Ireland Bans Blasphemy

Originally posted by FirstRonin

...publishing or uttering matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion...

.

(emphasis mine)

My religion holds the peoples right to blaspheme as sacred!
Clearly the Irish government published documents grossly insulting to my religion!
Unless the law specifically omits religions not officially recognized -such as Pastafarianism, Discordianism, the Church of SubGenius, or the Landover Baptist Cuhrch (which finds anything blasphemous that is not written in the old testament)- They actually opened up a world of buerocratic pain on themselves!

I urge any free thinker to challenge this idiocy! (I'm not in Ireland, but maybe I should go there soon... )

EDIT: I scanned the law, seems like no mention what-so-ever of the applicable religions...

[edit on 2010.1.1 by Carlthulhu]

reply to post by mamabeth


Actually that is just what the article says, which quite frankly is nothing more than a blog site and its not like everything said in that article is going to be the golden truth. Though if you want to take everything from that site at face value, you may find some enlightening truths, as it does seem to be an atheist driven site.

As it always seems to happen, most people can't be bothered to read the actual law, even when its given to them in the OP because it isn't nearly sensational enough.

There's an easy solution to laws like this. You get the entire populace to disregard them at once and the State won't have enough jail space for all of you. Or all the Irish that knew this was coming could have told enough others about it to create a scene.

Of course, I'm from the US, so honestly who am I to talk about other nations being lazy and not watching what their politicians do?

If this is true then its a very disturbing trend - just how insecure do as group of people have to be to criminalize not mindlessly conforming to superstitious opinion?

Does the same law apply to Voodoo or Greek mythology?



On the other hand at least they don't murder you like they do in Pakistan.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by FirstRonin
This is the beginning for many countries. Freedom of speech is going the way of the dodo. I feel sorry for the Irish people that such a primative law has been passed. How long before we see this all over the globe?

Hold onto your tongues, you don't wan't to offend anybody now.

Can we not speak our minds? The thought police are knocking down your doors as we speak.

Just flabbergastered!

Copy of the Law here

blasphemy.ie
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 1-1-2010 by FirstRonin]

First, your "news" link is to a blog.
Second, your link to the new blasphemy law is a link to a 2009 Defamation law and it doesn't mention blasphemy once.

What's up? Am I missing something?

From the blog you quote:

The new law defines blasphemy as publishing or uttering matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby intentionally causing outrage among a substantial number of adherents of that religion, with some defences permitted.

The linked law doesn't mention blasphemy and it's subject is defamation defined as: "“defamatory statement” means a statement that tends to injure a person’s reputation in the eyes of reasonable members of society,
and “defamatory” shall be construed accordingly;".

I think you've been duped...

[edit on 1/1/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

The root of evil in the world is not religion, is human nature and human ignorance, religion is the scapegoat, so banning blasphemy is not doing a darn thing until humans evolve or religion gets banned in our world.

Have fun with human beings trying to imposed their own version of oppression to conform to the wishes of those that are in power.

According to Njáls saga: Hjalti Skeggiason, an Icelander newly converted to Christianity, wished to express his contempt for the native gods, so he sang:

"Ever will I Gods blaspheme
Freyja methinks a dog does seem,
Freyja a dog? Aye! Let them be
Both dogs together Odin and she!"

Hjalti was found guilty of blasphemy for his infamous verse and he ran to Norway with his father-in-law, Gizur the White. Later, with Olaf Tryggvason's support, Gizur and Hjalti came back to Iceland to invite those assembled at the Althing to convert to Christianity (which happened in 999).

This guy would'a gotten nowhere. Infact I would get nowhere, I'm the biggest heathen blasphemer since dawkins.

Ireland is one step closer to tyranny.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman



Thanks for your post.

I was aware this was a "blog" but still felt it was news. Sorry if I used the wrong posting style for this.

With regard to the literal mention of the term Blasphemy if you look at Part 5.

Section 36.

