Hitler was NOT an occultist

Hitler was a bold-faced liar when he claimed Christianity, similar to how George W. Bush claims Christianity and then goes to Bohemian Grove to put on his red KKK suit and chant at the 40 foot owl.

The Nazi party developed out of the Thule Society.

Hitler attacked other occult groups because he didn't want the other occult groups threatening him, and he understood the threat of occult power very well because he utilized it himself to spectacular success.

The Nazis were trying to bring back pagan culture and religion, and the entire Master Race idea is occultic, not Darwinist.

Here is a great article on this subject.

www.mt.net...

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by 2000 Yards

 

Well, you have to look at how slanted an opinion is presented at times. People always want to associate the occult with Satanism. What is funny about that is that most occultists don't even believe in Satan!!

Now, that is beyond the scope of this thread, but it is a good example of how western culture has an obsession with demonizing the occult.

Most occultists have fooled themselves into believing that the demons they are messing with are nature spirits, or UFO Space Brothers, or Care Bears or something, so you are correct in saying that many do not believe in Satan.

Lots of occultists however, they all know very well that Satan exists, but usually they call him Lucifer and make him out to be the actual good guy trying to free humanity from a tyrannical God.

And then there are the occultists who are just evil and loving it, and they know full well that Satan is the bad guy and they get off on killing babies and that kind of thing in exchange for power.

reply to post by Chainmaker



Yeah, yeah.... Remain asleep. While the Christian and Muslim countries threaten the world with their over zealous desire for a nuclear Armageddon, keep on telling yourself it's really occultists who are "eeeeevil."

The blindness of the masses amazes me. It really does.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Chainmaker

 

Yeah, yeah.... Remain asleep. While the Christian and Muslim countries threaten the world with their over zealous desire for a nuclear Armageddon, keep on telling yourself it's really occultists who are "eeeeevil."

The blindness of the masses amazes me. It really does.

The Christian countries are actually "Christian" countries. True Christianity is not organized religion, and probably most of the people that claim Christianity are fakes, and some of them are deliberate fakes, like Hitler and W Bush.

Western culture, encompassing the countries you call Christian, is now for the most part anything but. Many polls are taken showing the steady decline in the West of people who claim Christianity, the numbers of atheists/agnostics, occultists and Muslims are skyrocketing.

Islam is a false religion, as is Catholicism, and true Christians are few. Jesus said his followers were on the narrow path, that the path to destruction was wide.

The wars of the world have to do not with any certain false religions, but with the evil of human nature, and the manipulations of elites who are very often.....occultists. The Nazi party grew out of The Thule Society, and the leaders of "Christian" America are involved in the occultic Skull and Bones, Freemasons, and Bohemian Grove, among other groups.

Please read the article I posted about Hitler. There is nothing good about the occult.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by Chainmaker]

[edit on 23-12-2009 by Chainmaker]

reply to post by Chainmaker


I've heard it all before. I tell you what. Why don't you get both sides of a story before you start telling people what is "true" and what is not?

That's what is wrong with the world today. People want to criticize every other belief system and religion without knowing anything about their own, much less about the one they are criticizing.

I can't tell you how many so-called, as Iam sure you would agree, Christians don't even know the bloody history of their own religion, but feel free to criticize other belief, which, you guessed it, they also know nothing about.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Chainmaker

 

I've heard it all before. I tell you what. Why don't you get both sides of a story before you start telling people what is "true" and what is not?

That's what is wrong with the world today. People want to criticize every other belief system and religion without knowing anything about their own, much less about the one they are criticizing.

I can't tell you how many so-called, as Iam sure you would agree, Christians don't even know the bloody history of their own religion, but feel free to criticize other belief, which, you guessed it, they also know nothing about.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

I made a historical statement, that the Nazi Party was formed out of the occult group The Thule Society. Argue that, instead of calling me ignorant.

I put all occultists into 3 distinct groups according to their view of Satan. Argue that, instead of calling me ignorant.

I know a great deal about history, politics and religion, and I have both studied deeply and dabbled in other religions, including occultism, and I have seen and experienced much in that area, but I have now repented of it and turned to the Christ.

When I make a declaration of what is true concerning Christianity, that is based on what is plainly stated in the Bible, and I can easily post Bible verses to support my views.

I know very well the history of Christianity, which is often confused with the bloody history of the secular organization named Roman Catholicism.

Originally posted by Chainmaker
I know very well the history of Christianity, which is often confused with the bloody history of the secular organization named Roman Catholicism.

