Where was all that 95% of UA93 wreckage?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by ATH911

 

No, only one photograph has been released that shows United colors. No one is obligated to release more photos.

Don't you think that's quite odd? 95% of a United 757 being recovered, yet only ONE photo showing only ONE piece of logo colors?

Don't you agree that evidence fits more of a staged crash since it would be pathetically easier just to plant one piece of plane debris with livery colors than having to plant dozens/hundreds of pieces of fuselage showing logo colors?

Originally posted by RipCurl
if you bothered to read the reports, you would have your answer; seeing that United Airlines owns the plane, you could have called them to find out.

Seeing your unwillingness to go to the source (United Airlines) we see how far you really are interested in finding the truth.

Are you saying that all those people recovering debris at the Shanks scene were United employees?

[edit on 30-12-2009 by ATH911]

Originally posted by ATH911


Don't you think that's quite odd? 95% of a United 757 being recovered, yet only ONE photo showing only ONE piece of logo colors?

did you miss this photo or are you just repeating things just to see your txt on the screen?

img705.imageshack.us...


What are United Airlines colors? Red white and blue. Can you name another airline that was flying that day, in the vicinity of Shanksville that has the same colors?

Don't you agree that evidence fits more of a staged crash since it would be pathetically easier just to plant one piece of plane debris with livery colors than having to plant dozens/hundreds of pieces of fuselage showing logo colors?

No, because evidene proves that it was Flight 93 that crashed there, all proved by DNA testing and the parts that were collected.


Now can you answer my question i posted prior to this: Can you point out where the NTSB has ever photographed EVERY single part of plane they are investing the accident/crash site for.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by RipCurl
if you bothered to read the reports, you would have your answer; seeing that United Airlines owns the plane, you could have called them to find out.

Seeing your unwillingness to go to the source (United Airlines) we see how far you really are interested in finding the truth.

Are you saying that all those people recovering debris at the Shanks scene were United employees?

[edit on 30-12-2009 by ATH911]

why would you assume that from my post? Why would UA employees be on scene during a CRIME investigation?

There were NTSB, FBI and local law enforcement who were there. What do you think the NTSB does when they collect the pieces? They catalog where it was found and place it in containers for further examination.

Can you point out where the employees of any airlines were on scene to collect plane parts during an NTSB investigation?

Originally posted by RipCurl

did you miss this photo or are you just repeating things just to see your txt on the screen?
img705.imageshack.us...

Um, that's the ONE photo with the ONE piece of logo debris I'm talking about.

Can you name another airline that was flying that day, in the vicinity of Shanksville that has the same colors?

I'm not aware that anyone saw a plane with United colors in the vicinity.

No, because evidene proves that it was Flight 93 that crashed there, all proved by DNA testing and the parts that were collected.

Nice side-step. Would you care to go back and actually answer my question?

Now can you answer my question i posted prior to this: Can you point out where the NTSB has ever photographed EVERY single part of plane they are investing the accident/crash site for.

Can you point out where I ever said they did?

Originally posted by RipCurl
why would you assume that from my post? Why would UA employees be on scene during a CRIME investigation?

Sounded like that from your confusing post.

There were NTSB, FBI and local law enforcement who were there.

And they claim all but 5% of a Boeing 757 was recovered there. All I'm asking is where was it all before cleanup? Didn't realize this would be such a difficult question if almost all of a 757 was recovered. Seems like it would be pathetically easy to answer.

Originally posted by ATH911

Um, that's the ONE photo with the ONE piece of logo debris I'm talking about.

Yes one photo showing that it was a United Airlines Plane. What more do you want?

Can you provide an incident where the NTSB has released the photos OF EVERY crash investigation that they've investigated? And photographed EVERY single part was photographed.

If you can't answer the above, why are you expecting the NTSB to do so for Flight 93.

The investigation by the NtSB, FBI and local law enforcement was enough for United Airlines, who owns the plane. If United Airlines is happy with the answer, and didn't need any additional phots, WHY are you demanding for more photos?

I'm not aware that anyone saw a plane with United colors in the vicinity.

Then explain why the part found has united airlines colors.

Nice side-step. Would you care to go back and actually answer my question?

I did answer your question.

Now can you answer my question i posted prior to this: Can you point out where the NTSB has ever photographed EVERY single part of plane they are investing the accident/crash site for.

Can you point out where I ever said they did?

Your asking for more photos. Im asking you to provide photos for other NTSB investigations of other crash sites so that we can see why you're putting UNDUE requirements for anyone who disagrees with you, for more photos.

Provide more photos of TWA 800 where they photographed every single plane part.

Oh wait, not that many were released.

