Bill Cooper , 'insectlike' beings from a totally incomprehensible culture

reply to post by turk182


Sorry Turk but I just ain't buying it. She was involved in turning states evidence against someone more powerful than here and then told to go start a UFO magazine she had no interest in? Start a UFO magazine to...lay low? I don't get it. Mostly, the lack of links to sources and documentation. That really kind of bothers me a little too. My biggest problem though, is that while looking around the site, I clicked a whole 2 links (one labeled "home") and wound up on some dedication to Cooper. Do you have any real info on these people and some sources?

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by Josephus23

links and references please and not just more of the same sad ad hominem attacks. (I am hoping that you know what that is)

LINKS AND REFERENCES PLEASE. BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY.

If you can.
But you can't.

I am just curious here but since a cop was shot in the head, who is it you suppose actually did that if cooper could not from where he was?

I am not trying to be a pain in the butt, but your statement was a logical fallacy.

It was a negative proof fallacy. The ONLY thing that I said was that the angle in which bill cooper supposedly shot from could not have possibly hit an officer in the head.

Me not offering evidence to explain exactly who shot mr. cooper does not in any way negate my original statement.
Hence the fallacy.

Sorry brother, but i am a research student and I spend every day of my life for 6 hours a day pointing out logical fallacies.

The only thing that anyone can say definitively about Cooper is that someone wanted him dead.
Every protocol concerning an officer killing a civilian was broken the day of his murder. Federal agents do not have jurisdiction to administer a warrant issued by a state court judge. PERIOD. (They very possibly could now, but not back then)
This doesn't take a genius to figure out that he was murdered and that it was not self defense by the "officer".
(Someone stated earlier that An FBI agent shot the cop who was trying to protect cooper)

You guys have to remember that cooper was VERY WELL respected by everyone in his home town of Eager, AZ.

RULE # 1 IN RESEARCH:
1)Never speculate beyond the data

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Josephus23]

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Josephus23]

Originally posted by Josephus23
I am not trying to be a pain in the butt, but you statement was a logical fallacy.

It was a negative proof fallacy. The ONLY thing that I said was that the angle in which ramble blah blah blah.......

If you are looking for a fight, please look elsewhere. I simply asked a question. I committed no fallacy of any kind. Nice to know you follow jphish so well.

I ASKED A QUESTION.

That is all I did. Who shot the cop in the head. If you do not know, do not answer then. It seems like a really simple concept. You said Cooper could not have done it. OK, fine. So, do you have any idea who could have done it then? Any evidence anyone else did it then? I never once set out to disprove anything you said, I am simply asking. If asking these questions gets you so upset, perhaps you should find a different hobby.

Maybe you have mistaken me for someone else that you are arguing with. I am just curious. You are the one claiming Cooper could not do it from where he was. The cop was shot, right? So since you do not think Cooper did it, I could not help but hope that you had some thoughts on how it did happen then. Apparently not.

Anyone that can tell me who did shoot the cop, please answer. Anyone that wants to accuse me of something for asking, please just take a day and think it over before posting it.

After reading that he was possibly 1) an alcoholic 2) specifically given disinformation to basically be thwarted and confused- I really find it hard to believe this man's claims. However, because of the nature of his death- I feel we aren't getting the full story here.

This seems like a closed case already with very little details and nothing but stories from past acquaintances. Hard to say whose telling the truth but I don't truly think any of this information if valid would provide us with any new knowledge of whats truly going on anyway.

Interesting story, interesting man but too many factors here to trust this story...

reply to post by Lillydale


I merely provided the information that I was referring to. All are welcome to make up their own minds ,of course.
As I previously stated, I merely wanted to make it known(when someone was using UFO Mag articles against Cooper for their argument) that , according to COOPER(and some others), UFO magazine was a CIA funded publication.

I would , after reading it again now, retract my wording and not call what Cooper provided,"Proof" though. Not by a long-shot.

I do think it is fair to say that SOME people do not trust UFO magazine.
Now, if some people want to say that those people are idiots, and blind Cooper worshipers , OK, go ahead.
I believe people are capable of deciding these things for themselves. If they were to be humiliated into agreeing with all of the intelligently worded ,condescending posts by some people here who want them to dismiss EVERYTHING Bill Cooper ever said, I think they would be allowing themselves to be manipulated.
I am not telling anyone what to believe. Make up your own mind.
PEACE

Originally posted by turk182
...according to COOPER(and some others), UFO magazine was a CIA funded publication.

