Alchemy: The Philosopher's Stone

reply to post by lateralus11235

I will say this:
In alchemy, the abstract represents the concrete, which means..
the concrete represents the abstract.

And I will say this: you're completely missing the point.

Mercury, the substance that they change (usually)

...and women are impregnated by men, usually.

Mercury
is a volatile substance.

...and women are capable of being pregnant. You're not saying anything here.

following me on all this?

No. Overall, I have no clue what your point is.

Reminds me a little of dualism.. yin and yang...

And exponential growth reminds me of addition. But would that be a step forward?

Alchemy is full of allegories. When they speak of converting quicksilver
into gold, they speak of something metaphorical.

Some may be. But the point isn't to be secretive or metaphorical. There's no need to "hide" the truth. Truth can be paraded in front of your face with mile-high neon signs and a marching band, but that doesn't help you if you don't perceive it.

Alchemical processes are processes. If you wish to use these processes on chemicals to transmute one material to another, that's fine. But if you want to use them to change the nature of your self, that works too.

Saying that the teachings are allegorical might not be incorrect. But it's missing the point. If I teach you how to walk, it doesn't matter if you choose to walk to the north or to the south. The process of walking north is not different than the process of walking south.

If you know how to run water through a filter, you know how to remove pollutants from your spirit. But for the person who cannot perceive spirit, it is easier to work first with water.

something concrete = abstract, abstract = concrete

Information that is so completely vague as to be useless and probably misleading. Thank you for sharing it.


prepared4truth...be cautious of these people. They are here to aid you by knocking you off your path.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by prepared4truth

 

Am I correct in thinking that reality is just one big event
split into many different much smaller events?

It is not for me or anyone else to tell you what is correct. The point is not "answering" what is reality, but "deciding" what is reality.

Then we simply take your answer and distill, filter and refine it until it can be distilled, filtered and refined no more. The answer you ultimately come to will be your own.

true...
I think that after I write a few texts, I may grasp my own concept of reality much better.
I intend to travel the world as well, alchemist2012. i am still young and going through college, but i hope to move out of country sometime in august next year.
I do have questions though. to start...
Where do I begin? ive read quite a few texts, and ive definitely noticed changes in my life in accordance to understanding and applying what I've learned. But the same points seem to be reiterated consistently, as if there's something obviously hanging in front of my face that I can see, but cannot master. Such as LordBuckets reference to alchemical purification procedure.
All I ask is for a starting point. I know I have to refine my reality, but I don't know what to refine.

Reality's omens are what lead me to gain and spread knowledge here.

And I see your point.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by prepared4truth]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by prepared4truth]

Reality is unique to every person. I have refined what my Reality is to be this:

I have a consciousness which is connected to my mind.
There is creation.

The only things I can definitely say about Reality which applies to all are those things.

reply to post by prepared4truth

I have refined what my Reality is to be this:

I have a consciousness which is connected to my mind.
There is creation.

Forgive me, but you appear still to be describing reality rather than telling me what it is.

I have a consciousness which is connected to my mind.

Ok. And you've previously explained that consciousness is "the state of living/perception that can be advanced into further dimensions." But we're still left wondering what is your mind. We can ask this and we may need to...but at this point, explaining what is mind won't clarify to me your explanation of what is reality.

There is creation.

Ok. And presumably there is consciousness, and presumably there is mind. But simply stating that these things are and that they real-ate to one another doesn't explain what real-ity is.

What is reality?


[edit on 21-5-2010 by LordBucket]

I have put my inquiring thoughts through the elements in an attempt to reach fire. This is what I have recorded:

What is Reality?

There is consciousness. There is mind. There is creation.

These things relate to one another through different planes. My mind may create my consciousness. They all affect one another's existence.

Creation can be found in anything. My mind is conscious, but my consciousness is separate from my mind. The opposite of reality is anything that does not exist on any plane. What confuses me about what reality is is that it is everything and nothing.

Reality is the compilation of states of existence that I may know or may be beyond my perception. I hope to have shed some light on real.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by prepared4truth]

[edit on 21-5-2010 by prepared4truth]

From what I understand, searching for the Philosopher's Stone is a dangerous practice, much like searching for the Holy Grail or practicing witchcraft. Heavy involvement with these things has the potential for turning your brain into a puddle of confused mush. Some of this has to do with the fact that over the years these subjects have been purposely and accidentally clouded by just such people who have lost their minds to chemical exposure, overwork, or just plain old paranoia. Some of it has to do with the fact that what you're essentially doing is mixing two kinds of reality -- symbolic and physical -- in ways that don't exactly or rationally work.