Well not that many were released for Flight 93, SIMPLY because MOST of the parts found were less than the SIZE of one's hand. The fuselage, a wheel part and some other parts that were bigger, weren't the majority of parts in those sizes found; they were in the minority.




AND AS STATED. YOU want to confirm that its United Airlines 93, then you only have one company to talk to. United Airlines.

Its their plane, wouldn't you think they be concerned that the plane they received wasn't actually theirs?

Originally posted by ATH911

And they claim all but 5% of a Boeing 757 was recovered there. All I'm asking is where was it all before cleanup? Didn't realize this would be such a difficult question if almost all of a 757 was recovered. Seems like it would be pathetically easy to answer.

Yes that is what is claimed and that is what is supported by the NTSB. If you want to confirm with them what was found, you can file an FOIA request with them or contact United Airlines.


Im still wondering why you think that every plane part must be photographed to prove to conspiracists that it was Flight 93, when the NTSB, FBI, United Airlines and tons of law enforcement personell, who were there to collect the plane parts, attest that it was Flight 93.



why dont you give us a reason as to why you think that a 500 yard area of a crash scene cannot support 95% of the plane parts that were recovered?

Thought this was interesting for sure. Especially the USGS data.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by mikelee]

Originally posted by RipCurl
Yes one photo showing that it was a United Airlines Plane. What more do you want?

So basically what you are saying is that if people want to stage a plane crash of a large plane, part of the evidence they only need to fool everybody is just one piece of logo debris thrown on the ground and photograph it?

Can you provide an incident where the NTSB has released the photos OF EVERY crash investigation that they've investigated? And photographed EVERY single part was photographed.

As I've said before, where did I ever claim they did?

If you can't answer the above, why are you expecting the NTSB to do so for Flight 93.

I'm not. I'm just saying it's extremely odd 95% of a United 757 was recovered from a site, yet only ONE photo of only ONE piece of logo debris was taken. Wouldn't you agree?

WHY are you demanding for more photos?

If you believe Flight 93 crashed there, why do you care if I do, or not?

Then explain why the part found has united airlines colors.

Um, because some people want us to believe a Unitied plane crashed there, so they had to produce a least one photo of one piece of logo debris to fool people like you?

I did answer your question.

No you didn't liar.

Your asking for more photos.

No, I was asking you don't you think it was extremely odd officials could only produce one photo of one piece of debris from a crash of a 757 where 95% was allegedly covered.

Well not that many were released for Flight 93, SIMPLY because MOST of the parts found were less than the SIZE of one's hand

I thought it was the size of a phone book? I wish you skeptics were make up your minds.

AND AS STATED. YOU want to confirm that its United Airlines 93, then you only have one company to talk to. United Airlines.

That's not what this thread is about. Go back and READ and then COMPREHEND.

September 24, 2001
FBI finished with Pennsylvania crash site probe (CNN)

archives.cnn.com...

"The FBI announced Monday that its investigation of the site where a hijacked jet slammed into a field here is complete and that 95 percent of the plane was recovered."

Therefore, in a quick 13 days, the FBI not only recovered all of the wreckage, they were able to reconstruct the airplane and determine that 95% of it had been recovered? Yeah...whatever.

"Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline"

The evidence was turned over to United Airlines, instead of being examined by the FBI? Maybe the FBI should have just taken a vacation at this time and allowed United to gather the evidence as well. If you're not going to examine the evidence, why the hell are you gathering it? Where are photos of the reconstructed plane, since 95% of it was recovered?

But wait...there's more.

May 12, 2002
Hallowed Ground (Washington Post)

www.washingtonpost.com...

"Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."

So where were the bodies?

"As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact."

The bodies were cremated on impact, huh? Here is some information on the temperature and time it takes to cremate just one body. And this guy is a coroner? Wow!

"Cremating at the optimum temperature (1400-1800 degrees), the average weighted remains takes 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Several more hours may be required before the cremated remains are available to the family."

www.nfda.org...

Moving right along...

"Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total."

How did the human body tissue make its way to the nearby woods and onto trees when the aircraft allegedly buried itself into the ground? Only 8% of human tissue was found, but 95% of aircraft parts were found? Do you really expect one to believe that a whopping 95% of the airplane allegedly survived temperatures which were able to cremate human bodies? Assuming, of course, you believe the rubbish of cremation on impact.

"But the shock wave from Flight 93, a few hundred yards away, spewed debris through the woods with such force that it blew out all the windows and doors and shook the foundation on Barry's place. It turned the whole Hoover property into a cemetery where human remains were still being found months later."

Again, how were human remains found several hundred yards away when the aircraft allegedly buried itself into the ground?

Conclusion: pursuant to the numerous contradictions reported by the mainstream media and the local coroner and the lack of physical evidence presented, it is difficult, if not impossible, to believe a commercial Boeing 757 crashed at the Shanksville site.

