Jerusalem Temple VS Messiah

(Dispensationalists Please Take Note)

The thesis of this paper is:
God had no intention of there being a permanent temple of wood and stone. The history of the temple is an example of man's satan inspired rebellion against God, and serves as a type of the rebellion to come.

[1) God never asked for it.

2SA 7:5 "Go and tell my servant David, `This is what the LORD says: Are you the one to build me a house to dwell in? 6 I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought the Israelites up out of Egypt to this day. I have been moving from place to place with a tent as my dwelling. 7 Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their rulers whom I commanded to shepherd my people Israel, "Why have you not built me a house of cedar?" '

2) God promised unconditionally to raise a successor for David, after his death, who would be the Son of God, to sit on the eternal throne. This is the one to build the temple God desired, and no other.

2SA 7:11 " `The LORD declares to you that the LORD himself will establish a house for you: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.' "

3) David attempted to pull a fast one on God, not only by making all the plans for the temple and assembling all the materials, but also by placing Solomon on the throne himself, rather than trusting God to raise up the promised successor in His own time.

1 Chronicles 22-29 are David's temple preparations.

1KI 1:32 King David said, "Call in Zadok the priest, Nathan the prophet and Benaiah son of Jehoiada." When they came before the king, 33 he said to them: "Take your lord's servants with you and set Solomon my son on my own mule and take him down to Gihon. 34 There have Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anoint him king over Israel. Blow the trumpet and shout, `Long live King Solomon!' 35 Then you are to go up with him, and he is to come and sit on my throne and reign in my place. I have appointed him ruler over Israel and Judah."

This was David putting Solomon on the throne himself.

4) David forsook the unconditional promise of God and made up his own prophecy.

1CH 22:6 Then he called for his son Solomon and charged him to build a house for the LORD, the God of Israel. 7 David said to Solomon: "My son, I had it in my heart to build a house for the Name of the LORD my God. 8 But this word of the LORD came to me: `You have shed much blood and have fought many wars. You are not to build a house for my Name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight. 9 But you will have a son who will be a man of peace and rest, and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side. His name will be Solomon, and I will grant Israel peace and quiet during his reign. 10 He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'

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[edit on 14-12-2009 by pthena]

(continued from above)

1CH 28:9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever. 10 Consider now, for the LORD has chosen you to build a temple as a sanctuary. Be strong and do the work."

David made that up himself about Solomon being named by God to build a house for God's Name. David made himself into a false prophet.

1CH 28:11 Then David gave his son Solomon the plans for the portico of the temple, its buildings, its storerooms, its upper parts, its inner rooms and the place of atonement. 12 He gave him the plans of all that the Spirit had put in his mind for the courts of the temple of the LORD and all the surrounding rooms, for the treasuries of the temple of God and for the treasuries for the dedicated things. 13 He gave him instructions for the divisions of the priests and Levites, and for all the work of serving in the temple of the LORD, as well as for all the articles to be used in its service.

5) As part of David's detailed plans and division of labor he incurred the LORD's wrath while taking the census of the fighting men, the armed forces.

1CH 27:23 David did not take the number of the men twenty years old or less, because the LORD had promised to make Israel as numerous as the stars in the sky. 24 Joab son of Zeruiah began to count the men but did not finish. Wrath came on Israel on account of this numbering, and the number was not entered in the book of the annals of King David.

This wrath is recorded in 2Sam 24 and 1 Chronicles 21

2SA 24:1 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

1CH 21:1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

6) The site David chose for the temple was the very site where the destroying angel was. This alter at the threshing floor of Araunah should have been a memorial warning against rejecting God's plan in favor of following human devises, instead it became the site for a stone temple.

1CH 21:25 So David paid Araunah six hundred shekels of gold for the site. 26 David built an altar to the LORD there and sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. He called on the LORD, and the LORD answered him with fire from heaven on the altar of burnt offering.

1CH 21:27 Then the LORD spoke to the angel, and he put his sword back into its sheath. 28 At that time, when David saw that the LORD had answered him on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite, he offered sacrifices there. 29 The tabernacle of the LORD, which Moses had made in the desert, and the altar of burnt offering were at that time on the high place at Gibeon. 30 But David could not go before it to inquire of God, because he was afraid of the sword of the angel of the LORD.

1CH 22:1 Then David said, "The house of the LORD God is to be here, and also the altar of burnt offering for Israel."

David made his decision without first inquiring of God. Again, the one not chosen to build a temple making the decisions on his own.

7) David's schemes resulted in Solomon sitting on the throne of the LORD.

1CH 29:22 ... Then they acknowledged Solomon son of David as king a second time, anointing him before the LORD to be ruler and Zadok to be priest. 23 So Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king in place of his father David. He prospered and all Israel obeyed him. 24 All the officers and mighty men, as well as all of King David's sons, pledged their submission to King Solomon.

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DA 11:36 "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. 38 Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.

A god of fortresses. The site of the temple was chosen as a result of military census.

The True Messiah and Temple of God

1PE 2:4 As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame."

