Christianity to control the masses?! [rant]

Originally posted by Undomiel
Who are you addressing your question to?

whoever wants to answer it

They did exist, in my opinion. In fact, I think most of the religions on the planet share a similar thread of truth, because at one time, they all were told the same exact things and all experienced similar events. Some kept careful records, some did not. The older the record, the closer to the original truths we get.

Originally posted by acidhead
pure faith , and yet your correct and they arent ?

It may start with faith only, but when you see miracles happen in front of your eyes it becomes more than faith.
And I am saying this to answer your question to how I know my religion is right, I am not saying it as a way to try to make anyone believe.

can you explain how/who verified these as miracles and can you tell me what experiments you completed to check to make sure it wasnt a natural phenomena ?

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by acidhead]

christianity is the best thing that ever happened to my generations. ever since i was little i was always embraced by this deep which surrounded my guidance since all my days. i have to worry about the future no more just because i am a christian.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
i have to worry about the future no more just because i am a christian.

some people say the silliest of things to prove themselves about god

did you worry about the future anyway ? did death scare you ?

if someone in the street pulled a gun on you , are you saying you would laugh and say "its ok , im a christian" and tell them to pull the trigger or would you excriment a large one?

im sure ill get a "if its god way that i must die now then let it be" speach but if that event happened i bet for a second or 2 you would really question your faith , maybe even cross your fingers



[Edited on 26-5-2004 by acidhead]

all i have to say is one thing acid and that thing is whatever has happened has happened and couldnt have happened any other way. thank you.

mercy for the vile

Abortion, Death penalty executions, Embryonic stem cell research????? Tell me is Christianity, or any other religion in control????

all religions are the same. its just different bibles were misinterpreted at times. creating some masses to believe in ''holy wars.'' Allah means ''i am all'' which were the last three words jesus said before he was dead. Joshua also means ''eloah'' which is another word for ''most high god.''

all the same people..


now get along...


....lol...

Remember that when people abuse religion to control masses or get more power, it does not mean that the religion was created to control masses or get certain individuals power.

jacko , you never answered my post on who validated your miracles and what tests you done to make sure it wasnt natural

First of all, my name is Jakko.
The best way to spell names correctly is by looking at the names on the left of their posts.

As I allready said, I was mentioning the miracle part to explain why I think my religion is the right one, not to try to convince anyone to believe me on my word.
The reason why i said this, is that it is not my intention to have discussions about the miracles God showed in my life, with people who were not there.

I will however give you one example.
A woman in my church was pregnant, but the baby was born dead.
It did not breath for 45 minutes untill it was attached to a breathing machine.
The docters wanted to give up because they said the braindamage because of the 45 minutes without breathing was too big.
The whole church Prayed, as did the pastor.
The pastor had allready lost a child in his life, also a baby that was born dead so even though he prayed for this new baby, deep in his heart he did not have faith, and did not believe God would heal this baby.
The baby suddenly started to breath after a few hours, but tests showed out that his brain was damaged severely.
Noone stopped praying, the entire church was alarmed by this time.
Over the next few hours, every test the docters took, amazed them more.
A couple of days later, every test taken showed a 100% healthy and normal baby, and the docters were astounded.
They could not understand or explain what had happened.
The parents allready knew what had happened of course.

The pastor eventually held a speech in church about these events, explaining that through this whole period God had shown him an important lesson as well.
Wether God heals someone or not, does not depend on what we expect, what we have experienced in the past or what knowledge we have, it's entirely up to God and up to His plan for everyone.

After hearing about this baby starting to breath and step by step coming back to life, it's a little bit out of place to want to try to validate and do tests on it to know wether this is natural or not.
For me this was a miracle, for the docters (even though they are not christian) it was a miracle as well, they had never seen anything like this.
But for people reading this, it may just as well be someones hysterical flawed perception, or a plain fairytale.
My words do not prove anything, God will have to prove himself in your life, I can not convince anyone with these testamonies, so why bother having an endless discussion with you about watertight proof?

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Jakko]

Your church should pray more often, countless millions of children die every year........

If anything, sheer coincidence has served itself proper in this case.

Deep

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by ZeroDeep]

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Your church should pray more often, countless millions of children die every year........

If anything, sheer coincidence has served itself proper in this case.

The funny thing is that I have heard the argument that when you pray for something to happen and it does it is because God has heard you, but when it does not happen it is because God is testing you or has a greater scheme in plan then your selfish prayer. I guess with that mentality, you just can't lose your logic for a God to exist.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Your church should pray more often, countless millions of children die every year........

If anything, sheer coincidence has served itself proper in this case.

Deep

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by ZeroDeep]

See it's these kind of predictable responses that make me want to keep my experiences to myself.
This is not the only "coincidence" I have seen in my life, but why should I even bother giving you more stories to make "funny" replies to?
I'm not going to try to prove to you why this was no coincidence.

I thought this article byJOE BAGEANT , who has several Christian ministers in his immediate family, was very insightful.

