Why Secrets Cannot Be Revealed

The esoteric truths are not exclusively available through Freemasonry either.

Each person searching for light has innumerable paths.

The problem with the search is that many people "think" too hard and don't "feel".

You don't need an understanding of math or geometry to perceive universal truth. It helps some people who are visual learners.

Part of the reason mystery schools use initiation rituals to help expedite spiritual growth is scientific in nature. By having a candidate see symbols, hear the teachings and participate in the ceremony the human mind learns faster. Visual, auditory and kinesthetic learning are all important in their own right, but combining them is synergistic.

For example:

If I want to impress upon you the reality of a benevolent loving God, it would not suffice to just draw you a picture and expect you to believe.

Similarly just telling you about the logical and visceral reasons for God's existence is unlikely to convince you.

Finally, even through showing, telling and participating in some arcane ceremony is unlikely to instill a complete belief in God.

But, by giving you the tools to explore the subject yourself and providing guidance along the way you may reach a point of a personal transformative experience that creates a belief in God and a desire for selfless service to mankind.

Thank you for your replies, they are of benefit

Originally posted by emsed1
Part of the reason mystery schools use initiation rituals to help expedite spiritual growth is scientific in nature...

Strangely my statements as to the ritually inclined were not aimed at mystery schools, think more along the lines of established dogma. All along I held beliefs that have proved so childlike when the realization came.

If I want to impress upon you the reality of a benevolent loving God, it would not suffice to just draw you a picture and expect you to believe.

I agree pictures words are rather limiting in capturing the truth.

One question if I may, when ones starting point is the source as apposed to instruction from peers... what next?

Originally posted by emsed1
Part of the reason mystery schools use initiation rituals to help expedite spiritual growth is scientific in nature. By having a candidate see symbols, hear the teachings and participate in the ceremony the human mind learns faster. Visual, auditory and kinesthetic learning are all important in their own right, but combining them is synergistic.

For example:

If I want to impress upon you the reality of a benevolent loving God, it would not suffice to just draw you a picture and expect you to believe.

The initiation, as your example clearly demonstrates, directs the learner to the 'truth' of the community, and aids in producing a desired result. If you are directed to a reality that holds a benevolent loving god, then that is the most likely outcome. If you are directed to expect a horned 'evil' god, then that is mostly likely what you will find. The Eleusian Mysteries for example, entailed 9 days of preparations before the initiates (deemed suitably prepared) would enter into the highest of the rites which mostly likely involved a mass spiritual 'awakening' or visualisation. Those 9 days, and the years spent in preparation previously, impressed upon the 'congregation' what they would expect and by expectation they know what to manifest, consciously and unconsciously.

Similarly just telling you about the logical and visceral reasons for God's existence is unlikely to convince you.

It will if their norms and values have prepared them for such a thing. It can be whatever you want it to be, imagination though has it's limitations and are generally structured during childhood. Those initiated to the Eleusian Mysteries were prepared from childhood (usually/traditionally). You would expect 'God' if you have through your life been exposed to the symbology and can relate to that concept. If you can't, you will have other expectations. Just as, if you are burdened by guilt, your encounter with your god may be fearful, if you are at ease with your life, your expectation is more likely to be loving. This can greatly effect your personal interpretation and it's overall effect on you. Transformation can work both ways.

But, by giving you the tools to explore the subject yourself and providing guidance along the way you may reach a point of a personal transformative experience that creates a belief in God and a desire for selfless service to mankind.

Or you can have a transformative experience that results in a complete disbelief in God and still have a desire for selfless service to mankind.

The trick is simply to find the way that suits you as an individual, gods of any kind, are optional IMO.

[edit on 8-12-2009 by shamhat]

reply to post by emsed1


So than does it surprise you that people start rumors concerning the secrecy of freemasonry? We could only speculate what goes on behind closed regular lodges, and what goes on behind the controllers doors. We only have what information is brought to the table, anything else is speculations.

Even if you discredit someone saying something bad about freemasons, that person will continue because there are much hidden secrets. Since the secrets can't be revealed than the speculation must remain.

I hope you could understand.

reply to post by shamhat


Thanks I understand your concern, just so you are re-assured as to my person;
Once the ways of old were taken away the struggle indeed ensued, yet one was lead to understanding that embracing what at first appears opposite would to be err (different facet of the same), one sees, this is and has been commonplace. As to your last point in choosing neither, the OP was correct in stating thinking alone can be detrimental - as one notes those who are too smart in times gone by seem to have reasoned away what shouldn't be rationalized. Very hard to explain yet I know those on this thread understand.

Since the first post my concerns are those who embrace the ways of old (both aspects thereof), it is to them the truth may need to be stated as set in their ways they will never allow for the truth, and in turn perpetuate the stumbling of all.

