If youre reading this, youve failed.

This is a very interesting topic indeed.
I swear everytime I read a thread it relates to Zen: and the art of motorcycle maintenance. One of its main topics is the problem of technology. (and how people subconsciously run from it)

Technology could be implemented to really BOOST everything around us.
That would take more control however
Unless . . .
Start working on it from a person to person basis?
we all have the ability to grow amazing organic hydroponic vegetables (EVEN STEALTHY LEGAL OR NOT)
Make it a point to go outside more! (maybe when there isn't 5 feet of snow on the ground.)
Etc Etc

This is the first year I'm taking 'new years resolutions' seriously
Massive overhaul en route
BEEP BEEP BEEP

Thanks for the thread
-J

Well I will step up and enjoy the thread for what it is.

Can I call you Henry David Thoreau? very Walden-like

Yes I do enjoy my technology but I balance it with nature. I read into the OP's post and while I am not so crazy about the 'you've failed' line I think the message is sound. Maybe we need to take a step outside sometimes and stop worrying so damn much.

I am with ya OP...that's why I go on hikes..as Henry himself said...

"I went into the forest because I wanted to live deliberately"

See ya around OP...maybe in the forest someday

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


I had to chuckle a little, while reading your post.

Yes, it is truly amazing what you realize if you get out and hike/climb/bike. Everytime I go on expedition, I dont want to come back. I want to stay. Maybe it's instinct, or maybe it's fascination, but I feel like thats where Im meant to be.

The more you learn about different environments, the more you can appreciate it. Im sure youve been hiking KYOZERO, and thought about which plants are edible as you are walking by. Or the plants you can name, that kind of stuff.
Knowing how to be prepared for that environment, also seems to humble me. If I am in the mountains, I know that a storm could show up unexpectedly. Nature is in control. All you can do, is prepare.


To answer one of my own questions, yes I think I could live that way.

reply to post by '___'omino


I have that book, on my shelf. It belongs to my fiance'. You just gave me a great reason to read it, finally.

Im making a resolution this year too. I am going to try to avoid processed/pasturized food. The more you study it, the more it scares you. The stuff we consume is sterile, and terrible for our bodies.
Also, the mistreating of animals is playing a factor in my decision.

I never thought I would be one of "those" people, but I guess I am.

Originally posted by Dumbass
reply to post by InertiaZero

 

LOL first ofall Im not offended at all.

but to answer your questions:

Do you think you could live without your technology?

I could but i would still like to have fire to cookmy meat tt i caught with a weapon. my human body is just not strong enough to kill for meat everytime with my bare hands.

Do you know how to start a fire without a lighter, or a match or anything else? Do you know how to make a weapon with ordinary natural resources?

Do you think technology is used for the wrong reasons?

reasons are opinions, the one who is using it will never see it as wrong reason, the one who it is used on will always see it s wrong reason

I don't really agree.. Reasons might be opinions, but a sound reason is something that is necessary and/or needed for our survival. Today, our technology is abusing that purpose. There are so many things that are not necessary. What you basically need is water, food, and shelter. That's it.

Today, our technology and society is built upon us working our asses off, which means straining our mind and bodies to work for somebody else to become rich and powerful, while we only get what we need to survive, and a little extra so we can buy some stuff to distract our minds (like TV and movies blah blah), so that we do not see that all this is, is payed slavery, and, the ones making the movies and tvs are also becoming rich and powerful. We are being used as a resource here..

And even after all your work, sometimes it's not enough, because we need to pay for stuff we don't even know why we pay it, and what we pay for them is more than what we gain. What we fail to see is, that even the simplest of tasks, are necessary. It doesn't make sense that someone running after a ball in a stadium wins millions, while someone who keeps the streets clean for everyone else to walk, or someone who distributes food, barely gets any money at all. And the way we got to this, is simply technology.. Everything that you can see on television, wins great money and is seen as a great value, while the ones who do the actual dirty work that is necessary for our survival, rarely get noticed.

In short, I completely agree with the opening post..

