The Frightening Rise Of Christian Persecution

reply to post by HankMcCoy

Actually, I gotta just chime in here... That wasn't the Christian's Book, that was our Book. Jesus didn't actually say ANYTHING about homosexuals.. not one word. He got pretty pissed about people using the temple as a shopping mall, but nothing about homosexuals.

I am aware of this and also that this character is claimed to have said " Sooner will heaven and earth pass away than one letter of the law -----"


The fact remains that xtians claim that this jesus is one and the same being as yahwhe and Yahweh allegedly does not change his mind.


I don't give a flying monkeys either way, but when people start spouting this BS as truth without any (or the requirement of) corroborative evidence and try to get little children to believe the same then their asking for trouble.

I think it is better for kids to learn something about the Bible and its meaning, give them something else and I bet it can never hold the same moral ground, I don't think TV or cartoons or UFO Aliens are going to do it for them. In other countries children are forced to recite passages on a national scale with punishments if they don't. If that happened in the Christian past then it should be held to shame, if certain churches have a learning curve or like the Catholics do with communion it does not affect too much the mind of a child or teenager, I am sure the streets have more knowledge of good and bad in them.

Christianity does not have to be extreme, it is not overly ritualistic, Christ is within us and people learn a good spiritual message, but now that has become politically incorrect and people in high places would rather do away with it as a must and seen as an invisible offence.

Politicians give Muslims in Europe high praises to their sensitivities, I know some have woken up a bit but some are fighting back at the slow erosion of freedom and culture but the damage has been done, together they want to do away with any reminders of Christianity, if that happens in Europe then America where else does the freedom and heritage of this religion go? Does it go underground and will people start to be persecuted by it like they do in Korea and build underground churches?

In the end it is either we keep what was here or we lose it or the it will be a some civil war brewing. Maybe the war is not with ammunition but with fear tactics. The atheists might be able to get rid of Christianity because of their passive kindness not to fight back in today’s understanding of it but they will find a harder job telling Muslims and teenage Satanists where to go without themselves in being fear and the double standards won't hold much weight in the eyes of believers.

We hear how Muslims prefer grave yards that do not have crosses in them, we know how they are offended by crosses in schools in Italy and in Europe but their fear mongering still wins when it comes to upsetting their culture or religion, be it even if they block your road and path when they pray outside or demand certain laws at work and take you to court. You have to say do the open numbers of immigration and illegal immigration serve a purpose which is to take away the basic morals of Christianity so they can sin their way up to becoming richer as nations doing more immoral works behind closed doors without having to assess their own nature and guilt.

I am starting to think that there is really two different races on earth, some are children of God and some the children of the Devil. The time will come when there will be two different distinctions and you will see it evidently in what they deny or say and behave.

The long term is not looking great, people might think WW3 in Europe would start because people will unite against the separatist views by Muslims and atheists but my bet is that they will unite against Christianity itself and there will be no more places for the faith to find the save haven while many Christians flee their countries across the world.

Hopefully the rapture should take place once it gets out of hand, that way people can fight amongst themselves and their true heart that does want them finally off the planet and will come literally in the form of the rapture.

Let it happen as it was predicted with all the nations set in place like a world stage foreseen thousands of years ago with the faithless and led astray fulfilling the events.

reply to post by pause4thought

Moocowman - I'm afraid you once again demonstrate how adept you are at misrepresenting the Christian faith.

Sir, I do not in any way set out to misrepresent xtianity, I merely comment and question its' representatives and documentation.

The representatives of the christian religion on the whole condemn men for entering into a physical sexual relationship with each other.


The claim is that, this act of "free will" contravenes the laws of their deity ie Yahwhejesus and is a crime punishable by death.

Nowhere does the documentation mention this law being revoked, in fact the opposite is true as when yahweh comes to earth in the guise of jesus he clearly states that not one letter of the law is to be changed.

It is all well and good going about claiming how homosexuals are welcomed by xtianity with open arms but they are still required to be put to death.

It is an insult to human intelligence to patronize homosexuals with loving embrace, knowing full well that they will be tortured for all eternity if they do not stop being homosexuals.

Christian literature ie the bibles, that are used to persuade people to becomes xtians make it quite clear that a homosexual will suffer one way or another for being what he or she is.


This kind of literature is repugnant not only because it condemns an individuals life choices but declares them a crime.

reply to post by The time lord

I think it is better for kids to learn something about the Bible and its meaning,

Why ?? Why not the Koran ? Who decides the meaning of the bibles, when their proponents cannot even agree amongst themselves the meaning ?

Why would you have children taught things that are clearly untrue ?

give them something else and I bet it can never hold the same moral ground, I don't think TV or cartoons or UFO Aliens are going to do it for them.