I would forget about a god that gave someone a dead baby and start thanking the doctors that helped heal it.

If those doctors weren't there with their equipment that baby would still be dead.

Surely it was His will for the baby to be born dead in the first place wasn't it?

Did your prayers make God realize that he had made a mistake? Good job you were there to correct him eh?

Originally posted by Faceless
I would forget about a god that gave someone a dead baby and start thanking the doctors that helped heal it.

If those doctors weren't there with their equipment that baby would still be dead.

Surely it was His will for the baby to be born dead in the first place wasn't it?

Did your prayers make God realize that he had made a mistake? Good job you were there to correct him eh?

he moves in mysterious ways woooooo

seriously tho , the fact you where praying for the baby is a coincidence , how many more stories are around like that where the baby came back to life but you lot wasnt there to pray?

can you repeat this process and see what happened if you never prayed? no you cant , you believe in god and therefore "IT MUST HAVE BEEN HIM!!" popped into your head.

it reminds me of the skeptic on "most haunted" uk tv , funny thing he says , they all walk around a house in the dark , a noise is heard and the main huncho ghost bloke says "ghosts are here" the rest of the crowd all decide to get scared and believe him ?

anyway = this skeptic bloke overdubs saying something like "ghosts are the least probable thing that caused that noise , how come it was the first thing that popped into the other guys head?" .

christianity is the ghost/ufo/psychic community on steroids

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by acidhead]

That was an interesting article. This upsurge in christian fundamentalism translates to an answer to muslim fundamentalism. If they (terrorists and islamic fundamentalists) stand down in regards to the religions of the world and in regards to the US, you can almost guarantee the christian right will as well. I don't mean they'll lose their religion nor their desire to see the american political and social arena as more God-fearing and God-loving, but their desire to see it foisted at gunpoint on the rest of the world will diminish to the same degree as radical islam diminishes. It's a balance point, just as much a natural outcropping of world politics as it is national politics.

This doesn't mean, however, that they want to see the radical liberal agenda as our new reality, but this is also guaged by the degree of "Radical" inserted in each instance. Balance is the focal point. If it starts inching towards the edge of common sense and threatens to fall off completely, then one side or the other, reinserts itself as a countermeasure to such a scenario (we would hope, anyway).

This is exactly what is happening now and is, I personally believe, the result of organizations such as secret societies, trying to reestablish a comfortable norm for all people. Afterall, how comfortable would our nation be (especially if it is primarily "Christian"), if we were forced to accept liberal ideals in every venue (which if you think about it, is our current reality) - porn is rampant on tv, in the video store, on the internet, we are literally ineundated with it. It's hard for a christian to turn on the TV without being met by the extreme opposite of their beliefs on every hand. Abortion is rampant. The gay lifestyle is promoted with such regularity, its as if the entire nation were being brainwashed (and believe me, thinking people do notice these things). The Newspapers declare the accusations of the fundamental islamics who refer to the US as the great Satan and the Whore of Babylon, because our lack of religious and moral sensibilities is so glaringly obvious to them when compared to their lifestyles (and if you think christian USA is authoritarian, you ain't seen nothing till you've seen the current reality of a fundamentalist islamic culture).

When faced with such a national dilemma, 2 choices present themselves, either learn to respect each other's sensibilities, at least enough not to force your world and moral view on each other, or face the consequences of a backlash of equal and opposite reaction. It's Apollo vs. Dionysus, the ongoing struggle for balance, that is the american ideal, which over the last 4 decades, has been increasingly less balanced, favoring the liberal agenda above all others. This is the reaction. Believe me, the other fundamentalist nations of the world recognize the state of "Debauchery" the US has come to and make no bones about it, they see it as our "National weakness", yet another reason to eradicate our government and our people, and not as the ideal society the liberal agenda would have us believe it is.

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by Undomiel]

Originally posted by Faceless
I would forget about a god that gave someone a dead baby and start thanking the doctors that helped heal it.

The docters did not bring it back to life, neither did they undo the braindamage.

If those doctors weren't there with their equipment that baby would still be dead.

The equipment was, in this case, (according to the doctors) not able to help this baby anymore.

Surely it was His will for the baby to be born dead in the first place wasn't it?

No it was not Gods will for any baby to be born dead, neither is it His will that anyone gets sick.

Did your prayers make God realize that he had made a mistake? Good job you were there to correct him eh?

God did not kill this baby, neither is it Gods will that this baby was born dead, therefore God had made no mistake.
God does not break into our lives to do miracles uninvited, therefore when you pray you basicly give God the possibility to help you, and if you do not pray He can not help you even though He wants to.
These rules and laws regarding free will apply to to the "evil" side as well, there has to be a human choice involved before demons can interfear with a human life.

As for other babies coming back to life without anyone praying for them, it's pretty easy to say that kind of things when you do not know what exactly happened here.
The docters had never seen anything like this before, which makes me think "other babies coming back to life" may not be as usual of an event as you put it, at least not in this way.

[Edited on 28-5-2004 by Jakko]