POLICE ARE TERRORISTS!!! Oh boy, Oh boy...Please Enjoy!!!

Originally posted by Raist
Being as such you cannot claim all police are bad people.

Please, point out anywhere in my posts that I did that because I'm sure I didn't.

I did notice how that defensive position was taken like it was more of concern based on the conversation here alone.

Now who turned on who?

Originally posted by watcher73
Im not. But way to miss the entire point yet again and focus on something inconsequential.

You still studying up on those two cases? Or are you ready to apologize yet "officer"?

Your point..95% of your posts have no point! I focused on YOU badmouthing police actions and military actions (if ordered) yet you wore the same uniform. So MY POINT was is there a difference between me and you? Nice deflection...

And read the posts, I already answered this question. For someone who badmouthed me and others for not reading ALL of your posts your sure quick to run the trap..

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by watcher73
Im not. But way to miss the entire point yet again and focus on something inconsequential.

You still studying up on those two cases? Or are you ready to apologize yet "officer"?

Your point..95% of your posts have no point! I focused on YOU badmouthing police actions and military actions (if ordered) yet you wore the same uniform. So MY POINT was is there a difference between me and you? Nice deflection...

And read the posts, I already answered this question. For someone who badmouthed me and others for not reading ALL of your posts your sure quick to run the trap..

You didnt even answer the question in my last post lieocer.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by watcher73]

reply to post by watcher73


Uhh, your last post asked about the case law/appeals. And I DID answer that yesterday! You just missed that post apparently...

Originally posted by ugie1028
who in their right state of mind would place a pregnant female in the middle of a possible shootout?

People who uphold the 2nd amendment.

He said he knew his rights right?

Doesn't matter now, does it?

Imagine if he survived this and it went to court.

He should have survived. If he never actually killed anybody, he died innocent, a martyr.

do you think a jury would convict those cops

Let me sit on the bench of the jury, and I'll let you know. Is this video out to taint potential jurors? Have they been tried for murder?

they told him to surrender, he refused.

What exactly did they want to arrest him for? (I learned this question from a fine officer, a Sheriff and a gentleman!)

they sent the dogs in, and well.... you saw how it ended.

I noticed they didn't run in to check to see if he was still alive. Even if it was suppose to be a non-lethal weapon, don't you think they would be concerned of a lethal hit?

Originally posted by Raist

You wondered:

Which is why I cannot understand some who refuse to report criminals to the police.

But you already answered:

There is nothing wrong with protecting your own I would not say there is.

Then...

You cannot protect your own without protecting your community, it is just impossible to do.

So, the perspective from the community is the everybody is human. Some don't report others because they believe it is protecting their own.

To your question above, the person that they refused to report may be law enforcement. It may be their captain. Maybe they feel if their captain can get away with it then there is no where else to go but leave.

