Quantum Mechanics shows there's life after death

*Note I am very interested in Quantum Theory and the spirituality/science connections*

That being said the fallacies in this thread are amazing...

matter state changes = "soul" transpositions??? For one the second premise is the actual conclusion your trying to prove, and even then comparing it with something that is completely different.

Your saying matter changing states is the same as matter changing to energy (conscious soul entering a plane to a different dimension)... that is like comparing an ice cube changing to water to a nuclear explosion.

Originally posted by np6888
reply to post by R-evolve

 

I believe that when we measure the electron in the double-slit experiment, we create a universe with just the electron(or whatever particle we used in the experiment) in 3 dimensions(we live in the 4th), that does not change states(in other words, a universe with 3-dimensional space but with no time), and as soon as we stop measuring it, that universe disappears.

[edit on 6-12-2009 by np6888]

The double slit experiment erroneously gets quoted over and over again by the "New Age" community to proof the law of attraction. To stay on the scientific path on which the experiment was created: the outcome has nothing to do with an observer, which is a particle or wave detector anyway, not a human being.

Originally posted by R-evolve
reply to post by TheRepublic

 

I cant argue against your own experiences not without patronising you with the usual " im sure it seemed real ", i guess we have our own truths, mine is i dont believe self awareness and intelligence are separate or can be separated from the brain, it doesnt make me right but im comfortable with it until evidence proves otherwise.

Personal experiences are the only evidence a person needs to accept something. A person who has a NDE (near death experience) or a OBE (out of body experience) will have there mind made up on this subject.

The same goes for you, if you experienced a OBE or a NDE your opinion would be very different. It is a matter of perception and understanding.

reply to post by thegreatobserver


So what does the outcome have to deal with? I'm not challenging you in anyway just wondering what they have found out new about it.

Why does the double slip experiment act the way it does.

Maybe I can state an example for the ones that are not familiar w/ this - and I don't mean to step on the OP's toes, here......

I have really started to think of this in the last few years, and in an example of what I think COULD have happened to me, if this theory is correct -

When I was just 17, dad let me use his new camaro, to do some running around. I thought hell yeah, fast car, woo hoo! I was behind 4 -5 vehicles w/ the front joker holding up the line going under the speed limit, and no one was passing. Time to see what this car can do. I went out into the oncoming lane, and put the peddle down hard and fast. Then over the crest in front of me, a transport truck was barreling down, which I failed to realize (young, dumb) and instead of braking and looking like an ass, I thought, yeah I can make it.

I just barely got into the front position by mere feet, just missed by the truck. The adrenaline was crazy, I was so scared. Now, with this theory, if this is what the OP is saying, is - On that day, to everyone around me, I had a tragic accident, and was killed. But in MY reality, I narrowly avoided death. In other words, I slipped into a parallel dimension, where I made it, and no one lost anybody... here. If that makes sense.


Edit to add that my slow typing has just proven that several answers have been posted in the time it took me to write this, and I do believe I have not given a decent example after all. sorry -

[edit on 12/6/2009 by hhcore]

[edit on 12/6/2009 by hhcore]

Originally posted by oconnection

Originally posted by R-evolve
reply to post by TheRepublic

 

I cant argue against your own experiences not without patronising you with the usual " im sure it seemed real ", i guess we have our own truths, mine is i dont believe self awareness and intelligence are separate or can be separated from the brain, it doesnt make me right but im comfortable with it until evidence proves otherwise.

Personal experiences are the only evidence a person needs to accept something. A person who has a NDE (near death experience) or a OBE (out of body experience) will have there mind made up on this subject.

The same goes for you, if you experienced a OBE or a NDE your opinion would be very different. It is a matter of perception and understanding.

Unfortunately personal experiences arent the only evidence some people need to accept something, many people will believe anything and its why so many con artists make money from new age ideas. I could experience OBE but theres nothing to say i wouldnt rationalise it based on my current views in life; meaning id take the scientists explanation over the gurus.

I get your point though we are nothing if not a collection of our own experiences, i think when those experiences happen in your life are vital to how you view them, certain views of mine are now set in stone almost to a point id deny my own eyes in order for them to stay that way. I was more open minded 10 years ago.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by thegreatobserver

 

So what does the outcome have to deal with? I'm not challenging you in anyway just wondering what they have found out new about it.

Why does the double slip experiment act the way it does.

Properties of light are both, wave-like as well as particle-like. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle tells us that the universe is a frenetic place. There is a trade off between the precision of measurements of position and velocity as well as in the precision of energy measurements and how long one takes to do the measurement.

Quantum mechanics asserts that you can't say that a particle has precisely such and such energy at precisely such and such moment in time. There are fluctuations.

This might lead some to think that it has to do with a clumsy observer which is not true.

Further, what is quoted as "the observer" in these experiments is not really a conscious observer but a particle or wave detector.

Unfortunately personal experiences arent the only evidence some people need to accept something, many people will believe anything and its why so many con artists make money from new age ideas. I could experience OBE but theres nothing to say i wouldnt rationalise it based on my current views in life; meaning id take the scientists explanation over the gurus.

I get your point though we are nothing if not a collection of our own experiences, i think when those experiences happen in your life are vital to how you view them, certain views of mine are now set in stone almost to a point id deny my own eyes in order for them to stay that way. I was more open minded 10 years ago.

Personally I'm not out to convince others, I just hope we all can have an open mind.

Also I believe the point of this thread is to give some credit scientifically to the idea of OBO and life after death. People who have such experiences are not worried about what happens when they die, rather they feel they have at least an idea of what it will be like.

