Sacked for offering a prayer

Now I'm not religious so I have no particular axe to grind. But this is the second such case we have had.
In this instance a teacher was sacked after offering to pray for a sick pupil.
uk.news.yahoo.com...
Apparently the parents complained.
Last time it was a nurse who landed in hot water for doing the same.
www.telegraph.co.uk...
Now I would politely decline or heck, maybe even accept. Even as an atheist, I wouldn't take offence at what is probably a well meant gesture. I certainly wouldn't complain. Or is it just me?

[edit on 20-12-2009 by unicorn1]

reply to post by unicorn1


This teacher and that nurse had no business talking about religion. Lots of people want nothing to do with that nonsense, and so don't want to have to deal with it when they're suffering.

It would be a different story if prayer had actually ever been successful, but every single study performed shows it achieves nothing.

If you read the story you linked to, you'd see the family of the sick kid were distressed this lady started banging on about faith. She was supposed to be a teacher, not some sort of super nun.

If she'd kept her irrational beliefs to herself, then none of this would have happened. But then lots of Christians feel so righteous in their beliefs that they don't hesitate 'sharing' their nonsense with others, and then get upset when people call them out on it. Pathetic.

Religion is between the believer and their God(s), not between the believer and the people charged to their care. That is an abuse of position, and should be treated as such.

If a police officer did the same, this is what it'd look like. You can imagine it would not be wanted:

It was probably more a kind gesture than a threat.

What kind of people are we that we would find such a problem with someone offering a prayer for us? If God does not exist, there is no harm done. If God does exist, chances are He will decide that some are not worth the trouble.

If someone is trying to be kind and thoughtful, why turn that into a point of contention? It really doesn't matter whether the act involved prayer or the shaking of beads and rattles. Like a gift, it is the thought that is supposed to count for something.

All the faux indignation is intolerance exemplified and utterly pointless.

Originally posted by redoubt
What kind of people are we that we would find such a problem with someone offering a prayer for us?

How would you feel if a bunch of witch doctors started dancing and chanting around your kid, shaking rattles at them, going into trances and uttering nonsense trying to chase out the demons, frightening the heck out of your kids with such similar stupidity and superstitious nonsense?

Keep all that nonsense out of other peoples faces, please. It's frightening, even for me, to see grown adults act so irrational. I don't trust irrational people around kids.

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by redoubt
What kind of people are we that we would find such a problem with someone offering a prayer for us?

How would you feel if a bunch of witch doctors started dancing and chanting around your kid, shaking rattles at them, going into trances and uttering nonsense trying to chase out the demons, frightening the heck out of your kids with such similar stupidity and superstitious nonsense?

Keep all that nonsense out of other peoples faces, please. It's frightening, even for me, to see grown adults act so irrational. I don't trust irrational people around kids.

Actually, I would first take into consideration the intent.

I'd like to think that my children (now all grown) have a larger field of view of the world and people so as not to be held hostage by ignorance and misunderstanding.

People hold many beliefs and there is a difference between trying to force a belief upon you, or offering a kind gesture by way of their beliefs. It is in this specific place where the narrow minded view becomes captive to irrational fears.

.

I do se the reasoning, but the reality may seem cold.

"Religion" and state need be kept separate.

Otherwise you end up like Iran and other religious run countries.

Nothing wrong with offering a prayer for a sick child,

HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It should have been done in a NON-State institution like school.

You see, fair is fair, if you allow that....

You must allow musliums/Jews/Christians (all of em)... to pray durning school, we all know this would only lead to issues.

It came out later that the nurse in the similar story had a habit of "offering prayer" to her patients and had been warned. I wonder if it's the same for this teacher...

I don't understand why some religious folks feel they need to gain permission to pray for someone. If this teacher wanted to pray for the child, why didn't she just go home and pray for him??? If someone was in a coma, would she refuse to pray for him because she couldn't gain his consent? That's a ridiculous excuse to push her religious beliefs on other people.

This is just a way for her to proselytize under the guise of wanting to do the student a favor. Then, when her advances are spurned, she acts the victim.

She's providing a service. It's a business. She should remain professional.

It's time people learn that some people are as offended by religious proselytizing on the job as they are of unwanted personal advances on the job and start treating their clients as such. It's a matter of respect and professionalism.

The teacher said:

"I simply wanted to encourage them to be open to prayer ..."

I wonder how many other people she has been "encouraging to be open to prayer" before this incident...

Is a blessing not a blessing? So an offer for a prayer is that offensive? Man, chalk up another thing people have wrong. Ah well........I guess at one point in time things like this were important.....now it's all about me, me, me.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


It is not the thought that is the issue, IMO.

1) It is the clear need to separate religion and state.

2) If you allow one religions prayers, you need allow em all.

