Tasers!! Dangerous? Deadly? NO! And here is why...

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

After doing a littler bit of the research on tasers and the complains that has been on going with the human rights violations reports that amnesty USA is been reviewing,

www.amnestyusa.org...

I kind of have mix feeling about the OP purpose. . .

I don't.

Posting for Taser can be a worthwhile endeavour; they are a generous firm.

I can't believe you honestly compared tasers to defibrillators! A defibrillators is used when a persons heart has stopped or when it is barely beating and irregular to bring back a strong heart beat. It is not designed to immobilize a person and the type of currant is far different.
Due to a child hood illness if you were to use a taser on me it would kill me. Same as my grandmother who has had multiple open heart surgeries. Sorry but I would rather get shot in the leg and survive than get taserred and die.

reply to post by calstorm

I think being tasered on a leg wouldn't kill you either.

reply to post by Kailassa


I was just trying to be a littler bit nicer, after having a hard time on another thread.

I know exactly what you mean.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier

Ill start you out with my personal experience. I have undergone much training as a police officer while in the service.

You just proved how uninformed most police officers are by comparing static electricity with a Taser....

shame on you..... go back to school and learn electronics...



[edit on 9-12-2009 by imitator]

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by calstorm

 

I think being tasered on a leg wouldn't kill you either.

The jolts go through your entire body. It wouldn't just be localized to my leg. So yes, yes I would.

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

HAHAHA WOW! You need to read all of the posts before you post. Tasers use less amperage then a defibulator (that btw docters use without a medical history) and also a heart needs 300 amps same as a pace maker to effect it. Tasers only transfer .0021 mili amps FAR less then what it would take to effect a heart or pacemaker.. RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING

I have done my research, and yours is most definitely incorrect by a wide margin.

Here's the first thing for you to consider. all those so called tests for the taser with 0 deaths, are under controlled conditions with perfectly healthy specimens and used exactly as directed and so on. They also don't include any statistics for secondary damage, such as when the person hits the pavement in a wholly uncontrolled manner.

in real life, this is hardly the case.

I don't think most of the people here have a real problem with tasers as part of a policeman's arsenal, but I can guarantee that 100% of these types here are against what app ears to be the wholesale misuse and abuse of them on the general public. and that, you can't try to talk or reason your way out of. it happens, it is becoming more prevalent, and frankly, any cops that get shot over it deserve it.

Originally posted by calstorm

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by calstorm

 

I think being tasered on a leg wouldn't kill you either.

The jolts go through your entire body. It wouldn't just be localized to my leg. So yes, yes I would.

the main force of the jolt is going from entry to the nearest ground, which is typically the negative electrode, so a hit on the leg, no, no it won't. on either side of your heart, yes, it might.

I respect your service to this country, read your other thread and agreed with you for the most part, as a fellow former serviceman myself.

Tasers might not be as dangerous as a projectile discharge weapon, but the issue is they are being abused by the police. A big difference. Should a taser be used as a last resort against an abusive alcoholic who's threatening a hostage fine. Should a taser be used as against a gun wielding mad man, great.

But against a 60 year old man? A 9 year old child? A harmless naked man? Somebody who is complying with the police? An individual who is giving them a hard time, but can easily be overpowered by physical force?

NO. And it's that abuse that is scaring the citizens of this country. Military Police are one thing, but our civilian police forces are another. They attract a type of individual who was deprived of power as a young man/woman, and now they feel the need for that power they missed out on. Some, and I mean a very small percentage of them, are good honest people who want to make a difference. The majority of them are power-hungry jerks. Big difference, and now that they're not on the chopping block for shooting, we're seeing the result of these power-deprived idiots using their tasers.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
But against a 60 year old man? A 9 year old child? A harmless naked man?

That's why Taser International even has this to say about it in their bulletin.

