Crop Circles are Man Made, and here is why!

I have no doubt the majority of crops circles are man made.

The makers have their own little secret society. Every year they do their little competitions where each group attempts to one up the other. I imagine they even give themselves awards for quickest circle, best circle and circle that received the most media attention etc, etc.

Like GW's skull and bones in the U.S. I imagine it's probably some College Fraternities taking part in their annual rite of passage too. They probably keep a book with pictures of their work in some secret location and pull it out once a year while they decide how they will make their new ones.

Originally posted by CHA0S

As I said...how hard would it be for me to prove Aliens made them? I'd need to essentially prove the existence of Aliens...

So do that and I'll shut up. It is that simple CHAOS and you know that.

you on the other hand have proved nothing but the fact that SOME are made by man...but you have yet to actually prove some of the most complex and mind blowing crop circles have been made by man...that's why I thought the challenge I linked was a good idea...

I understand the challenge.
You do not because it is a straw man argument.
You need to show that these circles suddenly appear and are made by Aliens.
You cannot do that save for videos from people like Gary King. I clearly point out WHY people like Gary would promote the Idea that these circles suddenly appear and are not man made, but they never, ever show that.
They ONLY claim it.
The same as you claim that only some are man made, simply show me the Circles that are not man made are being made by aliens.
Until then it is safe for me to conclude that all these circles are man made because I have evidence that man exists, and evidence that men make crop circles.
So the challenge is a false one given you only have claims and a criteria that is suggested and not shown.
When I mention criteria, I mean you suggest and claim that these circles suddenly appear.
All you have is claims and suggestions. Show these circles suddenly appearing. Just show me one, actually suddenly appearing from nowhere.
Just one.

I'd like to see some one actually publicly replicate one of these mind blowing circles with matching precision and perfection and ...prove once and for all it can be done...if you could replicate some things like unbroken stalks, weaved stalks, extremely high radiation levels and a lack of any human presence such as footprints...I'd be impressed...

Dude, show me one actually being made by something other then men, and we'll all be f$%ing kissing your ass for eternity along with heralding disclosure etc. etc.

I have evidence that MEN exists, and That they Make Crop Circles.
I don't need to prove that.

Yes...you do...and your point?
Why do I need to do the challenge!
Another point is, where is your evidence to support your claims other than suggesting that these crop circles appear suddenly and could not be made by man in the same suggested and claimed time frame.

Here is your logic. In an analogy.
Some one post youtube video titled: "Crop House(a.k.a crop circle) proof: The awakening"(roll on the new age soundtrack, wind chimes and pan pipes with a celtic undertone)
Commentary by eyewitness expert "researcher".
Expert researcher: "We were filming this crop field, (show field in darkness). And then there was a flash of light(images shows interference), when the sun came up, all of a sudden there was a crop house(a.k.a. crop circle).
The crop house suddenly appeared. We walked down to the house, and yes, it was a complex house, with many geometric shapes and was clearly intelligently designed, because it is complex".
"We asked the farmer, was there a house in that field". The Farmer said, "No". But the farmer said it was O.K. if we brought in the 35 punter on our tour to see it".
"We believe there was no way men could have built that house in a night, no way, not even those geezers from renovation rescue, it was just too complex".
End Youtube credits with link to the DVD of lecture on Crop House, Crop House Calender, and Crop House Pictorial history Coffee table book".

Enter CHAOS with the CHAOS challenge.
CHAOS:"They said it suddenly appeared.
The Farmer said it was not there before.
There is a video on youtube.
They said there was no way it could be built that quick, because they clearly say that it was not there before and it just appeared. Gee, I wish I could have seen it appear, I wish they could have filmed that, too bad it was dark.
I believe what they say.
There for it must be true.
I will set a challenge for men to try and build a house that quickly in the field because I believe what was suggested to me. And that suggestion was that the house suddenly appeared, that is was too complex and too big to be built by men, even though there are lots of other houses(crop circles) that have clearly been built by men, but these houses took them days, but this crop house, in the video on youtube, well they told me it suddenly appeared, gee I wish I could have seen it appear, maybe aliens are shy".