There were no Protestant demoniations of Christianity before the Catholic church!!! Catholicism WAS Christianity before Luther and Calvin!! See what I mean....

You may be very intelligent. I don't doubt that, but you made a perfect example of what I am talking about.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Chainmaker
I know very well the history of Christianity, which is often confused with the bloody history of the secular organization named Roman Catholicism.

There were no Protestant demoniations of Christianity before the Catholic church!!! Catholicism WAS Christianity before Luther and Calvin!! See what I mean....

You may be very intelligent. I don't doubt that, but you made a perfect example of what I am talking about.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

You are not differentiating personal faith from secular organizations. Many people throughout history within the Catholic Church were truly followers of Christ who actually lived by the words of the Bible, not the commands of the organization. The Church of Rome hasn't represented true Christianity for a long long time. The leadership became corrupted well over a thousand years ago. Over the centuries a vast array of anti-Biblical doctrines and practices were added to their tradition, however many people under the power of the Catholic Church refused to go along with their evil throughout history.

Protestantism did not begin when Martin Luther nailed his theses. Protestantism had been going on the whole time, and many true Christians who opposed the secular power of the secular government of the Catholics were slaughtered as heretics throughout the history of the organization. Millions of Christians have been murdered by the Catholic Church for their beliefs, the violence just escalated after the Reformation began.

Also, a quick Google search might show you that a large number of other Christian organizations have been operating in many different countries from the time of Jesus on, places like Ethiopia and Egypt, Iraq and Turkey.

The Roman Catholic Church has never had any monopoly on Christianity, not ever.



[edit on 23-12-2009 by Chainmaker]

Oh, and I promise that article is really good, and it's not preachy or anything, just discussing the roots of Nazi occultism going back into the 1800s.

[edit on 23-12-2009 by Chainmaker]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Chainmaker

 

ee
I've heard it all before. I tell you what. Why don't you get both sides of a story before you start telling people what is "true" and what is not?

THAT's right!

i feel, in you, the same frustration and hope-against-futility that i get, too, from the present attitude in the world!

i don't care who agrees or who disagrees or even about what!
but what i DO care about is seeing some thing done to validate certain sorts of claims.

there are so many experts but so few will inspect

i am going to demand proof for extraordinary doubt and skepticism just as for claims, from now on!

OK then If Hitler was not into anything Esoterica why did he use the original religious Hindu/Buddhist symbol of peace, luck and well being the; Svastika and then slightly redesign it and turn it into his own infamous symbol of Nazism, Swastika?

[edit on 24-12-2009 by Epsillion70]

[edit on 24-12-2009 by Epsillion70]

Originally posted by Epsillion70
OK then If Hitler was not into anything Esoterica why did he use the original religious Hindu/Buddhist symbol of peace, luck and well being the; Svastika

well, because he liked it
many people do

it's not just Hindu - its origins are in the neolithic age and it is found all over the world.

and then slightly redesign it

how do you mean, exactly?

and turn it into his own infamous symbol of Nazis

why couldn't it just be that Hitler liked peace? and valued luck?
and so chose a very ancient symbol that would be recognized by so many all over the world?

the ensuing confusion following the end of WWII is the cause of the now-tainted assumptions about the swastika.
but the bottom line is that a swastika is a swastika and its greater role is to be a symbol of peace for all races; it can't be changed by a falling-short of ideals we all held and that we all let go by the wayside.

the war didn't LITERALLY change the meaning of this symbol; it was men and attitudes and speculation and assumption, etc.
and maybe the attitude we assume is not the same as the one that inspired the use of the swastika on the flag?

Read some Indian history to find out why Hitler chose the swastika, read a little about ancient Aryans and Dravidians and the foundation of the racist caste system. There is a reason why Hitler chose a Hindu symbol for his NEO-PAGAN political movement.

It was ancient pagan Caucasoid Aryans who set up a system of religious and social apartheid over the dark-skinned native Dravidians. Reincarnation? That was an idea invented for CONTROL over the dark-skinned Dravidian SLAVES. The idea was, if you are a good black guy and serve your white masters, then you get to be reincarnated as a white guy!

That's why Hitler chose the Hindu swastika as his symbol, and why he wouldn’t shut up about Aryans, and why the Nazis were trying to bring back European pagan religion.