You are right, there is not a whole lot a person could do to convince others if they are not aware of such things. The best way to convince someone else is to have them convince themselves, if you know what I'm getting at.

Why is it that some people with age tend to lock in they're beliefs and give no head room for possibilities? It's more of a general question and not directed to anybody in particular.

As of now I've found that my previous beliefs have changed radically and nothing is set in stone, compared to 10 years ago. I hope this never changes. =)



[edit on 6-12-2009 by oconnection]

reply to post by thegreatobserver


Okay so basically, they really don't know what really happens, but they do know it is not because of the observer.

Do you have any links I can visit where I can read up on Quantum mechanics that kind of eases me into it all? I find this stuff amazing.

reply to post by oconnection


Whats set in stone for me is i now require proof and am cynical of extraordinary claims. I no longer believe what i would like to believe because i like the idea of it. People take comfort in certain beliefs but id rather be presented with cold hard facts regardless of the romance they may take out of life. Im open minded to new evidence i suppose though i wont kid myself id understand half of what im being presented with.

There is a thread here that has a link to a photo of the spirit (energy) leaving the body at the moment of death. I have seen older photos that show the energy floating up from the body but I can't find them.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fountain magazine:
"The Kirlian technique attracted much attention in many universities in Russia. In 1968 doctors V. Inyushin, W. Grisshchenko, N. Vorobev, N. Shoinki, N. Federova, and F. Gibadulin stated in a joint declaration that â??All living organisms not only have a physical body composed of atoms and molecules, but they also have an energy body which is a replica of the physical one.â? This second body was called the â??bioplasmic body"
www.fountainmagazine.com...

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Well, they actually do know what happens. It's called quantum jitter. The properties of light switch back and forth, from particle-like to wave-like and back.

Recommended reading:

*The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene
*Feynman's Sum Over Path

reply to post by thegreatobserver


I'll right thanks.

But wouldn't that mean the particles would project differently every time, observer or not?

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
So if your hit by a car and die, there has to be a state where your not dead and maybe you broke your legs.

You will always find yourself in the reality where you survive death.

These states are connected and therefore there has to be quantum immortality.

not sure if i understand this right. i'm pretty sure i can jump off a building or out of a plane where there is no possible reality i can find myself in where i survive death. also i get older every day.. closer to death. eventually i am going to die for real, and it will not be possible for my mind to create a reality where i am still alive.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


It depends on whether you use a particle detector or a wave detector.

Originally posted by thegreatobserver

Originally posted by np6888
reply to post by R-evolve

 

I believe that when we measure the electron in the double-slit experiment, we create a universe with just the electron(or whatever particle we used in the experiment) in 3 dimensions(we live in the 4th), that does not change states(in other words, a universe with 3-dimensional space but with no time), and as soon as we stop measuring it, that universe disappears.

[edit on 6-12-2009 by np6888]

The double slit experiment erroneously gets quoted over and over again by the "New Age" community to proof the law of attraction. To stay on the scientific path on which the experiment was created: the outcome has nothing to do with an observer, which is a particle or wave detector anyway, not a human being.

Wrong! Your answer is given over and over again to "debunk" the effect consciousness has on the DS experiment.

Sure, the particle passes a measuring device, but the physical act of measuring, observing, the particle has no effect on the outcome.

This is proven in the Quantum Eraser Exp.

If they measure the path of the particle, and immediately erase the info gained by the measurement, the particle still behaves as if it wasn't measured at all. It turns into a wave.

If they measure the particle, but don't erase the info, the particle will behave as a particle.

The only variable in this set up, is the info of detection reaching the conscious experimenter, or not.

This PROVES that the device that observes the particle, is not responsible for the outcome.

I've been in many discussions about this, and the skeptics always say the same:

"....New Age this that,....., the observer device is what's messing with the particle,..."

I never got an answer as to why it matters if the info of the measurement is erased, or not.

The erasing and not erasing of info, is the only variable in the Quantum Eraser Exp.

I know why it matters.

Please do you research before you go "debunking".

Originally posted by thegreatobserver
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

 

It depends on whether you use a particle detector or a wave detector.

This is a load of BS.

Do you actually know what you are talking about?

In the original DS experiment they use a screen that can show both a particle pattern and a wave pattern.

In the newer DS experiments they use other means to establish the form, but it doesn't depend on wether they use a particle detector, or wave detector, at all.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by thegreatobserver

 

I'll right thanks.

But wouldn't that mean the particles would project differently every time, observer or not?

In the DS exp., particles only act like particles when they're being watched, and by watched I mean, watched by a conscious observer, as I lined out in my previous posts

If not watched, the particle turns into a wave.

So you could theorize that our universe exists of waves of potential, and our consciousness collapses the wave form into matter, according to our expectations and parameters.


[edit on 7-12-2009 by Point of No Return]

well I can tell you this and no physics involved. Death is just the death of the personality not the "soul"(I use the word soul loosely here). If u can see death as a type of amnesia and that when you die you wake up in another body to start life all over again without prior knowledge of your previous life.
Also if you can believe that the Universe has only one soul and its that soul which is in every single living creature then you can see the logic in the OP view on death and quantum processes.

reply to post by Point of No Return


I'm not trying to debunk anything. Just straight science. The properties of light are wave-like as well as particle-like. BOTH. If you measure or not!

Do your research in this field and you might learn something if your arrogance allows it.

And I'm not saying consciousness has no effect on reality. It has. The DS is however not the proof for this.