Americans incompetent to fill jobs, corporations must import foreigner workers to meet demand

reply to post by apacheman


So it is wrong to be successful in America. Thats the reason immigrants flock here. The American dream right. I worked my way through university. Got a masters. CPA. Worked my way up from AP clerk to Director Of Finance for an international manufacturing company. If I can do it others can as well. But I'll be damned if I'm going to be ashamed of it. And when I left for Amsterdam both management and labor were hiring. Americans have lost their will. Which is a shame.

I think it's a combination of things.

1) US/Multinational corporations have sold out the American people. All they care about is the bottomline and there are TONS of highly educated foreigners that will do the same job for peanuts. These same foreigners come here and get tons of free federal money and subsidized educations by the AMERICAN TAXPAYER.....it's disgusting. Companies don't want to pay an American standard of living anymore, and it's NOT because they can't afford to.

2) The K-12 public education is abysmal and downright laughable when it comes to preparing kids for higher education, especially the science and math intensive professions. College has been dumbed down to fit the students instead of the student being prepared to fit the colleges and universities.

But an engineer is an engineer. I know lots of middle class American engineers who are PLENTY qualified for lots of jobs. One thing that is sad about companies nowadays is there are fewer and fewer entry level positions and fewer and fewer companies offering on the job training. They want the perfect candidate who can hit the ground running........unfortunately the American candidate fights for what he/she is worth....their foreign counterpart will not. Even Europeans who come here have a better standard of living than they would in Europe or England.....i.e. own a car, a home, etc.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


We have been the wolf at the top of the hill able to eat whenever we were hungry. Now the number of other wolves are growing and we've gotten lazy that's for sure. But DO NOT underestimate the amount of resolve, innovation, and capacity for hard work we Americans have. This is still the greatest country in the world in many ways. You know what it takes to own a car and a house in Europe or England? The US used to have the strongest middle class in the world. Now we are heading into a society like Europe where everyone lives in apartments and takes public transportation everywhere. NO THANKS! I want to own a car, own land and own a home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And like you I've worked my butt off to get to where I am. There are still a lot of us Americans who are smart, capable, and have a disciplined work ethic.

I'm an RN and it's not the most respectable job nor does it require the amount of intelligence or knowledge say a doctor has but it is a job not many can nor will do nonetheless. My profession is been infiltrated by less qualified, lower paid nurses from other countries for years. So I guess they are better workers and smarter? NOPE! They will work for less than what I make. Plain and simple. Meanwhile the CEO of my hospital drives a $500K sports car. But we are a "nonprofit" hospital. Go figure.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
The US used to have the strongest middle class in the world. Now we are heading into a society like Europe where everyone lives in apartments and takes public transportation everywhere. NO THANKS! I want to own a car, own land and own a home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And like you I've worked my butt off to get to where I am. There are still a lot of us Americans who are smart, capable, and have a disciplined work ethic.

Well put.

We have plenty of talent and skill here but there is a concerted effort to reduce the income of the US citizens and it is happening on many levels.

A weak middle class is what the politicians, corporations and special interests want. They call it globalization and progression. I call it treason.

I have no problem with immigration. I have a problem with the fact that immigration is being used as another weapon against the citizens of the US and it is being done by our government and big business.

reply to post by badgerprints


Why, exactly, is a weak middle class a priority for politicians, corporations, and special interests. And who, exactly, are these "special interests' ". Like it or not it is the middle class who pay the most taxes in the U.S. Why disrupt the money flow?

reply to post by concernedcitizan


Because when you have globalization there is a much LARGER group of people wanting to rise up and become a middle class. The people that control the banks that control western society don't care if the middle class comes from another country or the USA. They will all be taxed the same and taken advantage of the same. The people that REALLY run our country (USA) are not loyal to any one country or any one group of people. They are loyal to their banks/bankers. That's all. Most of the US government is now run by hyperglobalists who care more about corporations and their pockets than "people". The US middle class has been milked and taxed heavily for the last 40 years. They probably figure we are dry now and if we are taxed anymore will probably lose our support. So in essence they are done with us and need to move on. Hence, other emerging markets like China. Can you imagine how much money will flow from a burgeoning Chinese middle class in the form of taxes?

reply to post by badgerprints



Immigration is great when those immigrants assimilate and fight for the same standard of living their fellow Americans do. But when you have a nurse from Africa willing to work for far less and is happy to go from living in a hut with no AC and central heating to living in an apartment, having a car, etc. they are in heaven. Globalization is a race to the bottom.....and it will be a very bumpy one for most Americans unfortunately.