HEB 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5 Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

EPH 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

2CO 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

1CO 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

You foolish dispensationalists. Do you think that it is God's plan to have a stone temple rebuilt? Do you think there is some promise of God left unfulfilled besides raising Jesus the Messiah from the dead and seating him at His own right hand?
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(continued from above)
I warn you clearly: If you send money or support for the building of a stone temple in Jerusalem then you can be sure you have the mark of the beast. You are the rebellion against the Messiah

AC 3:17 "Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you--even Jesus. 21 He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, `The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.'

AC 3:24 "Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, `Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.' 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."

All scripture references from New International Version.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by pthena]

Great thread, very inspiring.... just a thought.

"o, my People! This life Of the present is nothing
But (temporary)convenience:
It is the Hereafter
That is the Home
That will last.
Ghafir 39.

Al Qasas 81
Then we caused the earth
To swallow him up an
His house; and he had not
(The least little) party
To help him against Allah,
Nor could he defend himself.

Al Mu'minun 101
Then when the Trumpet
Is blown, there will be
No more relationships
Between them that day,
Nor will one ask after another!

Hud 16
They are those for whom
There is nothing in the Hereafter
But the Fire: vain
Are the designs they frame therein,
And of no effect
Are the deeds that they do!

Hud 20
They will in nowise
Frustrate (His design) on earth,
Nor have they protectors
Besides Allah! Their penalty
Will be doubled! They lost
The power to hear,
And they did not see!

Al Hijr 9
We have, without doubt,
Sent down the Message;
And We will assuredly
Guard it (from corruption).

Thanks again, have a bless day, 'glad tidings

reply to post by 517.101
It will take me some time to look up those verses. I'm using Koran 7.50 which uses King Fahd indexing

[40.39] O my nation, the life of this world is
nothing but an enjoyment, but surely, the life
of the Everlasting Life is the stable abode.
[40.40] Those who do an evil deed shall only
be rewarded with its like, but those who
believe and do good works, either men and
women, shall enter the Gardens of Paradise
and are provided for without reckoning.
[40.41] My nation, how is it that I call you to
salvation and you call me to the Fire?
[40.42] You call me to disbelieve in Allah and
to associate with Him that of which I know
nothing; while I call you to the Almighty, the
Forgiving.

I don't want to be in error either.

reply to post by pthena


Thanks again for this thread topic.

Saba 14, Surah 34

Then, when We decreed
(Solomon's) death, nothing
showed them
His death except a little
Worm of the earth, which
Kept (slowly) gnawing away
At his staff: so when he
Fell down, the Jinns saw
Plainly that if they had
Known the unseen, they
Would not have tarried

In the humiliating Penalty
(of their Task).

Glad Tidings!
Talk to you soon

reply to post by pthena


can you please mention the link ,from where you have taken this..??

reply to post by zilch
All scripture references from New International Version.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by pthena]

You foolish dispensationalists. Do you think that it is God's plan to have a stone temple rebuilt? Do you think there is some promise of God left unfulfilled besides raising Jesus the Messiah from the dead and seating him at His own right hand?


A question. With a simple answer. Yes. There is unfinished promises to be fulfilled. And he does want a Jewish temple rebuilt. It's simply not quite time for it yet.

So here is my case. Starting with the book of Hosea and the Curse of Malachi.

To start with The first several chapters of Hosea prophesies that the descendents of Israel would be separated from God for a long period of time. The prophecy of Hosea 3 summarizes it nicely.

4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

That's the first promise. The Israelites and Jews are destined to return to their homeland after a long time away.

Then the next several chapters go over the sins and the crimes they were committing against God. They are compared to harlots. And here is the list of sins in a nutshell. Hosea 4.

1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.

Then he declares their punishment.

Hosea 5.
13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

Hosea 13
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

So what is this punishment. After taking a good look at Levitius 26 it's obvious what these verses are declaring. A top level Leviticus 26 curse.
Look at these verses from Leviticus 26.

27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

All which has happened to the Jews.

Now there is one last detail to this curse. The timeframe. It is given in these 2 verses from Hosea 6.

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

When looked at in reference to Psalms 90-4 and 2nd Peter 3-8 you get the hidden message of the verses. The days are in the presene of God. They are thousand year periods of time here on the Earth.

Israel was to be restored after 2000 years. And exist for another thousand years past that. The day of Jezreel.

Now why did I call this the curse of Malachi? Because of the following verses of Malachi 4.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So what happened? The death of Elijah the prophet who Jesus Christ claimed was his John the Baptist triggered the curse. And now you know approximatly when the curse started.

Now is there supposed to be a rebuilt Jewish temple? Yes. Here's why.

Daniel 9-27 and the prophecy of the 70th week. Has the 70th week happened? NO. Here's why.

9-24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

So are the 70 weeks complete? NO! The curse of Malachi is still running! The 70th week is a FUTURE event. And it REQIRES a JEWISH temple in order for it to happen.

That is why your premise is wrong. There is still much to do. The reconciliation has yet to happen.



