77 = No Hijack, Flight Deck Door Closed for Entire Flight

Originally posted by impressme
”SCREAMING” that your opinion are true, for God sakes, show us some proof, that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Where is your proof? These are your assumptions nothing more.

Maybe this will help. Here is 42 hours worth of data for the FLT DECK DOOR. It is sampled once every 4 seconds. Have fun trying to find one case of the door being open.

FLT DECK DOOR Parameter - 12 flights

It is a csv file and should open in notepad, Excel and even in your browser.

reply to post by 911files

Surly the door sensor/solenoids is linked through the mainframe computer ?
OPMRS (on plane monitoring recording system) Giving an audible warning and/or a visual warning on the pilots display panel,(PMS ?) using a reset type of procedure, Which in turn will be recorded on the planes computer, Using various relays, Not just the one as the system will be linked to other systems.....




[edit on 29-11-2009 by foxhoundone]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by foxhoundone]

reply to post by foxhoundone


Could not tell you. All I can tell you is that according to this parameter, the door was never opened in 42 hours of operation.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by 911files]

For anyone who needs documentation that the FDR system was updated due to a change in regulation in 1997, a regulation which also caused the revision to the data frame layout provided by Turbofan, please see here.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

n late 1997 the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) adopted a change requiring an increase in the number of recorded signals for flight data recorders (FDR). This rule change will affect many airplanes that operate under FAA rules, including all airplanes registered in the United States and those in other countries where regulatory authorities use the FAA rules as their own. Boeing is prepared to help operators meet the requirements of the rule change by its effective date, which varies according to each airplane's date of manufacture.



Boeing models 707, 727, 737-100/-200/-300/-400/-500, 757, 767, 747-100/-200/-300/-400, 777-200/-300, DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, and MD-90 will require retrofit activity. This may involve the addition of new sensors and wiring plus installation of a DFDAU, software, or both because of a new FDR frame. The details of the Boeing plan to support the airplanes listed below are discussed in "Rule Change Support Plan".

For those who would like to see the previous 11 flights, all of which were relatively short legs according to Warren, being discussed by real pilots who are verified, please see here.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

For those who claim the cockpit door sensor was not required equipment (ie. a "no-go" item on the 757), please see apathoid/767Doctor reply here.

forums.randi.org...

...a bad cockpit door switch, even pre-9/11, was likely a "no-go" item for flight. Its sole purpose is NOT to provide a record for the FDR, its to warn the pilots if the door is ajar by providing an amber message on the engine display.

For those who claim FLT DECK DOOR was an available parameter on the FDR, but not sensing anything, Please see Turbofan's post here,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If the parameter port were grounded due to inoperative system. it would not be labeled as FLT DECK DOOR. It would be labeled as "spare" and we wouldn't even be able to see it as observed in the UA93 data (there is no FLT DECK DOOR parameter on UA93).


This one post takes care of every single excuse made by those who wish to hold onto their support of the govt story.

Jumping in late...but you can cheat an interlock that feed backs to possibly a memory controller PWB and/or logic controller PWB.

Take for instance your basic everyday microwave. There is an interlock on the door of it that does not allow you to operate it while the door is open.

Now based on late night ramblings and understanding of many cheated interlocks I have dealt with while working on electronics to defeat 'logging' systems and making it think that it is receiving a 'closed' door status, it could be very well that because pilots used to roam their aircraft during flights, they didn't want logs of them being sent to the FAA and their airlines being dinged for leaving the cockpit too much.

Too many variables in this one to say its a smoking gun I say.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Just to clarify:

If the door latch was broken, or the switch sensing the door 'CLOSED' position was faulty, the signal would default to a logic '1' and the FDR would
show "OPEN" all the way through the flight. This is due to the "pull up resistor" built into the electric circuit connected to the power source.

Because the ground signal is only presented when the switch/door is shut, it is a strong case to show the sensor was functional.

You could argue that it would appear most suspicious to see the field parameter reading OPEN for all flights and never change as this
would be out of practice for pilots in flight.

As Mr. Balsamo stated earlier, it's very common and logical to accept the fact that pilots do not leave the flight deck during short
flights, and therefore a constant CLOSED value is what we would expect to see.

Summary:

If the switch was BROKEN...the FDR would record OPEN for all flight data.

The switch/circuit appears to be working fine as pilots normally do NOT
leave the flight deck for short flights. The longest recorded flight on the
FDR as confirmed by P4T and Warren Stutt was ~4.5 hours.

Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

As Mr. Balsamo stated earlier, it's very common and logical to accept the fact that pilots do not leave the flight deck during short
flights, and therefore a constant CLOSED value is what we would expect to see.