The bottom line is that even if you were able to somehow transmute base metals into gold, it's unlikely that it would be worth your time and effort to do it. The most precious (or worthless, depending how you look at it) thing you have in life is time. And it's way too easy to waste it poking around in dark corners.

From what I have studied of Alchemy, I find it to be a very useful practice. I hope to find myself through it and I have been making substantial progress to this goal since beginning.

As far as time is concerned, energy is never lost in this universe. Time is contained within the universe, which constantly creates energy. I find this to mean that no matter what actions I take, as long as I decide something I am never wasting time. I am using a portion of this particularly limited existence to discover what is essential to myself, whether it is relevant to anyone else or not.

Even though there's no way I could know for sure (seeing as this body has not "died" yet) I would like to think that my efforts are immortal and never destroyed or wasted.

reply to post by prepared4truth

What is Reality?

Reality is the compilation of states of existence
that I may know or may be beyond my perception.

Ahh. An answer. Ok. So then, continuing from where we left off, you said:

Physical is our vessel's perception of reality.
Spiritual is what is real.

Now that you have refined your meaning for reality, do you wish to revise or reexamine your meanings for physical and spiritual?

Or are you content with them?

Physical and spiritual are just two different planes of Reality.
Physical would be the reality attached to my mind.
Spiritual would be the reality attached to my consciousness.

reply to post by prepared4truth

Physical and spiritual are just two different planes of Reality.
Physical would be the reality attached to my mind.
Spiritual would be the reality attached to my consciousness.

It has been my intention to honor your request. But I am now of the opinion that I cannot give you what you need. For you, it may be necessary to see the pyramids yourself. I cannot merely tell you what they look like.

Read this book.

I have read this book not too long ago. A friend of mine felt like it would interest me. It's a very wise book and now that I think back, it is exactly what I have to do. I thought that I might not be prepared for my journey yet, but you're right.
I have to see it for myself. I've gotta see the world. I wonder where my pyramids are?
Thank you. Namaste.

I agree with those who say there is no physical stone. I admit I have not studied a LOT about alchemy, but I have studied some about it. I also agree there are two aspects of alchemy, both as a science, and also as an esoteric, or spiritual work, if you will.

The Great Work is said by some authors to be not the transmutation of lead into gold, but the enlightenment of the alchemist himself.

I agree, also, with Lord Bucket when he says there is no correct answer. just answers. And I will expand on that and say that you shouldn't look here for answers, but for clues to continue your own research and reach your own conclusions. Even an opinion you don't agree with could become helpful. So, read all these posts and do with them as you wish.

A few clues I can give you from my readings is to research the name: Fulcanelli. He is said to be the last true alchemist in the world and wrote a book about how the Nothredame Cathedral is filled with symbolisms related to alchemy.

I have also bought this weird thin book from a vendor in Paris, near Nothredame, which is supposed to be the real final chapter of Don Quixote. According to this vendor, Don Quixote was written as an allegory related to alchemy.

That´s all I can help you with. Good luck.


[edit on 25-5-2010 by henriquefd]

reply to post by prepared4truth

I wonder where my pyramids are?

In a thread dated 3-5-2010 @ 03:17 PM, prepared4truth said:

my current travels to the East

Thank you. Namaste.

It has pleased me to be of service. Namaste.

being a bhuddist alchemist, i dont believe that the stone is "real" in terms of this dimension, but is moe of a brand, a mark of passage into immortality, when you can finally turn the "lead" of earth into the "gold" of heaven.

i have believed this for a decade, and did at one point watch that anime. i found it interesting that the stones turned out being made of human souls. its almost like you would be a "living" philosophers stone when you have finished learning what you can from your multiple lifetimes here.

i believe that there is a philosophers stone that is very real, just not in a dimension we can see, yet i believe it can be felt, and can have a very real impact on a person's life entirely. i have found mine, and changed drastically, overnight.

it comes with wisdom, and is a gift to the truly good of our existance. after all, the path of good is infinitely harder on this planet than evil, and deception, selfishness. only those actually willing to sacrifice themselves to save someone else have the ability to find the truth (another common theme in fma) the problem is...you cant fake it. its not like you can half-commit and expect to recieve your stone, you cant lie to the universe..

if you are genuine though, maybe you find your philosophers stone. maybe your life will change as much as mine has.


second off. what if previous lives do charge this "philosophers stone?" what if you do not need a complete stone to turn lead into gold, but depending on how charged it is, effect how much can be transmuted, and how easily.
this would mean that those who are the closest to their "end-life" have the most control over what manifests in their current lifetime. it would account for many of the strange things i have experienced. it also reinforces the facts that i see people everyday who are so out of touch with themselves or maybe their "philosophers stone" that they have utterly no control over their life, and break like palms in a hurricane. and on the other side of the coin, the more at peace someone is with themselves, the more they accept their station, the more things just seem to fall into place for them.

