ATS has been infiltrated with agents of ignorance!

It is possible that the time has come for ATS to have an equivalent to the stars but to the negative, a thumbs down as it were. If so many members are writing silly unintelligent posts that could be considered trolling by some standards, we as members need to let those posters know. And I don't have the time our desire to write a response to every one of them. But I do have time to star or negatively rate them.

Maybe if something like that is implemented these types of threads that are popping up onto the front page every other week will stop. But I fully understand the frustration.

In the BTS forum at times we have tried to have serious discussions in the "Faith" category and in certain threads it seems that somebody always has to come and post "God is a fantasy and the bible is BS", completely trolling the thread with an off topic post that has nothing to do with the thread itself.
The 9/11 forums has a few chronic offenders too.

So believe me I understand the frustration.

From my perspective it is up to ATS to help it's members vent that frustration. I personally like the Digg vote system, it gives you a real feel for how the members actually feel about a particular post.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Wouldn’t work.
If you doubt me just walk into a 911 or chemtrail forum and look at the tag team staring that goes on in those threads simply due to the side that one chooses and not the content of the message. If you did that with X# of bad reviews equaling a ban, then there would simply be no opposition to many of the false or nutty theories that show up this site, and there would be zero opposition left in certain topics. 911 truthers are very well known for playing wolfpack tactics on ATS, I have seen it so many times I could not even begin to count. ATS would be very boring without any arguments, by its very definition a debate board requires that you have two opposing sides of the issue.

we should`nt have a thumbs down because all the shills and ignoranuses will attack the credible thus creating the thumb wars conspiracy

reply to post by defcon5


I don't mean that they should be banned by votes, but if for example in a 9/11 thread certain posts by certain posters have 50 thumbs down then you know how people viewing the thread feel about that particular post.

For example I would not comment on a post that said "Holograms crashed into WTC" I would give it a thumbs down.
Or
Somebody says "WTC7 looks very suspicious" again I would not comment but give it a thumbs up.

There is not to be bans for votes, we still leave that up to the MODS.
However if you get a poster that has a dozen posts in a thread and all there posts have 50 thumbs down, it might motivate a MOD to do something at that point.

reply to post by dodadoom


It's a trick.
You're not his favorite.
It's just a link.
Got me, too.
Smart guy, huh?

reply to post by djusdjus


I hate to break it to you, but storytelling and conjecture are some of the oldest learning tools that humanity possesses.

Conjecture is a dirty word now, is it? Don't try to get Christians to change their minds about their parabels... Those are stories as well.

How can you discover a future not just handed to you, if conjecture is forbidden?

Philosophy is heavily connected to conjecture. Now philosophers are also not considered anything special either, in this day and age.

Not to mention, that storytelling is how humans communicate esoteric concepts, possibilities, and our lives are suffused with the history of storytelling.

I just wish more people understood the words they spoke before they used them.

Do you know the difference between a simplified concept and a simplistic one?

One has no negative connotations, and the other is extremely socially and intellectually damaging should it be used. Both terms are used interchangeably as if there is no difference, and that is why people struggle with job applications, they just use words to get what they want, rather than sitting down and taking the time to remember that these words have original meanings.

You just tried to say that storytelling and conjecture are bad things.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Period.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
I don't mean that they should be banned by votes, but if for example in a 9/11 thread certain posts by certain posters have 50 thumbs down then you know how people viewing the thread feel about that particular post.

We are talking about a forum in which posts as prolific as:

“I telling U it was splosvies”

Get 50+ stars…

It seems that in the United States, intellect has become a vice. Thoughtful consideration is frowned upon and knee-jerk, emotional hysteria is the new patriotism.

Take Gretchen "My shoes are so cute" Carlson for example.
The woman graduated at the top of her class in high school and also at Stanford.
She plays classical violin with the skill of an angel.
She even studied for a time at Oxford. Yes... THAT Oxford.

But she is always playing the role of ordinary concerned mom trying to make sense of the big scary Democratic Congress and White House that she cannot comprehend.

Claiming she didn't know what a Czar was so she had to Google it.
Claiming she didn't know what an ignoramus was so she had to Google that too.

This broad is no dummy. She is in fact sharp as a tack. But the Fox ditto-head crowd hates anyone that even seems intellectual. So she plays dumb for their benefit.
Who knew being a half-wit could be so lucrative?