Video footage of weird lights appearing where crop circles appear? Extremely high radiation levels? Unbroken and weaved stalks? Lack of human presence? Or how about I just go catch an Alien red handed?

Awesome dude, show me the video of the lights, and then the same video with the crop circle appearing suddenly. Just show me it. Can not wait for the commentary with all those edit cuts and suggestions and eyewitness "researchers". I hope they have cool spooky music.

Please tell me it is not a Gary King Video from 2007. Please dude. Don't make me watch it again.

There is the real challenge CHAOS.
Just show one video with a crop circle suddenly appearing.
Just one.
One actually appearing suddenly.
Not a before and after shot.
One appearing.
One that does not need commentary, or suggestions or inferences about complexity.

Edit to add: CHAOS I know I may come of as being a smart ass in this post but this is how your challenge appears to me.
It explains nothing or proves anything because it is based on a criteria derived from assumptions and suggestions.
I hope you see my point, and I hope my post does not insult you as that is not my aim.

[edit on 21/12/09 by atlasastro]

reply to post by Daisy-Lola


Hi Daisy,

I know what you mean. I think it is worth looking some individuals in the actual culture. Like all the "weird" and unexplained phenomena much can be learnt from looking at the people who give us "explanations" and "expert" advice on these matters.

The aim of my post is to show and consider valid and real reasons and motives behind men making these circles and why these man made circles would be promoted and sold as being anything but man made.

Thanks for the post.

reply to post by Alienmindflare

Nobody can say 100% crop circles are all man made or 100% all made by aliens,,of course theres proof that 'some' are man made

Can we be 100% certain of anything? This is not an argument that proves anything. We can't even be 1% certain that Alien are making these, but the percentage in favor of Man Made, I would figure, incredibly high given the obvious fact that man exists, and men have been documented making crop circles.

and 'some' have just made people scratch their heads in amazement because of the size/detail and time they were created,so of course theres a high possibility 'some' are made by aliens.

I disagree with you friend and I would like to explain why. Just because you or others don't understand or comprehend how the circles are made does not indicate evidence that aliens did them nor does it indicate the probability that aliens did create them.
It indicates that you and others cannot fathom how they were made. That is all. In the absence of this understanding or knowledge you insert aliens. Where as I believe man has make them because I have come to understand and know that men make circles, do make circles and will continue to make them. I understand how a house is built but I cannot comprehend how architects designed these so do I tell people that Aliens did it because I scratch my head in wonder?

I just see the ones that really dont believe it could be aliens maybe are just scared to admit it could be another being from another planet.In this day and age it cant be totally ruled out.

I just see the ones that believe as being to afraid to admit that they are man made. We can all play that game, and to be honest, it is lame.
Entering the probability of alien life and then extrapolating that probability into a space faring race that is visiting earth in order to make just "some" of the crop circles is an incredible leap of faith that I am not currently willing to make.

Crop circles get more precise and bigger every year,lets see whats created next year and the possibilites whether the new ones are man or alien made.

It is pretty funny how human endeavors have followed such a pattern, from simplicity to complexity, in nearly all we do. So how does this feature argue against humans creating crop circles, starting of simply and then getting better and better and bigger and bigger at making them?

Before long man will be spotted if they are doing every single one in the world.

Come on bro! Are you for real.
Dude, just spot one freaking alien making one. Just one. Once.

Thanks mate, for you thoughts.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Show these circles suddenly appearing. Just show me one, actually suddenly appearing from nowhere.
Just one.

lol yeah!

Well if crop circles could magically just appear in a burst of light (or whatever) they could just be done in the daytime and really 'WOW' us... but they aren't. They are all done over night and appear the next morning.

Obviously, if I was thinking of creating a crop circle, I would do it under the cover of darkness...just like any other human would. I doubt I'd get away with it otherwise!

IRM

reply to post by gareth01422


Thanks for stopping by and adding your thoughts.

In the pictures phase 1 and phase 2, I think it is possible that man could have done these crop formations. Phase 3 is a different story, I will explain. It would be a logistical nightmare to organise the amount of people and that sort of time frame to make this very detailed formation. Not oly that if these were done by man the there would be formations with errors in them ( lines not parallel and out of square formations. But the ones Ive seen on the net are near ferfect.

