The People Speak: History Channel Goes FAR Left

Its a truly fantastic book, a 'bottom-up' look at History instead of the standard 'Internationl History' of most authors which covers the big decision makers. Although both forms of History are quite acceptable I am a Leftist so am more drawn towards the likes of Zinn.

If i lived in America i would be watching this and telling other people to.

I would think that showing that our forefathers were both brave patriots fighting for their freedom AND slave owners lacking the compassion of their convictions would show the more true pictures, and therefore worthy of showing both.

In order to truly understand the US and our history it is important to show all of its aspects, and history shows that the government and the majority populace have generally been at odds, with the government and an elite minority often trying to manipulate the peoples actions and opinions to suit the needs and profit of the few. It is really only when this truth is understood that any realistic voting and opinion can occur.

We often hear of "the liberal media" and our "liberal education" however there are certain subjects that are often boycotted in our education and media, the true "liberal agenda", and the fact of the matter is that most of our media and education are so far right that what most people label liberal or far left is actually more center left. We all are familiar with the neocon agenda, as it has several mouthy spokesmen on several channels, and is often given regular airtime, however most people are quite ignorant of truly leftist agenda.

As to the extent of our "liberal education"....i think about as liberal as our history education is, is that we killed some indians, and columbus was not all he was cracked up to be. They dont get into true historical liberalism in high school such as america's imperialist control of south america through groups like united fruit, nor do they get much into the desertification of africa through our corporate groups. They dont teach the true motives of our entrance into the civil war, or WWII, nor do they teach about the Gulf of Tonkin incident nor our true reasons for the massacre of 2-4 million vietnamese. Most of the children i teach know absolutely nothing about vietnam, including what century it is in, nor the fact that we killed 500000 cambodians and 750000 laosans in side agenda's.

Most americans know nothing of the fact of americas involvement in manipulating the elections of leaders even in countries considered our allies, of our interloping in the civil war in greece, china, and russia, nor of our history of assassinating leaders in other countries, or installing 16 dictators....or of destroying fledgling democracies who would try to win rights for their people against the power of american corporatism. Our support of people such as Osama bin laden during the cold war, of trujillo, papa doc and baby doc and many other such mass murderers.

The idea of "manifest destiny" is shown as the inevitable and righteous growth of american control throughout the western US, rather than the massacre of indegenous folks, the conquest and murder of hawaiians and philipeans that it was.

The whole period of the "RED SCARE" and the manipulation of the public in mass is skipped over completely, as is the era of Mccarthyism where all americans with alternative social ideas were persecuted, black listed, and murdered and civil rights were trampled over for anyone holding anything other than the government approved ideals.

The torrid history of CIA training of south american death squads where soldiers of dictators were taught how to use rape and murder of civilians in order to forestall public uprising and dessent through brutal oppression is ignored, as is the "school of the americas" where we train many future dictators and terrorists.

And once again there are the CIA's experiments in '___' and such substances upon unsuspecting american citizens, the tuskeegee experiments and other such inhumane horrors perpetrated upon our own unsuspecting populace.

When all this, incontrovertable HISTORY, is taught in schools, perhaps then i will recognize that there is a liberal education. Until then, i can only assume that people are being intentionally decieved for the express purpose of raising them to be maleable and ignorant, in order to more easily lead them blindly off to war whenever some upstart country decides they want to exercise their right to self determination, or anytime an oil corporation wants to expand its holdings and profit.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

When I write "Democrat," I mean Democrat. When I write "Republican," I mean Republican. When I refer to liberalism and conservatism, I'm referring to those ideologies.

Now, when I see liberal revisionists writing that Republicans should be ashamed of the historical "scab of racism" on their party, I do feel inclined to jump in and correct them. Whereupon I'm accused of being a neocon, a racist and, worse yet, a Republican.

— Doc Velocity
[edit on 12/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]

If you start a thread using the terms left/right and later support your argument using the terms democrat/republican and still later use the terms liberal/conservative to convey essentially the same point then it's only natural for someone to assume that you are associating left with democrat and liberal and right with republican and conservative. And then you wonder why someone would assume that they all mean the same thing to you. Do you see my point?

[edit on 11-12-2009 by winston37]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by winston37
I [write G_d] out of courtesy for those that believe it shouldn't be written; simple as that.

So, you do it out of courtesy to the tiny minority of people who don't believe in God, but you have no problem flipping off the remaining 95% of the human race who do believe in God or gods.

Whatever floats your boat.