Well, "I didn't personally watch the video, and don't intend to either."
There are way to many documentaries and reality shows on the tube that are sufficient enough for my argument.
But I did read every post of this thread. There are some short sighted individuals posting here, and that is if one drop's the "Cop's are the terrorist's" belief system they have some how acquired through incorrect or self absorbed idealism's.
I have never been a law enforcement officer, nor would I want to be one (Would like to be something like CSI or the like though) due to the pale picture it paint's of such individuals. Not all of the law enforcement officer are as some suggest, but there are those few power hungry officer's that have some kind of inadvertent desire to "Control and Conquer" anything that doesn't fall in their personal guideline's of self acknowledged laws and rules. There are some very bad law enforcement officer's out there, hell, we have them in my home town, and it is only a population of 1200 people, but for the most part, it is the choice of those individuals themselves, and nothing to do with the upper echelons of their departments and county affiliations.
The argument's made on this thread thus far can be supported as factual based incidences and both sides of the conversation are absolutely correct, to a point. That point being their is true corruption on both sides of the fence when it comes to these issues.
As for the military and local, state and government full blown Marshall law taking effect in 2010, it is possible, i guess, the only thing to this argument is that it is all based on assumption and innuendoes, not fact based protocol. And besides, the enforcements that would be implemented into such a coup d'etat of the given rights of the American people would jeopardize the safety of their family and loved one's, they realise this and I personally don't believe a cop or a soldier would bare arms for the direct intent of destroying a citizen of the USA for having had it with big government and out of control spending issues, after all, they are realising as well. Not to long ago there was an article in my local paper stating that the county and state worker's would not see a rise in pay for sometime, some of those individuals even took the cut of pay just so they wouldn't be back on the job search market, getting tough to find work these days, you know.
We have been watching the world around us here in the USA, if you want to see thing's of the martial law and horrendous acts of as truly vile and corrupt government, read the world news, plenty of examples to choose from. We here in the US are experiencing something that has not taken place since 1929, there are part's of the world that live like today is their last day on earth because it is their way of life and living, they have never had the opportunity experience such lavish type of existence as we do in the USA, and I think it is because we are fully protected and enforced by the people of law enforcement and government operations protecting us from such individuals such as disoriented and narcissistic gang member's.

If I need law officer's because someone has broken into my home or any other illegal acts committed against me, all I have to do is dial 9 1 1 and the response is inexplicably transferred to the proper connections and are dispatched to the place of my residence for my protection. It is not like there wasn't someone, whether it be the instigator of a crime or a stand by innocent witness to a crime that has or would contact the nearest police department to report a crime being committed and being the protective citizen and neighbor we all strive to be, the police officer's are a welcomed intervention to such acts. They are just doing there job, and there are more "GOOD COP'S" than there are rogue, disrespectful and controlling one's.

I am not pulling sides here, I am just acknowledging that both sides may be accurately right in this discussion, though the OP is getting somewhat blown out of proportion from either side of explanation.

The OP for his undying defense of the video even being created as it was titled, and the arguer's that believe that there isn't anything wrong with a man that has apparently admitted to murder and is caring an armed weapon.

Though this topic may have merit, it will only be viewed as precognition analogies from either side of this argument.

Just my view.. No disrespect intended for either side.

"CIAO"
Allred5923

reply to post by rcwj1975


You say

"And this statement pretty much sums up that your an idiot. And a retired scientist huh...wow"

I'm the idiot? The statement I made may well be an exaggeration, but most people with half a brain would know it's not meant to be taken literally.

But then maybe I'm expecting too much synaptic activity from you.

In my post I took particular care not to insult you.
Your insult me, and you question my stated Profession. Why would I lie? to impress you? Don't flatter yourself.

This is part of the problem, you felt justified in escalating the discussion to baseless personal insults.

What's next officer? Violence? Some imaginary crime on my part?

What do I mean by seeing the crime, not the badge?
If you have to ask......

I asked you specifically, what is your limit for cop crime. That means, what does a fellow cop have to do to be arrestable in your eyes?

You call me a LEO hater, that's a figment of your imagination. To me a LEO is a LEO that is not a criminal, do I hate on criminal LEO, absolutely, and so should everyone else. You should too, you say you do, but your words betray you.

My questions about you breaking the law, I did not say they all made you a criminal. I understand where some discretion is valid. But I think you know where that line is, after all you are LEO.

You said

"(not as a cop)"

That can't be true. It's not humanly possible, but you have no problem justifying yourself with a lie. This is how corrupt LEO behave.

Make a mistake and shoot and unarmed guy, that's what the throwaway piece is for. You screw up and compromise your pension, a criminal is born on the spot as needed. You know it's true.

I have seen NYPD in action with my own eyes, and it almost cost me my life because I was seen talking with the victim, they knew I was a witness.

One cop literally grabbed his partner and would not let him out of the car, his gun was out and he was coming for me. It worked, having children, I was not going to get myself shot to get a few cops a slap on the wrist, so I did not testify. I resent them for that.