The chimps are enjoying their moment in the sun... and the once great United States is doomed unless we put the smackdown on the glorification of stupidity.

reply to post by Divine Strake


No people don't have a choice to be as unintelligent as they want to be if they want to continue adding their bits to the gene pool.

That is encouraging ignorance throughout society. Many will say Big Deal!

It is this mentality that kills free speech, allows thugs and bullies to overrun what was once peaceful, and then people with your concept of this idea defend them.

There is no excuse.

The reality is conspiracies and new ideas and philosophies and sciences are just something that you truly have to sustain with your own love and passion for them.

There are some serious conspiracies going on in the world and some serious speculation about them but the notion that there is some definitive hyperlink URL or article that proves or disproves a conspiracy that some of the brightest minds and biggest money are involved in not just trying to make work but to keep it a secret is just a nonsensical notion.

If you are involved in a really big conspiracy the last thing you would want to do is produce evidence that you are!

It would in fact only be used against you, so the reality is there is never any definitive evidence of conspiracies to satisfy and satiate skeptics, yet the history books are full of the results of conspiracies that as they were playing out skeptics swore up and down oh that’s just ‘crazy talk’.

Most people are reluctant to change, most people are reluctant to separate from the herd, and most people are reluctant to part with the illusions that make life comforting to them and provide them some sense of purpose and meaning and direction.

What you are complaining about is simply human nature and the only thing that wears out that kind of resistance is just patient well mannered and thoughtful consistent insistence.

What matters is what you believe, convincing others should only be as important as clearing your own conscious to the extent that you can say, well I put it out there, I said what I feel and know is the truth, I didn’t withhold it for any reason, I did the right thing.

Don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.

Be true to yourself and just realize the universal truth that people’s individual perceptions are their realities right or wrong, good, bad ugly or indifferent.

It really is all about passion and it’s that passion that leads to frustration when you feel it’s unrequited. The real love should be discovering what you believe the truth is and what that means for you and too you. That though is never going to be equal in any other human being, some will accept that truth to a lesser extent, some will accept it to a greater extent.

It’s all about freewill and ultimately even though most people who feel these kind of frustrations and share them don’t quite see it themselves, to have what you want would come at the expense of others freewill.
Takeaway freewill and ultimately the entire thinking process that leads to discovery and greater understanding go out too.

Frustrating to be sure but a necessary evil.

Another complaint thread. Why can't you accept what I am saying without question? I think the answer is if you post here, you will get peer reviewed, even if it's only opinion.If you are lucky, you may get an expert to render an opinion.

As far as the Stoern device, it didn't work 5 years ago, and now the same toy is reintroduced working with a battery, something Bedini seems to have turned into a product years ago. After 5 years this is all Stoern has?

You can't then make the jump and say because some of your peers don't like Stoern they don't believe in ZPE. Gee even wikipedia says

The energy of a cubic centimeter of empty space has been calculated to be one trillionth of an erg [1], based on the upper limit of the cosmological constant.

To me it's still unknown for sure if any of these devices truly tap ZPE yet.

I come to this site to read about interesting observations, not from some propagandist seeking total acceptance of his viewpoint or complaints about the peer review. This is like the tenth whiner post in a month or too.

i have to say, ive seen some real ignorance, but in a way some of it is funny in retrospect.

there are just some people who will not change their beliefs for anything even if the proof is staring at them in the face, ive actually seen some posts that users jump on, like the first 6-10 posts are all saying negative things about the op and the topic, then some type of proof is shown making them all retract their words, which they end up doing, but in the end they still end up saying the same negative debunking theory just in different words


some people dont want knowledge, especially new knowledge, i think whatever studies can be done, should be done, at this stage in human development, with all the crap we are tinkering with, we should have a greater knowledge of many other things



we could have a true honest to god other worldly event, a ufo right on television for the world to see, the news would be covering it, and people would still come on and try to debunk it, and negatively attack anyone with an open mind

Originally posted by Jim Scott
reply to post by dodadoom

 

It's a trick.
You're not his favorite.
It's just a link.
Got me, too.
Smart guy, huh?

Ah, I'm not his favorite? Boo hoo!
Thanks for crushing my ego!
And thanks for your reply!