I think to get a better understanding on how Hitler WAS an Occultist people should watch this Video. This video is 2 parts and is well worth watching for those who havent seen iit as it goes in to who and what led to Hitlers rise to power and subsequently the beliefs that he held because of these influences etc

Google Video Link

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Epsillion70]

Firstly, in response to the swastika issue. There are two types of swastikas.
There is the right handed swastika and then there is the left handed or inverted swastika.

The right-handed swastika has been used as a
positive expression of life by the ancient
Mesopotamians, the early Christians and
Byzantines, the Mayans, as well as the Hopi
and other Native American Indian tribes.

The REAL Swastika


Hitler and the Nazis used the left handed swastika.

The demise of the swastika as an honorable symbol began when Hitler presented to the world the national symbol of the "New Germany". The scarlet background with the white center containing a black swastika would soon become a symbol feared by millions. Dr. Freidrich Krohn designed the symbol, however in his original version the swastika was right-handed. Hitler, after viewing it, ordered that the design be changed and the arms of the swastika face left-handed. Hitler’s demands to change the direction the arms of the swastika face may very well have been his demise. In several different cultures the direction of the arms represent good luck and bad luck depending on which way the arms face. To several Asian cultures the right- handed swastika represents a "sun wheel" or the "wheel of Life", while the left-handed swastika represents death.

Hitler's Swastika

Some of you seem to know so much about so many things, you knowa whole of nothing about nothing.

Svastica or Swastika,
Tomatoe or Tomato,
Potatoe or Potato.
Semantics aside simply put they are related to each other and depending on your perceptions they can be said differently.
However I think the original point was missed here in that
if Hitler was not an Occultist and did not prescribe to any religious tendencies christian or pagan. Why did he base his own swastika on such an overtly mystical symbol at all in the first place?
Or maybe he just saw it as a fashion statement like you see with Atheists who unknowingly wear symbolic Ankhs and Crosses etc

Originally posted by Epsillion70
Why did he base his own swastika on such an overtly mystical symbol at all in the first place?

no offense, but "overtly mystical" struck me as a possible oxymoron.
if you'd have said "overtly occult," it would definitely have been an oxymoron.

i have somewhat of a fascination in oxymoron, so i couldn't help pointing that out. it's nothing personal and of no actual importance, relatively speaking


remember, though, that when Hitler chose the swastika, it wasn't such a confusing symbol for anyone that was familiar with it. it was NOT a hidden symbol nor did it have a hidden meaning - it would not have been considered occult, then, at that time

and those that weren't familiar with it became so during and after WWII - but they came to identify it with everything that it had NEVER represented, before WWII.

thus a dichotomy was born

so perhaps it was this confusion that added to, or even caused, the associating of supposed hidden meaning(s) of the swastika

said confusion being caused not by the symbol itself or even Hitler's choice in using it to represent the Third Reich. but rather from an actual lack of understanding which led to an uniformed public consensus not based in facts but rather in emotionally driven justifications related to the things that took place during WWII.

Originally posted by Epsillion70

Or maybe he just saw it as a fashion statement like you see with Atheists who unknowingly wear symbolic Ankhs and Crosses etc

You think? Look, as I stated previously, I've read about all of the supposed involvement Hitler had with the occult, but given that he had occultists and Masons put to death in his country, I don't see it being very likely.

Everyone wants to bring up the "Master Race" thing and Theosophy. The "Master Race" crappola was derived directly from the Philosopher Nietzsche's "Uberman." That's the cold hard truth. There wasn't and isn't some "occult conspiracy" going on. If anything, throughout the centuries, occultists have been the victims of a conspiracy, not a perpetrator.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


concerning both sides of the swastika/occult tie-in, as voiced by both SoT and Epsillion70, i wanted to offer some more information related to the issue of direction in swastika representations:

from wiki:

Nazi ensigns had a through and through image, so both versions were present, one on each side, but the Nazi flag on land was right-facing on both sides and at a 45° rotation.

the direction of the swastika, in the earliest representations available for study, was apparently not very relevant:

from www.valdostamuseum.org

"... Swastikas appear on Paleolitic carvings on mammoth ivory from the Ukraine, dated ca. 10,000 B.C. Swastikas figure on the oldest coinage in India. Persia, Asia Mior, and Greece represented the rotating axis mundi with the symbol of a swastika. On a Boeotian amphora of the 7th century B.C., the swastika was presented as a sacred sign of the Goddess Artemis. It also represented many other deities from Iceland to Japan, Scandinavia to North Africa. It was much used in Troy and Mycenaie before the 13th century B.C. ... In Japan, the reborn Amida, "Buddha of Immeasurable Light", wore a left-handed swastika carved on his breast. A similar left-handed swastika was the sign of Thor's hammer on Scandinavian coins. ... Trojan images of the Great Goddess showed a swastika within a female triangle on her belly, indicating the hidden god prior to his next rebirth. Early Chiristians adopted the swastika to represent Christ, calling it a crux dissimulata or disguised cross. It was also called the crux gammata ... because it showed the Greek letter gamma four times repeated. To Saxons it was fylfot, translated either "four-foot", referring to the four heavenly pillars at the corners of the earth, or "fill-foot", referring to the Christian habit of filling in the foot of a church window with swastikas. ...