i believe with enough study, you would see many of these things to be true when dealing with people.

those few who know their place and the world around it have exponentially more respect for life, or fate, destiny seem to be the gods of their own existence. i know there are many on this site even though they will not read this. there are many philosopher stones. enough for everyone actually.

ill tell you what, if you ever find one, you will also find you will gravitate towards people that have one as well, in similar strength (charges, as i mentioned earlier)

Then what do you make of the history of alchemy where chemical experiments and profound knowledge of the mineral / metallic realm indisputably in order to deduce movements inherent to all its production?
Like Geber who artificially manufactured cinnabar, a red compound, formed by the union of sulfur and mercury in the eighth- to ninth-century. As many who are a bit learned in the matter know, searching and experimenting, erring and discovering, in a philosophical intent to accomplish the Great Work and knowledge of the all in all, caused the sprout and flourishing of all modern sciences.
Maybe too, those who designated themselves as adepts here will understand that the hermetic (read Hermes-Mercury, God Knowledge and Wisdom) Philosophy and Science, AND Art, is an all-in-one conception and motivation in vision, and like the trunk or stem sprouts out many branches towards a finitude, so has the hermetic gnosis and science; this primal conscience that religion and faith (read synthesis), science and rationality (read division), were but two vocabularies and aspects of one World and one Existence in their whole, given birth to determinisms in time as volatile, free and living human souls slowly fixated and coagulated, took forms etc..
"Science of sciences", "Art of arts", a unanimous reverence to this work as most difficult and a proven mark of unity between the High and the Low, terrestrial and scientific knowledge bound to and united with its celestial and philosophical counterpart, the study of cause and effect chained together into such a sound vision that we end up knowing metals to grow like flowers although very slowly, producing different tinctures, and as living productions, they need too "spirit" (read humid) for circulation, digestion, separation of terrestrial sulfuric crudities as do we by gastric acids which separate the "caput mortum" into the toilet, while the pure medicinal part turns into white chyle, and tincts itself in red plasma, our own blood in the heart. We have therefore separated life from death, and have fed off of life, it became our own life and continuation of movement and (possibly) ennobling.
Alchemy is synonymous with all movements inherent in Creation as a whole.
And its most tangible expression is chemical knowledge as the Great Work is an al (read philosophical, or canonic, sacred) chemy (black earth, name given to Egypt, as a philosophical earth to cultivate).
A simple and Fulcanellious exemple of this is the astounding fact that chemistry, revendicating itself as a pretty universal science, will compound and conjecture upon purely observable and tangible facts and produce us equations like 2H + O = H2O, what is great here, is that if you put these two gases, hydrogen and oxygen, together they will never produce water by themselves. Unless, agitated, by heat, which will give movement and commixtion according to a gyratory movement by proportion, to give central density to droplets which will augment according to the strength of the heat communicated. Here, this heat, Fire, is the spiritual, causal agent and catalyst for this transformation (as for all other) to take place without which all would be fixed and without mouvement and excitation, i.e. Life itself.
So chemistry does not deduce any philosophical nor causal movement whatsoever, it gives us a truncated and petrified representation of life's biggest mystery, forgetting completely about this universal agent of all things.
Meanwhile Faith does the opposite and focalize almost only on this agent which they identify with and call Spirit or Soul which always was deified as the Universal Cause for All things, and forget completely, sometimes all the way to total ascetism, the present reality of a physical world to which we are intricately chained.
Also Mercury was a god of many things (he had to be!) since he is the chief communicator of virtues in the Great Work, he is the god of thieves naturally now we know why, the god of communication, the god of knowledge (as knowledge generates through communication), commerce and wisdom (as he is the one who shows the way to it), the most prone to communicating inferior virtues to the superior and the superior's through the inferior (as our own water cycle, always sublimating to feed the earth and produce life by commixtion of earth and water as bodies, air and fire (heat) as agents.
Dei Lucrii, was he too named as the ancient deity of exchange and profit, as Alchemy, and the possibility to produce gold had always been of royal and imperial privilege, and the only means of building hierarchies by instauring gold, other metals and precious gems as social currency around a center which knows to give or take when it pleases. Dei Lucrii too because of the Great Work's true profit, which is a healthy life without any specter of pain, ("souffrir" in french-sulfur) because it was vainquished through the Work, and gave out its intimate treasures. The Stone is a tangible chemical body, red which can be pulverized when dry and liquefied when warmed, it is a fixed fusible, metallic Salt, and our mines' gold digested to a purity and life uncomparable to what nature can produce on its own, without the Philosopher's artifice.