No, seriously, I called him out on it last night.
While I dont agree with it, I understand his motive now.

Besides anyone who likes Rush is alright in my book!
As far as his smarts goes, they are not mine to judge.
I will be watching him though.

On topic, thanks for the posts everyone!
There are packs of wolfs on both sides of the debates IMO!
You would think the debunkers would leave some room
for doubt in their own minds though.
I am sure there were plenty of debunkers telling Columbus he was a crazy also!

Funny how I have also seen many truthers appologize for something they got wrong,
but I have yet to see a debunker even acknowledge they may not know everything about certain subjects, let alone ever appologize for the blatant derailing attempts, lies, personal attacks and so forth.

They are so afraid of something they feverently deny actually being the truth,
that they will resort to any and all tactics including personal attacks upon others.
Talk about looking and acting highly suspicious!

Like in the chemtrail threads, am I supposed to believe they are up there testing every contrail and suspicious tank on every plane? Right.
That tells me right there who is a grown up about the issues and whether
they could even handle the truth, whatever that may actually be.

Another perfect example is the norway lights.
What, were they actually there when the missle was fired and followed it and they know exactly for sure what happened? Right.

As another mentioned, they can give it up, we arent that dumb.
We reserve judgment, an apparently foreign concept to some.

So many things are not a conspiracy at all, but so many things also ring with some amount of truth.
Getting to the bottom of it is not a bad thing. IMO
Unless of course you have a vested interest in it!



[edit on 19-12-2009 by dodadoom]

This is a very valid point and I've said it before that some of the caveats of ATS is in the technology itself.

Its a garbage problem, meaning the great reply's and posts get the same treatment as the non-nonsensical, derailing or in many cases completely stupid ones.

FIX THE TECHNOLOGY behind ATS, it is outdated.

Look at the current social news media comment related sites. For example reddit.com has great features for comment driven content. They have a system to not only give points and more weight to good posts but up vote comments, AND a very good system of replies and readability.

They are also constantly improving how the system works, what has ATS done, this site is becoming a relic.





[edit on 19-12-2009 by wtfhuh]

Originally posted by rexusdiablos


S&F

@OP: If you're interested on collaborating on an in depth study that investigates who the shills, trolls and non-contributing skeptics are on ATS then I'm your man. Internal analytics and projection are my day jobs.

We can thereafter produce our results to the moderators and a censored version (i.e. no names disclosed) of our summits to the public (i.e. ATS).

It's not something that I'll do myself though I'll definitely delegate the process if anyones willing to collaborate. U2U me if anyone wants to partake privately. We have an opportunity to form a petition that will admonish much of the aggravation currently pervading ATS.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by rexusdiablos]

Figures.
Not only does this poster have an idea and the wherewithall to see it through, he is very willing to help!

Then not only does no one star the post(except me),
he/she gets totally ignored. Perfect.

In case you ever wondered why I picked this name.

We would rather fight each other than fix our problems.
No wonder many feel we are doomed as a species,...
without some serious help anyway.

I though only Ostriches stuck their head in the sand.
It is becoming the status quo.

You are simply frustrated by those you can't convince. There are many things that people hold dear based on what they are taught but still have no real eveidence of (evolution) would be one example that people believe but holds no proof as there is none that is convincing. The same would be held of those who believe in creation as they say 'just look around and try and say that all you see came from nothing' and they have a point too, especially when there there is no progressive proof anywhere of gradual change. Remember here that all dogs breeds are evolution to those a million years from now yet they were all bred by humans.
My point isn't about evolution, it's that you complain about why do people not see the truth. The truth in who's eyes?
Some people purport truth based on a teaching thy've had that when you look at it closely, it complete insanity.
You say people band together to prove a point of view opposite to what is posted. ???? And that seems strange to you? Fancy other people having a different point of view or belief than yourself... what has the world come to?

[edit on 19-12-2009 by daggyz]

Originally posted by downisreallyup
1) If a topic dealing with Zero-Point Energy is introduced, there emerges a raft of people who spring forth claiming "impossible", or "hoax", when they have not introduced one shred of proof that it is a hoax. And no matter what points you bring up to try and convince them, they do not come back with counter-ARGUMENTS, they come back with more epithets of derision. This is highly suspicious of a prejudiced agenda of disinformation, and here is why:

Skepticism does not equal "prejudiced agenda of disinformation." Believe it or not, there is no conspiracy targeting you. This isn't a competition - it's a discussion forum. If you don't like what a person has to say, then don't read it. If you are going to make assertion that is generally considered to be extraordinary, then the burden of proof is going to be on your shoulders to prove it. In contrast, there is NO burden on everyone else to DISPROVE it. Insisting otherwise is a logical fallacy.