The pictures in the OP are real. That circle happened like that, so whether or not you think it is possible or not seems to be a matter of personal opinion regardless of the facts. I understand that you may question the photos, but if you have evidence that refutes the photographic documentation of the stages of the crop circle being made, by all means share it please.

Personally I dont know what it is, It could be a big money making scheme by the farmers to get people there and charge them a few pound to see the crop circles. I also heard a theory on balls of light making the formations. I hhave also scene a video on youtube of MOD at the site of a formation trying to scare people away from the formations. If it was man making them then why would 2 unmarked helicopters turn up at a site?

Are the military only flying helicopters because Aliens are making crop circles?
Are military Helicopters evidence of Aliens making crop circles?
We have military helicopters flying exercises over my city on occasions.
Should I assume that mean Aliens are active in my city and they are possible creating complex art patterns somewhere in my city because military helicopters occasionally fly over the city?

Are military helicopters at ALL crop circles, Some, or just a few?
What does that mean?

Thanks again for you dropping by and adding some interesting observations to the thread.
Cheers.
for the Vid link, had not seen that before.

reply to post by atlasastro


Dude...all I'm saying is if I COULD prove SOME crop circles were actually made by Aliens I would...but it's an almost impossible task...on the other hand...you CAN (by that I mean anyone willing) actually prove crop circles are all made by man by publicly replicating some of the most complex ones in the same fashion (meaning overnight, mind boggling precision, no human trace and possibly things like unsnapped stalks, increased radiation levels and weaved stalks)...it's not a near impossible task...or it shouldn't be if they are in fact all man-made...right? THAT IS MY LOGIC! So why don't one of you skeptics actually go out and PROVE something and show us all up instead of claiming because SOME men do it and there is money to be made all CC's are man-made...because we "believers" sure as hell aren't going to prove you guys wrong anytime soon...but according to your explanation of how CC's are made you can go out at any time and conclude this argument!

[edit on 21/12/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Hey IRM,
Thanks for dropping by.

This is what really bugs me and what alien made crop circle believers spout all the time like it is set in stone.

The claim that Crop circles just appear. I mention this in my OP and link Two threads that Use this claim from the same sources that shows no such thing.

It is generally accepted by many here on ATS as a fact that the circles just appear.
I clearly tried to point out that "Experts" and "researches" promote this and encourage the belief so as to create the straw man argument that Man cannot possibly make them whilst at the same time weaving a mystical quality to the circles.
These are the same individuals hosting tours, conferences, DVD's etc etc.

I mean for God's sake they have tours ALREADY organized for next years circles and they can't even catch on being made on film.


Is that just insane or what.
They already have tours for next years circles.
The Mind Boggles.

reply to post by CHA0S


Dude, I don't have to prove something according to your flawed criteria that is based on assumptions and suggestions.

You just don't get it.

I don't claim that MEN make circles in the same way YOU IMAGINE or BELIEVE that they are made, but cannot prove or show that they are made that way. You believe that these circles appear suddenly with all your criteria and simply say man could not do it. I want you to show it.
Then we can test the man made circles against your suddenly appearing out of nowhere circles because we actually have a bench mark and not a belief, or a suggestion or an inference.

You need to prove the circles just appear.
That is your claim. NOT Mine. I claim they are man made and that I have evidence for that and evidence that suggest there is a reason why individuals are promoting false beliefs around man made circles in order to make money. I HAVE A CLAIM AND I PRESENT EVIDENCE. I SHOW THAT EVIDENCE. See how it works CHAOS.


NOW.

YOU Claim it is impossible for man to make circles because they appear extremely quickly, with this feature and that, too quick and complex for man to make.
So prove they do.
Show one appearing that quickly.
Without the suggestions or inferences or before and after cut testimonies.
Because that is all you have.

You want me to prove my theory by measuring it against what you Claim, suggest or infer.
False logic.
False Dichotomy.
A False Challenge.



[edit on 21/12/09 by atlasastro]

i think chaos just wants some people to go into a field and in one night replicate one them complex tricky cc's. If it can be done in the time frame and with the weirdness (radiation, bendy straws etc etc) once, then that proves we can do it ergo occam's razor theyre all ours.