Who?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex



I was actually referring to the people who continue to keep this stuff available on line. Someone is doing it. He is dead. Others.
However,here is a link to story I read not too long ago where the author seems to agree, or at least he does not dismiss the possibility, www.newsmakingnews.com... , but for the sake of moving on, I will say that it was Coopers opinion. YES. My bad.

You were giving articles from UFO Magazine, and I thought this was relevant.
For those who may not have known. So they can decide for themselves.

Originally posted by turk182
reply to post by Lillydale

 

I merely provided the information that I was referring to. All are welcome to make up their own minds ,of course.
As I previously stated, I merely wanted to make it known(when someone was using UFO Mag articles against Cooper for their argument) that , according to COOPER(and some others), UFO magazine was a CIA funded publication.

Don't get me wrong. I was not looking for a fight. I was genuinely ignorant and was asking. You seemed to have some of a belief in what you said about it being a CIA front so I thought you had a good source. Perhaps that was too much assumption on my part. I was just surprised to find a list of things that are not facts, some opinions and that was about it. It did not make anyone seem like a good guy but it certainly did nothing to paint any picture of a CIA link. I was just hoping you had something really interesting since, as I said, I thought you believed it.

I would , after reading it again now, retract my wording and not call what Cooper provided,"Proof" though. Not by a long-shot.

Fair enough. Either way, I would have been curious to see what it was. This is a subject (Cooper specifically) I have just seen a bit in passing and found this thread interesting and was curious what you had in the way of proof. I would have still asked if you used another term, just not been as disappointed. (jk)

I do think it is fair to say that SOME people do not trust UFO magazine.
Now, if some people want to say that those people are idiots, and blind Cooper worshipers , OK, go ahead.
I believe people are capable of deciding these things for themselves. If they were to be humiliated into agreeing with all of the intelligently worded ,condescending posts by some people here who want them to dismiss EVERYTHING Bill Cooper ever said, I think they would be allowing themselves to be manipulated.
I am not telling anyone what to believe. Make up your own mind.
PEACE

I am not sure I see anything to argue with there. I think it looks like they have a huge pile of BS on either side. The police shooting seems to be a different story though.

Thanks for that reply.

To anyone else: Anyone that believes he did not shoot the cop, I am still really interested in an alternate theory then as to how the cop did get shot. Like I said, I am not looking for a fight. I do not have a side. I stated my opinion as formed and as informed as it is. I am just curious what the truth is at the bottom of this mess.

You've all seen movies where cop 1 shoots Mr Civilian, then shoots cop 2, making out that the civilian opened fire first and killed cop 2.

Self defence setup is common, as is faked suicide. The fact is, a man came forward and told what he knew about government coverups and suffered an attempt on his life. He continued to speak and eventually he ended up dead. Either way, the UFOlogy community lost a friend... someone who seemed pleasant and who spoke from the heart.

I believe Mr Cooper. He wasn't the first to be killed by his own government, i doubt he will be the last. We must not be frightened though.

Hurling abuse over the internet is one thing, but hurling abuse over the internet to a dead man is another. Give the guy a break. He paid with his life.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by ThinkLogic]

Originally posted by ThinkLogic
You've all seen movies where cop 1 shoots Mr Civilian, then shoots cop 2, making out that the civilian opened fire first and killed cop 2/

Because everything you see in the movies is real...

Originally posted by ThinkLogic
Either way, the UFOlogy community lost a friend...

Cooper had few, if any friends in Ufology. In fact, he came to call it "Ufoology".

Originally posted by ThinkLogic
someone who seemed pleasant and who spoke from the heart.

That proves you are either as deluded as Cooper or know nothing about him. No one would call him pleasant. But I know why you think he was; he's saying what you want to hear, so he must have been a saint, right?

Originally posted by ThinkLogic
The fact is, a man came forward and told what he knew about government coverups and suffered an attempt on his life....

Name one thing the man said that has proven true.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by ThinkLogic
You've all seen movies where cop 1 shoots Mr Civilian, then shoots cop 2, making out that the civilian opened fire first and killed cop 2.

So is that the case? Were there only two cops present, one being the victim?

Self defence setup is common, as is faked suicide. The fact is, a man came forward and told what he knew about government coverups and suffered an attempt on his life. He continued to speak and eventually he ended up dead. Either way, the UFOlogy community lost a friend... someone who seemed pleasant and who spoke from the heart.