36.—(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on
indictment to a fine not exceeding \25,000.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters
blasphemous matter if—
(a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive
or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any
religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial
number of the adherents of that religion, and
(b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the
matter concerned, to cause such outrage.
(3) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this
section for the defendant to prove that a reasonable person would
find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value
in the matter to which the offence relates.
(4) In this section “religion” does not include an organisation or
cult—
(a) the principal object of which is the making of profit, or
(b) that employs oppressive psychological manipulation—
(i) of its followers, or
(ii) for the purpose of gaining new followers.

The next little section goes onto talk about the police being able to enter your home, search and seize an copies of documents etc.

I thought it was interesting anyway.

I'm not sure why you'd have a go at me about this (apart from the new's post mistake), This type of Medi-Evil law can start of small in another country, but eventually you could see this in your neighborhood, there are a lot of control groups that would like to push laws like this through across the world.

We might not be able to see it now. Perhaps in ten years time?

Our awareness of the gradual degradation of our freedoms is paramount.

Then people should speak up. In Ireland. It's too late.







[edit on 1-1-2010 by FirstRonin]

reply to post by FirstRonin


No problem and thanks for the reference to the specific section. I had used the search function in my browser using the word "blasphemy" and came up with zero usage and therfore assumed it wasn't in there. My apologies... the search term was "blasphemous" and it is there!

36.—(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on
indictment to a fine not exceeding \25,000.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters
blasphemous matter if—
(a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive
or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any
religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial
number of the adherents of that religion, and
(b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the
matter concerned, to cause such outrage.
(3) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this
section for the defendant to prove that a reasonable person would
find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value
in the matter to which the offence relates.
(4) In this section “religion” does not include an organisation or
cult—
(a) the principal object of which is the making of profit, or
(b) that employs oppressive psychological manipulation—
(i) of its followers, or
(ii) for the purpose of gaining new followers.

Now, with that straightened out...

They do seem to provide a defense to accusation of blasphemy if you can prove that it is for literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value which would seem to imply that what they want to do is to outlaw baiting just for the sake of strife - as we witness here on ATS all the time.

That said, this does seem a slippery slope, indeed... S&F!


[edit on 1/1/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

I foresee many new and welcome Irish immigrants moving to Australia!

IRM

Originally posted by FirstRonin
I'm not sure why you'd have a go at me about this (apart from the new's post mistake), This type of Medi-Evil law can start of small in another country, but eventually you could see this in your neighborhood, there are a lot of control groups that would like to push laws like this through across the world.

We might not be able to see it now. Perhaps in ten years time?

Our awareness of the gradual degradation of our freedoms is paramount.

Then people should speak up. In Ireland. It's too late.

I agree. I think we cross posted when you were editing your post... see my previous post after yours.

so does this mean saying openly you are an atheist or agnostic be illegal?

to deny the existence of god must be blasphemous by definition right?
I hope i miss interpreted this article,it is early...

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
so does this mean saying openly you are an atheist or agnostic be illegal?

to deny the existence of god must be blasphemous by definition right?
I hope i miss interpreted this article,it is early...

No, you can still brag about being atheist or agnostic . But yes historically denying Christian religion was pretty much blasphemy and was even punishable by horrendous torture and death.

To make things look more interesting, I shall also mention that first Christians used to be put to extreme public tortures by Romans in order to accept their pagan gods and denounce Christ as it was "blasphemy". Many centuries later, Holy Roman Empire continued the tradition but this time as we all know it was the other way around - religions come and go but man's savagery remained.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by SassyCat]

[edit on 1-1-2010 by SassyCat]

Originally posted by ziggystrange
Ireland (not Northern Ireland) is mostly Catholic. I'm sure that's how that happened.

I have lived in Northern Ireland all my life and I have been spending my spring, summer, autumn and winter holidays in the Republic of Ireland all my life.

I can assure you that Northern Ireland is also mostly Catholic. I know Gerry Adams, not on a personal basis but I have met the man many times, lived near him once and all my life knew particular individuals of his family. I keep an eye on the votes, census an statistics. Everywhere I travel, everywhere I go Catholics are present. Every now and again you come across a town which sidewalks, lamposts are painted with the Union Jack (known as "The Butcher's Apron" to us Irishmen). Union jacks fly from every single possible protestant place, arches of British and Protestant beliefs are plastered in every single Protestant town. But, the Catholics and Irish citizens of Northern Ireland; need not to fly no flag nor paint no brick. Only in highly republican areas you will see the odd mural respecting the dead.