I mean evidently the vast majority of cc's are man made, that is undeniable ... as you say they have next years tour planned, the big question is how do they do those really big complex ones and the phenomena that come with them. And all it would take is for a group of crop circlers to make one during the day and have it filmed, proving it can be done.

personaly i like the mystery ... it makes them special ^^

~TR

reply to post by atlasastro

You believe that these circles appear suddenly. I want you to show it.

As I've said several times now...proving my side of the argument is a lot harder...

I claim they are man made and that I have evidence for that and evidence that suggest there is a reason why individuals are promoting false beliefs around man made circles in order to make money. I HAVE A CLAIM AND I PRESENT EVIDENCE. I SHOW THAT EVIDENCE. See how it works CHAOS.

Yeah...I see how it works...a crime is committed and going on previous evidence we must assume it was a black man? All you've done is prove that SOME are made by man...

YOU Claim it is impossible for man to make circles because they appear extremely quickly, too quick for man to make.
So prove they do.

This is getting ridiculous...it's not that easy...and many people have tried...and we do in fact have several videos showing lights appearing over an area where a CC has occurred...and we've also had scientists record high levels of radiation in the vicinity of the CC...as well as the other wird phenomena sometimes apparent...that's about as far as we can go in trying to prove our side of the argument...and this is my point...you (all people on your side of the argument) can actually go out and prove conclusively that all crop circles are man-made...why is it that no one has done this? You like to ask us for conclusive proof...even though it's almost impossible and we've done our best...but you guys can't provide US with conclusive proof? It SHOULD be simple for you guys if you are in fact right in your assumptions...and that's all I'm saying...you have done nothing but show SOME CC's are man made...nothing more...nothing less...

reply to post by Tomb_Raven

Precisely.

[edit on 21/12/09 by CHA0S]

Originally posted by CHA0S
Or how about I just go catch an Alien red handed?

Now that would be cool, then i would seriously be impressed

On a serious note, I personally believe that there is alot of disinfo thrown into the mix regarding CC, plus there is some serious money to be made by the people who actually do them for a living, so taking that into account CC are always going to be hard to prove either way.

Unless CHA0S comes through and catches us a Alien red handed

Another worthless thread, that fails to adress (or even mention) the fact that the plants in some crop circles exhibit not only mysterious genetic changes, but also measurable exposure to microwave radiation.

Until anyone explains how this is possible, it is quite clear some are NOT man made at all.

Originally posted by Rikhart
Another worthless thread, that fails to adress (or even mention) the fact that the plants in some crop circles exhibit not only mysterious genetic changes, but also measurable exposure to microwave radiation.

Until anyone explains how this is possible, it is quite clear some are NOT man made at all.

A worthless thread you've posted in.
Perhaps you could link the data, and more importantly, which formations they correspond to. I mean there's no point debating a crop formation until this scientific and obviously infallible evidence is brought to light on each and every crop circle to eliminate the hoaxes
What type of genetic changes, and how measurable?



Actually, it wouldn't be the same evidence which is about 20 years old and was never researched or touched again for undisclosed reasons is it?

Originally posted by Tomb_Raven

i think chaos just wants some people to go into a field and in one night replicate one them complex tricky cc's. If it can be done in the time frame and with the weirdness (radiation, bendy straws etc etc) once, then that proves we can do it ergo occam's razor theyre all ours.

Dude, I get it. You guys don't.
All we have are these claims.
My OP actually links a crop circle that was made OVER days but is claimed to have appeared Overnight.
And why would the people responsible for making them go out and replicate the circles and debunk their own business.
These circles have been appearing for 20 years almost and NOT one video can show this. People who are making these circles have had years of practice and we see the progression in design and complexity that supports this.

Think about that, yet you still claim it is happening the way you are being told it is, by "researchers". Researchers I clearly show have a vested interest in promoting and claiming these circles suddenly appear!
My claim is that humans makes them, so going out in the field and making a complex CC will only prove MY point.
You guys then want to apply a criteria that is not proven to occur as the bench mark that Humans could not make them according to YOUR unproven bench mark. WTF.
Its like saying, prove men build houses in a day because I saw a video with a guy who said his house was suddenly built in a day, so unless you can build that house in a day his house was not made by humans.