It seems like from just the little I have learned from this thread and links provided in it, the UFO community lost someone who was using them as unwitting dupes in order to finance his fantasies. That is just my opinion though. I am leaning one way but I am still technically on the fence.

Aside from that though, he made no secret of his love for guns and his detest of the government. These things are known facts by his own words. Add to that the many many many accounts claiming he was an alcoholic and it is a little easier to believe a paranoid gun-loving government hating lying drunk shot at a cop rather than the other theory but I am certainly entertaining evidence.

Do you know how many cops were at the scene at the time the cop was shot?

I believe Mr Cooper. He wasn't the first to be killed by his own government, i doubt he will be the last. We must not be frightened though.

Would it change your mind at all if before he died, he threatened the United States government? Would that at least shed a little doubt on how exactly you think he died? Knowing that he promised to bring harm to any government agent attempting to carry out the law kind of makes me think that just maybe he did shoot a cop.
I also find it hard to trust someone who is a criminal. I mean he was accused of not paying his taxes from 1992 to 1994. Criminals tend to be dishonest. Criminals whose crimes revolve around money are the kind of people that have no problem lying to get more money. See where I am going with this line of thinking?

Hurling abuse over the internet is one thing, but hurling abuse over the internet to a dead man is another. Give the guy a break. He paid with his life.

Are you talking to me? If I abused him, I certainly apologize. I am honestly just attempting to learn more about the man. I guess I find accused frauds more interesting because there is that extra layer of mystery involved. All I thought I was doing was asking questions up until this post where I did post some facts. They may not shine the brightest light upon the man but they are not derisive in nature, just facts; unless you have evidence to the contrary. I am open.



[edit on 1/7/10 by Lillydale]

I hold absolutely nothing against cooper. Apparently many of you are portraying yourselves as experts on someone you simply do not know. fascinating-NOT.
The one thing I find interesting is his explanation, or strategy, in releasing information. He says he did it to protect himself. That, to me makes no sense, or rather, wouldn't it have been simpler to say "I wanted to make positively sure the info was not suppressed"? Obviously, if they want you dead, unless you disappear from society..., you're dead. Sounds like he was not the sharpest tool in the shed to me.
I respect anyone who stands up to lies. Those who lie about subjects such as 911 and spend tax money to suppress info from the taxpayers , imo, should be killed. I'll be more than happy to kill 'em all. I never read much on coop, but seems like an affable guy. It makes absolutely no sense for someone such as himself to have been stupid enough to claim he would shoot any law enforcement. Personally, they way cops treat the average citizen as criminals and slaves to be dictated to, I have no sympathy for them at all.
Interesting is that he was such a proponent in exposing the US govt coverup and then is basically murdered shortly after. How convenient. The US govt, imo, in it's entirety, should be shot on sight. Obama I would love to hang from the front porch of the white house itself until he literally rots off his rope and is swept into the neighboring flower bed as fertilizer.

How can a man shoot a deputy in the head whilst being shot at and running for his house

According to Police, Cooper lived on a hilltop over looking several undeveloped areas and other homes below. Despite not owning the land below his home, Cooper was known to chase teenagers or young lovers off the land and Police decided to use this to lure Cooper away from his home. Det. Valenzuela stated that two undercover Sheriff's Deputies were sent in a pick-up truck to the area below Cooper's home. There were also two uniformed Deputies in the bed of the pick-up. As expected, Cooper drove down to that area from his home and told the two undercover Deputies to leave.

But Cooper left and drove away toward his home before the undercover deputies could do anything. While on his way back up the hill, a fully marked Sheriff's patrol vehicle blocked the road(1) in front of Cooper. Uniformed members of the Sheriff's Department SWAT Team (2) exited that marked vehicle and told Cooper to stop, keep his hands where they could see them and exit the vehicle. They say Cooper placed one hand outside his window, then accelerated around the police car, trying to run over a Sheriff Sergeant. Police gave brief chase to Cooper's home.