Edit: What I forgot to mention is, that when survival is a low priority because there are more than enough resources, we should be focusing on growth. Most people think we are growing, because we are advancing in technology, but that's simply false. By all this "growth" we are creating more and more problems. And instead of solving them, we actually look the other way and pretend it's not there, and want to keep growing anyway, even though we know that it'll bite us in the ass later.. We basically need to stop our current technology advancements. I mean, what other technological feats do we need right now? We need to focus on resolving the world problems first, and after that, we go one step further in technology. When that is done, there might be another problem arising, which we need to take care off. This is the way it should've been in the first place but now, I think it's too late for this.. Our problems and our technology are coherent, so to get rid of the problems, we need to get rid of a big part of our technology, and we are not willing to do that...

[edit on 27-12-2009 by vasaga]

reply to post by vasaga


Star. Thank heavens.
Youre right! How many people COULD start a fire, find shelter, know what to eat, find potable water? Not a lot. Not at all. We rely on these machines entirely, to do this for us.

I was hoping someone would come and back me up here. Im not being idealistic, Im trying to be real. We are off-balance.

Thats exactly the point I was trying to get across. We dont NEED any of this crap. It's excess.

You cant even talk to some people. Simply because their lives are so wrapped up in this ILLUSION of what is important.
Ive seen men in tears because their sports team did not win. Ive seen peeple's days ruined because they will be missing a TV show. I have witnessed humans actually missing, and pining for inanimate objects.
You cannot "miss your old cell phone/car/tv".

We ARE paid slaves. You save for a new HDTV. You save for a new Lexus. These THINGS are a status. Status is control.

We have to find balance.

Originally posted by InertiaZero
If you are reading this, youve failed.

I've succeeded for the exact reason you've stated I failed, this thread will die in my memory completely, unless people reply, and keep replying, I'll delete it off my subscribed list within two weeks.

Interesting premise, but ultimately, it is up to the person to think for themselves.

Think for yourself, free of bias, use neutrality, instead of picking either side of a false two-sided dichotomy.

Truth and Lies of 9/11 : Mike Ruppert, C.I.A. Drug Running, and Your Government

Originally posted by InertiaZero
Do you think you could live without your technology?

Quite easily, I do not have Tom-Tom, G.P.S., or a cell phone anymore.

Why would I want to be electronically stalked?

On top of this I have to pay to be electronically stalked.

Screw that.

Is Your Government Stalking You? Stalk Them Back Via Verichip Purchasing...

Originally posted by InertiaZero
Do you think you would be better without it?

I am better without electronics, I read more books in a day, than most read in a year, electronics are a tool, to be used, access information, and make life more enhanced, but only where the individual wants their lives to be enhanced, otherwise it's a detriment, I am also better because of it.

Going To Your Public Library, Gathering Open Source Intelligence, and Surviving

Originally posted by InertiaZero
Does it control you?

Not one bit, I control it, a flip of the switch, and it's turned off.

I've gone days without being online, six months now without a cell phone, and about that long without electricity, before I got evicted.

Then again, the offline world is just as tracked as the online world, find the middle ground.

The World-Wide Web of Surveillance of Your Online/Offline Activities

Originally posted by InertiaZero
Do you think technology is used for the wrong reasons?

It can be, by both Government, and the person who does not want Government interference, just ask Ted Kaczynski, he was a Technoanarchist, according to the F.B.I.

It started with electronics back when the radio and television were used for propaganda purposes, on both sides of the war during WWII, and it never stoped even though the Nazi's were defeated, now it's just increased to every bit of electronics as a means of covert intelligence gathering, through corporate entities, on behalf of Uncle Sam.

Divide and Conquer : Political Ideology of the Power Elite, Selling The Peace, War Is The Motive

Movies are used for wrong, just as much as they are used for right.

Does 'Avatar' Contain Hidden Messages?

Just as much as truth is the first victim in a conflict.

Truth : The First Victim, The Last to Be Un-Buried, Never to Rest...

Again, electronics are used for the wrong reasons, but perspective is the key.

No Place To Hide : Face Recognition, Information Data-Mining, and Loss of Anonymity

So, have I failed, or succeeded, I guess that's up to perception to decide?

I know what I think.

[edit on 27-12-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Im sorry you got evicted. Thats very rough.