I hope you see my point.
CHAOS has the circles.
He believes that they suddenly appear and are too complex to make.
He cannot show me one video of these appearing.
BUT I bet he can get heaps of witness testimonies.
LINK all the Videos of witness testimonies.
I bet there are a few.
I'll look at them.
I know where it will lead, but can YOU guys take the truth?
Because I am not new at this.

I mean evidently the vast majority of cc's are man made, that is undeniable ... as you say they have next years tour planned, the big question is how do they do those really big complex ones and the phenomena that come with them. And all it would take is for a group of crop circlers to make one during the day and have it filmed, proving it can be done.

There s a link in my thread to such a group.
Check it out. circlemakers.org...

personaly i like the mystery ... it makes them special ^^

~TR

Me too dude, that was until I let the truth get in the way of a good story.
You hit the nail on the Head though.
They need people to believe that the circles are special.
Otherwise, who would buy the calenders, the tours, the DVD's, the lectures, the lecture DVD's, who would join the clubs, go to conferences etc. etc.

Thanks for you time.

[edit on 21/12/09 by atlasastro]

reply to post by Rikhart


Who said my thread was about addressing what you mention.
READ the OP.

The thread title states, CROP CIRCLES ARE MAN MADE! AND HERE IS WHY.

I am making a claim and them trying to support that.

You could have added to the thread instead. I accept you opinion on worthlessness, I can easily see the bench mark you like people to live up to in your own post.

I'm sure this could all be solved within a year if a group of people really wanted to. The logistics are difficult but not impossible.

If you could coordinate around 50-100 people with night vision gear to go and hide themselves near crop circle hot spots for maybe 5-10 nights of the summer, sooner or later you're bound to catch either the humans or aliens responsible on film.

I wish someone would do this in a big way so we can finally put all this crapola in the bin where it belongs.

IRM

Originally posted by CHA0S

As I've said several times now...proving my side of the argument is a lot harder...

Which is why you need to create false challenges.

Yeah...I see how it works...a crime is committed and going on previous evidence we must assume it was a black man? All you've done is prove that SOME are made by man...

I am not profiling. I have evidence. I am not looking at a crime and inventing the nature of the criminal based on a claim that it could not have been a human that committed the crime, when I have evidence pointing at humans. Lots of evidence. Your analogy is asinine. Show me the evidence that it is not humans that we are looking for other than what you suggest humans could not possibly do when we have evidence that they can.

You like to ask us for conclusive proof...even though it's almost impossible and we've done our best...but you guys can't provide US with conclusive proof?

This is bull# and you know it.
The evidence is there that supports my claims.
You just don't accept it.
It is that simple.
You know you have no evidence other than a claim that what you see in the circles, man cannot do;
I have linked groups in the OP that do just what you claim the cannot.

I agree that this is ridiculous.
We could go round in circles.
You accept that men make crop circles.
But you do not accept that they make them all.
Which ones are they?
And why?

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I have a much better plan.
That requires less people.
There is a trail and a habit that can be noticed.

That is the great thing about Humans.
They are predictable.
And as my theory is that humans are responsible, this could be tested.

But you are right.
Both communities could easily solve the riddle.

One could not be bothered because they believe that humans are doing it.
And the other won't do it because they will only catch themselves.

I really dont have any idea about this, because I dont know how to make crop circles, I never saw someone doing it and really, its easy to say "I did it"

but lets use the so called logic that the op used to answer some guys

1 - crop circles are something used by farmers and group of people to make money
2 - a group of crop circles maker create a website claiming all crop circles are not alien, ending the debate, therefore, making all the people who would buy into it (we) have some doubts about it and not waste money into it


well, if you put 1 + 2 together, I dont think it will get u a 3

some people may say thatthey are showing themselvesfor possible farmers that would like to buy their service, but, ... since its all a conspiracy to make money like you guys said, its much more easy to talk directly to farmers and present the "project" since it will make it rain money literally for them

I really dont know what is going on, I am just using logic