Swiss voters favour minaret ban: exit polls

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

The strength of DEMOCRACY is in Majority rule not support of minorities

Used indiscriminately, what you are talking about would just amount to mob rule.

It makes sense for majority rule amongst a group of people with a common interest or stake in a matter. People should not be voting on matters that do not concern them.

Americans do not get a vote on matters that pertain to Canada, because its not your business. If you did, your majority numbers would outweigh Canadian numbers. It would be unfair.

Similarly, within countries, it is stupid to have the entire country vote on matters that only involve a small portion of the population. It should be up to Muslims to decide what their places of prayer should look like. What business is it of any non-Muslim? If there are noise and height restrictions on buildings then they should apply to every building; not just those of a particular religion.

What you are talking about is not democracy, it is mob rule.

Maybe you should study democracy a little more because you aren't understanding the concept. An idea goes to a vote, the vote is legal. This is based on utilitarian concept. In Switzerland it is the business of non-muslims to decide on muslim issues. Sorry to have to inform you. Muslims do not rule the world... they are trying but that isn't likely to happen. Especially with backward concepts and un-utilitarian principle.

www.thelondondailynews.com...
"75% support for the ban on minarets in London Daily News poll

Londoners support the Swiss government’s decision to ban minarets and mosques according to a new poll in The London Daily News, further highlighting the "sensitivities" and concerns in the capital at the growing influence of Islam.

Callers to London's leading early morning radio show, the Nick Ferrari programme on LBC, also expressed their concerns with one caller citing how "out of character" a minaret would be if built in London.

London is the home to one of the largest number of mosques in the western world,apart from Turkey, with estimates putting the number at over one hundred. The "minaret" issue has become ever more controversial with the growth of Islamic extremism in the capital, and calls by a minority for Sharia law to be observed by all."

When were the Swiss asked if they wanted 400,000 muslims *if we even take that figure as true, as with most "official" estimates, the true figure would probably be much higher* suddenly dwelling within their borders- which Islamic country should we look to for encouragement, were the Swiss not "enriched" by their own existence, did they not have a relatively safe, stable, democracy and were so bereft that they required 400,000 Muslims to enrich their lives?

I think not, and they were never asked such questions, their traitorous elite allowed this situation to occur, and when finally asked they gave their opinion (and even that question was only on the aspect of minarets) look how the liberal apologists shriek about that)

[edit on 7-12-2009 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder
When were the Swiss asked if they wanted 400,000 muslims *if we even take that figure as true, as with most "official" estimates, the true figure would probably be much higher* suddenly dwelling within their borders- which Islamic country should we look to for encouragement, were the Swiss not "enriched" by their own existence, did they not have a relatively safe, stable, democracy and were so bereft that they required 400,000 Muslims to enrich their lives?

I think not, and they were never asked such questions, their traitorous elite allowed this situation to occur, and when finally asked they gave their opinion (and even that question was only on the aspect of minarets, look how the liberal apologists shriek about that)

I like that approach.
How are muslims enriching the lives of non-muslims?
Answer... not much.

Originally posted by JJay55
I like that approach.
How are muslims enriching the lives of non-muslims?
Answer... not much.

I won't argue with your assessment here. When I lived in Paris years ago, I did get to appreciate the variety of 'street' food and restaurant fare not yet seen in America. Every culture contributes something to the fabric. But some more than others.

The immigration patterns in developed Western Europe are easily understood. Social systems require a large active younger work force to be contributing to the retirement benefits of the aging one. Europeans on their own have had negative population growth for decades now. A replacement workforce willing to do unskilled, low paying, entry level labour has been in constant demand.

The Middle East and North Africa offered a ready supply of immigrants.
The rest is history.


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael
The Middle East and North Africa offered a ready supply of immigrants.

Hahahha. I would hardly call that a conttibution. Although they are considered "white" the religious culture that comes with the genes doesn't offer much except pain and suffering.

Hello ATS, - lots of reading, little posting.

after the 10 or so pages of this thread, it has come to my attention that a percentage of the community hopped into this discussion without the knowledge of what a minaret is, short of it being part of a religious building.

The minaret is a physical symbol of the existence and implementation of sharia law.

it hurts me inside to quote from the wiki but:

"Yet in modern English it often refers to an Islamic concept, the wide body of Islamic religious law[citation needed]. Used thus, it refers to the legal framework within which the public and private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Islamic principles of jurisprudence and for Muslims living outside the domain. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues."
en.wikipedia.org...

Be aware that the minaret is not just a symbol of their faith, but a sign that their code of law is in effect.