What if I started a unicorn thread, arguing that everyone should assume that unicorns exist until this premise is disproved? The only way to disprove this premise would be to search every corner of the universe for unicorns. Does that seem like a fair argument and do you think that is the most efficient use of human time - searching every corner of the universe to disprove every idea? Hint: it's not.

For this reason, the burden will always begin on the shoulders of people presenting new ideas. Prove it the best you can and respond to real criticism. Ignore trolls. All scientific advancement made by our species has been driven by scientific skepticism. The scientific method requires everyone to actively try to disprove new theories. It's only by surviving this process that a hypothesis becomes an accepted theory and eventually a law. If you don't like this method, then perhaps science is not the best topic to be discussing. The scientific method is here to stay.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by daggyz
You are simply frustrated by those you can't convince. There are many things that people hold dear based on what they are taught but still have no real eveidence of (evolution) would be one example that people believe but holds no proof as there is none that is convincing.
[edit on 19-12-2009 by daggyz]

This forum has hosted evolution debates many times. There are entire college courses just on evolution. Evolution has plenty of evidence. Just because you would prefer to keep your head in the sand, hiding pleasantly in ignorance doesn't mean that the evidence does not exist.

I myself have spent hours trying to convince people like yourself to get an education and it typically has no effect whatsoever. I suggest you begin with the question of why you must continue taking antibiotics even after you start feeling better. Ask your doctor or do a 2 minute google search.

You won't do this simple task however because you prefer to remain ignorant. That's your choice but I won't remain silent as you try to spread your ignorance to others.

If reading is too complicated for you, I suggest searching Google video for a PBS miniseries called "Evolution" - probably one of the best compilations I've seen. Perhaps you are the one with an "idea held dearly." Evolution is a fact and it is observable in real time. In the long term, it is recorded in our genetics and the fossil record. Almost every bite of food you've ever eaten has likely been produced as a result of selective breeding and agricultural engineering (manmade evolution that is driven by our own demands). To argue against evolution while simultaneously reaping the benefits of man's harnessing of its power makes you nothing less than a hypocrite.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by andrewh7]

I agree AND disagree with the OP at the same time. I hve noticed users attacking others when they post something that is nothing more than a "this is what happen to me and I'd like your thoughts" type of post. At no time does the OP state what they think was actually going on, yet they are bashed for thinking its this or that. HOWEVER, there are several members who come on here and post that "This is the real answer to (add any conspiracy here)" and it is THEIR thoughts and ideas not someone elses, yet they are so far off base that when nearly every single person who reads the post knows the person is way off tells them and even explains it to them, they are wrong for "attacking" the OP. Common sense is ignored more than a greased up deaf guy running through Times Square, yet when all it takes is common sense to see that the OP is wrong and refuses to aknowledge that they are wrong, a flame war breaks out.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by sirdumpsalot]

Originally posted by A52FWY
Another complaint thread. Why can't you accept what I am saying without question? I think the answer is if you post here, you will get peer reviewed, even if it's only opinion.If you are lucky, you may get an expert to render an opinion.

As far as the Stoern device, it didn't work 5 years ago, and now the same toy is reintroduced working with a battery, something Bedini seems to have turned into a product years ago. After 5 years this is all Stoern has?

You can't then make the jump and say because some of your peers don't like Stoern they don't believe in ZPE. Gee even wikipedia says

The energy of a cubic centimeter of empty space has been calculated to be one trillionth of an erg [1], based on the upper limit of the cosmological constant.

To me it's still unknown for sure if any of these devices truly tap ZPE yet.

I come to this site to read about interesting observations, not from some propagandist seeking total acceptance of his viewpoint or complaints about the peer review. This is like the tenth whiner post in a month or too.

So, then what you explained, is + - 0 ? Balance? It can not be sourced, only measured?

Shatner = emotional.....Nimoy=logical
We're all alittle Shatmoy now arent we?