Creationist Conundrum: For Genesis to be true, God would have to be the Great Deceiver (Satan)!

reply to post by kingoftheworld


I agree, King.

This is Satan's world. That is why it is full of suffering.

Why God allowed it to be Satan's I don't know.

I think it is a game, and we are pawns.

reply to post by TaraLou


how could you be generous to anyone if no one needed anything? a sinful world can contain a greater amount of good acts than a perfect one.

reply to post by MisterP

People back then in those 'biblical ages' saw everything supernatural as God or angelic... even nowadays people claim something was god but is actually was not god. Because they don't know better

You start off with, is there a God or not? If you have any common sense
still intact the answer is yes .

Well if there is a God, who is responsible for existence, he must be a very
intelligent, very mighty being, worthy of what ever he wants of us. (Just more common sense)

Next I would think ok wouldn't he try to communicate some how since he
will not be in the presence of sin.

Aha the Bible!
Don't you now think he would be able to get that message thru to us uncorrupted?

I personally find it hard to believe this book called the 'bible'.

Maybe this will help

Brief
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth

Taralou

Why God allowed it to be Satan's I don't know.

Nobody really does but he has already shown he knows what he is doing.
That's why you can have faith. Also it dosn't say God gave Satan the earth.
He has allowed him to be God of this world. Because that's what we have made him.



[edit on 24-12-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


We wouldn't need to be generous to anyone if everyone had the same - another proof it is a game.

Aha the Bible! Don't you now think he would be able to get that message thru to us uncorrupted?

I'm sure he could, But its not the case now, isnt it? Wouldnt he then also let his creation be uncorrupted? He sure could, but he simply DIDNT, according to what the bible tells.

Next I would think ok wouldn't he try to communicate some how since he will not be in the presence of sin.

Sure... As i said before, I do not claim to be right.

Maybe this will help Brief Instructions Before Leaving Earth

So, was the word 'bible' for the english toungue only? Because I sure cant get; 'Brief instructions before leaving earth' out of it in dutch ("Bijbel").

peace



[edit on 24-12-2009 by MisterP]

[edit on 24-12-2009 by MisterP]

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two)

This is false. The Bible does NOT claim this. This is your whole argument. Therefore your whole argument is flawed.

This idea of 6000 literal years was brought up by people incorrectly interpreting what the bible actually does say. The bible does not mean that for every year mentioned it is a literal 365 day a year type of year.

reply to post by MisterP

So, was the word 'bible' for the english toungue only? Because I sure cant get; 'Brief instructions before leaving earth' out of it in dutch ("Bijbel").

This is true Grasshopper.
But are you Dutch ?

This is false. The Bible does NOT claim this. This is your whole argument. Therefore your whole argument is flawed.

Shh Phoenix, of course it isn't true but I was keeping that in reserve.
What a blow it.
GRASSHOPPER?
did you ever see kung fu David Carridine. Any way I was just kidding with you. Lighten up partner.



[edit on 24-12-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MisterP

 

So, was the word 'bible' for the english toungue only? Because I sure cant get; 'Brief instructions before leaving earth' out of it in dutch ("Bijbel").

This is true Grasshopper.
But are you Dutch ?

What to u mean by Grasshopper? And yes, i live in holland.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by MisterP]

reply to post by MisterP


Ok then well I hear holland is nice. Do you know who
David Carridine is ? I was kidding with you .
You see I didn't realise you were not from never mind.
It was not offensive in any way ok. I apologise.

Please forgive my wacky humor.

To answer your question Mister P no it was not meant for the English language exclusively.
The Bible that is.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by randyvs]

It's all good Randyvs. I do not tend to offend anybody too.
No, i havent heard of David Carridine.

peace

[edit on 24-12-2009 by MisterP]

[edit on 24-12-2009 by MisterP]

I am so glad that I decided not to reply upon reading the OP.

I read the entire thread first and I am so VERY PLEASED!

I don't even need to name names. You guys made my day.

Thank you very much OP for starting this thread. And thanks to the God-loving thinkers here who set things just a little bit straighter.

One of the big things that I have not seen anyone mention it that the Bible is written by man, man is flawed, therfore the bible is flawed.

I have said it before religion is nothing but a tool for contorling the stupid masses who "beleive" if you dont have BLIND FAITH no religion wants you as a memeber.

Time and time again I have heard from religious people that I need to have faith but I just dont have the ability to take there word as gospel and not question the god or there doctorine.

The creation theroy verus evolution will never be answered if one side refuses to use logical resoning and just beleives what they are told.

I dont need faith to know why the sky looks blue to us but I need faith to know why the sky is there acording to religion.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


God created Satan to tempt man. If he did not show us evil then who would know what being good is?

Satan plays by Gods rules as you can see no better in the book of Job.

P.S. God rules Heaven and earth. Satan has current power over the nations.

God did not give this same authority to the fallen 200 Watchers who utterly defied God.

Originally posted by jpmail
One of the big things that I have not seen anyone mention it that the Bible is written by man, man is flawed, therfore the bible is flawed.

Your premise maybe correct in assuming the failings of man, but when one considers the people generally where scripting the Inspired Word of God under the direct influence of God almighty, then we can believe the Original texts did get it correct.