Your average pre-schooler could have concocted a more believable story than this debacle.

Originally posted by RipCurl
Yes that is what is claimed and that is what is supported by the NTSB. If you want to confirm with them what was found, you can file an FOIA request with them or contact United Airlines.

Simple photographs of the scene can't confirm?!?

Im still wondering why you think that every plane part must be photographed to prove to conspiracists that it was Flight 93

I'm still wondering why you think I think that.

why dont you give us a reason as to why you think that a 500 yard area of a crash scene cannot support 95% of the plane parts that were recovered?

Um, where did I ever suggest that?!?

Originally posted by ATH911

So basically what you are saying is that if people want to stage a plane crash of a large plane, part of the evidence they only need to fool everybody is just one piece of logo debris thrown on the ground and photograph it?

No, because this is not what I stated. Would you stop assuming something that isn't even being debated.

Again, show me an NTSB investigation where they photographed every single part of a plane because they had conspiracists breathing down their neck to make sure that the photos are of the plane they claim that crashed there.


The onus is on you to provide proof that it wasn't Flight 93, and you're batting 0 right now since you cannot dimiss the NTSB reports (including FDR And CVR), the reports from Local law enforcement, DNA identification and eye witnesses who saw the plane crash



So, I ask again: Please provide an investigation that the NTSB has done (narrow it down for you, a terrorist one) on a crash scene, where each and every part of plane was photographed.


Even TWA 800, 95% of he plane was found but not every single photogaph of every plane part was taken and/or released.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal


Your average pre-schooler could have concocted a more believable story than this debacle.

nice argument from incredulity. not only did you misrepresent the claims, but also misrepresented what actually happened.


but nice to see that you are a no-planer

Originally posted by RipCurl
No, because this is not what I stated.

Then what did you mean by "What more do you want?"

That's seems to imply that one photo is all you need to believe a United plane crashed there.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by RipCurl
No, because this is not what I stated.

Then what did you mean by "What more do you want?"

That's seems to imply that one photo is all you need to believe a United plane crashed there.

I meant, if a photo of the airplane part that has United Airlines colors on it, AND REPORTS BY:

NTSB,
FBI
Local law enforcement
Wally Miller,
eye witnesses
FDR
CVR
United Airlines

are not enough to confirm that its Flight 93, WHAT MORE do you want?

At this point you are ignoring every fact and going with your own expecations.

Originally posted by RipCurl
not only did you misrepresent the claims, but also misrepresented what actually happened.

Curious planehugger, which parts did he misrepresent?

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by RipCurl
not only did you misrepresent the claims, but also misrepresented what actually happened.

Curious planehugger, which parts did he misrepresent?

You can do without the name calling, as i haven't called you anything.



Wally Millers quote for instance. Nice that he left out the rest of the quote:

Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service." As a funeral director, Miller says, he is honored and humbled to preside over what has become essentially an immense cemetery stretching far into the scenic wooded mountain ridge. He considers it the final resting place of 40 national heroes.


www.archive.org...

He stopped being a coroner (a person investigates HOW a person died), since he ALREADY knew how the people died.

THIS IS a direct misrepresentation of what he was stating, and why he stated.

why there were no bodies? Simple. WHAT do you think a person who was subjected to a 500 mph impact into the ground with fire an explosion would look like?

Of course this is another misrepresentation, because, this was assuming that there would be "whole" body parts (like at least a whole body, if not torsos, head arms etc), but body PARTS were found.


Truthers love to use this type of tactic, to obfuscate what was really stated, and in what context it was stated in.






[edit on 30-12-2009 by RipCurl]

[edit on 30-12-2009 by RipCurl]

Strange...

After the Space Shuttle disaster in which those bodies were subjected to far greater speeds & forces than that of the mysterious "flight 93" ever could reach and then crashed into the ground, investigators found skulls, bones (some intact) and aircraft (a space ship actually) parts etc.

However, in the case of Shanksville PA where an airliner crashed there seems to be a different case of "facts" in which I for one, do not believe.

Originally posted by mikelee
Strange...

After the Space Shuttle disaster in which those bodies were subjected to far greater speeds & forces than that of the mysterious "flight 93" ever could reach and then crashed into the ground, investigators found skulls, bones (some intact) and aircraft (a space ship actually) parts etc.

It didn't crash. it burnt up upon re-entry after explosion.

Please do not compare two very different circumstances.


However, thanks for neglecting that they did find body parts (not big parts, small parts). They did find partial skulls, fingers, bones and the like.

Edit:

www.post-gazette.com...

Miller said he had identified 12 of the victims through dental records and fingerprints. He is refusing to release the names of those victims, saying he does not want to upset their families.

www.archive.org...

As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by RipCurl]