Police say Cooper exited his vehicle, drew a handgun and began firing at Deputies as he ran toward his house. One Deputy Sheriff was struck at least once and possibly twice in the head.(3) Another Deputy returned fire, hitting Cooper several times. The wounded Deputy was evacuated by Helicopter to a hospital in Phoenix. Cooper was pronounced dead at the scene by Paramedics who were at the scene standing-by

The following questions arise from this incident: (1) Cooper would have had to pass the marked Police patrol Vehicle while going down the hill. Why would he do so without seeing it and fleeing? Further, how could he drive around it once it came onto the road while Cooper was enroute back to his home? (2) If Police intended a peaceful, non-violent arrest, why send a SWAT Team? (3) If Cooper drew a gun and fired "while running back toward his home" as police say, how could he hit a Deputy once and possibly twice in the head? A head-shot is a difficult thing to accomplish with a hand gun, never mind two head shots while the shooter is running! (4) Why were Paramedics "on the scene standing-by" if Sheriffs intended this to be a peaceful arrest?

Source

In March of 1999, Cooper William Sent his family out of the United States for their security , he obviously new what was comming.
SierraTimes.com 6th November 2001
"...God bless my family. I love my wife & children more than life itself. Everything I do is for the future of all my children. They may not understand why I have sacrificed so much, why I am so dedicated to this work; but someday they will. I want them to know they are the most important People in my life, and how very, very much I love them..." - William Cooper
Deputy Robert Martinez was not killed .
Bill Cooper was set up and murdered.

reply to post by gortex


I agree with your evaluation of the police report. Star for you.

I do not see how Cooper could have shot a policeman in the head while running in the opposite direction and shooting behind himself.
Cooper was very well trained with firearms. I would imagine that if he had decided to shoot, then he would have positioned himself in such a way as to actually do some damage.

With that being said.
It could have been a luck shot. I will not discount that, but a luck shot is not a parsimonious explanation.

@ Lillydale:

I am mos def not looking for a fight with you. I consider you an ally here at ATS, and I understand why you would question who did shoot the deputy.

This is a scenario that was posited by a friend of mine.

The swat team that was used to issue the warrant for Cooper was also accompanied by Federal Agents. Cooper was very well respected by several individuals in the local police force. Perhaps the officer that was shot was trying to protect Cooper and he was shot by a Federal Agent.
After seeing Cooper shot dead, and being shot himself, then I would imagine that the officer would have good reason to go along with the official storyline.

As I said, this is a hypothetical situation. I am merely trying to answer your question Lillydale. A question that is both valid and reasonable.

The mystery surrounding Cooper's death will never be answered.
The one thing that can be said, without a doubt, is that the official storyline regarding Cooper's death does not seem congruent with what his expected behaviors would have been.
He served in the military and knew that he was on the list.
I could not imagine him resisting the LOCAL police force. He continually recognized the power of the local government, but he refused to recognize any power inherent in the Federal Government.

IMHO, Cooper and the officer were both shot by Federal Agents.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by Josephus23]

THIS IS A RESPECTFUL REPLY TO LILLYDALE:

Star for the effort Lillydale.

However...

I would like to say that you made a couple of errors regarding Cooper's character. What I am saying should not be misconstrued as me trying to pick a fight with you. I am only trying to clear up any misunderstandings regarding Cooper.

I also find it hard to trust someone who is a criminal. I mean he was accused of not paying his taxes from 1992 to 1994. Criminals tend to be dishonest. Criminals whose crimes revolve around money are the kind of people that have no problem lying to get more money. See where I am going with this line of thinking?

Being accused of not paying taxes is in no way criminal. The 16th Amendment is unconstitutional because it requires taxpayers to pay a direct UN-APPORTIONED tax. This is in direct violation to the constitution. People blindly follow this supposed law because the lower courts put people in jail for not paying their taxes, but the Supreme Court has declared the income tax unconstitutional. You can find more information about this here.

None of that really matters anyway. We are all innocent until proven guilty.
Unfortunately Cooper was never afforded that chance.

Would it change your mind at all if before he died, he threatened the United States government? Would that at least shed a little doubt on how exactly you think he died? Knowing that he promised to bring harm to any government agent attempting to carry out the law kind of makes me think that just maybe he did shoot a cop.

The Federal "Government" of the United States is actually a corporation masquerading as our country.
See here. Scroll down for the definition of the United States.

Cooper was not an anarchist. He was respectful of the Constitution for the united states of America.
He swore his allegiance to uphold the Constitution in just about every single radio show in his archive.
What Cooper did not respect was the United States Federal Government.
(see corporation)

Aside from that though, he made no secret of his love for guns and his detest of the government. These things are known facts by his own words. Add to that the many many many accounts claiming he was an alcoholic and it is a little easier to believe a paranoid gun-loving government hating lying drunk shot at a cop rather than the other theory but I am certainly entertaining evidence.