My instinct tells me that someone somewhere is burying something more coherent for the future.

Originally posted by Equinox99
So than does it surprise you that people start rumors concerning the secrecy of freemasonry? We could only speculate what goes on behind closed regular lodges, and what goes on behind the controllers doors. We only have what information is brought to the table, anything else is speculations.

Even if you discredit someone saying something bad about freemasons, that person will continue because there are much hidden secrets. Since the secrets can't be revealed than the speculation must remain.

I hope you could understand.

Not at all, actually. What's at issue is, why would someone even speculate that? I mean, you're saying that Masons could have technology/magic that defies every known law of physics; they could have the secret of immortality; they could have tunnels to the center of the earth... and because you don't know for a fact that they don't (because of their "secrecy"), you're going to assume that they do? Someone needs to use Occam's razor more often...

I completely agree with the OP.

When I found God, I looked up a LOT of religious and spiritual history and came across a lot of good things from a lot of different sources. I had some odd things happen in my life and I studied a lot of things that all of the sudden clicked and made perfect sense.

Without studying all the things I studied, and without seeing the things I saw, there is no real tangible way to convey what I found.

It's not that it's a secret, it's just not something everyone is ready to understand before they're ready. You can't force it.

I was agnostic for 30 years and really had no faith in anything at all. It was pretty monumental what happened with me. If I could share it with him, I would love to, but it's just not shareable.

reply to post by emsed1


That was the most honest explanation I have heard yet. Not to mention the one that makes the most sense when put in context with everything that occurs and all the mysteries involved with secret societies and the "secret knowledge" .....


That is why i feel for people who have had experiences with things that are not normal like maybe they saw another living creature not known to us or thought to be made up...


But in fact they really saw it, so it really DID happen......

No formula or equation can prove that it did not happen because if they come to that conclusion then they are wrong and so is there formula...

Until it matches exactly what happened it is wrong..

Also what bothers me about us humans......

We always think we know everything.....yet we never experienced it , we just " think we know what it would be like"

And this ignorance is the norm and if you try to make sense and be logical and reasonable you are looked at as an outcast or weird...

Well to some groups that is...

Anyways......most important thing = Great post.....S&F

Originally posted by emsed1
I guess my point is that our secrets cannot be revealed. Even if we wanted to we could never "give" or "tell" the secrets (supposed) to another person.

Ultimately what each person perceives as the truth is what he or she experiences and not what they hear or read.

1.)do other members give advice as how to perceive certain truths ?

2.)What if a certain member is just way off in his thinking, is there a way to guide them to see the truth/secret/knowledge more clearly ?

3.) Technically then, any and all answered and thoughts are correct, because in essence, everything is derived from the one and everything is just a part of that one conscience , so technically on a certain scale, whatever you think the secrets are, actually are right..

The main thing to understand is that just because something is correct, does not mean that it is the only thing that is correct...



Another thought i had..

If existence is balanced, then there can never be 1 true answer on our level of living/understanding.....hence all the duality in life....

The only correct answer to anything is the one conscience/creator/god/ Us

because that word...encompasses everything there is.....there for just knowing the one would lead you to understand everything...



JUST My opinion

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by emsed1
I guess my point is that our secrets cannot be revealed. Even if we wanted to we could never "give" or "tell" the secrets (supposed) to another person.

Ultimately what each person perceives as the truth is what he or she experiences and not what they hear or read.

1.)do other members give advice as how to perceive certain truths ?

No. It isn't proper for one Mason to try and influence the beliefs of another. This is part of the reason we stick strictly to the "script" if you will during rituals.

We do talk about our perceptions of what the lessons mean at times. Usually this is outside the lodge on a casual basis.

The thing is that outside of the degree ceremonies 95% of our time is spent doing business meetings or social/charity events. In my lodge we have a few minutes at the end of each meeting for "education" but many times it's skipped because it's late and everyone wants to go home.

The education topics are usually readings of articles about Masonry or it's history.

2.)What if a certain member is just way off in his thinking, is there a way to guide them to see the truth/secret/knowledge more clearly ?

We wouldn't presume to judge whether a member was right or wrong in his interpretation of the degrees. In fact most don't even try and understand them as anything other than 'stories' about being a good person.

3.) Technically then, any and all answered and thoughts are correct, because in essence, everything is derived from the one and everything is just a part of that one conscience , so technically on a certain scale, whatever you think the secrets are, actually are right..

This is exactly correct. A person must pursue the truth that makes the most sense to them. I think that no matter what path is chosen the ultimate result is the understanding that true selflessness brings us close to understanding the mysteries of the universe and results in inner peace.

The main thing to understand is that just because something is correct, does not mean that it is the only thing that is correct...



Another thought i had..