Why have you omitted their own parents here ? Are you claiming that children can only learn moral values from bronze age myths cartoons and aliens but not from their parents ?

In other countries children are forced to recite passages on a national scale with punishments if they don't. If that happened in the Christian past then it should be held to shame,

Christianity was founded on this, it should not so much hang it's head in shame but be decapitated for it.

if certain churches have a learning curve or like the Catholics do with communion it does not affect too much the mind of a child or teenager,

Really ? No doubt these children will turn out just fine then ?------

reply to post by zarp3333

Here are perhaps fellow Christians, being justly persecuted! ...Please take a time-out. You will like it.
I promise...www.youtube.com...

reply to post by moocowman


They are CLEARLY TRUE. (to me and others with a spiritual eye.)


That first video, is the charismatic movement. Which I don't adhere to.
But at any rate I dont have sound on my computer, so I don't know for sure.

That second video of Korean Christians COULD be children that are praying for their fellow North Korean Christians, whose children are forced into the streets to die of starvation after their parents are put in gulags!
It's forbidden for anyone to care for them.

The Jesus camp has been done to death around here and DOESN'T represent most Christianity around the U.S., but you wouldn't care about that.

reply to post by Clearskies

They are CLEARLY TRUE. (to me and others with a spiritual eye.)

So which parts of the bibles are true ?

reply to post by moocowman


ALL PARTS are TRUE! and.............

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by moocowman

 

ALL PARTS are TRUE! and.............

So it is true that up to 2 million Hebrew people, (600000 armed men) were enslaved in Egypt (population approx 3 million) escaped their bondage in one mass exodus pursued by the Egyptian army and spent 40 years in the dessert ?

Please provide evidence if this is true Clearskies

reply to post by Parallex

Me and my family happily persecute Christians

Oh what a pitifully ignorant comment.

Then again Jesus said of the Pagan Roman soldiers who had just drove spikes into his flesh, "forgive them father for they do not know what they do", he pleaded with his father to excuse them for their "ignorance".

But this behavior was foretold by Jesus anyway, so if you have no persecution as a christian then it makes one wonder is your form of worship accurate, perhaps it's too accommodating to the political correctness that is sweeping the West these days.


John 15:20

Do you remember what I told you? 'A slave is not greater than the master.' Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you.

2 Timothy 3:11-13

11Persecutions, sufferings--such as occurred to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra, persecutions I endured, but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12Indeed all who delight in piety and are determined to live a devoted and godly life in Christ Jesus will meet with persecution [will be made to suffer because of their religious stand].
13But wicked men and imposters will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and leading astray others and being deceived and led astray themselves.

Psalm 129:2

From my earliest youth my enemies have persecuted me, but they have never defeated me.

1 Peter 4:4

Unbelievers insult you now because they are surprised that you no longer join them in the same excesses of wild living.

1 Peter 3: 14-17

14But even in case you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, [you are] blessed (happy, to be envied). Do not dread or be afraid of their threats, nor be disturbed [by their opposition].
15But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.
16[And see to it that] your conscience is entirely clear (unimpaired), so that, when you are falsely accused as evildoers, those who threaten you abusively and revile your right behavior in Christ may come to be ashamed [of slandering your good lives].
17For [it is] better to suffer [unjustly] for doing right, if that should be God's will, than to suffer [justly] for doing wrong.

This is the path of true Christianity, to deny it, means denial of prophetic scripture, and that leads to a sabotaged form of Christianity equivalent to the "weeds" Jesus spoke of being gathered with the wheat during the final harvest. Yet the weeds get burned, not by forces opposing God, but by the reapers(Angels) See Matthew 13: 24-30

originally posted by moocowman

I think it is better for kids to learn something about the Bible and its meaning,

Why ?? Why not the Koran ? Who decides the meaning of the bibles, when their proponents cannot even agree amongst themselves the meaning ?

It's called religious freedom. Very common in the U.S. where I live.
Each to his own understanding. It's remarkable. Why do you have such a difficult time allowing others to exercise this right?

You ask the same questions over and over again, in thread after thread, and still you have no understanding? Perhaps it's time to let go of it.

You are more obsessed with religion than anyone I have ever known.

Some Children learn different methods in religion no where does the New testament or the words of Jesus say bring pain to them believing it or forcing it even on children.

Ephesians 6
1Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Of course the Old Testament has some primative laws and documenatation of history, but that spans thousands of years with changes within it and the New Testament through Jesus teachers another example as an updated newer culture which is for the gentiles.