3) this is school to get an education in history/math/writing..... not religion.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


True to a point.....how do you teach history without religion, since it shaped so much of the world, and continues to do so now. I don't see a clear need.....it happens, state sanctioned or not.

reply to post by unicorn1


I don't think it's so much as to whether or not you would or would not take offence ... I think it's just the fact that some religious people tend to take things upon themselves without thinking first ... they just assume ... and it is the assumption that is out of order.

For example I would have to ask myself how these people who offered a prayer without considering the potential reprocussions, would feel if (for example), I had taken it upon myself (assumed it was ok), to perform a spell or ritual for one of their relatives without asking if it was ok to do so.

Woody.

reply to post by woodwytch


But she did ask permission is the point....I fail to see the problem in tht. If she proceeded with out asking and violated their free will I could see a problem.

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

I couldnt agree more with the bible in this case.

Its too bad xtians dont read it. It would solve a lot of their so called problems with the rest of the world.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


If she asked the parents/guardians permission then I don't see how there could be a problem ... if she asked someone other than a parent or guardian then not really their place to give permission, I guess.

Woody

It may have been a kind gesture but people forget that everyone do not have the same emotions and beliefs as them.

Everyone in this world are different, if a Freemason kept bothering me if I had a kid who was sick and kept ramming his beliefs down my throat. Then I would take offense and probably my fist down his throat and tell him to eff off.

reply to post by the_denv


So random acts of kindness are gone now too? It doesn't state she was ramming her beliefs down anyones throat anywhere in the article, nor does it mention Freemasonry?

Originally posted by redoubt
What kind of people are we that we would find such a problem with someone offering a prayer for us?

As a Christian, would you be willing to have someone pray to the Goddess/Buddah/Allah on your behalf?

Or would you take issue with it?

Some years ago I was “dying” in the Royal infirmary because my appendix had exploded inside me and the poison was destroying my liver because the poison was causing lesions to form all over the organ. My skin was turning yellow, I have read that a burst appendix should be operated within a timeframe of two hours or death is likely.

After four days of tossing and turning and by now exhausted from the morphine and the pain, the poison had eaten through my large intestine and it had to be truncated - my liver was wrecked and I was dying!

It took four days before I was operated on and by the time the operation got underway I was hallucinating terribly that I was being visited by the cast of East Enders and as you can understand I was not at all a happy bunny (I hate soaps and TV).

A nurse while wiping my sweating face with a wet cloth said she would pray for me. I snapped at her and told her to save her prayers for a believer. I might have been a little harsh but at the time my mind was racing, my eyes were lying to me and I could hear a full blown church choir in my ears.

When I was in recovery I did remember what I had said to this nurse and I apologised to her but she also apologised for offering a prayer for a person who does not behold his life and his struggles to live to gods and religion. As far as I was concerned I had been thrown into a corner and left to die and they thought a prayer would make it all better?

My point is that a dying person or a person seriously ill does not want or need a prayer; they need something that will rectify the situation in very real terms. It is said that there are no atheists in a foxhole but I would hazard a guess and say that saying was created by a believer to promote a religious agenda because an atheist even when facing death is not suddenly going to start praying to god - some might but not all.

Right after waking up a nurse then bumped the two tubes that were imbedded into my abdomen and she then threw a cloth at me and told me to have a wash with the cloth she had hurled at me – right after waking up from the operation.

So now I started shouting the ward down and going nuts in the intensive care unit, demanding a phone while struggling with all the tubes that were hanging out of me so that I could call my lawyer and that I was not going to take this crap. During this time I was handed a comb by this so called angel of mercy and asked if I would like to comb my hair – I am as bald as a baby’s backside.

I retorted, “No thank you sweetie you need this comb much more than me because you have a hair style that is more a cast iron helmet, get out of my sight you sadistic witch.”

After much ranting and raving and I eventually passed out.

I was on morphine at the time and had just awoken for a major operation that had unzipped me right across my stomach and now I had to fight against victimisations from some sadist nurse because she was having a bad day.

Yes my solicitors got in touch and yes this nurse was severely reprimanded and yes I made a real stink about it to the extent I had a cosy chat with men in suits from the hospital because I threatened to take my story to the papers.

Hooray for the British National Health Service

Save your prayers nurses just do your job.










[edit on 20-12-2009 by SmokeJaguar67]

Originally posted by woodwytch
I had taken it upon myself (assumed it was ok), to perform a spell or ritual for one of their relatives without asking if it was ok to do so.

What is prayer but spell and ritual? Just in a different form.

So yes, I can see why someone would get offended when a teacher wants to perform her little spells (in the form of prayer) on the kids.

Originally posted by davesidious
It would be a different story if prayer had actually ever been successful, but every single study performed shows it achieves nothing.

That is the dumbest statement i have ever heard.

Why do home teams do better than when they are away in sports.

This is only because of there fans. the only difference is because they have more fans at home, duh.

Every study bull, the government has proved you wrong.