Higher Risk Populations. ECD Use on a pregnant, infirm, elderly, small child, or low body-mass index (BMI) person could increase the risk of death or serious injury. ECD use has not been scientifically tested on these populations. The ECD should not be used on members of these populations unless the situation justifies possible higher risk of death or serious injury.

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
The taser transfers 2.1 mili amps. It takes .1 mili amp to kill a human.
However will it? It all depends on the situation.

Good to see you're admitting Tasers can be deadly.

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
HAHAHA WOW! You need to read all of the posts before you post. Tasers use less amperage then a defibulator (that btw docters use without a medical history) and also a heart needs 300 amps same as a pace maker to effect it. Tasers only transfer .0021 mili amps FAR less then what it would take to effect a heart or pacemaker.. RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING

First you claim a Taser delivers 2.1 mili amps, now you claim it only delivers ".0021 mili amps".
Where exactly are you pulling your figures from?

If the current has a direct pathway to the heart (e.g., via a cardiac catheter or other kind of electrode), a much lower current of less than 1 mA (AC or DC) can cause fibrillation. If not immediately treated by defibrillation, fibrillations are usually lethal because all the heart muscle cells move independently. Above 200 mA, muscle contractions are so strong that the heart muscles cannot move at all.
en.wikipedia.org...

Electrical Output:

ADVANCED TASER® M26:
3.6 mA or 0.0036 A (average rectified current)

The use of this model Taser is becoming increasingly common in the Police Force.
The output given is only an average. Tasers can be half as powerful again, sometimes delivering a fatal shock of over 5mA underneath the victim's skin.

The TASER barbs completely penetrate the epidermis and dermis into the fatty tissue. delivering the shock subcutaneously. This is immensely more dangerous than a shock on the outside the skin such as that delivered by a defibrillator.

As you said, "RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING".

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
Many People believe that Tasers are dangerous and should not be used by police. Well this spawns from two types of people, the dumb and the miss informed. Once again you have the American population buying into MSM and what their friends are saying.

Typical argumentum ad personam attack, shelling out gratuitous insults to people you know nothing about, simply on the basis that they disagree with you.

- A pitifully weak method of argument.

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
No mearly what im trying to point out is that Pepper spray, battons, tasers, what have you are just tools! They are not the Police officer. Police today are HIGHLY trained to defuse situations. I spend almost the same time training that I do in the field working!

You say it's not the tools that kill, yet Tasers are increasingly being used as an alternative to negotiation . . . even, in 3 recent cases, on 10 year old children. And some of these victims are dying from them.

The tools are killing alright. Sadly, many of these tools are police officers.

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
A Taser when activated will give pulses of 7-30 secs completely immobilizing a subject. . . .
Tasers will also NOT cause any lasting damage/death. . . .
These devices have been used over 1 million times without causing a single death. . . .

Taser Abuse in the United States

Since June 2001, more than 351 individuals in the United States have died after being shocked by police Tasers. Most of those individuals were not carrying a weapon. Amnesty International is concerned that Tasers are being used as tools of routine force -- rather than as an alternative to firearms.

Taser Abuse in the United States

Originally posted by ThePeoplesSoldier
Haha ya then there is reality were people will walk up to police in a coffee shop and murder 4 police officers that are relaxing before shift. Come on lets stay in the real world for a few moments shall we?

Tell me again, how did Tasers help in that situation?

Perhaps if Police had not made people hate the whole force by indiscriminately tasering little kiddies and grandmas, and supporting their buddies/underlings who do so and who kill unnecessarily with them, then that thug might not have hated police so much that he murdered them.

Tasering is torture. When police torture indiscriminately they all become hated, even if, as you suggest, it is only 1 in 10 who are guilty of misuse.
- That statistic does not say much for police training.

I notice you claim to be a military policeman, and therefore would know nothing about the ratio of bad cops in the civvy force anyway.