As much as it is wrong for one country to decide what you can and cant build in regards to your religious buildings, its wrong^3 for a group of immigrants to be enforcing their own countries religious laws in another countries democracy.

I live in canada, and honor killings by Muslim families are far from unheard of.

"The 16-year-old Mississauga girl died Monday after she was strangled in her Longhorn Trail home after quarrelling with family for months over her desire to shed the hijab, the traditional Muslim headscarf. Her father faces a murder charge. An older brother, accused of obstructing the police investigation, faces a bail hearing in Brampton today."

"On YouTube, at least 11 videos, viewed in total more than 16,000 times, have been posted. One website, somalinet.com, published a story on Parvez's death and included a poll about whether the father was justified in the alleged killing. As of last night, five of the 19 who responded agreed."

www.thestar.com...

the saddest thing for me is that this is not an example of an isolated incident.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

- my reason for posting and reregistration, so many were arguing for the sake of the argument, without knowing the reason behind the decision.

thank you for your time - Sl1kr

good post there friend- as far as I can see Switzerland is just about the most democratic country in Europe- i speak with a bit of shame as Brit, the cradle of so which shaped a democratic and liberal world, we have lost the plot somewhat

reply to post by sl1kr


Not quite true a number of prominent non religious buildings do have Miranets, in my home town we have one Royal palace and it has lots of miranets. which is of the Indo-Saracenic style.



It was created in a godless city for a sinner ;-) the Prince Regent (later King George IV), so the only call to prayers I guess would have been to have a drinkie ;-) Tho I'm double guessing that is not what people mean here :-)

Fair play to the Swiss tho for being honest enough to express their feelings of not being ready to accept mosques with miranets, or the indo-saracenic style of architecture..

Perhaps, if no one tries to bully the Swiss they might actually accept them one day, in the same way catholic churches were eventually accepted and built in my home town, which to be honest came a while after synagogues were built.

Originally posted by Swordbeast
This issue might be presented before the European court for human rights in Strassbourg, which could theoretically declare the initiative as void. Anyhow, we will see how this develops. The last word isn't spoken by far.

I didn't think Switzerland was a member of the EU, so how could they be hauled in front of the European Court?

reply to post by stumason


Well they have signed the EU HR convention and Giorgio Malinverni has been officiating as the Swiss judge at the European Court of Human Rights since 19 January 2007.

Not that I agree this is the right way to go, sinc ethis was a democratic vote.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


To violate a countries population, would make that a Police EU State, would it not? The population voted, So the EU are going to over-rule, so much for having democracy and tranparancey.

The EU can do nothing about this, what are they going to do, send some Brussell's beuraucrats in to make some ad hoc minarets

I also believe the Swiss have a high proportion of legally armed citizenry- much to admire about that beautiful country

The EU can do nothing about this, what are they going to do, send some Brussell's beuraucrats in to make some ad hoc minarets

I also believe the Swiss have a high proportion of legally armed citizenry- much to admire about that beautiful country

reply to post by thoughtsfull


The EU convention on Human Rights does not have any bearing on this. It is not a Human Right to be able to build what you like, where you like. This referendum aside, there are bog standard planning codes to follow.

Not pointing fingers at you, but it really irks me when people don't get their own way, the cry "What about Human rights?"..

Well, what about other peoples rights too?

EDIT: For balance, I'd support the banning of building Churches and ringing of Church bells too. In fact, I'd ban religion, it's pointless and an utter lie.

I have to put up with bloody Church bells not only a Sunday and any other events they have during the week, but also a Tuesday evening when they "practice" (how much practice do they need?) which interferes with my Star Gate: Universe watching.

[edit on 11/12/09 by stumason]

Sorry if you have seen this article already:
Swiss businessman builds minaret in protest (AFP)

apparently he did it in "peace", clearly not, he is antagonising most Swiss and flouting their laws- wonder does he have a lot of Muslim customers.....................

The backlash has begun.

And it's long over due.

Why do muslims think they are above the laws of countries that are not Islamic?

Originally posted by JJay55
Why do muslims think they are above the laws of countries that are not Islamic?

well Jay55, imho, because islam has not undergone a reformation, and is therefore still teaching morals and values that were relevant 2000 years ago, they never bothered to try and put the section about "kill the infidels" into the memory hole.

so you get quotes like these gems of peace and love.

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

and

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

...or

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."

And when you have an entire society of many generations raised on these ideals, they may have obtained a bit of a superiority complex on their way out into the world.

prophetofdoom.net...