Your reaction reminds me of a former friend who was a PO.
We grew up together in the 60's. After being friends and drinking buddies for 6 years, we had one argument. Not even a real bad one, but a real disagreement as we were driving back to my house.

I got out of the car, he rolled down the window and said "Keep your nose clean if you know what's good for you".

Why did he have to bring his status as a PO into it? I'll tell you why. Because he knew I could beat him in a fight. I was one of his instructors in Martial Arts. I used to be such a sucker for LEOs that I trained them for free.

That's cowardice, and rule by might not right. There was no crime, he knew I was not a criminal. But when he got mad and could not impress me with fear of bodily harm, time to get behind the shield. Now that's pathetic.

You are a dangerous guy, and that is not a good thing, you have a badge a license to use lethal force, a gun, and a deluded sense of right and wrong.
That combined with a gang mentality, and like minded cohorts is a recipe for disaster.

A thief I once caught told me "everybody is a thief", I believe he really thought that was true. I bet all thieves believe that.

Not everyone is a criminal waiting to happen. Only a criminal would say that to rationalize his criminal life. I'd like to think most cops are legit, but you cops make it very difficult.

I hope you come to your senses some day before it's too late for you.

We're all human, that's not an excuse to be a sociopath. It just means we are imperfect and we make mistakes. As you know being a cop, civilians have to pay for their mistakes. You're the guy making sure they are brought to justice.

So give me one valid reason why you and your Blue Brothers should be exempt from prosecution when you break the law.

Ziggy

this film did not convince me that the police are terrorists. when the police tell you to do something, just do it. it's always worked for me, i don't call them names, i don't get in their face, i don't flip them off. they are doing their job, if you don't make yourself a problem to them, they will leave you alone. i guess hoodnews never got around to asking about WHY the police were called and by WHOM...was there a victim of a crime hoodnews could have talked to? was there a nieghbor that got shot or robbed that hoodnews could have talked to? maybe a nieghbor that got beat up or stabbed called the police.

Originally posted by dzonatas
To your question above, the person that they refused to report may be law enforcement. It may be their captain. Maybe they feel if their captain can get away with it then there is no where else to go but leave.

I almost forgot to add...

I know you commented on what I posted about my situation, but did you read within where I said I actually had a video of my attempt to get my kids?

The other parent already told me they felt like there is nothing can be done about the current relationship going on (not the one we had)... meaning like trapped... like immunity. The other parent's S.O. was claimed to be cop/mafia.

I didn't believe at first, of course. Thought it was just fairytales to make me feel jealous.

You think tresspassing was the only thing that came back upon me when I tried to get my kids?

Do you think going on this board and actually being open about my situation is giving up and not reporting? Obviously, there is a reason why even after that video and why all my other videos were confiscated that had evidence of what went on. They certainly didn't use the confiscated videos against the other parent's S.O. Maybe they wanted to actually "protect their own."

I know... you think I'm just making this up... but... you wondered why people don't go to the cops. I'm sure they tried.

reply to post by dzonatas


the point is, he didn't listen to them, threatened them that he would go down in a blaze of glory if they didn't give into his demands regardless if they knew the exact whereabouts of his girl friend or not. Police do NOT negotiate at ALL!

Before i replied to this post, i wanted to get a cops opinion on this. lucky enough i have a relative in law enforcement.

she said he was touting threats, which was good enough to feel that their life was in danger. they tried to bargain with him to just give up. but he didint. he made a move when the dogs came in, and lit him up when they thought he was reaching for a gun. in a cops mind, its better safe than sorry. this man had a choice, and he chose wrong.

He would of been able to talk to his woman after he was arrested. its his fault for not listening to the police at the point and time. they were not negligent. they were following their instincts because they thought their life was in danger.

If he had only listened.... instead of trying to be a hot shot.

Thats all i have to say.

Originally posted by ugie1028
If he had only listened.... instead of trying to be a hot shot.

Thats all i have to say.