I wouldn't call 4.5 hrs a particularly short flight and I think it is quite unreasonable to expect anyone to believe the door was never opened in 42 hrs of flight. Even if the flight crew don't stir much I have never been on a flight where the cabin crew don't appear to be going into the cockpit on a pretty frequent basis. Did no-one on the flight deck want a cup of coffee in 42 hrs ?

What was the status of the cockpit door according to the 3 other hijacked flights on 9/11. Do we have any FDR's that show opening and closing of the cockpit door as one would expect if hijackers were storming the cockpit?

Also, was the Cockpit Voice recorder for flight 77 ever recovered? I know the one from flight 93 was, as I've heard portions of it, or recreations of it (forget which, as I just watched that made for TV movie about flight 93, what poor taste makeing that film was.)

But a voice recorder from the cockpit of flight 77 might help if the plane was hijacked remotely. Well I'm sure if it was remotely hijacked, they'd never let the cockpit voice recorder out to the public.

But I'm interested in the FDR's cockpit door status of the other 3 flights on 9/11. Surely those would show alot of opening and closing of the door to the flight deck.

Alfie, to say that "no one went through the cockpit in 42 hours" is misleading, as this was not one flight of 42 hours duration.

First of all, FDR's are 25 hour minimum recording. To record almost double the amount of hours (duration) while recording more than 4 times the required minimum parameters seems a stretch. Has anyone yet verified the decode from Warren? Or do you just take his word for it since some of it may support your incredulity for the govt story.

With that said, lets assume 42 hours is valid.

42 - 1.4 (AA77 flight) = 40.6

40.6 - 4.5 (longest flight according to Warren) = 36.1

10 flights/36.1 = 3.61 average.

Time to climb? lets say 15 mins.

Time for arrival? lets say 25 mins.

3.6 - .7 = 2.9

(the above doesn't include ground delays which would be recorded in the FDR, subtract another .6-.9 for ground taxi and you end up with 2 hours per flight "idle time". Barely enough time to look for porn hidden in the cockpit )

Bring food, hit the bathroom before boarding as every pilot is trained to do from day one in his single engine days (sort of like Pavlov's dog, knowing you're getting ready to fly creates an almost automatic response to hit the bathroom prior to flight).

Can you go 2.0-2.9 hours hours without hitting the john? I sure can. I do it everyday.

Can you go 4.5 hours without a piss break? I sure can, I do it everyday.

Many single and twin engine aircraft which airline pilots used to train on have a 6 hour duration, with no bathroom on board.

Bottom line, the only way the FDR can record Logic 0 for the FLT DECK DOOR parameter, is if the door was closed.

You're better off attempting to push the theory that the "hijackers" walked through the door in between the 4 seconds poll time, subdued the crew, then removed them from the cockpit within another 4 seconds. Although, I don't think many will buy it.

The next and perhaps very last excuse you can possibly use, is that the data provided by Warren, verified by P4T for the last flight, is somehow fake, wrong, inaccurate. etc...

Good luck!

[edit on 29-11-2009 by R_Mackey]

reply to post by R_Mackey


You have addressed how long pilots can last without going to the bathroom but can you honestly say that pre-911 it is likely that in a total of 42 hrs of flying no flight attendants entered the flight deck ? Would that be normal ?

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by R_Mackey

 

You have addressed how long pilots can last without going to the bathroom but can you honestly say that pre-911 it is likely that in a total of 42 hrs of flying no flight attendants entered the flight deck ? Would that be normal ?

That would be speculation Alfie. I leave that up to those who make excuse for the govt story.

I have proven that it is very possible for the pilots to stay in their seats for 11 flights. Keep in mind, crews change and FA's also have an intercom system to "check-in" with the pilots. The door doesn't need to be open to "check-in".

The data says the door was closed. It's cut and dry. Do what you will with it based on your beliefs I suppose.

Originally posted by R_Mackey

For those who claim the cockpit door sensor was not required equipment (ie. a "no-go" item on the 757), please see apathoid/767Doctor reply here.

forums.randi.org...

...a bad cockpit door switch, even pre-9/11, was likely a "no-go" item for flight. Its sole purpose is NOT to provide a record for the FDR, its to warn the pilots if the door is ajar by providing an amber message on the engine display.

Why not post the rest of the statement from that source? Did you even finish reading it?

I don't feel digging through manuals, but I'll just say that the functionality just likely wasn't there for that parameter - there are many parameters in Warrens RO that produce no change of binary states or produce any data. The FDAU(box that collects all the data and streams it to the FDR) has the capability to collects hundreds, even thousands of parameters in new versions; the FAA mandates 70, I believe. Its up to the airlines if they want to record other params. The vast majority are just open, not wired to the systems that they are supposed to record. This one just happens to support Balsawood Bobs newest snakeoil scheme.

Theres a difference between someone actually looking for the truth, and someone looking simply taking an out of context quote and using it to stir up controversy.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Donner]

Originally posted by R_Mackey

That would be speculation Alfie. I leave that up to those who make excuse for the govt story.

