ATS label all Global Warming threads as HOAX

reply to post by rhinoceros

*Greenhouse effect warms the planet
*Greenhouse gases contribute to greenhouse effect
*Humans pump huge quantities of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere

Anybody here who does not agree with the above?

I'll disagree with it.

• Yes, greenhouse gases contribute to the greenhouse effect, but no, the effect of a poor greenhouse gas such as carbon dioxide in minute quantities (the rise in CO2 from pre-industrial to present levels is 100 ppmv, only 0.01% of the total atmosphere) is not going to cause such severe consequences.
  
  
• Carbon dioxide is not even a very good greenhouse gas. It is not totally opaque to any frequencies, and only has two narrow absorption bands in its spectrum. Water vapor is a much more powerful greenhouse gas, and is probably responsible for the vast majority of the greenhouse effect of the planet as a whole.
  
  
• Care to define 'huge'? Yes, a gigaton of carbon dioxide sounds like a lot, but compare that to the size of the atmosphere and it's like saying tourists spitting into the ocean are raising sea level. Technically, yes they are, but the effect is immeasurable.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Jordan River

You didn't answer any of my questions. Explain the link between increase of 12C/13C ratio in atmospheric CO2 and pole shift. Then we'll talk more..

Climategate: it's all unravelling now

blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

And here is a name I have been waiting for.

Ken Lay

So many new developments: which story do we pick? Maybe best to summarise, instead. After all, it’s not like you’re going to find much of this reported in the MSM.

1. Australia’s Senate rejects Emissions Trading Scheme for a second time. Or: so turkeys don’t vote Christmas. Expect to see a lot more of this: politicians starting to become aware their party’s position on AGW is completely out of kilter with the public mood and economic reality. Kevin Rudd’s Emissions Trading Scheme – what Andrew Bolt calls “a $114 billion green tax on everything” – would have wreaked havoc on the coal-dependent Australian economy. That’s why several opposition Liberal frontbenchers resigned rather than vote with the Government on ETS; why Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull lost his job; and why the Senate voted down the ETS.

2. Danes caught fiddling their carbon credits. (Hat tip: Philip Stott) Carbon trading is the Emperor’s New Clothes of international finance. It was invented by none other than Ken Lay, whose Enron would currently be one of the prime beneficiaries in the global alternative energy market, if it hadn’t been shown to be (nearly) as fraudulent as the current AGW scam. It is a licence to fleece, cheat and rob. Still, jolly embarrassing for the Danes to get caught red handed, what with their hosting a conference shortly in which the world’s leaders will try, straight-faced, to persuade us that carbon emissions trading is the only viable way of defeating ManBearPig.

It was invented by none other than Ken Lay, whose Enron would currently be one of the prime beneficiaries in the global alternative energy market, if it hadn’t been shown to be (nearly) as fraudulent as the current AGW scam.

en.wikipedia.org...

Who was the late Ken Lay, the architect and chairman of Enron throughout its 16-year history? All parties to the current legislative debate on a CO2 cap-and-trade bill should know. After all, Lay’s tireless efforts to promote CO2 regulation and enact renewable energy quotas make him a father figure for HR 2354, the Waxman-Markey climate bill, what I have called the Enron Revitalization Act of 2009.

masterresource.org...

The Enron Revitalization Act of 2009 (from the Kyoto Protocol to Waxman-Markey)

The 219–212 passage of HR 2454 inspires another look at Enron’s infamous “Kyoto memo,” written almost 13 years ago by company lobbyist John Palmisano. Indeed, an Enron memo upon House passage of the Waxman-Markey climate bill would have been similar! Change the dates and some other specifics and the bottom line would be the same–potential gains for Enron’s profit centers in wind, solar, CO2-emissions trading, energy outsourcing, and natural gas.

One can imagine a quotation like this from Enron’s fabled public relations department, hyperbolizing a half-victory into something bigger in the attempt to create a bandwagon effect:

“This historic vote was heard ’round the world,” stated Kenneth L. Lay, chairman of Enron Corp. “Although much work remains before we have new law, HR 2454 signals a new commitment toward clean, green energy, of which Enron is the acknowledged world leader. All of us look forward to working with lawmakers and citizens in this new era of global climate protection.”

Perhaps Al Gore himself would have placed a call to Ken Lay to congratulate the company that did to much so spark the CO2 reduction debate within the industry in the 1980s and 1990s. Indeed, the U.S. Climate Action Partnership (US CAP), a bootleggers-and-Baptists coalition that had much to do with the opening draft of Waxman-Markey, probably had more to do with Ken Lay protégé James Rogers (now chairman of Duke Energy) than any other single person.

Reprinted below, verbatim, is the infamous Enron Kyoto Memo, the original copy of which is posted here.

masterresource.org...

www.politicalcapitalism.org...