I have said it before religion is nothing but a tool for contorling the stupid masses who "beleive" if you dont have BLIND FAITH no religion wants you as a memeber.

Well, thats another topic, and has little to do with the subject here, isn't it. Religion in general is the realm of mankind and a sieres of Doctrines, Dogmas and Theologies constructed by man. Religion has actually very little to do with the Bible, since for the majority of religions (Chrisitan) out there, they pick and twist scripture out of context, inorder to have the flock presume the tenets of the perticular sect are correct, and the flock sit there, many with a Bible in their hands, and do not even question the teachings, since they come from a house which claims it teaches God's Word. Sad, sad, sad.

Time and time again I have heard from religious people that I need to have faith but I just dont have the ability to take there word as gospel and not question the god or there doctorine.

Faith, hmmm. You have a problem with it do you? Well, as a Christian the only faith aspect I have in my day to day life dwells in two areas.

1: Knowing Jesus is preparing a place for me.
2: Knowing that Pray and the laying of hands will provide Miracles for those seeking such.

The balance of my beliefs are quite firmly established on TRUTHS, which are found within the Letter GOD wrote to you, here, being refered to as the Bible. I do not need to have FAITH, inorder to make use of my Bible. It is an Historically accurate, Spiritually Blessed and Prophetic Warning that I have no difficulties understanding or comprehending. It is user friendly, and the Ending is the Best, and not far away.

Matthew Chapter 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The creation theroy verus evolution will never be answered if one side refuses to use logical resoning and just beleives what they are told.

Again, I think this is off topic, but I also will express similiar views. Those stupid Evolutionist that believe a lie. We must pray for them, shouldn't we.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by metamagic
I no longer even bother with creationists. Or flat earthers. They do seem to be a uniquely American cultural phenomenon as a off shoot of this odd form of fundamentalism that is also part of the American culture. Better things to do with my time.

I sometimes do wonder if someone is honing their skills in America. There isn't any proof of it but where did all the loonies come from?
It doesn't add up -- Especially with the abundance of infrastructure and technology in America.

Are we differentiating between...
creationism...(another -ism)
& intelligent design (yes, we do all have a little)

because, excluding the parenthesized comments for levity, the former implys god, while the latter does not..&..the former does not imply evolution of species, while the latter does.

*all creation evolves intelligently*


LOVE





[edit on 24-12-2009 by awake1234]

Maybe Adam and Eve were a new experiment for God since God did put them in what seems to have been a controlled environment, The Garden of Eden. It seems there were others already here.( Cain's wife in the land of Nod) I'm assuming God made those too.
Something went terribly wrong, when the snake convinced Eve to take the fruit of the tree of knowledge. I don't know if these two would have done this of their own free will sometime in the future or not. My guess is yes. Humans were given free will and definitely curious about everything. These two were as smart as humans are today in brain power. From that point on knowledge increased to the point where we are now. It will keep up that pace until time is up.
These two had all they needed to survive and live for however long God deemed sufficiently long enough. They did not have to do anything except obey God.
Animals in a Zoo have the same thing.
But it does seem that others were involved in the Garden of Eden experiment with God.....Genesis 3:22..God speaking to someone..
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as ONE OF US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and LIVE FOREVER:
From that statement it appears that Adam and Eve were not immortal.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by ellieN] editing for grammer

[edit on 24-12-2009 by ellieN]

reply to post by kingoftheworld


Your kidding right? Every religion has been "picked on". IMO Christianity is the worst at judging people for not doing or believing what the they do. Yet they are all so much alike.
Logic is the key to understanding. The reason you are told not to question, is so you won't find the answers. It dumbs you down with threats, and scares you into thinking if you actually use the brain that was given you to its full potental, you will be punished for it.
Kind of reminds me of my mother. She used to always say,"Do as I say, Not as I do" I figured out real quick that, that way of thinking, is wrong, and restrictive. just my 2 pennies

"I have grown weary of debating the finer points of Evolutionary Theory with those who lack the scientific knowledge to measure the boiling point of water, so let's try debating the other end of this issue: The Creation Myth."

Wow, now that's a condescending statement. So, folks who believe in creation are some how lacking intelligence? I am making an assumption, that you also don't believe in creation in any form outside the biblical story

When I say creation, I mean, "the creator," the being, the consciousness that started it all. So, I guess you could say the creator could be a being like the devil. You could also say that the creator is also part of all of us. So, yeah, you could say that the creator is good, evil, and everything in between. But, this is a story with a potentially very very long time span, not just several thousand years.

Again making an assumption you don't believe in creation in any form, as far as there being evidence.... Well, there is tons of evidence. Humans create things all the time. It's part of our existence. We work up an idea in our minds and we make it a reality in the physical universe.

Troy

OK, just to make things crystal clear here, in the OP I was refering to New Earth Creationists, those who accept and believe the story of Creation in Genesis LITERALLY! I keep seeing contextual interpretations here, but that's not what I was refering to in the OP. If you have a problem with the timeline, don't blame me, blame these literalists who counter science with this nonsense...

Oh, and to those who blame Satan for the appearance of dinosaur fossils and such, thanks for the laugh! Puhlease!!! Some of these lame arguments lack any logic whatsoever! Come on, where are all of these 'Creation Scientists' I've heard so much about? (ROTFLMAO!)