Aren't you speculating in regards to the pilot's bathroom habits?

Originally posted by abefrohman
Come on guys.

Everyone seems to agree that the plane didn't hit the Pentagon... and the Government is covering it up.

Yet somehow you all think it's reasonable to trust data released by the government from a data recorder from the plane?

If the data the govt. releases supporting the terrorist explanation is not valid, then the data they release supporting anything else is not valid.

I'll listen to anything in the way of eyewitness testimony and physical evidence that refutes the terrorist story... but when we start using information that was released by the same people who are lying to us just because it supports what we want to believe... that's when I get off the bus.

Look at it this way.

If it was a helicopter... the data is fake.
If it was a missile... the data is fake.
If the flight was unmanned... the data is fake.

Only if the flight was hijacked does it make any sense to trust any of this data, and it seems to me that nobody here thinks it was a hijacking.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by abefrohman]

The whole point of the FDR translation is that if ANY of the data is proven fraudulent there is only one possible conclusion:

The FDR is a fake = Inside job


Now with this latest revelation that the cockpit door was never opened
during the entire flight, a hijacking could not have occurred.

Given the increasing NOC testimony and zero evidence of SOC witness testimony, the lightpoles were staged. The trailer damage was staged.
A plane did not impact the Pentagon.

For the disinfobots already in full swing across the net, two ´counterarguments´ have already been thoroughly debunked.

1) The data block in the FDR was ´disconnected´ or ´floating´ is a non-runner.
It is explained in layman´s terms here:

pilotsfor911truth.org... c=18405&view=findpost&p=10779422

2) That Flight 77 was an ´older model´ which hadn´t got
the cockpit door parameters installed, check this guy´s posts
and links out:

pilotsfor911truth.org... 5&view=findpost&p=10779507

This information is going viral and Pilotsfor911Truth are currently
experiencing a record number of pilots and aviation professionals enquiring about joining their ranks.

pilotsfor911truth.org... 5&view=findpost&p=10779537

Please go and read the thread in its entirity.

pilotsfor911truth.org... 5&view=findpost&p=10779354

Originally posted by 911files

Originally posted by impressme
”SCREAMING” that your opinion are true, for God sakes, show us some proof, that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Where is your proof? These are your assumptions nothing more.

Maybe this will help. Here is 42 hours worth of data for the FLT DECK DOOR. It is sampled once every 4 seconds. Have fun trying to find one case of the door being open.

FLT DECK DOOR Parameter - 12 flights

It is a csv file and should open in notepad, Excel and even in your browser.

congratulations mockingbird!!!

you've proven that on 11 consecutive flights (most relatively short) that these planes weren't hijacked either!!!!



oh yeah and the pilots went to the bathroom before lift off.

so you proven that flight 77 wasn't hijacked just like 11 previous flights weren't hijacked.

guess its time for you to crawl back into randi's sewer for a bit......

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by 911files

Originally posted by impressme
”SCREAMING” that your opinion are true, for God sakes, show us some proof, that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Where is your proof? These are your assumptions nothing more.

Maybe this will help. Here is 42 hours worth of data for the FLT DECK DOOR. It is sampled once every 4 seconds. Have fun trying to find one case of the door being open.

FLT DECK DOOR Parameter - 12 flights



It is a csv file and should open in notepad, Excel and even in your browser.

congratulations mockingbird!!!

you've proven that on 11 consecutive flights (most relatively short) that these planes weren't hijacked either!!!!

oh yeah and the pilots went to the bathroom before lift off.

so you proven that flight 77 wasn't hijacked just like 11 previous flights weren't hijacked.

guess its time for you to crawl back into randi's sewer for a bit......

So you seriously think that the parameter was being faithfully recorded and that absolutely no-one, flight crew or cabin crew, went into or out of the cockpit in 42 hours of flying ?

When the alleged data, in this case lack of data, points to a ludicrously improbable conclusion is it not sensible to examine it carefully ? The other night my car speedometer was registering 0 on my way home. However, as I was still patently moving I rejected that data and got the speedo fixed.

Originally posted by Alfie1
The other night my car speedometer was registering 0 on my way home. However, as I was still patently moving I rejected that data and got the speedo fixed.

As would happen much quicker on a jet carrying paying passengers, as suggested by apathoid here...

I fix electricky stuff on big planes for a living. Trust me, there was nothing wrong with the door switch(its not a sensor). If the door switch was stuck, maintenance would have fixed it in the prior 12 flights..

Source

It's fun to watch those who make excuse for the govt story contradict their own.

Could this be the final nail in their coffin? "Viral" time will tell.

Regardless, we're all seeking the truth here, right? On both sides. Truth always comes out in the end.