Terry Thorn, Joe Hillings, Cynthia Sandherr, Jeff Keeler, Fiona Grant, Hap Boyd, Bill Shoff, Dan Badger, Tom Kearney, Lynda Clemmons, Bruce Stram, Mike Terraso, Rob Bradley, Jim O’Neill, John Hardy

Implications

If implemented, this agreement will do more to promote Enron’s business than will almost any other regulatory initiative outside of restructuring of the energy and natural gas industries in Europe and the United States. The potential to add incremental gas sales, and additional demand for renewable technology is enormous. In addition, a carbon emissions trading system will be developed. While the trading system will be implemented by 2008, I am sure that reductions will begin to trade with 1-2 years. Finally, Enron has immediate business opportunities which derive directly from this agreement.

[edit on 093131p://bWednesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

It's all about Copenhagen now. We have just about a week to go. Call Senators, write to newspapers, there isn't allot of time and the MSM will not tell the people so it's up to people like us.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by Jordan River

 

You didn't answer any of my questions. Explain the link between increase of 12C/13C ratio in atmospheric CO2 and pole shift. Then we'll talk more..

I said the atmosphere is thinning. ozone thinnig due to pole shift. just an idea. no source. Gotta think outside of the box. pole shift is a slow process. think about that. Lets say the atmosphere is shifting. If it is that would create atmospherical friction. Anything that shifts creates friction. Perhaps thinning out the ozone.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Jordan River]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Um, it is a hoax if it's not proven and yet it is claimed it is.

The real data seems to indicate some cooling not warming last few years, likely due in part to the lack of sunspots/reduced solar wind.
(less wind, more cosmic particles,more clouds)
In this same time frame we have not seriously reduced CO2 added to atmosphere by humans. I think that pretty well covers it.

There maybe climate change but humans aren't doing it, and if its getting warmer or colder is open to question.

Yup, man made GW is/was a hoax.

Regarding the OP, we could equally label all anti climate change folks as hoaxers (the ATS crowd) because the Bush admin falsified and edited the studies which he had called for, and which supported global warming. It works both ways folks. People will distort facts to hammer home their agenda (and carelessness for the environment is obviously the agenda for 95% of the ATS crowd).

Hey. My votes going into the hoax bin. What were seeing is just the Earth going through a natural cycle. As for the melting ice caps, wasn't reported of volcanic activity at one of our polar regins? The lack of sun spots are also effecting us as well.

Originally posted by Chett
The real data seems to indicate some cooling not warming last few years, likely due in part to the lack of sunspots/reduced solar wind.
(less wind, more cosmic particles,more clouds)
In this same time frame we have not seriously reduced CO2 added to atmosphere by humans. I think that pretty well covers it.

There maybe climate change but humans aren't doing it, and if its getting warmer or colder is open to question.

Yup, man made GW is/was a hoax.

The real data indicates warming, not cooling. Every year in this decade is in the TOP 15 of warmest years (since 1850) on record.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

I would say that while labeling it in the HOAX catagory might be a little going to far per say, I agree that creating a "Global Warming Theory" section is more appropiate. Eeven though I personally feel it's only a tactic used by those with other agendas, I feel this would be better than simply labeling it as a Hoax in it's entirety.

I don't know why anyone believed in "global warming" in the first place. Every year they'd come out with some new "this is the end" headline. And every year we survived. Last year they were talking about our glaciers melting, and how warm our winter was going to be. Not even a week later we had a friggan blizzard...... A BLIZZARD. Not a couple of snowflakes, a full on, "can't see more than 20 feet in any direction" blizzard.

Before that, magazines ran front page headlines with extremely detailed articles based on "science", which stipulated that GIANT KILLER HURRICANES WERE GOING TO KILL US ALL.

Then we had the quietest hurricane season on record.

What a load of BS. And the people that support this fear spreading crap, are guilty of infecting the world with stupidity.

Honestly, how in the hell do people even think that there is such a thing as "Consensus" in science? This isn't a political compromise, it either is, or it isn't.

Global warming was is not just a load of crap, but it politicized Science. Humanity's most sacred institution got overrun by politicians. And all these useful idiots that support it are responsible for that. They cheered it on, gave them money, intimidated other people, and tried to enforce a way of life on everyone whether they wanted it or not. And all of it based on bad science, science that was hijacked by politicians. The same politicians that slaughter tens of thousands of people each year in war, that broker deal with oil companies, that authorize corporations to decimate ecosystems in third world nations. Those are the people environmentalists support.

Because global warming was never about the environment. It was about money, trillions of Dollars and Euros, it was about keeping the west on top, it was about keeping the third world and resource rich areas like Africa, on the bottom forever.

I agree with the OP, Label every single Climate change, or global warming thread a HOAX, it never was anything else.