Ok, you win.

My kids are still missing, and their parent.

I lose.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by dzonatas]

reply to post by commdogg


Thank you for the rational response.
I agree with almost everything you posted. I will look into Charlie, he's a good man.

I'm not some Police hating rabid idiot. I watched the entire video after I read the first few pages, I did that so I would have an understanding of the OP's thinking, and the way he presented himself to see if the video matched the statements he made.

I get it, the guy who got killed in the first clip was asking to get killed. The question remains, did he have to be killed? I think it was handled poorly to say the least.

My problem with the OP is he's not what he says he is. He has Blue disease.

Split second decisions under severe duress are unpredictable, and I don't have all the answer, nor do I claim to.

I don't wake up every day thinking about how bad Cops are. But I know for a fact some cops are complete maniacs.

The OP, may well think he's a good guy, but his statements are typical of habitual offenders. As a society we have failed the Police as much as they fail us. We know the stresses of being constantly exposed to the underbelly of life. But we ignore this and pretend it's just par for the course.

My family is Military like some families are LEO. My Father was an Army Colonel, then a Diplomat, and later an Historian. I grew up around authority, and with it comes responsibility. I know how to kill people, I have 43 years of training in Martial Arts, armed and otherwise. I have never hurt anyone much beyond a fractured jaw, or a broken nose, and that was in Kumite.

I was a bouncer in my youth at bars in NYC. I have been up close and personal with hundreds of people who were cussing me, and even swinging at me, yet somehow I managed to never go off and start whaling on somebody just from anger, or fear.

Police are at risk of going nuts as a rule in most urban areas, why can;t we look at this with a mind to remedy it.

Perhaps LEOs should have a rotation where they are on and off like the Military used to be, before we had to keep them in constant deployment.

I understand the expense and the other potential down sides of short tours of duty for street level LEOs, but difficult is better than tragic. I believe most recruits or at least some join up to fight crime and protect the citizenry. But in my experience this does not last long. First it's a brotherhood, then a paycheck, then it becomes a Cluster YKW.

The other problem is the "Cosa Nostra" and "Omerta" aspects of PDs. As you know here in NYC, we have a shake up every 20 yrs or so, and then we sweep it all under the carpet. Diversity training is useless, and rehab is almost impossible. So we wind up with the ones that "got away with it" being the brass. The cycle then repeats.

Right after 9/11 one of my relatives died in his sleep, two rookies were dispatched to take the report and wait for the transport to the coroner. One was male, the other female. We were sitting there with the body. I noticed the guy was nervous, maybe he had not been near death enough yet. I struck up a conversation about 9/11 and told them how appreciative and thankful I was for their service etc..

The guy told me he was quitting the Dept because he was freaked out by what it was really like. I asked if the crime was too much for him. He glanced at me sideways and said "Yeah, but not from the perps, from the cops". He almost started crying, and changed the subject.

I felt bad for him, but glad he saw it and was brave enough to say it.

I think we can do better. But i also feel we have to speak truth to power as much as we can.

Was the adrenalin from beating the crap out of Rodney King worth the aftermath? I don't think so, and all those guys walked.

But I also remember Twana Brawley, and how she caused one guy to blow his brains out, so yes, it's a binary problem, but we can at least help the Cops, if we can;t fix the perps.

Peace
Ziggy

reply to post by dzonatas


we were talking about what the police did in that situation, and that
situation alone.

where did your kids come into this?

I dont like to see parents being torn away from their kids, im sorry if your going through some tough times, and i wish you the best of luck to get to see them again. i apologize if i had offended you in that respect.

Best wishes, and i hope you find them!

reply to post by ugie1028


I just tried to compare perspectives...

...and terror...

Because... I can still hope. I said this awhile ago... "Because I want to see my kids again. Because I want to see them grow. Because I want to provide for them, and be there when they need. Because I want to see them get A's in class. Because I want to see them graduate. Because they are not with me and they should be. " I posted it up on a video, but I'm sure there are people in this thread that don't want to see the video since it is about message about such hope.