I mean I look at people nowadays who can barely get through high school and I just shake my head. They have no chance. And when the brown stuff hits the fan they will be sticking their hand in everyone else' pocket, encouraged to do so by our corrupt government.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


We're How many trillions in debt?

That means in the hole.

The middle class has no chance of paying that back but the do have a chance of stopping the insane spending from continuing.

It's a slim chance but they are the only demographic who has a motive for ending the insanity. The rest of the country who are wealthy or living on government subsidy (28% of personal income in the US) want the system to continue down this road.

The middle class citizens in the US are the last speed bump between democracy and a world bank govrnment.

We've outlived our usefulness to the powers that be and are now just an impediment to them.

We are not needed or wanted as self sufficient citizens.

They need us to need them. That means moving us into the lower class and making us dependent on the government.

reply to post by badgerprints


But for anything to change the middle class HAS to adopt a nothing to lose attitude and we need to come together and help each other when the system we disrupt comes crumbling down. I don't see those two things happening. The government has the US middle class right where they want them........none of us will break the law, have too many bills to spend all our free time working like a dog instead of fighting the government and banks, and we are all in a stupor with entertainment and technology and our creature comforts. You know what needs to start happening? We need to start seeing Citbanks, Chase banks, BoA's tagged with spray paint or burned down. No innocent people dead. This has to happen on a country wide scale. Make sure other businesses are not hurt just burn down the banks. Would the middle class ever do something like that? HECK NO! Nobody wants to go to jail. I don't blame them. But they can't put us all in jail. It's going to take a Nelson Mandela type of sacrifice for things to change, a sacrifice most middle class Americans are too scared and too selfish to make. They can't throw all of us in jail that's for sure! Let's get cops, lawyers, judges, involved. We all need to make a statement! BURN DOWN THE BANKS! LOL....it would never happen.

Politicians and people used to get tarred and feathered, the patriots of yesteryear threw tea into the ocean.........stuff like that doesn't happen nowadays. So nothing will change.

While I applaud your zeal, the fact is that the middle class wouldn't burn down the banks and rebel because they don't realize what is going on.

They are split down the middle by political means and are mostly ignorant of the fact that they are targeted for a reduction in quality of life and income.

I talk about this with my friends, neighbors, co-workers, family....they listen with something akin to morbid fascination and then they say...nothing.

They shake it off and go on with things the way they are. They cannot accept what is in front of them.

I don't think they will wake up in time.

Originally posted by apacheman
I'll argue the point that the entire US educational system is such a complete and abysmal failure that out millions of graduates each year, none are competent and well-educated.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think

Originally posted by timski

Originally posted by apacheman
I'll argue the point that the entire US educational system is such a complete and abysmal failure that out millions of graduates each year, none are competent and well-educated.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think

The cliche of our elites goes like this.

If you give a horse flouridated water, it will not be able to think.

Be glad you never attended a drug infested American public school.

Laundering all the drug money taken from kids is another source of great wealth for scumbag bankers.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by badgerprints

 

We need to start seeing Citbanks, Chase banks, BoA's tagged with spray paint or burned down. No innocent people dead. This has to happen on a country wide scale. Make sure other businesses are not hurt just burn down the banks. Would the middle class ever do something like that? HECK NO! Nobody wants to go to jail. I don't blame them. But they can't put us all in jail. It's going to take a Nelson Mandela type of sacrifice for things to change, a sacrifice most middle class Americans are too scared and too selfish to make. They can't throw all of us in jail that's for sure! Let's get cops, lawyers, judges, involved. We all need to make a statement! BURN DOWN THE BANKS! LOL....it would never happen.

