Sorry, Vegans: Brussels Sprouts Like to Live, Too

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


What a pity you tainted such information with such a retarded title.

I am not even vegetarian, but pathetic.

reply to post by gusan

This scientific study does not indicate that the plant feels the pain.
All it does is that it shows a reaction.

If I put wanter in a container and then I let the container heat up at hight temperature the water evetualy in the container will react and make bubles to tell me it's hurting.

Conclusion water does not like hot temperatures, it knows what I'm doing, and it will punish you if you stick your hand into it because it's defending it's self.

Water can defend it's self by freezing also, it will make a shield skin out of ice to defend it's self so it's harder to break. Water must be aware.

Or isn't it just a reaction without feelings?

Big deal betwen reactions and perciving reactions.
Big deal when it comes to brains.
I'm sorry but reacting to something does not conclude self awarenes.

Ugh, well done OP - mission accomplished. Another wank fest for those on both sides.

I pray for the .. No actually, I don't pray, that's silly.. I *hope* for the day a topic like this can be discussed without the inherent BS that is brought to it from eagerness to shock by those yumming at steaks and emotion for change by those smiling at dandylions.

nah, never happen.

reply to post by Ha`la`tha

I don't want to make a god topic out of this thread but everything seems to behave like it needs to. Plants, other things as well. Maybe they were designed to do that from the start. Everything seems to have a logic.
The universe has laws and defence mechanisms in every little detail.
So I'm guessing things are ment to do what they do not because they are self aware but becase there is a blue print in everything.

The sun is providing life on earth, it's doing it without a reason from it's perspective because it's not an entity.

Why will a virus attack a cell, because it is self aware ? And our antibodies
will defend the cell, why because the antibodies are self aware? it's simple logic, no they are not self aware, it's just what they do, they react to the virus because somehow it's what they are designed to do, same as plants.

I forgot to make the observation that the OP is arguing for a moral equivalence for plants and animals. Therefore they conclude that because vegetarians eat plants then logically they should also eat animals. Even accepting the assumed moral equivalence for the sake of argument, surely the logical conclusion would not be that vegetarians should eat animals but that no one should eat plants or animals?

Otherwise, they would be arguing that inflicting needless pain is morally ok. Maybe that is what they are arguing?

Ah, the old "how many lemons died for your lemonade", only this time taken to a whole new level, a scientific one. Nothing new under the sun.

While I do agree on the fact that all life is sacred, plants included, I have to point out that plants are a very different kind of "alive" than you and me and all animal kingdom. Sure they respond to stimuli, they protect themselves against aggressions, they might be even conscious (I believe all life is on one level or another) and they're definitely intelligent, on a evolutionary way and scale. All life is.

But I chose the lesser evil, and since I said all life is sacred, including mine , I do have to eat something, and plants it is.

Now let's looks at what exactly we eat from plants. Fruits, and I mean fruits in the biological sense of the word, so including most vegetables, were intended by plants to be eaten by animals. Not only eating fruits and nuts does not harm the plant in any way, but it actually helps their purpose of spreading the seeds.

And then we eat grains. Sure the plants get killed in the process of harvesting, but it's at the end of their reproduction cycle, shortly before the plant would die of natural causes, so to say. Even more, it can be argued that the grain producing weeds have pretty much conquered the world with our help, which makes one wonder if we're exploiting plants or it's rather a kind of symbiotic relationship and the plants want to be "exploited" in order to gain more territory.

I recommend everyone to watch this brilliant talk about this subject, it's really an eye opener and it also talks about sustainable agriculture in a way you probably never thought of before:

A Plant's Eye-View

In conclusion, there is no way you could ever convince me that eating plants is morally just as wrong as eating animals. But I'm sure you don't believe that yourself.

If I gave you a kitten (or a horse or a whale) and let's say a lettuce and ask you to kill one of the two, we both know what you would choose.

Don't try to convince others of something you can't possibly believe in yourself

reply to post by pepsi78


Boiling water is a physics reaction, we are talking about bacterial reaction, about a plant recognising a specific signal or individual as evil the moment she walks into the room..could be some chemichal rcognition i dont know (se Baxters experiments on youtube). The plant reacts to the intention of evil, also to the evil but most amazing is the fact that it reacts to human intentions. Now, that is feeling.
In any case, on a moral level we humans are aware of animals suffering, we KNOW this for sure, if some day science proofs also plants are hurting we will have to take a stand later.
Today i am not a vegetarian but i would like to be, both for moral and health reasons. My daughter is, i suport her 100% i am the chief in the family and i cook.

And one more thing: instead of talking about the sufferings and sorrows of carrots and Brussels sprouts, maybe you should be more concerned about the systematic destruction of ancient forests in order to make room for intensive farming and pastures.

