The Pagan Origin Of Christmas: Jesus Was Not Born On December 25th But Some Pagan Gods were!

reply to post by DaddyBare


There is no such thing as "Native American". North American wasn't populated until about 10,000 to 13,000 years ago. Amerids, those belonging to Polynesian and Pacific Islander decent, traveled either to South America or up to what is now Alaska and migrated into the Americas from there.

Some tribes even came as late as 6,000 years ago. This is all based on mitochondrial DNA.

Here is the link:

cita.chattanooga.org...

Originally posted by Stinkhorn1
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

There is no such thing as "Native American". North American wasn't populated until about 10,000 to 13,000 years ago.

Talk about Semantics. Is there really anyone who doesn't know this?

Would you prefer "Early Settlers"?

Native American - - - refers to those who were already inhabitants/natives when the Europeans arrived.

*** sorry that's kind of abrupt. I was up all night with 2 year old grandson.

Thank you for your well informed contribution.

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Annee]

Originally posted by valiant
reply to post by Annee

 

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say to me? I simply stated we were not taught it like it actually was his birthday, we were told otherwise, but still celebrated it out of tradition.

I just don't see the point in your post? did I say anything wrong?

Oh NO - you didn't say anything wrong. Just a different perspective.

I do find it rare that a child is taught it is not really Christ's birthday - - just a celebration of.

Did they explain why it was not celebrated on his birthday?


edit for quote fix

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Annee]

reply to post by x2Strongx


Great thread. But first there needs to be some factual evidence to find out if Jesus was ever born. Billions of dollars are spent on trees, turkey's, toys for what?? A gross miscalculation of one man's birth date.

reply to post by Annee


Sorry Annee, I misunderstood your post before

They told us that nobody really knew what day jesus was born on, and that the 25th of dec was an old celebration day and was adopted years ago, so was celebrated out of tradition rather than the actual purpose.

They never mentioned a thing about pagan's though, we found that out ourselve's.

Christmas is a "Pagan" holiday because it has Pagan origins much stronger than other things that have pagan origins that are more cultural than pagan.

1 Corinthians 10:7 (NIV)

Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

Interestingly this is one definition of Pagan in the dictionary and I basically thought that before anyway.

2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.

I final warning for Christians who think it's no big deal to celebrate "Pagan" holidays

Zephaniah 1:9b

Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies

And so I don't celebrate Christmas, each christian should search their souls in view of the scriptures above.
Then again I am finding many Christians ignore the bible these days.
But of course I fully expect self proclaimed neo-pagans to celebrate Christmas and really enjoy it, as they know it's true origins.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Christmas is a "Pagan" holiday because it has Pagan origins much stronger than other things that have pagan origins that are more cultural than pagan.

1 Corinthians 10:7 (NIV)

Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

Interestingly this is one definition of Pagan in the dictionary and I basically thought that before anyway.

2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.

I final warning for Christians who think it's no big deal to celebrate "Pagan" holidays

Zephaniah 1:9b

Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies

And so I don't celebrate Christmas, each christian should search their souls in view of the scriptures above.
Then again I am finding many Christians ignore the bible these days.
But of course I fully expect self proclaimed neo-pagans to celebrate Christmas and really enjoy it, as they know it's true origins.

Who knows the true origin of anything that happened eons ago.
I get a little tired of those who claim to know all. People are free to call themselves whatever they choose, be it atheist, muslim, christian, pagan heathen, roman catholic etc, etc.
I will know the truth the day I die. If there's nothing on the other side then nothing matters but if there is, then I shall know.


[edit on 13/12/09 by bluebird2]

[edit on 13/12/09 by bluebird2]

reply to post by bluebird2

Who knows the true origin of anything that happened eons ago.

It's called historical records, as soon a we disregard history because we don't agree with it because of an emotional bias, we land ourselves trouble, because we aren't learning from our ancestors mistakes and we are doomed to repeat them.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

I final warning for Christians who think it's no big deal to celebrate "Pagan" holidays

Zephaniah 1:9b
Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies

Unless you are Jewish I wouldn't worry about it. Us Christians believe in the New Covenant of Jesus which supersedes all others,thus being one of them. Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle all the way..

[edit on 13-12-2009 by oliveoil]

Originally posted by Level X
reply to post by x2Strongx

 

Great thread. But first there needs to be some factual evidence to find out if Jesus was ever born. Billions of dollars are spent on trees, turkey's, toys for what?? A gross miscalculation of one man's birth date.

Maybe this thread should be resurrected.

Proof of Jesus

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Some Info i found www.simpletoremember.com...

Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits.

In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.

The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.t

Originally posted by the_denv
Also, I would like to point out that the days of the week, the months of the year and how many days per year is all false due to Ceaser

Caesar is one of the most famous people in history.

His name is everywhere, you must have read it 1000 times.

So why can't you spell it right ?


K.

Gday,

Originally posted by MAC269
December 25 was Mithras' birthday before it was Jesus'.