[edit on 2-12-2009 by aravoth]

reply to post by endisnighe


Global Warming & radical climate change is indeed a fact. The hoax is how special interest say it is caused. They splice it with factual info + intention. That intention being how do we make $erpent money$ and manipulate the public to fix the problem that has occured for millions of years. "Hell since we can manipulate the weather" says the illumined wizards(rulers)...lets make it more an issue to make the dumb citizens believe it even more. (Hegel Dialect)

Al Gore pays $500 a month just to heat his indoor pool.
ooooops !!!!

Poor dark illumined wizards are running out of tricks it seems.

I guess I would create a more radical surveillance grid to watch the planet as well. We cant have too many brain dead folks waking up at once now can we.
they are only .01%
We are 99.9%
Id be scared to.

Shifting mans conciousness 1 slave at a time is the goal so that he may find just what a miraculous empowered being his heavenly father G-d has made him. Unconditional love, service to one another, real conscious contact, timeless, and fellowship with God.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by superluminal11]

It appears to be a hoax to me. I think it's a good idea to go back and note the threads as hoaxes.

Also, I would like to point out to "moocowman", "reasonable", and the other Christian or God bashers, you are basing your belief in science on rocky ground. Science is not pure fact and analysis, and cannot be trusted. This is a case in point www.foxnews.com...:s0:a4:g4:r3:c0.000000:b0:z5 and there will be others. Science picks and chooses it's facts to support their theories, and (ahem) discards what is contrary to their theories.

Trust God and the Bible.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
and while it is true that the data was manipulated (my organisation is one of the departments that had emails in this), it still doesnt mean that its a hoax.

Data Manipulation is Scientific Dishonesty.
Purposeful Dishonesty is Deciet.
Decietful Claims to attract attention is a Hoax.

Not sure what part of it isn't worthy of a hoax title.

It is fair to say that a hoax WAS purpetrated. Eh?

reply to post by TheRedneck

Find out how much CO2 concentration in the atmosphere and annual global mean temperatures correlate. You'll be surprised. Sure it's not how climate science is done (by pros since they don't assume linear dependency) but anyways see it for yourself. Hell do the math yourself and use only instrumental records for data. Use for example Person's r, shouldn't be to difficult for anyone with basic understanding of math to do..

[edit on 2-12-2009 by rhinoceros]

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Crooks are always out to make a buck.
Thats what they do. They rip people off.

Doesnt neccesarily mean global warming isnt happening though.....

The world's climate scientists are overwhelmingly in agreement that the current rise in the atmospheric greenhouse gas level is due to man's activities on the planet. You may be the type of person that refuses to trust any data coming from international bodies such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. If so, then believe the US National Academy of Science—the most prestigious scientific body in the United States—which concurs that human activities are the predominant factor in the current increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases and the resulting warming trend.

www.grinningplanet.com...
environment.nationalgeographic.com...

The Top 10 Global-Warming Facts

zfacts.com...

Considering we are the biggest polluter on the planet,
I am pretty sure we also be the point at which the
climate war would be waged.
And also therefore, the greatest source of disinformation and denial.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by dodadoom]

News from Copenhagen: Denmark rife with CO2 fraud

wattsupwiththat.com...

Scams in many countries are subject to investigation by authorities

Authorities in several countries investigate VAT tax fraud stemming from the Danish CO2 quota register

Denmark is the centre of a comprehensive tax scam involving CO2 quotas, in which the cheats exploit a so-called ‘VAT carrousel’, reports Ekstra Bladet newspaper.

Police and authorities in several European countries are investigating scams worth billions of kroner, which all originate in the Danish quota register. The CO2 quotas are traded in other EU countries.

Denmark’s quota register, which the Energy Agency within the Climate and Energy Ministry administers, is the largest in the world in terms of personal quota registrations. It is much easier to register here than in other countries, where it can take up to three months to be approved.

Ekstra Bladet reporters have found examples of people using false addresses and companies that are in liquidation, which haven’t been removed from the register.

One of the cases, which stems from the Danish register, involves fraud of more than 8 billion kroner. This case, in which nine people have been arrested, is being investigated in England.

The market for CO2 trade has exploded in recent years and is worth an estimated 675 billion kroner globally.

Full story here

www.cphpost.dk...

WOW what people wont do for a few billion.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

Find out how much CO2 concentration in the atmosphere and annual global mean temperatures correlate. You'll be surprised. Sure it's not how climate science is do (by pros) but after seeing the correlation one cannot doubt that CO2 doesn't have a big impact..

And why it isn't done by (honest) climate scientists is because it isn't scientific to infer that correlation implies causation.

reply to post by dodadoom


Hi doda,

Who do you trust, I can also dig up tons of scientific data proving the opposite,

We shall see.