If plants are sentient, I'm sure a tree that has lived for hundreds of years in some cases is smarter than a carrot that lives for one season. Not to mention a lot more valuable to their ecosystem.

reply to post by Wallachian


Amazing video on TED.com i use to visit the site but missed this one. Thanks!

reply to post by gusan


You're most welcome, I love TED, and that is one of the most interesting talks I've seen there. I was dying to share it actually

As a vegetarian, I would really like to see such ideas of sustainable animal farming implemented on a large scale. I'm not opposed to other people killing and eating animals, I believe we should all have the freedom of choice. What I am opposed to is factory farming and the way it treats animals and destroys environments and wastes resources.

Originally posted by '___'omino
Is there an expert in the house who could turn into a plant so we can see what it is like?

. . . . Anyone?

Once again, EVERYONE IGNORED the most intelligent response.

Are people here so blind? '___'omino, I don't always agree with you, but you've made the most intelligent statement of the week (at the least).

Bravo, bravo. And star. AND WHY ISN'T ANYONE ELSE STARRING?!

Enjoy the never-ending pointlessness.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Great post! Thanks for starting this discussion!

Well, I went mostly vegetarian about 20 years ago (but am not 100% vegetarian, for example when my body craves iron, I reluctantly eat meat) for moral reasons.

Then, after studying homeoapthy for a year, I realized that all plants also have more of a "spirit" than we realize....they have personalities! (The personality of the plant species comes out on the homeopathic proving....it's quite fascinating.)

I read about frutarians (they eat only fruits and nuts from plants), and I seriously gave thought to becoming a fruitarian only. Eat only the gifts of the trees and plants...and not the plants themselves. So, I might do that....I wouldn't eat the plants themselves, but rather just their gifts to the world....fruits. And tomatoes. Zucchinis. Nuts. Etc...

I might try it for a month to see what happens!

Thanks again for the discussion starter. It's nice to see diverse topics on ATS.

I Think Wallachian is 100% right. The next question for me is, how you can have a dog or a cat and at the same time you eat "cow children" every day at McD?

Is it probably possible that meat eaters exactly feel, that something is inconsistent in there picture of the world. Maybe the moral astpect of a burger hurts all the time you eat one. So lets say vegans are killing plants so its okey when i LET kill YOUNG animals every day for "JummyJummy". Can you tell me that this is necessary?!

Why dont cook your dog? So, now ask again why some vegetarians getting agressive if you are so ignorant to all!?

I'm 1.94 Meters, 95 Killograms and very healty @34Years, i don't eat animals since 21 years now, so tell me what my problem should be exactly?!

If you eat a egg or two pee week and some nuts and a bit soya or chickpeas. YOU NEVER NEED MEAT TO LIVE HEALTHY.

I love meat and always will! I never understood the whole "don't eat meat" thing....it is wierd if you ask me. The whole theory behind it is bizarre. Should we make animals who eat other animals vegetarians as well? Isn't this what is called the circle of life?
If plants can feel and know what is going on and try to protect themselves from attack, then their whole theory goes out the window. What will they come up with now???? Whatever they come up with will be bull no matter what. What is wrong with the world today?

Originally posted by watcher73
In response to the moral issue: Are there any animals that live for only a season, roughly 4-5 months and then die anyway?

I suppose the length of a life denotes the quality of a life?

Something that I've never understood about Vegans - most Vegans are "Pro Choice".... isn't that a bit of a contradiction in their philosophy?

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Thank you for posting this. I;ve always felt that plants were sentient beings and deserving the same respect we give animal life. Why vegans think animals "feel" more than plants do has always eluded me. If you're going to embrace the earth, love ALL of it.

Since you can't possibly be proposing that we don't eat any foods, I suppose your argument is that since all creatures feel, there is no point in distinguishing them. If that is your argument, then what stops you from eating people?

-rrr

Originally posted by watcher73
I'm afraid that until you put up evidence of some sort of brain or nervous system (even if not the type we are used to seeing)

The Secret Life Of Plants

Buy the above book and read it - Very informative and somewhat eye opening.

Everything is aware, including water and rocks. This is no suprise that plants are alive too and have a form of perception. We ALL eminate from the same source of energy.

I was at a lecture where somebody from a Scottish University proved that carrots suffer shock when ripped from the ground.

I know that the Jains in India don't eat root vegetables, like onions and carrots. Maybe they know an ancient knowledge that has been lost in our world today.

I remember watching a video about the Kogi Indians of South America, where during a priest ceromony, intructions where given not to cut off branches from mango or avacado trees, those trees feel pain, 'it is like cutting off a human arm or a leg'.

That leaves the question what can we eat without causing suffering? Fruit?

I watched a David Icke video, where he stated at one point in our past, the earth was in a perfect energy balance, creatures did not need to feed off each other. All of our energy was supplied from the sun and our surroundings. Some Yogi's in India have perfected that balance and do not eat or drink (see video's on You Tube). And that balance is going to be restored soon over the next few years.

Originally posted by pantherstar

Originally posted by watcher73
I'm afraid that until you put up evidence of some sort of brain or nervous system (even if not the type we are used to seeing)

The Secret Life Of Plants

Buy the above book and read it - Very informative and somewhat eye opening.

So informative that you have informed us of nothing the entire thread.