No, Mithra was NOT born on Dec. 25th.
This is a false claim, endlessly repeated on the 'net.

Originally posted by MAC269
Mithras was said to be able to perform miracles and be bourn of a virgin, sound similar??

Wrong again.
Mithras was NOT born of a virgin.
This is a false claim, endlessly repeated on the 'net.


K.

Gday,

Originally posted by pikestaff
hello, Roman soldiers worshiped Mithras, and December the 25th was kept as the day to celebrate that god.(I Googled this).

You "googled it" ?! hahaha
Anyone can google anything.
Google "Elvis lives" and you will find Elvis lives.


The facts are clear -
Mithras was NOT born on 25th December.
There is NO evidence to support this claim.

Just un-critical people like yourself repeating this false claim. Readers here will now repeat your claim as if it was true. That's the problem here - no-one ever bothers to check the facts.

Originally posted by pikestaff
others say that Bachus was celebrated on that day,

Really?
Who says?

Originally posted by pikestaff
with so many nations and gods, I expect other gods were/are worshiped on that day too.

You expect ?!

But you can't actually provide a SINGLE EXAMPLE !


K.

In my opinion - festivals/celebrations are about Harvests & Fertility. Basically LIFE!

You honor your gods with/about good harvests and reproduction. LIFE!

Whoever/whatever your god - - - you celebrate him/her in relation to LIFE!

---------------------------------

Except newer man-made religions such as Christianity - - - which are political.

Usurping Festivals for political power.

reply to post by octotom

Why do people think it's such a big thing to "debunk" Christ's being born on December 25th? There is virtually no church that teaches that. It doesn't even mention say it in the Bible. Jesus' birthday is not in anyway integral to Christian doctrine, practice, or life.

You know what I was thinking octotom? Something more along the lines
of, Wth how is this going to spark any kind of intelligent debate ? The
first time I heard this, I was in the second grade.

Originally posted by Kapyong
Gday,

Originally posted by pikestaff
hello, Roman soldiers worshiped Mithras, and December the 25th was kept as the day to celebrate that god.(I Googled this).

You "googled it" ?! hahaha
Anyone can google anything.
Google "Elvis lives" and you will find Elvis lives.


The facts are clear -
Mithras was NOT born on 25th December.
There is NO evidence to support this claim.

Just un-critical people like yourself repeating this false claim. Readers here will now repeat your claim as if it was true. That's the problem here - no-one ever bothers to check the facts.

Originally posted by pikestaff
others say that Bachus was celebrated on that day,

Really?
Who says?

Originally posted by pikestaff
with so many nations and gods, I expect other gods were/are worshiped on that day too.

You expect ?!

But you can't actually provide a SINGLE EXAMPLE !


K.

i have said this before on previous religious debates, you can't really prove anything, its all based on Myth and legend, its all been interpreted / misinterpreted from ancients text. You don't believe that Mithras was born on Dec 25th, but do you believe that he was born out of a rock?
The reason that some do beleive that he was born on the 25th may be because of this:

There are many points of resemblance between Christianity and the cult of Mithras. One of the reasons for this probably is that the Persian mystics invaded Italy during the first century after Christ and the early history of both cults was closely interwoven. The Encyclopædia Britannica makes the following statement concerning the Mithraic and Christian Mysteries:

"The fraternal and democratic spirit of the first communities, and their humble origin; the identification of the object of adoration with light and the sun; the legends of the shepherds with their gifts and adoration, the flood, and the ark; the representation in art of the fiery chariot, the drawing of water from the rock; the use of bell and candle, holy water and the communion; the sanctification of Sunday and of the 25th of December; the insistence on moral conduct, the emphasis placed on abstinence and self-control; the doctrine of heaven and hell, of primitive revelation, of the mediation of the Logos emanating from the divine, the atoning sacrifice, the constant warfare between good and evil and the final triumph of the former, the immortality of the soul, the last judgment, the resurrection of the flesh and the fiery destruction of the universe--[these] are some of the resemblances which, whether real or only apparent, enabled Mithraism to prolong its resistance to Christianity,"

www.sacred-texts.com...

Both Mithraic and Christian Mysteries claimed Sunday and 25th December as a day of sanctification perhaps that's why some claim Mithras was also born December 25th.

Example provided

[edit on 13/12/2009 by wycky]

reply to post by oliveoil


I am at a loss for words for how to respond to you, have you even read this thread?

This is my response.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1d22d138bf9.jpg[/atsimg]

Seriously

how can you ever tell for sure when Jesus was born? we don't exactly have a birth certificate to go on

Originally posted by KalithAlur
how can you ever tell for sure when Jesus was born? we don't exactly have a birth certificate to go on

Again - - - Maybe this thread should be resurrected.

Proof of Jesus

www.abovetopsecret.com...

---------------------------------------------------

As far as I know - there has never been any concrete evidence that Jesus existed at all. As far as I know - there are no writings from the time he was supposed to be alive. All references come years later.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Annee]