I know of no evidence that he was in any way dependent upon Alcohol.
I have heard people tell stories about his alcohol use, but these stories NEVER come from any of Cooper's colleagues and ALWAYS come from people who seek to discredit Cooper.
BTW...I have also heard people tell me stories that two planes took down WTC 1 and 2.

Cooper may have been paranoid, but I think that he had good reason.

And as I have discussed before, Cooper was not against local government nor the country of America.
What Cooper detested was the proxy government that masquerades as our country.

It seems like from just the little I have learned from this thread and links provided in it, the UFO community lost someone who was using them as unwitting dupes in order to finance his fantasies. That is just my opinion though. I am leaning one way but I am still technically on the fence.

I don't think that he was using anyone and I hope that I might have switched your opinion regarding him.

Listen to his mystery babylon series.

In this series he continually swears his allegiance to uphold the Constitution.

Originally posted by Josephus23
THIS IS A RESPECTFUL REPLY TO LILLYDALE:

Star for the effort Lillydale.

However...

I would like to say that you made a couple of errors regarding Cooper's character. What I am saying should not be misconstrued as me trying to pick a fight with you. I am only trying to clear up any misunderstandings regarding Cooper.

No problem. I am certainly no expert on the issue and could stand to be educated/corrected on it. I really do not mind. I just hope you do not mind a reply to that.

Being accused of not paying taxes is in no way criminal. The 16th Amendment is unconstitutional because it requires taxpayers to pay a direct UN-APPORTIONED tax. This is in direct violation to the constitution. People blindly follow this supposed law because the lower courts put people in jail for not paying their taxes, but the Supreme Court has declared the income tax unconstitutional. You can find more information about this here.

I am not even going to look at your link and I will tell you why. Who has gotten away with not paying their taxes since that ruling? Have you? Do a little search on the internet. The vast majority of people that tried to get away with more than one year of a "tax protest" are snake oil salesman. Many of them dress up as patriots and want to teach you all about the unlawful tax laws. They have a nice book to sell you all about it. How many have won? I would think if the supreme court decided that income tax is against the law, you would have an example of someone lawfully getting by without paying them...

crickets.

crickets.

He can protest all he likes but that does not make it true. Refusing to pay your taxes is still against the law whether you agree that it is constitutional or not. Proving it is unlawful would be a fantastic feat but no one has done that yet. Proving marijuanna use being hampered by police is unlawful too would be great but as of yet...still actually against the law for me to go get it.

I respect your effort but I am afraid that this attempt skews my view of you a bit. Surely you must know it is intellectually dishonest to try and make the argument that this man was not breaking the law because of some supreme court ruling when you yourself pay your own income tax and the supreme court did not rule in his particular favor now did they?

So to sum up...unless you can prove that it is legal to not pay your income tax, he broke the law. People that break the law under the guise of patriotism have my respect until it seems to serve more to line their pockets. There are more worthwhile laws to protest especially when you know your tax dollars go to support your community as well as be abused by government. It is not patriotic to start with the law that helps you to break and screws over other Americans.

Moot anyway as it is still obviously illegal. He broke the law. Sorry. Supreme Court and all, you still have to pay your taxes and I still have to pay mine and you know it.

None of that really matters anyway. We are all innocent until proven guilty.
Unfortunately Cooper was never afforded that chance.

Unless you admit you did commit the crime because you were so proud of your "patriotic protest." Admission of guilt usually does a real good job of determining guilt for me.

The Federal "Government" of the United States is actually a corporation masquerading as our country.
See here. Scroll down for the definition of the United States.

I thought you were going to clear some things up about Cooper? Do not sit there and try and pretend to defend him and then instead justify threatening the government by bashing the government. That is BS. I could care less what the government is. If you threaten to shoot anyone coming to get you and someone coming to get you gets shot....well???? That is the crux of it. I could care less if it was Hitler. I am not defending government. I am pointing out that it looks pretty good for the cops when the man made public statements promising to do exactly what went down. DEFEND THAT!

Cooper was not an anarchist. He was respectful of the Constitution for the united states of America. He swore his allegiance to uphold the Constitution in just about every single radio show in his archive.
What Cooper did not respect was the United States Federal Government.
(see corporation)

So it is ok to shoot people you do not respect?

Not respecting the government is why he must not have shot the cop?

Not getting the defense here.

I know of no evidence that he was in any way dependent upon Alcohol.