You could burn the banks of the scumbag bankers then you would never know the full scope and depth of their crimes against humanity. They should be audited and hacked. Burning their banks would be playing into their hands. I would not be surprised if the bankers are planning on burning their own banks and blaming angry poor people.

The solution is protectionism. Close the borders for everything except tourism, and end all the BS.
If the Chinese have to buy their own garbage, they will have to pay their population a living wage to buy it. Two problems solved.
In the meantime, we have to live with American made electronics. Seems like a worthwhile trade-off.
Vote Ron Paul.

Interesting post, though some of the comments about the American worker I would disagree. I, like many who I know, are unemployed. And trust me I would, if they were hiring, go down to McDonalds and flip a burger for min wage and Health insurance. I am more than qualified to manage a store of a moderate size and have many skills, but as I have found out, there are no jobs to be found. Have I looked, yes, what have I applied for, anything and everything. When I am putting in 40 to 60 applications a week, that should be a good indication that I am wanting a job, and not just in one field. I am not too proud to scrub a toliet, or flip a burger, I just want a job.

Some are finally beginning to understand how capitalism works, I see.

Capitalism as practiced involves compressing the future profit of all endeavors into the NOW as much as possible, then leveraging that compressed profit still more. It not only is unsustainable, it borders on insanity.

It's like planting a forest, then calculating the maximum potential profit over fifty years, then selling shares in that profit today, then using that buy the finished future lumber and selling the value added by changing it from trees to lumber tomorrow, all without ever having allowed the first tree to mature, much less be harvested. And at each stage a cut of the future profit is taken and spent now.

Executive salaries are estimated at anywhere from 400 to over 500 times the average worker's. How many executives make this sort of salary? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? Think of the implications of that, and you'll see why it is necessary to import ever-cheaper labor, and why that will destroy our standards of living.

Look at the bonus pool of Goldman-Sachs this year, then think about the performances they and other execs are getting bonusses for:

www.bloomberg.com...

Financial companies worldwide have reported about $1.7 trillion in losses and writedowns during the credit crunch, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Those losses are phantasmagorical future profits evaporating under the harsh light of day. They are also the future profits that the average American citizen planned to retire on. They've been fleeced a few too many times now, and as mentioned above, have been wrung dry. Worse, they've figured out the scam, even if they haven't figured out what to do about it yet.

The corporate world needs fresh suckers who will buy into 401Ks and the idea of entrusting their money to financial managers. Every foreigner brought into this country under the H1B and H2B programs, brings with them a willingness to accept less than an American would because they haven't a clue how much it really costs to exist here, and how little is actually provided. Many of them bring an acceptance of corruption and incompetent authority that an American wouldn't tolerate. Many of the executive types come from autocratic countries that are used to treating workers like slaves and continue the attitude here, spreading it like a cancer.

It is simply unbelievable and unacceptable to assert that with 30 or 40 million Americans out of work, not one of them is qualified to fill a position an imported worker does.

I agree with the thread title. Would have given a Flag and Star if you would have included Paranoid.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

What field are you in, where are you located and what do you pay?

I've found that H1B and H2B workers tend to get paid less than prevailing wages.

I encourage people to finish the sentence:

"We can't find American workers willing to work."

The complete sentence goes:

"We can't find American workers willing to work for what we're willing to pay them."

The reason is that what corporations are willing to pay isn't covering expenses, especially educational ones.

You seem to be saying you find your all fellow Americans uneducated and unemployable. Of course, you yourself don't fit that mold. Please.

How many of your employees drain the money from our economy and send it home? How many use our taxpayer supported services?

You seem to be part of the problem.

You are spot on, the companies can't find american workers that are willing to accept the pay that they want to pay them. American companies want this foreign workers because they are docile in alot of ways and also don't really know how to express their rights if it's even possible because if many of you haven't noticed, essentially the worker is a bonded worker that can't leave to another company. They are under contract and if they break it the company can fire them and then they are up for deportation. They are calling american workers lazy and all that is BS. You get what you pay for period. You see american workers must make enough money to pay for their schooling to pay for their rent/mortgage and food added. Also they need benefits because they have nowhere to go to get STATE FUNDED HEALTHCARE FOR FREE. So they have to pay for everything through their pay so asking for a good living wage and better isn't to far out. A foreign worker can always go home and if they are able to go overseas to work or go to school like america, they have means themselves.