The title of the thread was meant to be clever. It does not mean you have failed at anything. It is pointing out the irony of an anti-techno message, brought to you by high-speed internet.

What I am trying to say, is there is a lack of balance. I might have came across one sided, and myopic. But that is just to get the readers of my thread thinking, and in the mindset to reply to the post with their thoughts.

Those are some really good links you posted.

Nah.

I went for a walk and it's a beautiful day.

I made it through a day without being angry, hungry disappointed or hurt.

I found something nice that everyone should see.


(ah crap, the links won't work )


Just google Desmond Tutu on the Late Late show.

It's worth watching if you want something to see that talks about the fallacy of failure.

Peace baby!



[edit on 27-12-2009 by badgerprints]

[edit on 27-12-2009 by badgerprints]

reply to post by InertiaZero


I do hope you know I meant no sarcasm either...I do agree alot with what you say...we need to get outdoors

-Kyo

Originally posted by InertiaZero
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Im sorry you got evicted. Thats very rough.

The title of the thread was meant to be clever. It does not mean you have failed at anything. It is pointing out the irony of an anti-techno message, brought to you by high-speed internet.

What I am trying to say, is there is a lack of balance. I might have came across one sided, and myopic. But that is just to get the readers of my thread thinking, and in the mindset to reply to the post with their thoughts.

Those are some really good links you posted.

Why are you sorry I got evicted?

I'm not.

It happened, I'm no longer living in an apartment anymore, and I'll only be moving faster now.

I noticed the irony, didn't you notice mine, in that everything was both sides?

I never thought you were myopic, one-sided a tad, but I never said that until now, but never myopic, and balance was what I was going for, showing I saw and still do see the balance.

Thank you for your compliment on my threads, I walk the middle path, some call it fence-sitting, I call it balancing out both sides, which are both wrong.

A false dichotomy of two choices, Republican or Democrat, Conservative or Liberal, and the myopic of the lesser of two evils, is still evil, is it not?

I'm registered as an Independent, because I see both sides as wrong, not because the people usually picking a side are wrong, but because they are being played against each other by falsely being mislead to believe their side is the right side, and the other side is the wrong side, they should be picking their side, freely.

When reading about, seeing, or being stuck within any conflict, do you know who I see is to blame?

Both sides.

When reading about, seeing, or being stuck within any conflict, do you know who I see are the victims?

Humanity.

When reading about, seeing, or being stuck within any conflict, do you know who I see who dies?

Everyone.

Humanity has lost the art of being human, via being mislead to believe that one side is right over the other side, when both sides are usually correct, and wrong simultaneously.

The Christians were just as wrong as the Emperor who threw them to the lions.

Each gladiator being pitted against the other in the Flavian Amphitheatre, were both right and wrong, right for fighting for survival, wrong for taking the other mans life for selfishly seeking to live and choosing another mans death.

The man who chooses to live, without taking anothers life, and standing up to the false system, is the true hero, Spartacus was a hero, Leonidas was a hero, and Jesus was a hero.

Balance, Yin and Yang, and harmony, all things which are easily taken away and equally hard fought to maintain.

[edit on 27-12-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by vasaga



First of all:

Oxford dictionary: technology

• noun (pl. technologies) 1 the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes. 2 the branch of knowledge concerned with applied sciences.

we are not talking about our gadgetsas mobiles, laptops, lighters, matches. We are talking about not having knowledge about our surroundings, if we are talking about living without technolgy.

I know this is mostly seen as "technology"

If I'm making fire by clashing firestones or create friction between wood in order to get it glow if used in the right way with the right wood ... and so on. Im not experienced neither a dumbass so go figure.

We are talking about living in a world where our knowledge cannot be applied and we are in a world where everything we experience is a first time experience.

As humans I think we can coop, just because we are constanty striving for knowledge to apply it on our surroundings.

Originally posted by vasaga
Do you know how to start a fire without a lighter, or a match or anything else? Do you know how to make a weapon with ordinary natural resources?

Do you think technology is used for the wrong reasons?

reasons are opinions, the one who is using it will never see it as wrong reason, the one who it is used on will always see it s wrong reason

I don't really agree.. Reasons might be opinions, but a sound reason is something that is necessary and/or needed for our survival. Today, our technology is abusing that purpose. There are so many things that are not necessary. What you basically need is water, food, and shelter. That's it.