— Doc Velocity

So you're saying that you are offended when someone doesn't spell out the full name of God? Never heard that one before. BTW where do you get that 95% figure from? Can I get a source on that?

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I'm guessing your Avatar saying Embrace Ignorance is your motto.

I'm replying to your reply to my question purely out of courtesy.

You are sitting here spouting off about a show that has yet to air. You are being ignorant and closed minded for a reason that I cannot put my finger on.

All I'm saying is either give it a chance, or don't watch it and move on with your life.

The people who sit in school, and soak every thing they read and hear, and don't do any investigating on their own, well they are not the smart people anyway.

And people who get their info solely from History Channel, they are even worse off.

Your continuous rants here have grown tiring.

If you have a problem with the Discovery Network of channels, then take it up with them.

Just wanted to remind everyone that this show is on tonight. I'm taping it, but look forward to a discussion about it after we watch!

First mistake....didn't take long.

Yes, the phrase was changed from "Life, liberty and property" to the current "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", it was changed because at the time slaves where considered property. Our founding fathers knew that there would come a time where slavery would be abolished, and didn't want that act to be considered unconstitutional.

The founding fathers also knew one day that a foreigner would try to destroy this country, that is why they put the natural born citizen clause in for qualification to be President. Too bad we ignored that one.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
You may have noticed Matt Damon lately hawking The People Speak, an upcoming "educational" special on the History Channel... I'm going to do something unusual for me and advise you not to watch it.

well, i'm watching it right now and so far, nothing marxist at all

your avatar suits you, btw


how can you judge something based on another person's opinion?
i don't
but thanks for your advice, anyway

thank GOD for the 1st and 4th amendments!

If schools taught real history, we would not be paying taxes.

An american slogan should be: "Tax me, and I will destroy you". We beat england so bad, they became a nanny state out of fear from the populace doing as we did. America was never ment to resemble europe in any way...ever.

As i watch this show, it shows me nothing more than i read in "the peoples history of the united states"..... a sad and true portrayal of the condition and fight of the american working class. It shows nothing more than the truth of where the power in our country lies, and whom that power serves. There is nothing in it of lies or brainwashing, just the truth that every day workers have to and have had to deal with in our not so long history. It should move anyone to tears the abuses that those in power lay upon the middle and lower class in order to keep that power for their own.

I cant see the show.. hopefully someone will post it online.

On the first page of this post, I told everyone they were reading the article wrong, and there was NOT going to be any Marxist stuff in the show, and that it would be a show about the founders beliefs.

I want to hear from everyone who saw the show.. was there any Marxist stuff in it? or was I correct in my post on page 1 that everyone ignored?

[edit on 14-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

No, nothing marxist. Mostly its the words of the people who fought against our government and corporations in order to procure all the freedoms we now enjoy....rather as i thought, being familiar with zinn's works.

reply to post by pexx421


Cool. thank you for that conformation. My reading comprehension skills are pretty good.. there was one line in the article that told that it would not be Marxist.. but most people missed it. I think that is just so funny.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I cant see the show.. hopefully someone will post it online.

On the first page of this post, I told everyone they were reading the article wrong, and there was NOT going to be any Marxist stuff in the show, and that it would be a show about the founders beliefs.

I want to hear from everyone who saw the show.. was there any Marxist stuff in it? or was I correct in my post on page 1 that everyone ignored?

you were right!

it was a great show.

maybe you can get the book to read. it has all the show had and more.
i'm hoping to read it some time.

[edit on 12/14/2009 by queenannie38]

reply to post by Doc Velocity

MEMORANDUM

Fm: S. Astyanax, History Channel Publicity Department

To: Orgasmically Quivering Pink Balloon Person

Re: Your 'thread' on Above Top Secret
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, there, Doc,

Just a quick note to say 'thank you' for your sterling work in publicizing The People Speak on Above Top Secret. Due to your efforts, viewership figures for the programme have received a substantial boost. Way to go, Doc! You really know how to snag 'em eyeballs! Howard and Matt are going to be knocked out, I tell ya!

I'll see what I can do about a bonus but don't hold your breath, you know budgets are tight round here, we're not exactly Fox News as you know. Still, it's the thought that counts. And we've always been able to count on yours, haven't we?

Great publicity work, Doc. Just great!

reply to post by queenannie38


I may try to find a pdf copy of the book. the problem I have with Marxism isn't that it is inherently evil.. I don't believe that.. but that it is wrong for America. I think our founders came up with a great system when it' not corrupted, and when it works and we owe it to them and all Americans to try to stick by that system of Government.