These videos below show how deep extreamism can go in the name of religion, the Christians in Jesus camp are a lot tamer and kinder. But once you add things to the international scale like Iran then the so called brainwashing is an accepted part of society with no other views in between, this is why when someone draws a Muhammad cartoon in Denmark the who Middle East and Africa erupts and churches and Embassies are burned down.




I think these children will learn how to defend them selves against those Jesus camp ones if they ever meet and their outlooks would be different.



The is a difference in method of teaching, you don't have to force it, you can make it fun and it can never be back tracked in using extreame verses if there is any that Jesus spoke of personally so there is no excuse if someone tries to say so and who is will beperverting the truth of it.

You can learn it at school but of course prayers might offend minority faiths today, you can sing hymes, but now they probably don't either, you can have crosses as reminders, they probably don't either now. My guess is who will teach them if the next generation never knows about it? If the greatest method is to save your soul and your children then it is damning that we deny them that right to know.



I feel sorry for those who really demand eradication of faith.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by moocowman

Yes, quite the evidence.
But were the hebrews aka Hyksos or Hibiru?
www.bbc.co.uk...

Were the Hebrews in Egypt?

The story goes that Moses led two million Hebrews out of Egypt and they lived for 40 years in the Sinai desert - but a century of archaeology in the Sinai has turned up no evidence of it. If the Hebrews were never in Egypt then perhaps the whole issue was fiction, made up to give their people an exotic history and destiny.

Some archeologists decided to search instead in the Nile Delta: the part of Egypt where the Bible says the Hebrews settled.

They combed the area for evidence of a remarkably precise claim - that the Hebrews were press-ganged into making mud-bricks to build two great cities - Pithom and Ramses. Ramses II was the greatest Pharaoh in all of ancient Egypt - his statues are everywhere. Surely his city could be traced? But no sign could be found. There were suggestions it all been made up by a scribe.

Until a local farmer found a clue: the remains of the feet of a giant statue. An inscription on a nearby pedestal confirmed that the statue belonged to Ramses II. Eventually, archeologists unearthed traces of houses, temples, even palaces. Using new technology, the archaeologists were able to detect the foundations and they mapped out the whole city in a few months. The city they had discovered was one of the biggest cities in ancient Egypt, built around 1250BCE. 20,000 Egyptians had lived there.

But was this city actually built by Hebrew slaves? There is a reference in ancient Egyptian documents to a Semitic tribe captured by Pharaoh and forced to work on the city of Ramses. A clay tablet lists groups of people who were captured by the Pharaoh and one of the groups was called Habiru. Could these be the Hebrews? No-one can be sure.

Egyptologist Jim Hoffmeier studied the original Hebrew text. He found that key words in the story - bulrushes, papyrus, Nile, riverbank - were all ancient Egyptian words, and not Babylonian.

www.touregypt.net...

Merenptah's victory over the Libyans in his fifth year on the throne (about 1209 or 1208 BC), the king boasts of his victories over various peoples and places in Syria-Palestine. Here, he claims, with the common exaggeration of royal inscriptions, that "Israel is desolate, and has no seed".

The Bible tells us that Moses belonged to a large group of Semitic settlers whose ancestors had arrived in Egypt from the land of Canaan. This rings very true, for archaeological evidence shows that such groups of people from Canaan were settling in parts of the Eastern Delta from around the middle of Egypt's 12th Dynasty. Evidence has been unearthed, for example at Tell el-Dab'a in the Delta, that these newcomers were of mixed origin, including pastorial nomads like the Hebrews described in Genesis 47:1-11. Though we cannot positively identify Israel's ancestors in Egypt, it is intriguing to note that during the 17th century BC the site of Tell el-Dab'a was developed a the Hyksos capital known as Avaris, and in the 13th century BC, it was absorbed by the sprawling city of Piramesse, which had its center a short distance to the north.

It should also be noted that the route chosen by the escaping Israelites, from Piramesse to Tjeku (biblical Succoth: Exodus 12:37) and eastwards, was precisely the same that was used by two escaping slaves of the late 13th century BC, as reported in Papyrus Anastasi V.

reply to post by Clearskies


You've not provided evidence of 2 million hebrews being held captive against their will in Egypt or the exodus of said people.

The incredible numbers are a logistical nightmare and the fact that 600,000 of these slaves were armed men causes even more problems.

It is clear that there was for all intents and purposes a somewhat sporadic exodus from Egypt but these were not jews these were "Egyptians" turfed out of Akhetaten under the instrucation of Ay.

These events " were"recorded by the Egyptians yet mysteriously no one noticed 2 million slaves disappearing ?

The population of Egypt being approx 3 million and 2 million slaves escape with not a word of it being recorded ?

Ask yourself this - how are 600,000 armed men ie (fighting men) slaves at the same time ?