Our countries leaders are killing America and many of them cant figure it out. If you listen to many of these imbeciles in charge, they can't figure out the obvious. And yet they are making decisions on America's future. I will agree with the CNBC article in one aspect, and that is we are in the twilight of our empire, and our kids will inherit a country that is extremely diminished in economic and political power. We will have our kids one day going to other parts of the world to find a future instead of staying here. That sounds pessimistic, but it's going to happen.

There are other things that should be taken into consideration as well.

An example:
Companies in California can't find qualified American workers. Texas has a multitude of qualified American workers looking for work. But's here's the dilema .. John from Texas isn't going to just up and relocate his family to California. The cost of living is much higher. The crime rates are much higher. The public schools are over crowded and full of gangs, drugs, and violence, which is a direct effect on the quality of education that John's children will receive.

Should John move his middle class family from Texas to California to become a lower class family? My answer is No.

The biggest problem we have in America is the outrageous cost of living. I'm not talking about cell phones and sport cars and movie tickets. I'm talking about the absolute basic neccesseties of life.
House, Transportation, Ultilties, Food, and family expenses.
Let's break it down ..
Minimum Wage = $7.25/hr
Annual Work Hours = 2,000
Gross Annual Salary = $14,500
IRS Standard Deduction = $5,450
Taxable Income = $9,050
10% Tax based on IRS 2008 Tax Bracket = $905
Adjusted Annual Salary = $13,595
Monthly Income = $1,132.91
Average Rent/Mortgage = $500
Monthly Income After Rent = $632.91
Monthly Budget by Day(30) = $21.09

That means you can spend up to $21 a day before you start going over budget.
Keep in mind that we've only figured in our monthly Rent/Mortgage of $500. Some people pay more and some less, but not much less.

We haven't considered Groceries, Utilities, Transportation Expenses or Family Expenses. Nor have we figured in Health Insurance and Medical Offsets or Emergencies.

Some people may argue that those numbers are based on a single worker making minimum wage. It doesn't matter.

When you start figuring in a working spouse, all of the expenses go up. The tax bracket and amount of tax goes up. Health Care expenses go up.

If you figure in children, then other expenses increase plus the cost of day care/child care, clothing expense, educational expense.

The problem is NOT a lack of Educated Competent Americans to fill jobs and it's NOT from Greedy American workers expectations.

The problem is the fact that the cost of living and cost of services in America have increased faster than the means for which Americans need to live.

We're left with little to no choice to take out loans in order to keep our head above water. Loans that come attached with high interest rates. We use credit cards to help soften the economic blow and those credit cards come attached with high interest rates. More times than not we have to take out additional loans to help curb the cost of paying off the other loans.

It's a never ending cycle of economic suicide.

We go through life working our asses off in an attempt to carve out a minimal life for ourselves. Our family and relationships become weakend and suffer from the hardships.

You want to go to college? Take out a hefty loan that you'll be paying back for 20-30 years.
You want to buy a home? Take out a hefty loan that you'll be paying back for 20-30 years.
You want to buy a car? Take out a hefty loan that you will be paying back for 3-10 years.

I have some ideas that would help fix our problems. Some people may not agree with them, some people might. Some people may think that they're down right insane, while others may think they're geniuse.

Originally posted by rogerstigers
I can tell you from the experience of giving countless interviews, that the state of American talent (in my part of the country) in my industry is pretty abysmal. I hate hiring people on work visa's simply because I know many people who need a job. We have tried lowering our hiring standards, but it is still a challenge, especially when our customers don't care about who does the work, so long as it is done right, on time, and on budget.

The solution is, of course, to put trade education back into schools. Cut out this standardized testing crap and actually start teaching kids to compete and succeed in the world.

i agree with you. in a typical meeting i see one american and the rest from india and china.

i am going back to school to get a degree in engineering. a four year degree is what you'll need (minimum) to get the jobs in the future.


-subfab