There is more evidence that he was an alcoholic than there is evidence that he was framed in that cop shooting. I asked for evidence to the contrary, not what you want to just pretend is not out there. There is NO SHORTAGE of friends and family statements on the web about his alcohol problem. Seems to have been widely promoted for some time now by the people that knew him best. If you have evidence that he was not and did not shoot the cop, great. Just telling me what you think is a little useless at this point since you think that it is ok to not pay your income tax and yet, you pay it.

I have heard people tell stories about his alcohol use, but these stories NEVER come from any of Cooper's colleagues and ALWAYS come from people who seek to discredit Cooper.

Really? Have you looked? Seriously looked? I will have to look again but as I remember, the first ones to come up were from friends of his.

BTW...I have also heard people tell me stories that two planes took down WTC 1 and 2.

I heard Bill Cooper was framed for murder and there is no evidence for that. See how that works?

Cooper may have been paranoid, but I think that he had good reason.

You are not even trying. I never said he needed to justify his paranoia. I said he made it well known that he was just waiting with glee to use deadly force on anyone attempting to enforce the law on his property. It does not really matter why.

And as I have discussed before, Cooper was not against local government nor the country of America.
What Cooper detested was the proxy government that masquerades as our country.

That would run contradictory to his refusing to pay his income tax and murdering a fellow American, would it not? He was not keeping money from just the proxy government and the person he shot was just another American like him. Lucky I was never on the receiving end of his "love."

I don't think that he was using anyone and I hope that I might have switched your opinion regarding him.

I think you pushed me off the fence, if that is what you wanted.

Listen to his mystery babylon series.

In this series he continually swears his allegiance to uphold the Constitution.

I will listen to that when I get to a computer with sound. Until then, I cannot comment on the content other than what you say. He can swear all he likes. Big deal. I can say the same thing while wandering the mall shooting random shoppers. I can say the same thing on my radio show for a year straight and then do something really bad. It means very very little. What means something are his actions, not his radio words. In his actions, he spent a great deal of his time making sure people knew he like guns, booze, and the idea of shooting a government agent. These things are all well known. You said you would defend his character and all you did was attempt to attack his adversaries. That is exactly the opposite of what you should have done but thanks anyway.

Cooper had fake leg.

I take that into account when I hear reports of 'running'. Overweight and running - with one leg.

Anyhow, the 'running headshot' should be referred to a the 'limping-away headshot'.

And if he was facing away or limping away, was he shot in the back? anybody find that out?


*Listen to that Don Ecker show on page one t hear how crazy cooper was. Don Ecker is awesome.

reply to post by Lillydale


Try chamomile tea Lillydale.
I have heard that it is calming.

I would love to see something from an associate of his regarding his alcoholism.
If you refuse to read the links that I provide then how can this be considered a debate?

Since I can't find anything on Cooper that substantiates his supposed alcoholism, then you can check out information on him found

here

here is his autopsy report

or you can look here

or here

or even here

definitely here

here too brother

You will have to excuse me. I like to provide links to back up my claims

Here is some UFO nuts that love the guy

try this link

any links that you can provide would be great

Tag. You are it.

I still consider you an ally Lillydale.

I don't take this personally. I would hope the same from you.

Cheers and good night.

reply to post by Exuberant1


He was shot six times in the back.

Read the autopsy report that I have provided.

Exactly what do you mean by "listen to him to hear how crazy he is"?

I mean. We are on ATS. I would think that most people on this board are considered crazy by one person or another.
Do you come to ATS to find other sane people?
If so, then I would suggest you look somewhere else.

I hear people attacking Cooper, but I seem to be the only person other than the OP that is providing any links.
This is so sad.
I could swear that you have something about being a debater on your avatar.

Maybe you might want to rethink that.




[edit on 14-1-2010 by Josephus23]

Originally posted by Josephus23

Exactly what do you mean by "listen to him to hear how crazy he is"?

On page one of this thread there in an mp3 posted by Fist of the North.

In it you can hear the crazy, drunken ramblings and threats that cooper left on various people's answering machines.


"I've got your knees and I'm gonna smash 'em "

- Drunk Bill Cooper to Don Ecker's answering machine.


*If you don't listen to the mp3, you'll never hear how messed up Cooper was.

He lied, cheated, stole and threatened people.

...but some idiots admire him and pretend he didn't.



[edit on 14-1-2010 by Exuberant1]