Except for when like it say in the Declaration Of Independence when the government gets so corrupt it no longer serves it's intended purpose then it's time to overthrow that government and start again.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I think our founders came up with a great system when it' not corrupted, and when it works and we owe it to them and all Americans to try to stick by that system of Government.

I agree. Unfortunately, there has never been a time in this country when it wasn't corrupted. And it's gotten worse and worse. It used to be that the people would be able to organize and had the power to change the decisions being made in government. Today, they just ignore any organizations that try. The government has 200 years of practice in keeping the people dumb, fat and happy and unable to affect what goes on behind the doors.

After watching this program, I had some harsh realizations. And it's not sitting well with me this morning.

Except for when like it say in the Declaration Of Independence when the government gets so corrupt it no longer serves it's intended purpose then it's time to overthrow that government and start again.

Yeah, that's great. But how? Given the above, how can we the people overthrow a government which has in place preventative measures for being overthrown?

Another harsh realization I had was about my own "patriotism". I finally understood something that I wasn't too comfortable with...

From Emma Goldman. Patriotism: A Menace to Liberty (I highly recommend reading the entire speech)

Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others.

The inhabitants of the other spots reason in like manner, of course, with the result that, from early infancy, the mind of the child is poisoned with blood-curdling stories about the Germans, the French, the Italians, Russians, etc. When the child has reached manhood, he is thoroughly saturated with the belief that he is chosen by the Lord himself to defend HIS country against the attack or invasion of any foreigner. It is for that purpose that we are clamoring for a greater army and navy, more battleships and ammunition.

Patriotism is what keeps us supporting wars. It's what makes us think that our country is special and worthy of defense and revenge at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives.

I realized that the only thing I can truly feel "patriotic" about is the Constitution. And since it has never been followed, and our government gets further and further away from that ideal as time goes on, I cannot feel "patriotism" for this country. It does not reflect the ideals of the Constitution. And never has.

Patriotism is like a religion.

But, then, patriotism is not for those who represent wealth and power. It is good enough for the people. It reminds one of the historic wisdom of Frederic the Great, the bosom friend of Voltaire, who said: "Religion is a fraud, but it must be maintained for the masses."

I was once proud of my country. But I realize that it's not the ACTIONS of the country itself that I was proud of. It's the possibility; the idea; the potential that is has (or had). If this government and its people really lived by the Constitution, it would be something to be proud of! Something to feel patriotic about! But as it is, I'm ashamed and saddened that we'll probably never know what it's like to live in the great country that the framers of our Constitution envisioned...

On another subject, this is a letter written by the parents of a young man who died in the 9/11 disaster. I only wish the government had listened...

Not in Our Son's Name

Our son Greg is among the many missing from the World Trade Center attack. Since we first heard the news, we have shared moments of grief, comfort, hope, despair, fond memories with his wife, the two families, our friends and neighbors, his loving colleagues at Cantor Fitzgerald / ESpeed, and all the grieving families that daily meet at the Pierre Hotel.

We see our hurt and anger reflected among everybody we meet. We cannot pay attention to the daily flow of news about this disaster. But we read enough of the news to sense that our government is heading in the direction of violent revenge, with the prospect of sons, daughters, parents, friends in distant lands dying, suffering, and nursing further grievances against us. It is not the way to go. It will not avenge our son's death. Not in our son's name.

Our son died a victim of an inhuman ideology. Our actions should not serve the same purpose. Let us grieve. Let us reflect and pray. Let us think about a rational response that brings real peace and justice to our world. But let us not as a nation add to the inhumanity of our times.

I'm so ashamed that our government decided on violent revenge instead of looking for a way to reach peace. How can I possibly feel "patriotism" for a country whose leader and people would choose that course of action, in which we find ourselves hopelessly mired today? How?

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

yeah, thats how i felt the first time i read howard zinn too. Sadly, the only way for "we the people" to enact change is by being as courageous as many of the people in the film, and in our history. They did not fight half heartedly, they wholly embraced their surrender of freedom, they did not shirk away from being imprisoned, beaten and abused, and even murdered for what they believed in. Now we lack the courage of our convictions, but we still live in comfort, and thats what they said "find the amount of tyranny a man will bear in silence, and i will show you where the government line is drawn" or something to that effect. Many of us are too comfortable now to sacrifice what little we have for what we know is right.

Strangely enough, when backlash does come (and at some point it will) it will most likely come because the government has pushed just far enough to take away that last bit of comfort that we cannot do without, it will be forced by their hand i think.