[edit on 15-12-2009 by ntech]

Originally posted by pthena

2CO 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

1CO 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

You foolish dispensationalists. Do you think that it is God's plan to have a stone temple rebuilt? Do you think there is some promise of God left unfulfilled besides raising Jesus the Messiah from the dead and seating him at His own right hand?

The Shekinah now dwells in His people.

I agree with you any reconstruction of the temple will not be an act of God...
...and the Dispensationalists might just have set up a false prophecy for the Man of Sin to fulfill.

reply to post by troubleshooter

Originally posted by troubleshooter
...and the Dispensationalists might just have set up a false prophecy for the Man of Sin to fulfill.

I'm not up on changes in dispensational teaching over the last 20 years. Based on what was being taught 20 years ago, it would be easy to conclude that the only reason for a temple would be for someone called the anti-christ to take a seat there. The reason to help the anti-christ is to force God's hand to rapture 'the church'. That fits the definition of black magic.

They say the anti-christ will kill many Jews. So they encourage many Jews to move to the land of Palestine so that they may be killed. This seems to indicate a total lack of love. In my thinking, this is the practice of human sacrifice for the benefit of them going to heaven. I don't think God will reward them in the way they think.

reply to post by ntech
Is there any place in this world where a person can't turn to the Lord?

Daniel was an exile in Babylonian and Persian empires. He could have gone back to Jerusalem at any time, he was that highly regarded, but he did not. Even in that foreign land he saw a vision of the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man receiving the kingdom. What is a piece of land compared with that?

HOS 3:4 For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol. 5 Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.

There is nothing stopping Israel from returning to the Lord and their king right now. Submission and trembling is all it takes, anywhere in the world.

You say the temple must be rebuilt. Who will build it? Will Solomon rise from the dead to build it? Will Jesus return to build it? Or do you look to some other messiah descended from David to build it? Jesus did say that false messiahs will come. Will you support the false one for the sake of a stone temple?

What is an idol compared to truth?



[edit on 15-12-2009 by pthena]

"I am not sent for the world but rather to the lost sheep of the Israelites."

Hosanna to the son of David

this is a very famous series will answer many of your questions.

their website,

www.wakeupproject.com...









[edit on 16-12-2009 by AkiraKeyzHunter]

reply to post by pthena


I read enough just to post this before I forget if someone else said this I apologize for the repeat. First very well written.
About the the temple being built...god did have a successor of David build a temple fit for him..infact none other than Jesus Christ built a temple, but it was no mere temple of wood and stone no it was a living temple, as gods word is living word. the temple is to be built in your body so that god will want to dwell in it, this is what Jesus died for among other things

reply to post by pthena


Amen brother that is exaclty my beliefs, but then again Jesus did give the promises of Abraham to (gasp) gentiles first, lol, I am sure the Pharisee are stilly upset about that one. Well actually they are still after 2000 years in denial, for they still hold the law of Moses over the law of Jesus, they still believe in the Old Contract (Testament) over the new, which clearly states it is the NEW Contract with god and man. And they still even though they have seen him deny him, which is why god has abandoned them as his chosen and made any and all who call upon Jesus as there savior, a place in heaven

reply to post by AkiraKeyzHunter
Thank you for these clips. I must learn more of Al-Aqsa.

I don't know anything about Illuminati, but they seem to come up quite often in forum discussions. I always thought they grew up as part of the Renaissance to pursue scientific studies in secret away from prying religious oversight. I suppose anything can be corrupted and used for goals that lead away from truth and freedom.

While God is bringing His people together in these days, there is also a bringing together of forces against God's will and against the truth. Unity is good, as long as it is unity in submission to God. It is God's will for Abraham's seed to be one, Israelite, Christian, and Arab and Muslim. Then will the blessings of Abraham flow to all mankind. Any one anywhere can submit to God, and seek Him. There is no need to wait. There is no material thing we must have first. There is no timeline that must run out first. We must not wait for a rebellion to be exposed. Today, if you hear His voice, harden not your hearts.

Are you of the Jewish mentality or have you studied (via application to your own life) the Laws that were given to us?

If not, then do not presume to think that you can understand our writings. You have made judgments here that are not based on knowledge ... and the judgments are incorrect.

Read Psalm 119

reply to post by jonathannas0187

Originally posted by jonathannas0187
And they still even though they have seen him deny him, which is why god has abandoned them as his chosen and made any and all who call upon Jesus as there savior, a place in heaven

New International Version
JN 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

I wonder what would have happened if the Jerusalem leaders had done what Jesus told them to do, and torn down the temple. But they didn't. They considered the temple of stone to be more important than an innocent man's life.

JN 11:47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin.
"What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."

JN 11:49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."

Their plan of human sacrifice did not help them, for it was their own plan.

MT 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

This is the word from the Messiah, the son of David, the only one authorized by God to build a temple. How can any one respond to him, if when he returns and asks them, "What is this stone temple I see here, and who has built it?"

As for the Old Covenant. It is very old. As a written work, it has been added to, and been subtracted from, and edited by those who had custodianship of it. Therefore the New Covenant is not committed to paper or stone.

JER 31:31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

JER 31:32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.

JER 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

JER 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

God does not abandon His people Israel

RO 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.