The bibles Exodus is not corroborated in anyway by Egyptian text which tells a completely different story altogether.

The bible exodus simply did not happen and you've not provided proof this . Egypt has been investigated by archeologists probably more than any other place on the planet there is not a trace of 2 million Hebrew slaves to be found.

It would appear the the exodus story is a convoluted tale of the end of the Armana cult which is indeed recorded and seem to point to the early Hebrews being none other than the remnants of the monotheistic cult of Akhetaten the very first recorded incident of monotheism.

reply to post by moocowman


nnooo, not akhenaten.
it was the hyskos shepherd kings.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

You ask the same questions over and over again, in thread after thread, and still you have no understanding? Perhaps it's time to let go of it.

Nope I make the same observations over and over, there is no evidence for the claims made by xtianity and I'm not looking for understanding I would just like other people to keep their delusions to themselves.

You are more obsessed with religion than anyone I have ever known.

I'm no more obsessed than xtians are at continually shoving their beliefs down other peoples throats and trying to get my children to join their club.

So indeed, so long as there are people knocking my door or going to schools telling me or my kids that we should live this way or that I will get off my fat ares and take issue with them.

So long as there are people that would attempt to persuade my child that he or she would be committing an "abomination" for living their life as they see fit, I will open my mouth.

So long as there are people who would try and influence my government into creating laws to prevent an invisible guy in the sky from being offended, I will endeavor to kick ass.

Indeed, I will meet obsession in equal proportion to secure my families right to be free of religious superstitions in our lives.

Having said that I would still obsessively campaign for you to believe whatever you wish all i ask in return is that you keep it to yourself.

I don't want to go into another direction but here is a pretty good website about the Moses, there are so many archeology books that back up Bible history.

www.arkdiscovery.com...

They have found chariot wheels in the RedSea and the Split rock at Mount Sinai the evidence just keeps on building not declining and world powers will try and oppress it, you won't hear it on the News any more and you won't have easy access in Islamic countries either even Temple Mount is too sensitive.

Mount Sinai has been fenced off by Saudi Arabia, I wonder why? They say it could be a different mountain, no doubt if I have not been there how would I know.


[edit on 21-12-2009 by The time lord]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by moocowman

 

nnooo, not akhenaten.
it was the hyskos shepherd kings.

Although the period is somewhat fraught with complications in relation to the Hyskos there is no question as to the incident of Tel El Armana.


It could be questioned as to how much influence the Hyksos would have over Akehetaten or perhaps he was of hyksos decent.

What is clear and recorded is that there was a sudden appearance of monotheism in Egypt which would have sent shock waves throughout the nation particularly with the priestly class of Thebes.

Eventually Akehetaten was destroyed and over a period it's inhabitants a mixed bunch including many priests and great wealth were exiled from the religious capitol this being initiated by Ay.

For all intents and purposes what the exodus story appears to be describing is the exile of the Atenians which does make a great deal of sense given the recorded events of Tell El Armana.

Egypt did not record 2 million monotheistic proto jews fleeing but it did record the Atenians leaving a people torn between the Aten and the old gods of thebes.

A clear indicator of the Thebian ways is the incident with Aaron worshiping the the golden calf a very obvious representation of Hathor.

Incidentally in order to make a golden calf one has to have gold to begin with, it stretched credulity to the limit that slaves would have amounts of yet would be expected if the people in question were exiled Akhetatians.

I don't have time to go into more detail but suffice to say that the book of Exodus has Tel el Armana written all over it.

reply to post by The time lord

I don't want to go into another direction but here is a pretty good website about the Moses, there are so many archeology books that back up Bible history.

They certainly don't back up the bible story, the artifacts are "Egyptian" what this misleading website ignores is that Cannan would have been a province of Pharoh and a logical place for the remnants of Tel El Armana to reestablish the cult of the Aten.

Christianity has forgotten that it's central theme is "christ-likeness". If the bible holds any truth regarding the works of Y'hoshua, then we should be following his example by wandering the wastelands in prayer and keeping company with the outcasts of society. I'm not talking about an hour at a soup-kitchen once a week, either. Nightly return to a life of comfort and illusory 'stability' will keep you at that 'rich man' phase that leads to your complete inability to 'enter into the kingdom'.

If you spend more time telling others that you have the answers that can save them than you do using those answers to save yourself, then you're probably using the information you've been given unwisely.

I believe that if you attempt to force your views upon anyone else, regardless of your intentions, that they have the right to tell you to shove off. No one can tell you what to believe (in fact, I know for a fact that nearly every professed christian has an entirely different view of christianity than nearly every other professed christian) so why not work on yourself and strive towards what you feel to be true?