Atheists to protect ATS - Fight the Fundies!

Originally posted by JayinAR
These types of threads absolutely infuriate me. The only dark-spot I see on these boards in regards to religion are threads such as this.
Is the OP so insecure in his knowledge that he actually feels *threatened* by a person who abandons reason for faith? Surely if there are enough people like him on these boards they should be able to easily determine who's participation in the threads lacks reason and just sorta' shrug them off. On the other hand, once you start censorship, it has a habit of snowballing. This is why ATS continually battles with itself over the drug-use topics.

This thread is nothing more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.
And I say this as a man who lacks faith.

JayinAR: Could it be though that you do not see the other side of the problem because you agree with it? I stopped being involved for a couple of months because I would hit the "Recent Posts" Button and see posts like:
"The World is going to hell and it's because of the dirty Atheists" And see many thread posts full of pure hate towards one group or another simply because they are different and one religion or another says they should be destroyed.

Everyone tends to remember the things that make them angry while ignoring the slights against others. These problems exist because nobody seems to notice the waves they make or participate in, they only see other peoples ripples disturbing the 'pond'.

This thread and others of it's ilk are self indulgent claptrap.

Yes, you are going to find people of faith on this and other forums who are going to take advantage of any opportunity for proselytizing, but they are few in number and certainly outnumbered by those who are infuriated by religions, faith and Christianity who will take any opportunity to deride those they disagree with.

If you start a thread on any religious subject at all (say, the Donation of Constantine or the possibility of ET's being Nephilim) you have a much better chance of someone feeling compelled to say something akin to 'well, if you're going to believe in some invisible man in the sky' or 'it's an established fact that Jesus never existed, so'. Their interjection has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and is clearly an opportunity to preach atheism.

Do I hear the clarion call of the OP for a halt to such behavior? No. What I do hear in this thread is exactly what many people on the anti-religious side complain about; the cry of persecution.

Have a shred of intellectual consistency and acknowledge (or realize) that useless interjection is a two way street that is trod more often by the anti-religious than the faithful.

Eric

reply to post by Anamnesis


In your opinion good internet-person. In your opinion!

I believe otherwise, and I'm sure others who do not hold religious convictions (that skew thoughts and logical reality) would agree with me when I argue my point.

Unfortunately I don't subscribe to sarcasm - on the net anyway.

The Para.

reply to post by OldThinker


Here come the stock postings:

"Here is a huge list of some famous people / scientists, some from as close as last century that believe in God or once said the word God. Therefor God exists".

Here is the last time you cut and pasted the same:

ATS

Your list shows that no matter how brilliant the mind, it can still be brainwashed.


[edit on 1/12/2009 by LightFantastic]

reply to post by EricD


You have ... more or less ... just given the argument against Secularism right there. You have built a comfortable seat there on the fence, with a handy loudhailer rack to voice your opinions from afar.

If the traffic going one way along this two-way road you speak of, suffers from one direction of traffic constantly stopping the other direction and telling them to turn around - would you not suggest that this is unfair? The traffic on your metaphorical road should be able to flow freely in whicever direction it needs to?

If this traffic disrupting flow becomes a problem, perhaps some form of metaphorical contraflow system needs to be put in place? To stop that bad traffic from disrupting the rest of the traffic?

Verstehe? Comprende? Understand?

The Para.

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

Don't get me wrong - I agree.

In terms of analysing a subject, or understanding something, education about religion or philosophy is indeed very important, almost a necessity.

However, the tangible application of that religion or philosophy on ATS appears to be highly detrimental to the sites purpose.

The Para.

Heh, application of anything can be destructive depending on the person talking
This site being what it is does away with the rule of politeness "No talking about: religion, politics or sex". Given that everyone obsesses on those to some degree, combined with the relative anonymity of the internet: Everyone needs to develop a thick skin and some patience otherwise, nothing would really be talked about.

Basically to all: It doesn't matter if you are an Atheist, Theist of whatever flavour, or a cat spirit possessing a mime. Keep your militancy in your pants and talk about things like sane adults. Later you can dress up as Shirley Temple and sacrifice pez dispensers to the potato god if you so deem. But try and take something useful from every discussion-even the ones you disagree with until frothing at the mouth.

If you can't do that,, whats the point of even being here?

Richard Dawkins is a fundamentalist atheist.
He is as close-minded and as backward as a burka groping Taliban.
I don't see much difference between a close-minded fundamentalist Christian
and a close-minded atheist. Both have made up their mind
and point their unhappy snouts upward.

Dawkins reminds of some of the unhappy stuffy professors I met in college.
Who can't laugh at themselves, stopped being curious about the new but protect
solidified concepts and theories like Elmer Fudd protecting his carrots from Bugs Bunny.
Many atheists lost their sense of wonder as well as their sense of humor.

Bill Maher tends to be open to new spiritual insights if they have the "aha' effect.
That's saved his sense of humor.

reply to post by lordtyp0


Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I proclaimed a lack of faith in religious matters?

And in regards to extremist type fundamentalists, I tend to ignore them. From both sides of the debate, Xters and Atheists alike.