[edit on 27-12-2009 by vasaga]

Do you know how to start a fire without a lighter, or a match or anything else?

It is pretty simple; Know = knowledge and start = applying; applying materials with known (as most would call "scientific") igniting characteristics would be implying technology wouldn't it?

What you basically need is water, food, and shelter. That's it.

I totally agree with that, we only use technology to process that.

I'm totally aware that some obvious applied technologies are not mainly used to provide basic elements needed for life as we started. But in our history of exploring our environment, passing obstacles with "our" technology, we are kind of at a dead end in our numbers. We need to use technology if we ant to continue our growth as humanrace. In sea, sky, ground, virtual space or, doesn't matter how...

If "we" decide that growth is not possible in our current environment we got the need to depopulate or we need to shape the earth in a totally different way that it is now done by us. Or do we all need to get vegaterians if needed.

The problems of society can't be put on technology; the class distinction is not a result of technology, it is a thought of a human. Ok technology is used to get the history we got now. the overuse of resources, the dumbness of our masstechnology, I agree we are desperate for a solution.

We don't need to get rid of a great deal of our technology we just need to change it so that it doesn't need to use all the resources it needs now. We need to change its users. You need to change society as a whole. Think about this, you want to live with or without a wheel?

The question the OP asks in the post and the title of the thread are different. I hate the way people throw around the word "fail" in a slangy 4chann-ish way, but acutually it says something important about culture...specifically, modern western culture. What it is telling us is that we increasingly evaluate ourselves and our lives in terms of "success" and "failure," as a narrative event with a storyline, victory, and loss.

We need to make stories about ourselves to make our lives meaningful and thus worth living -- humanity has been doing it since at least the last ice age -- but these days I think we have gone too far.

Look at the way people spend their time, constantly plugged into narratives of various sorts, be they books, movies, games, etc. A century or two ago, the average joe might have read a book or gone to a show now and then, but most of his life was "non-narrative": he'd just be hoeing beans in a field, say, just doing his thing, without any sense of it having an "epic" (another overused but telling word) narrative significance at all. "It is what it is," wise old stoop-sitters around the world would often say.

Some leaves skitttering in the wind, making love, looking up into a dazzling autumn sky and contemplating the interplay of the high stratus clouds with lower, more volumetric cumuloids, tossing a ball around with a kid or a dog...the moments, the little things, these flashes of beauty, they gave meaning...but they were not connected in a neat little narrative string of beads where life was about "win" or "fail". By forgetting this, we are psychologically damaging ourselves in ways that are almost too terrible to contemplate.

[edit on 12/27/09 by silent thunder]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Well, I guess I didnt see the same cleverness, on your post!
Maybe, Im not as clever as I thought.

I dont think that believing both sides are wrong, is fence sitting. I would think fence sitting is more a person who is waiting to see who is wrong. If you have decided that both sides of the coin are wrong, then that puts you in a different catagory.

The last part of your post is very insightful.

The man who chooses to live, without taking anothers life, and standing up to the false system, is the true hero, Spartacus was a hero, Leonidas was a hero, and Jesus was a hero.
Balance, Yin and Yang, and harmony, all things which are easily taken away and equally hard fought to maintain.

Originally posted by KyoZero
reply to post by InertiaZero

 

I do hope you know I meant no sarcasm either...I do agree alot with what you say...we need to get outdoors

-Kyo

Nope. No sarcasm here. I love hiking, and being outdoors. Western North Carolina is one of the most wonderful places on the planet. I spend alot of time there, backcountry camping. I would one day like to thru-hike the APP. Trail. I would like to start in Maine.

reply to post by silent thunder


I feel weird, because this is my third post in row, but I wanted to address this.

So you think that we feel more of a need for purpose, or a dramaticized life?
Like how people blog often. Are you saying they are self-important?

Or maybe these moments that you mention. Playing catch with your son, would be something worth remembering. But people playing an Xbox video game, cant really make emotional connection to the game.
Or maybe you can, and that is very sad.
Like people becoming attached to their video game characters?