That guy in the first clip, honestly, looks like he lost hope. When someone feels hopeless, you can't expect them to do anything. This is what officers and psychologist tell us about such behavior:

From: Tears of a Cop: Turvey, B., "Police Officers: Control, Hopelessness, & Suicide," Knowledge Solutions Library

Hopelessness is the most motivating contributor to the suicidal mind set [1]. It is the sense that one does not have control over one's own behavior, feelings, or circumstances. It is a resignation of the self to perceived external elements. A feeling of hopelessness can be perceived by an officer from innumerable sources. It is not sudden. It grows slowly, unabated, until it becomes an insurmountable mind set.

Violanti[20] states that "When officers lose the ability to cope in normal ways, they may turn to an ultimate solution to relieve the pressure of stress". Now, that's a bit of a statement. In fact, that's what officers are trained to do. They are trained to use the ultimate solution when the situation permits. It is even arguable that officers are not trained in "normal" coping mechanisms.

Not only was the subject out of control -- so were the cops.

How do you think threating a hopeless person with dogs is going to help control them?

You spoke about a topic NOT related to the original question of IF (under THESE circumstances) would cops turn on people.

Actually I did speak within the confines of the original questions.

Like usual the cop haters do not want to talk about the topic at hand..

This is not applicable to myself for two reasons 1.) I’m not a cop hater 2.) I’m talking about the topic at hand.

MARTIAL LAW...they instead want to bring up riots and protests as THEIR bases for saying...LOOK SEE YOU GUYS WILL TURN...when thats not the case.

Now if we turn our attentions to your post (the one I originally quoted) you made no reference to martial law but did reference not turning on your own people. Therefore, it is highly logical to cite examples of law enforcement doing the exact opposite of what you say. The entire argument does not hinge on the martial law aspect but if you would turn on your people, period. Do you see the difference here? If you were to read critically, something I doubt you know how to do, you’d comprehend that martial law is not a prerequisite but simply a logical situation/example the other guy used to prove his point.

Being ordered to go shut down a protest is NOT the same as being ordered to confine ALL citizens of the U.S., shut down cities, etc...

You’re talking about martial law and don’t even know what it is. Moreover, you don’t know anything about the instances I cited, so I can now see why you are lacking the ability to compare and contrast what I’ve provided.

What is it about police haters that makes them NOT stay on track and have to find anything (regardless of how off topic) to use as their tool to complain?

This is not applicable to myself for two reasons 1.) I’m not a cop hater 2.) I’m talking about the topic at hand.

Again like most cop haters your asking me in 2009 to comment on actions of those from 1960????????????????

No. I’m not cop hater and I’m not asking you in 2009 to comment on actions of those from the 60’s. My question was asked because you exhibit an uncanny ability to selective read and misconstrue what people say, nothing more.

Yeah they were ordered to break up the PEACEFUL protest and? How does that jive with possible martial law in 2010 if ever?

They were not ordered to “break up” peaceful protests. In addition, if LEO’s were to do that to “peaceful” protesters, imagine what they would do if placed in a situation where the people weren’t so peaceful yet there were no officer safety issues involved.

Yet again your comparing black to red. They are two seperate issues no matter how you want to approach it.

You don’t get it. The issue is not if you would do it under martial law, rather, it is if you would turn on the people period. You simply don’t see this, so I encourage you to read the original questions and everything posed to you after that.

But that was the topic in which my original answer ( NO COPS AND MILITARY WOULDN'T PARTICIPATE) was based on...the idea of martial law...but AGAIN, you and many others dont wanna talk about that, you want to bring in OTHER situations that you think compare to martial law...Had I orginally been asked about protests/riots THEN THEN THEN you could bring up the past and present actions of officers at GUESS WHAT...protests and riots!