The only reason I am even responding in this thread was because I was taken agasp by the other ridiculous thread that currently sits at the top of the page (the thread where the op was reported to have been banned for his blatant misconduct) and saw this in the recent posts and figured this was some sort of follow-up thread...

I make no qualms about where I stand on the debate. I enjoy religious discussion and I tend to lean towards things that can be evidenced. However, I also realize that personally I have run the gambit on ways to look at this issue as it has been of keen interest to me for many years now. I have gone from devoted churchgoer to "evil atheist" and back to where I currently sit on the issue - in the middle.

So no, I don't agree with fundamentalism, from any front. I am just sick of people taking a stance that they know is agreeable with empirical data and using it to bully people who pursue a road of faith.

It is unbecoming of a decent person, IMO. And for me it is doubly worse as these same types of people put on the mask of a learned person. They look like fools in my eyes.

I'd love it if ATS was more secular. Kinda like it used to be. Other than for religious conspiracies, maybe, I think everyone should leave their religion or lack thereof at the door. Hell I don't know. Could that happen somehow by appealing to people's reason? I really do despise having other people's religions shoved in my face. I simply don't discuss mine and don't think that way to segregate or categorize or label people and I expect the same courtesy. Period.

I have to agree that it's extremely annoying to be following a topic only to have a totally random, usually barely on topic religious post interrupt. It's just plain rude. It's also pretty annoying to have the religious topics pop up over and over on the recent posts page...sometimes when I peek it seems like there's nothing even really happening in the topic but bickering, if that. I don't often sink to calling troll, but when I do it's typically in the religious vein.

I asked for an omit button, but I don't think it's happening. I was pretty much told, just don't go in there. Ugh. That's so not the point.

Other putting my two cents in for keeping it secular, 'm not in for a "fight," whatever that means.There are other places to go find like minds about religion. Does it have to be ATS?

As for liking someone enough to try to convert them? Pfffffffft. Outta my face. I think the vocally and evangelically religious create most of the ill-will directed their way. But then they probably view that as some sort of badge of honor...that's they're being effective. Hell...what do I know.

I see a LOT of threads about how "Christians are stupid", "Lets stop the Christians", etc.., every day at ATS and yet i dont call for them to be banned or quit ATS.
I guess im older and have tolerance.


oh, and cars in traffic arent the same as humans on a chat board.

Peace to you from a fundie.............

[edit on 1-12-2009 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Parallex


Yes, you are in fact arguing for censorship, whether you will admit it or not.
Don't hide behind the old "it clogs up the system" excuse for trying to have a differing opinion omitted.
Let ATS determine what is a burden on the system.
I mean, I'm assuming your mind works pretty much as efficiently as mine and everyone else's. That being said, it can perform about 1 trillion calculations per second. I'm quite sure you are capable of ignoring posts that you don't want to read.

From where I sit, religion can be very beneficial to all sorts of topics... If you don't see it that way, maybe you should just ignore it.

Religion is ingrained in nearly every aspect of our society. Therefore, its influence is something that all people who "search for the truth" should be aware of, and account for.

I hope you don't take offense when I say once more that this whole thread appears to me to be little more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I proclaimed a lack of faith in religious matters?

I think we could all be forgiven for thinking otherwise. There is no middle-ground in the question of faith. You either have it, or you don't. If you 'don't know', then you don't have faith. Be honest with yourself.

And in regards to extremist type fundamentalists, I tend to ignore them. From both sides of the debate, Xters and Atheists alike.

Atheists are not fundamentalists. We have nothing to be fundamental about. We just tend to stick to the facts. Oh, and not believe in ghost stories.

The only reason I am even responding in this thread was because I was taken agasp by the other ridiculous thread that currently sits at the top of the page (the thread where the op was reported to have been banned for his blatant misconduct) and saw this in the recent posts and figured this was some sort of follow-up thread...

By blatant misconduct, you mean atheism and secular thinking? I'm not defending the person in question by any means, but your inference was hard to miss...

I make no qualms about where I stand on the debate. I enjoy religious discussion and I tend to lean towards things that can be evidenced. However, I also realize that personally I have run the gambit on ways to look at this issue as it has been of keen interest to me for many years now. I have gone from devoted churchgoer to "evil atheist" and back to where I currently sit on the issue - in the middle.

There we are, I used to be a church-goer and believer myself. Then I educated myself. Now I'm free.

So no, I don't agree with fundamentalism, from any front. I am just sick of people taking a stance that they know is agreeable with empirical data and using it to bully people who pursue a road of faith.

Spoken like a true fundie. Empirical date is empirical date for a reason - its empirical! Evidence. Reality. Tangibility. If I can't bash you over the head with that, then I can't bash you over the head with anything to wake you up.

It is unbecoming of a decent person, IMO. And for me it is doubly worse as these same types of people put on the mask of a learned person. They look like fools in my eyes.

I wont respond to that, as you're obviously trying to bait me. I would never suggest I'm learned, nor a decent person. But I'm proud to be an active and defiant atheist. Play nice.