Originally posted by InertiaZero
reply to post by silent thunder

 

I feel weird, because this is my third post in row, but I wanted to address this.

So you think that we feel more of a need for purpose, or a dramaticized life?
Like how people blog often. Are you saying they are self-important?

Or maybe these moments that you mention. Playing catch with your son, would be something worth remembering. But people playing an Xbox video game, cant really make emotional connection to the game.
Or maybe you can, and that is very sad.
Like people becoming attached to their video game characters?

Well, I don't know, I don't play video games but I don't deny that people can have profound experiences through all sorts of media...all my life I've come back to my favorite boooks again and again and sometimes they still make me cry. Sometimes in a different way, for a different reason. Maybe the younger generations can forge similar bonds with new media. I don't think its particularly sad...information is information, and it can uplift us, crush us, motivate us, and so on.

What I do think is sad and is being lost is simply the sense of being able to enjoy a momement for what it is...and the constant, gnawing need to have one's life "mean something." Kids these days seem obsessed with being "famous" which strikes me as bizzare because most of my life has been a quest to get the world to leave me alone as much as possible. Its also sad when people evaluate their lives as if they are part of a story...life is not a story, you are not a main character, or a supporting character, there is no ending...there are lots of little stories along the way, and there is a place for storytelling, but people are taking it too far, letting it take over their lives. And a lot of it is about breaking people down into these cartoonish black-and-white categories...you're either a "winner" or a "loser"...how trite.

reply to post by InertiaZero

Today, and it is still early where I live, I have tended my vegetable garden, fed my chickens, who provide us with eggs and will live out there entire existence pecking around my little bit of land.

Hooked up my old cultivator to my old tractor, in preparation to plow my bottom paddock, so I can grow my potatoes, onions, garlic, carrots etc, and have popped in for a break so I can read some posts on ATS to stimulate my brain reading other peoples views.

It was during this break that I noticed your post and thought I would chip in.

A few years back I lived in suburbia and consulting the oracle (internet) daily. I became concerned about where the world was heading so my wife and I decided we would simplify our lives.

I still use technology for many things but technology can't do anything for me that I can't do without it.

Technology has helped me to understand how to do the things I do now. How to grow things, How to care for my animals, how to get the best from my land.

I think most importantly, It warned me, alerted me, that if the lights go out I would not be able to exist without relying on others.

I discovered a community that shares it's excess produce with it's neighbors. Abundance is a natural thing in fact. I have way more produce(at certain times of the year) than I need, and it is shared around my community.

More and more people are moving to this place with the same goal of becoming self sufficient. They have all arrived at this decision because of what they have read and seen and learned through technology.

The more people that make this positive step the better, because when this wonderful resource stops, it will be up to us to pass on the knowledge of how to survive.

Good post though star and flag, now back to work.

reply to post by kennyb72


Awesome!

I would love to get to this point. I admire you a bit.

I foresee a time in the near future when people will be forced to live differently due to heavier regulation of our resources and possibly rationing as well.

Rather than understanding any 'balance' I expect many to protest and call it manipulation and things may get nasty.

Already there have been subtle experiments in this direction. It brings to mind those who signed up for a special program of "energy saving" with their electric providers. The deal was that your electric usage would be cut during peak hours. This was so that part of the population would modify their routine. Hot showers at noon instead of early morning, etc. etc.

These ideas will not really work well as long as everyone is on a 9 to 5 schedule. This regimentation is also part of what is wrong with our society and what drives overload.

According to the Agenda 21 plan, people will be concentrated in small villages where everything that is needed will be produced within that area. There will no longer be excess of driving long distances to work, or to haul food and supplies. This is the plan to bring us back into a "balance". No more junk imports that are unnecessary. No one person will be permitted to have an excess or splurge on resources. There will be no class distinction, no Joneses, and everyone will be just as equal.

This plan is to help us realize how we have been wasting our natural resources and also to value them reverently.

I think this plan will be beneficial to people and deathly to greedy corporations. The corporations have had little regard for their effect on the environment and its time people stood up against them. But at the same time, know that it may cost personal sacrifices of what those corps. provided. It will be an adjustment; those who can adapt by accepting this spirit of balance, will make it.