Torture

Electric shocks have been used as a method of torture, since the received voltage and amperage can be controlled with precision and used to cause pain while avoiding obvious evidence on the victim's body. Such torture usually uses electrodes* attached to parts of the victim's body.

* Such as are used in Tasers.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Electrical Output:

ADVANCED TASER® M26:
3.6 mA or 0.0036 A (average rectified current)

The use of this model Taser is becoming increasingly common in the Police Force.
The output given is only an average. Tasers can be half as powerful again, sometimes delivering a fatal shock of over 5mA underneath the victim's skin.

They give some more numbers on that page.

The current of a strong static shock would easily kill someone if it was continuous. But, it typically lasts less than a millionth [.0000001] of a second and is thus much too short to affect the heart.

That's a 0.1 microseconds.

The TASER X26 is programmed to deliver a very short electrical pulse of approximately 100 microseconds' duration with about 100 microcoulombs of charge at 19 pulses per second for 5 seconds[2]. The voltage across the body is about 1,200 volts during the shock. The peak current of about 3 amperes is far less than that of a strong static electricity shock, which can be as high as 37.5 amperes.[3] The average current from the TASER X26 is approximately 2 milliamperes (0.002 amperes).

But 100 microseconds is 1000 times more than the static shock's duration, so the power delivered by that Taser is:

P (power) = I (current) * V (voltage)
3600 = 3 * 1200

and the charge, when compared with that static shock would be:

C (charge) = I (current) * t (time)
static shock: 37.5 A * 0.0000001 s = 3.75 µC (microcoulomb)
Taser: 3 A * 0.0001 s = 300 µC

or, even using the value for Delivered charge – main phase (that I don't know what means)

85 µC, 32 µC net

at least 10 times a stronger charge than the strong static shock.

Unless I made any mistake in my calculations, but if I did I am sure someone will say something about it.

Originally posted by ArMaP

The TASER X26 is programmed to deliver a very short electrical pulse of approximately 100 microseconds' duration with about 100 microcoulombs of charge at 19 pulses per second for 5 seconds[2]. The voltage across the body is about 1,200 volts during the shock. The peak current of about 3 amperes is far less than that of a strong static electricity shock, which can be as high as 37.5 amperes.[3] The average current from the TASER X26 is approximately 2 milliamperes (0.002 amperes).

But 100 microseconds is 1000 times more than the static shock's duration, so the power delivered by that Taser is:

P (power) = I (current) * V (voltage)
3600 = 3 * 1200

and the charge, when compared with that static shock would be:

C (charge) = I (current) * t (time)
static shock: 37.5 A * 0.0000001 s = 3.75 µC (microcoulomb)
Taser: 3 A * 0.0001 s = 300 µC

or, even using the value for Delivered charge – main phase (that I don't know what means)

85 µC, 32 µC net

at least 10 times a stronger charge than the strong static shock.

Unless I made any mistake in my calculations, but if I did I am sure someone will say something about it.

Your figures are correct for the information you were given. However, according to Dr. Jeffrey Ho, a Minnesota emergency-medicine specialist and paid consultant to Taser:

With 50 to 60 pulses per second, Tasers can induce sustained muscle contractions, or a tetanus.
www.scienceline.org...

As for the duration of the blast:

How long would you like the stun to last?

Each TASER model comes with different durations the stun pulse. TASER M18 and TASER M18L send a series of pulses for 5 seconds while the TASER C2 sends a series of pulses for 30 seconds when you press the trigger. You may press the trigger again to send another set of pulses once the previous one is completed. You can turn the safety switch to the off position to stop the pulse at anytime.

TASER X26C offers more control on the pulse duration. Press the trigger once for a 10-second pulse. Press the trigger twice rapidly for a 20-second pulse. Or press the trigger three times for a 30-second pulse.
www.squidoo.com...

The Advanced Taser microprocessor is programmed to administer a 30-second Advanced Taser discharge -- so you don’t have to worry about how long to hold down the button.
www.streetdirectory.com...