If existence is balanced, then there can never be 1 true answer on our level of living/understanding.....hence all the duality in life....

The only correct answer to anything is the one conscience/creator/god/ Us

because that word...encompasses everything there is.....there for just knowing the one would lead you to understand everything...



JUST My opinion

Exactly.

One of the symbols in the First Degree ceremony is the black and white checkered floor of a Masonic lodge. It represents the duality of good/bad and darkness/light and as the candidate travels around the lodge it is meant for him to consider that he must navigate the darkness and light in life.

To me it means that in order to understand and appreciate Goodness and Truth it is necessary to understand and reject Selfishness and Evil.

The Thirty-second Degree "Master of the Royal Secret" This degree teaches many lessons, but the mystery concealed is that man is a creature of free will and capable of recreating himself. If he accomplishes this goal, he will attain a genuine power that can shake the limits of science, surpass the problems of this earth, decipher the secrets of space, surpass the limits of ceremony and catechism, and attain genuine enlightenment; a gnosis which is the foundation of all religions. - A Soldier of the Light seeks truth and knowledge.

IMPORTANT SYMBOLS: For the 32nd Degree
The Camp, Lesser Tetractys, five-pointed star,
Greater Tetractys, seven-pointed star, triple
interlaced triangles, Trimurti (3-faced bust).

"Trimurti" is a concept in Hinduism "in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified by the forms of Brahmā the creator, Vishnu the maintainer or preserver, and Śhiva the destroyer or transformer.

You can already tell above Albert Pike is not as pure as the Francken Manuscripts which is the pure form of the Ancient Scottish Rite. The Francken Manuscripts are the foundation of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. Albert Pike simply reworked it with other occult values.

Red Lodge or Red Masonry is the 14th Degree the most mysterious also this is where you secure the ring of Yod "saying here". Although some persons compass & square have Yod instead of the G. Yod denotes the Hand.

Blue lodge is the lodge of fidelity, While the Red lodge is the lodge of Perfection & this is reflected in the 14th Degree of such & such. Fidelity+Perfection = Divinity Also Blue+Red= Purple a divine color indeed. Tyrian purple robes made by the murex shell of the ancient Phoenicians comes to mind here as to why it's called "Royal Purple." Also Blue+Red=Androgyny the mental gender of the strange secret

Also take note the 13° - Royal Arch of Solomon Knight of the Ninth Arch, Has the Enochian Delta. The Royal Archs of Solomon! And it's Jewel speaks Regnante Solomone, Rege Sapientissimo, Thesaurum Pretiosissimum Sub Ruinis Invenerunt Adonirum, Joabert, et Satolkin ... Anno Enochi 2995; or 'In the reign of Solomon, wisest of kings, Adonirum, Joabert and Satolkin found under the ruins the most precious treasure'

Now don't go assuming the Enochian Delta is of Enochian Magic by John Dee even though John Dee's signature of 007 to the queen became the password "Tubal Cain" the secret agents out of town golfing.

The Ultimate universe reality is grasped by the 5 senses which allow us to interact with it. And through the seat in which the nerves of the 5 senses pass do we sit upon as kings miniature.

"No one can understand a king but a king therefore God has made each of us a king in miniature, so to speak, over a kingdom which is an infinitely reduced copy of His own. In the, kingdom of man God's "throne" is represented by the soul, the Archangel by the heart, "the chair" by the brain, "the tablet" by the treasure-chamber of thought. The soul, itself unlocated and indivisible, governs the body as God governs the universe. In short, each of us is entrusted with a little kingdom, and charged not to be careless in the administration of it." - The Alchemy of Happiness/The Knowledge of God

Hermeticism is the ultimate secret of the hermetic seal of Harpocrates for secret societies! So yes epiphany can be taught through words & text as well. Only the viewer can decide the moment of their epiphany. Not a stage play with rumbling music & a room full of incense to open their pineal gland. Are not alone the only methods of Alchemical transmutation of the soul. Exoteric is but a foundation for the Esoteric truths to be built upon. Initiation is the drama of egregore preparing you to experience intuition the 1st side of the triangle then comes inspiration the 2nd side of the triangle & the last is illumination. Hence the hermetic seal!


[edit on 12-12-2009 by Project2501]

LOL.

Well, no hearsay was involved but I do now know what the real secrets are about. I know why you aren't allowed to talk about them. Now, given their exceedingly "boring" nature and the fact that I am respectful, I will not even bother discussing the subject even though I'm not in one of these clubs.

The stuff people dream up is far more amusing. I wouldn't want to take part in spoiling the fun. But really, there's nothing nefarious and everyone should get a grip already.

I just thought I would add an outsiders view.

Man am I ashamed of myself in the past. I used to be one of those sheep who believed anything secret is evil. When will the world just grow up mentally?