This claim of Ireland and this new "Blasphemy Law" is nonsense. Ireland/Northern Ireland is actually the most controversial religious country in my eyes and many others. If this law where the case, then the entire country would be in jail and/or fined.

Its nonsense, The Houses of Oireachtas can suck my big thumb. This will never become reality and the first person ever to be fined under this new law will cause a serious national protest. There will be riots and violence, us Irish will never accept such a ridiculous law. Looks like this law was just passed without reason, or maybe it was created to disturb the peace? Organized chaos.

This wont happen, seriously. My country men are all very hot headed, we invented the hunger strike as well as many other things that will be useful to get this absurd law expunged.

TIOCFAíDH AR LÁ

[edit on 1/1/2010 by the_denv]

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
so does this mean saying openly you are an atheist or agnostic be illegal?

to deny the existence of god must be blasphemous by definition right?
I hope i miss interpreted this article,it is early...

No, it means this:

(a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive
or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any
religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial
number of the adherents of that religion, and
(b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the
matter concerned, to cause such outrage.
(3) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this
section for the defendant to prove that a reasonable person would
find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value
in the matter to which the offence relates.

This law is in fact a threat to my very sovereign rights.

First St.Patrick comes here and murders most of the Pagans and Druids and calls them snakes; then St. Patrick gets to be the Patriarchal Saint of Ireland? WTF? I have been to Tara Hill during the Summer Solstice and even the Druids just "dont get" it! I have still to meet a man or woman that his or her head is screwed on regarding the true history of Ireland.

The E.U. are trying to ruin Ireland, heck most of Dublin is now full of Nigerian's. I am not racist, because even my Afrikan friends say that the Nigerians give Afrikans a bad name. I personally knew Nigerians and they have infiltrated Ireland, pretend to be "rappers" seduce white Irish girls, get them pregnant, get a passport and then they FECK OFF. One Nigerian got his Irish wife to scam my sister of nearly ten thousand Euros. These people are sick, and its as if while Belfast had its troubles, the Republic was being invaded by foreign laws, polices, currency, and people. Recently the Irish police slammed down on a human trafficking group in Ireland, the Triads rule the drug underworld here.

Ireland is being attacked, and nobody is seeing it, all they are about is their beer and drugs - I feel alone

By they way, my Afrikan friend was Bob Marley's groupie

[edit on 1/1/2010 by the_denv]

[edit on 1/1/2010 by the_denv]

reply to post by the_denv


Was there any mention of this law being introduced in the Irish Media?

It's seems as though someone's slipped it in under the nose of your countrymen?

I don't know if they appreciate just what a can of worms it is they have opened with this legislation. It's appears open to abuse or in the very least grey enough in description that anyone could claim offence at another party (aside from just catholics)

[edit on 1-1-2010 by FirstRonin]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


governmentese has always been a difficult language for me.

to say god doesn't exist would be highly insulting to say maybe a priest or nun.therefore the first paragraph should apply.

making a vow of celibacy to something that doesn't exist for a reward you'll never get would kinda suck IMHO.

Originally posted by bigyin
Would it even cover that, the difference between Catholic and Protestant, both are Christian faiths ?

Its not about that, the whole Catholic/Protestant thing has thankfully pretty much died along with the Northern troubles. Finally!

This is more about all people & religions and people insulting beliefs & character as opposed to Christians slinging mud.

A load of crap IMO.. it will really only affect controversial journalists.

And BTW.. its not a blasphemy law.. its an Anti Defamation law. There's a massive difference there.


[edit on 1/1/10 by Dermo]

This is fantastic. Now Islamic imams who preach hate in mosques can be arrested and fined for their blasphemy against non-muslims. Further, muslims who don't accept Christians can be charged with blasphemy.

Start locking 'em up!!!

So what about those of us that have no religious belief, i find some religious sayings highly offensive, would i be able to make a claim that someone had use a term that was against what i believe in, or am i considered an outcast because i have no religious belief?