So you can just press the trigger once on your Taser, and the victim gets up to 18,000 pulses of electricity jolting them around, incapacitating them.

Of course young perfectly healthy adults will probably survive this.
And the rest can be blamed for their own deaths because of "pre-existing conditions" such as being too young, to old, too weak, too excitable, too thin, too fat, having diabetes or a heart defect . . .

Taser promise all police using Tasers the benefit of support and full representation with their own experienced lawyers if ever they are taken to court over Taser use. One way or another the killer cop always goes free, so violent individuals in the force see no reason to moderate their behaviour.
-Or to stop having fun.

I think alot of you are missing a huge point if the cops did not use tasers what would they use? Hmmm what is more dangerous a 40 caliber pistol or a taser? I do agree the cops are more on tilt as of late but they are not the only ones everyone seems a little touchy. They have a hard job and make decisions that could get them killed or others killed.

The taser has saved many more lives then it has taken and if you do not see that the truth escapes you. I am sure many cops thank god for tasers so they do not have to live the rest of their lives thinking about if they should have pulled that trigger. And you can flame me all you want as a cop lover I consider it a complement.

reply to post by Subjective Truth

What would you use if a frightened little girl didn't want to have a shower, and then tried to fight you off because she didn't want to be taken away and put in a home?

If you had no taser then, would you put a bullet through her?

Tasers are being used every day where talking and patience would most likely solve the problem.

And people are dying from them.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
The taser has saved many more lives then it has taken and if you do not see that the truth escapes you.

The problem is how many lives were taken that wouldn't have been if the police had used other methods instead of what is looking more and more like a way of sponsoring Taser International.

Nice try with the propaganda but I don't buy it.

1. Why did taser release the current information to users about avoiding the chest area?

2. Explain this to me.

Taser sued by its own employees.

According to the court documents, as many as 6,000 weapons were returned in one month alone because of alleged defects.

The former employees also claimed defective Tasers that had been returned were sawn open, the high voltage circuit boards were removed and "simply put in new casings with new serial numbers and sent out again without the flaws actually being rectified."

3.You can not compare a controlled environment with a real world situation. When training with Tasers, the LEO's are in a well prepared area with medical personal at the ready in case of anything untowards happening. Even then, incidents occur.

Vegas police officers sue Scottsdale makers of Taser weapons

4. All the facts listed in your link are from Taser. I am sure I could find some positive facts about tobacco from Phillip Morris as well.

Oh and great way to start your argument. Naming all who don't agree with your position as dumb or uneducated.

Hey, I just came across this great thread with this awesome link in it. I think maybe it would be beneficial to you to have a look before you try again.

www.philosophicalsociety.com...

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


Wow this is really good info....

I can see you as a police officer puts what is safe before what is decent.

Like tasing a man, woman or a little 80 pound girl is much safer than beating them with a large stick. Nice I'm glad you have me in your thoughts.

Hopefully law enforcement never looks up the stats of the dangers of Anal sex compared to being tased, or else we will all be screwed....literally.

If Tasers are so safe I think it should be mandatory that every law enforcement officer that opts to use them should be tased just before they start their shift.

It would help focus their mind on WHAT happens to their victim when they decide to use it.

After all, it is 100% safe, with a minimal amperage.... so much so that I hear even Father Christmas has started using a taser to control his reindeer.

Yep ... Tase every cop once a day ... that should keep them honest

reply to post by Dagar


I strongly disagree with you on this.

As it is now cops get tased under a controlled environment in the safety of their fellow officers, when they are fully mentally prepared and give the nod.

They use this as justification to go ramped and tase every living creature on two legs, even women and children. After all it's safe.

If they got tased every day there would not be an old lady attempting to cross the street who would not get put into a mental state of terror before getting zapped till she urinates herself for J-walking. Those old ladies get grumpy about their civil liberties getting taken away.

Not a good Idea if you ask me.