The Para.

reply to post by Parallex


Are you deliberately reading into my post something that wasn't there?

I am NOT in favor of off topic interjection regardless of viewpoint or source.

I was decrying your lack of objectivity in not recognizing that it occurs from both sides of the atheist/believer divide and frequently more often from the atheist side.

I'm against off topic interjection, topic thread and thread hijacking. It seems like you may be as well, as long as it is prompted by people of faith.

Eric

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

people who pursue a road of faith.

That's not a road, it's a treadmill, and those people are going nowhere -- but they don't yet realize it.

Lets hope they one day do, lest they squander their entire lives in the pursuit of a fictional narrative that is achievable (in their eyes) only after death.

Honestly, can you think of a better way to control somebody? It's diabolical the way religion systematically manages to coerce people into wasting their lives. The only catch in religion is that you have to work until you die -- what the faithful don't realize is that death is not the beginning, it's the end.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Parallex

 

Let ATS determine what is a burden on the system.

I agree completely. However, I'm using exactly the same tactic as the fundies do - I'm talking about the subject, and applying it on ATS, against the wished of many. If ATS wants integrity and a TRULY inquiring populace, the religious ingress must be controlled.

From where I sit, religion can be very beneficial to all sorts of topics... If you don't see it that way, maybe you should just ignore it.

No, I cannot ignore it. Religion from where I sit is very damaging and dangerous. Therefore, I must combat it. Or at the very least contain it. We can't both be right?

Religion is ingrained in nearly every aspect of our society. Therefore, its influence is something that all people who "search for the truth" should be aware of, and account for.

I completely agree. Massively agree. However, awareness of it, and accounting for it, are worlds away from enacting it. Is ATS a Christian organisation? I think not. Therefore the Christian scourge, along with all religious conviction must be removed.

I hope you don't take offense when I say once more that this whole thread appears to me to be little more than a bully-pulpit for an insecure mind.

It's ok - I don't take offense. I just pity you.

The Para.

reply to post by Parallex


Alright, I see your game now.
Yeah, you are one of those people I was speaking about.
I never claimed there was middle ground in regards to faith. In fact, I stated just the opposite...TWICE. When I say "I LACK FAITH in religious matters" that MEANS that I DO NOT HAVE FAITH.

You see, this is what i consider fundamentally atheistic. You are putting words into my mouth after I have went out of the way to explain exactly what I said.

In fact, I'm sure that my eight year old son could comprehend that sentence.

So, you'll excuse me if I avoid reading the rest of your post.

reply to post by JayinAR


At the risk of sounding like you've just lost the argument, stay a while. Talk more - your viewpoint, whilst antagonistic, is very interesting.

It's funny how you think Atheists put words in your mouth. Maybe, because they can vocalise and communicate the very things you would like to, but cant due to some deficiency?

Debate the topic - are Christians using the flag and star system to drown out Atheist threads?

The Para.

Here you can start first.
In the upper left hand side of the screen it says Conspiracies in Religions so get out. You don't want christinas cluttering up your religious talks then lead by example STOP talking about religion and leave CiR. There is a wide variety of topics to discuss here on ATS and boards for them. Why you would come to the Religion board and ask that there is a religion free zone in it is retarded. Go to another board, if the christians come and try to convert you click the complaint button.
The people i see the most preaching on here and ramming their beliefs down other's throats is the athiests, like now a call to arms?Shove it. please find one of the MANY other boards that have nothing to do with religion and post there

reply to post by Parallex


I believe a moderator would be much more qualified to answer such a question.
Afterall, they have access to that sort of information.

And it is nice to see how you've narrowed your "call to arms" to one of your follow up questions now that you have been called out on nearly every point you tried to make.

Lost an argument? There was never an argument to begin with. Just a pulpit to talk trash from.
Tell me again how much of a fundie I am. It is pretty amusing.

A call to arms... Hmm... What the problem is here, is that some atheists are upset because there is not the all out assault on Christians by the greater majority of atheists that frequent the ATS. They feel they are losing the debate, and they are right about that. Whenever a person reaches the point where they feel there position is threatened, they need a use of force, or war to further it, hence the "call to arms". You see this a lot when to people argue to the point of throwing fists at each other. Add this a simple contempt and hate for another's view point or belief and you get what you see in this thread by the OP.

I have seen about the same amount of threads for and against God. As a Christian, I will never be persuaded by any argument that an atheist makes telling me there is no God, but I open their threads and read because I desire to debate them on the issues with reason, logic, and scripture and science. But I find that too few atheists are willing to come to the table and jump in for the debate for the same reasons. Not all, but quite a few. To me it means that they are either unsure of what they claim is the truth about God, or they simply can't make a reasonable argument for their cause of a Godless universe and world.

So what am I left with ? The best possible news I have heard in a while. That the atheists are beginning to falter and the table. A crack, a chink has been found in the Armour. It used to be that some atheists could debate into the wee hours of the night without a forethought of dismay. They thought they had those Christians on the fence, on the ropes, on the run, but no... I leave you with this... I think it says what the OP is trying to say a little more clearer...


www.youtube.com...