its up to him.

The bonus to having faith in Christ is that when I feel death is near I will have no fear of the unknown. But those who openly mock, reject, ridicule Christ in this life will spend the rest of their lives scared of death whether they will admit it or not. One of the defense mechanisms to this fear is to try and break other people's faith in Jesus, which is just like spinning your tires in mud.

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
Seeing as we are all one consciousness how could you preclude anyone from anything, let alone Heaven.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by spacecowgirl]

We are clearly not of one consciousness.

And this post proves it.

reply to post by Parallex

Before we got a little off topic You said,

Lot's of people haven't heard of 'religion' or any type of God; because they are too busy having a life full of joy, happiness, wonder and excitement.

And I said,

Please show me who these people are ,and I will show you poor ,uneducated, third world nation individuals.


Now, do you have an answer for me or not?

I believe thats why God is waiting until ALL mankind has heard of His Son so that no man should perish. He wants everyone to have an opportunity to make their choice... sorry if I sound like I am proselytizing... Im not, just stating what I have heard from biblical scholars on the subject.

Those who have not had the gospel message preached to them directly will be judged according to what they do know about God and His commandments.

For example if one knows not to murder but commits murder anyway, that one will be judged according to his knowledge concerning the murder.

Those who do not have the gospel directly preached to them nevertheless do have the witness of the physical creation; they do have the witness of their own private life's history; and they do have the personal individual witness of their own conscience.

The message of the gospel is penned on all three of those "parchments" just as surely as it is penned on any extant Scriptures.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

- Romans 1:18:20"

"Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

- Proverbs 8:1-5"

Finally, consider who preached the gospel to Adam and Eve! To Noah! To Abraham! And to Job who said "I know that my redeeemer liveth"!

God can speak to man, not only through the aforementioned creation, history, and conscience; but through a voice, a dream, a vision, a thought, a gut feeling, common sense, an experience, a prophet, a wise man, a child, an adult, the "language" of the human body, and of course the gospel.

The difference is that those who have heard and rejected the gospel itself will be judged more harshly.

If a man wants God, then God will let that man find Him, whether the gospel has been preached or not. If a man does not want God, then God will not be found.

If a man wants other gods, however, God will also let that man find those other gods.

The choice is academic to every living human being on the face of this earth already. No one has been denied access to any gospel message.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by thisnamenotinuse]

Hell started as soon as Jesus returned to Heaven. Christians were put to the test, and until now they have not fulfilled their duty. The exacte nature of the task at hand sems mysterious to me, but it is Good by essence. evolving will allow us greater consciousness, and even to perceive new states of conscience.

It's philosophy , dude.
Only a quantum jumping jesus could create universes for the ones who haven't heard

Yea, I've often wondered this question.

It would seem no matter how good a person is, your salvation shall only be based on your geographical location. Ah well, I've always wanted to meet the Dalai Lama, looks like hell shall provide a chance.


[edit on 3-1-2010 by Occy Anonymous]

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Parallex

 

Before we got a little off topic You said,

Lot's of people haven't heard of 'religion' or any type of God; because they are too busy having a life full of joy, happiness, wonder and excitement.

And I said,

Please show me who these people are ,and I will show you poor ,uneducated, third world nation individuals.


Now, do you have an answer for me or not?

Why should I provide an answer to a rabid insult? Because that is what you are doing by suggesting that people who haven't been touched by religion are poor, uneducated and from the third world. Very small-minded I think.

Parallex.

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


Very Good Question OP! I just so happens i have already answered this multiple times before.


Perhaps god could forgive people post-posthumously regardless of original sin. Remember what is written in the bible does not mean that is gods concrete stance, god is capable of changing its' mind we must remember this contemplating gods judgement of other creatures.
So here is why i think atheists and other non-believers ( hindus,people who have never heard of god you name it) have a chance at getting into heaven Largely because their are also believers who will not get into heaven. And there are a few verses in the bible that support this theory.

Matthew 7:21Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my ...Father in heaven will get in.
22 On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles."
23 But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"

So in this instance we see how people doing the work of god in gods name will not be given access into heaven. But what about Atheists or other non-believers?

Second Peter 2:21
21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22


Now i will admit this quote is taken out of context. It occurs in a chapter that discusses false prophets, but for arguments sake let us assume that it could hold true outside of that context (and it very well could)

So should this be the true word of god (i am actually very skeptical of the bible being the "word of god") then we could safely deduce that an Atheist or agnostic, Someone who was ignorant to the way of "righteousness" or God, would be better off not believing in god than believing in god and committing acts of evil. Again this shows that believers who accept christ or yhwh as their lord and savior will not be given instant access to heaven. And if a man is better off being ignorant of god for whatever reason then we could safely assume that an atheist or other non-believer who does godly acts would have a good shot of getting into heaven.


But lets try to look at this in a more cold hard logical stance. Let's ignore the bible and think of this from what we will call "gods" perspective.

You are god, and There are two men at the pearly gates standing before you. you see a man who claims to worship you and know of you. Yet he lies, he steals, he cheats on his wife (or husband) and is greedy. He is a generally detestable person BUT he is a truebeliever and he attends church on sunday or temple on saturday, he teaches sunday school or hebrew school and sometimes gives money to the church. Not once has he ever earnestly asked for forgiveness of his sins. He asked only out of fear and not out of genuine humility.

And next to him is an atheist, someone who up until this point was not a true believer for whatever reason. But he was a good person, He Did not lie he did not steal, he did not cheat on his wife or husband he would go to the local hospital and play his keytar for children in the Burn Ward. He never attended a church and he stopped believing in god because he was not able to understand god for whatever reason or he was never told of god. He never asked forgiveness of his sins but he felt genuine remorse or regret for his wrongdoings and he saw to it that he would make an earnest effort never to do those things again. By all accounts we could consider this non-believer to be a good man.

Who would you choose? The superficially repentant believer? Or the Godly Atheist? I would choose the atheist And if i am capable of coming to this conclusion then i think god would be too.

A living dog is better than a dead lion.

All of man's good works are relative: relative to, say, man's bad works.

But how do man's good works stack up to, say, God's standards?

The Bible states that only God is good: everyone else is bad and they are bad precisely for the reason that they believe their "relative" goodness is "logically sufficient" for a God.

What that means, by way of analogy, is that if you tell me to do something your way and I do it...but I do it my way instead of yours (with the same results), then you are going to slap me on the shoulder and say "great stuff old boy!" Wow! I wish every past and present employer on the planet could learn that one before they hire.