I never said anything about riots, you did. Unlike you I am very specific in what I’m saying, yet you’re all over the place. Again, you said officers and military personal would not do it, yet I’ve clearly shown an instance where it did occur. Moreover, if you were familiar with the civil rights movement and the examples I cited, you’d see many times martial law was declared, and in many instances it was declared because LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS WOULD NOT DO THEIR JOB’S.

Go back to POST, and make sure to hit a local JC or CC and take courses pertaining to community relations. Afterwards you can pick up the following: ISBN 0-13-113307-1 and read it.

Edited to add: And to disprove your claims of me being a cop hater, refer to this link posted over a month ago.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 31-12-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by watcher73


Ban the terrorist? You call them terrorists until you need them. Oh and way to go on that whole freedom of speech thing. Apparently you want that thrown out the window and only want to have people here who think like you. Good call...

Originally posted by Freqzer0
reply to post by watcher73

 

Ban the terrorist? You call them terrorists until you need them. Oh and way to go on that whole freedom of speech thing. Apparently you want that thrown out the window and only want to have people here who think like you. Good call...

I need cops like you need another hole in your head.

Psst I said that part was a joke. ie banning the terrorists.

This thread, like any involving law enforcement will always bring up heated debate and there will always be those of us who just WILL NOT see eye to eye. Its the reality of being human beings.

With that said I would like to thank all of you for posting on this thread and for your input, regardless if I agreed with it. Tomorrow starts a whole new year and I think we have reached a stalemate when it comes to our personal opinions of my career. With that I want to take a moment and apologize if I did call anyone names, not that I didn't mean too, cause I did..lol, but we as humans are emotional creatures and when we feel strongly about something we defend it. I served 6 years in Uncle Sams ARMY for OUR rights to have these debates and have different views. Thank GOD we live in a nation that still allows it.

Bottom line from my side of the fence. Everyday I wake up I TRY to do the best I can at what I am asked by YOU the citizens. I am not perfect, I am not superman, I am not a robot, I am simply a guy who decided this was what I wanted to do. Many will continue to believe that I am in this for the money, the power, to ruin others, to be a Nazi, to control, etc... Many will say I work for the dirty government and am a pawn in their game. The negative aspect of my career is that I CANNOT please everyone, I CANNOT save everyone, I CANNOT overlook everything, I CANNOT be perfect in a world of imperfection. BUT:

I can stand proud with my head held high that in my position I can help that child who is being abused, I can help that person who is being attacked, I can stop kids and adults from having drugs pushed down their throat by selling thugs, I can catch the people who rape, rob, murder, and take advantage of those who cannot help themselves. I can take the drunk driver off the road before he kills your mom/dad/family/friend, I can catch an 18 year old with marijuana who has no record...is about to go to college and cut him a break...hoping he/she realizes the choices in life are sometimes costly so think.

Yes my profession has bad apples, as does every other profession. Just remember something. Cops (no matter if they are local, county, state, or federal) come from the same place you did. We have the same problems YOU do. We are not immune to the trials and tribulations of life.

We go to work and we have to be:

A counsler, A mother, A father, A friend, A psycologist, An authority figure, A lifesaver, A desicion maker, etc...

We come home after dealing with all of societies problems to find out that we don't get a break, because now after worrying and dealing with everyone else, we have to again be:

A counsler, A mother, A father, A friend, A psycologist, An authority figure, A lifesaver, A desicion maker, etc...

Last words: If you can do better, please fill out the application and get out here on the streets and help us be better. If you have better ways of handeling the stuff we deal with, then come on, come help us. If all your going to do is second guess, but NOT do anything when you have a chance too, what is the point?

Have a great NEW YEAR all...best to all in 2010!!!!

reply to post by rcwj1975


I second your motion, and thank you for your service in the Military, and L.E.
I for one do not take for granted what you sacrifice, and what you risk.

Like you, I meant every word, but that does not mean I would not help you if you were in need while performing your job, or off duty.

A Happy New Year to all.