there are other items of interest on the above linked-to-page, well worth the short read

the name "swastika" is Sanskrit but the symbol itself is older than the Sanskrit language. in ancient Mesopotamia, it was a symbol that mean sun/fire/life.
and, interestingly enough, if the swastika, either right- or left-facing, is animated to spin 360 degrees in either direction, repeatedly, the single-frame swastika becomes a sun.
i created just such an animation, several years ago; if and when i remember where it is, i'll post it.

also from wiki

The genesis of the swastika symbol is often treated in conjunction with cross symbols in general, such as the "sun wheel" of Bronze Age religion.

&

The Tierwirbel (the German for "animal whorl" or "whirl of animals"[1]) is a characteristic motive in Bronze Age Central Asia, the Eurasian Steppe, and later also in Iron Age Scythian and European (Baltic[2] and Germanic) culture, showing rotational symmetric arrangement of an animal motive, often four birds' heads. Even wider diffusion of this "Asiatic" theme has been proposed, to the Pacific and even North America (especially Moundville)[3].

an American poster featuring a swastika and a flag with 48 stars:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d470dd59de00.jpg[/atsimg]

-----------------------

so, to SoT and Epsillion70, this is my conclusion and opinion:

i do not see the use of the swastika as being evidence in favor of Hitler being an occultist - it was in common use and was not misunderstood, from everything i've discovered in my own personal research.

any thoughts?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

You think?

Look, as I stated previously, I've read about all of the supposed involvement Hitler had with the occult, but given that he had occultists and Masons put to death in his country, I don't see it being very likely.

Everyone wants to bring up the "Master Race" thing and Theosophy. The "Master Race" crappola was derived directly from the Philosopher Nietzsche's "Uberman." That's the cold hard truth. There wasn't and isn't some "occult conspiracy" going on. If anything, throughout the centuries, occultists have been the victims of a conspiracy, not a perpetrator.

Your pro-occult bias causes you to deny very obvious truth about Hitler and the Nazi Party's occultism. I already told you why Hitler attacked the other occultists. Hitler went mad with power, he wanted all competition eliminated.

It is not disputed that the Nazi Party formed out of the Thule Society. That isn't widely disseminated knowledge, but it is not disputed.

The occultic Skull and Bones with Prescott Bush funded the Nazis. After WW2 the occultic Freemason/Bohemian Grove/Skull and Bones U.S. government ran Project Paperclip and brought all the Nazi scientists they could find to America to continue their research here. The occultic elements within the Vatican were smuggling Nazis to Argentina. The Nazi base in Antarctica was never destroyed. The Nazi occult research never ended, the dream of the occultic Master Race never ended.

The occult is bad. Different organizations, different rites, similar symbolism, SAME MASTER.

You just don't want to hear that, and this thread should have been named

"SpeakerofTruth puts fingers in ears and starts humming loudly"

Occultism is at the heart of the conspiracy, the occult symbols are everywhere, and this knowledge is plastered all over the conspiracy world.

But many refuse to go ahead and connect the dots, and admit that it all makes perfect sense if you just accept that occultism is witchcraft, witchcraft is contacting and channeling and gaining power from the spirits of the dark side, and this world is ruled by Satan, so it makes sense that the rich and powerful elites of this world would be into the Satanic occult, because maybe thats why they are so rich and powerful, and there are prophecies about a one-world government run by an Antichrist, so it makes sense that the New World Order is being put together by Satanic occultists.

A very logical conclusion, but an absolutely despised conclusion. Because the implications...to accept Christianity as true....can't have that.

Novus Ordo Seclorum = New Order of the Ages = New Age = Age of Aquarius = New World Order = Antichrist World Government

Annuit Coeptis = He approves our undertakings = Lucifer approves of the formation of the New Age

OCCULT IS BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD





[edit on 27-12-2009 by Chainmaker]