I May Be Spending Christmas In Jail

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
I'm just wondering why you haven't gotten custody of your daughter if her mother is not acting in the best interests of your daughter. Child support payments are only paid when your ex has custody right? From what you've told us, it would seem that it would be a rather easy thing to do. Although, it may be a little late to begin this to save you from being foreclosed on, seems like you would have done this before now - if we're hearing the whole story. I'm not saying you're hiding something nefarious, I'm just saying that the story you've presented is very one sided (I'm also not taking up for your ex either).

Seems an alcoholic mother would certainly apply.

reply to post by jtma508


First I'd like to say to you you are a stand up dad and I applaud you. This seems to be a very scary trend in the CS courts, as I and my hubby are having the same issues with these kind of CS arrears as well as many other friends of mine more recently, yet some dead beats are not even being and never had been accountable mostly because they had the means to pay, but have an army of lawyers.It seems to be trendy to pick on stand up people instead of the lowlife scumbags that would let their children starve! I understand your predicament. It's so sad this country is tearing others apart just because of some bum, lazy, fat women!!!!! If I were you I'd sell the house, at least put it up for sale, pay the arrears, get an under the table job, and tell your ex to F * off. It'd be nice if you could also go for custody by proving she's unfit as well...just my evil genius at work here.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by ldyserenity]

Female here,(figured that was important) and I'll tell you the family court s a conspiracy unto to its self.They are as evil and corrupt as it gets. Its not fair or even reasonable.
As far as every one telling you to go for custody. I wouldn't go for full custody for the sake of the children and the hell it puts them through but I would go for joint.
Here is a great site to help you get started, they have great legal advise and lots of good info.A kids right to both parents

Originally posted by jtma508
I appreciate everyone's support and will answer a few comments without citing the poster:

Forgetting my kids and moving away is not even remotely an option. Obviously posted by a non-parent. You don't just kick your kids to the curcb. It's not their fault. I love my kids.

Yes, I had to go into court pro se (on my own). If I didn't have the money to pay my bills/mortgage I certianly couldn't cough-up the $2k-$3k retainer for an attorney. I consulted an attorney ($250 for an hour) just the other day. Even she told me that if I walk into court with an attorney the judge is going to ask how much I was paying her and if I could pay an attorney I could pay my ex. This from a lawyer. Even she said I'm screwed.

Keep in mind, I'm 57yo. This isn't some new situation. This has been going on for over 17yrs. My ex is an alcoholic, bitter, cold, ugly person. But above all else she is the ultiate materialist and a saprophyte. It's all about the money to her. It always has been.

Our original divorce decree/support order only said we each (mother and father) were required to put $250/yr into a college account. That's it. She refuses to release that money to the kids however.

The judge is fiully aware of my financial situation. He knows we're in foreclosure and he knows what I paid for college. He would not, however, allow me to tell him about my ex's work history and did not require that she submit a financial statement although naturally I was required to submit one.

I have been over our state's support guidelines (we're one of the worst in the country). It clearly states that 'both parents bear an equal financial resposibility to support the children'. It also states that 'child support shall not be disguised alimony'. It goes on to say that 'payments-in-kind should be considered as child support'. The attorney I consulted told me that although that last point is true, it would only be considered if you consulted the court BEFORE you made the payment and it gave its blessing. The first two points are entirely ignored by the court.

My ex is a control freak and whenever my daughter would do something to piss her off (or when she had her drunk on) she'd take things away during her rampages. In the early days it was the cellphone and computer so my daughter couldn't contact me. So I got her a cellphone since it was unsafe for her to be away at school without a phone. My ex loaned her money to buy a car so she can work while at school. So now she threatens the car. My daughter is working over 22hrs a week while a fulltime college student in order to pay her mother for the car insurance and car.

Over the last couple of years my ex and her husband have repeatedly told my daughter to move out (always during their drunken rampages). My daughter knows she is alwzys welcome here. The only thing that hjas prevented it is her school. I'm in a different state so she'd lose her in-state discount. With my situation being so tenusous regarding the house the judge may not even let her move here. However, my daughter wants to emancipate and we're investigating that. But it won't help with the arrears.

To some of you, I know it SEEMS like the judge would have to consider all these things but --- as I've said --- I've been in this system for over 17yrs. They don't. The mothers can say whatever they want and are rarely required to provide proof. Their financial situation is never checked as to whether they are working to their reasonable potential and there is no accountability as to where the money goes. My ex has been remarried since our divorce was final an he makes decent money. They have a very upscale lifestyle living in the horse farm they built. But his income is not considered. My wife's income, however, is up for grabs as far as the court is concerned. My wife loves my kids but can you imagine how this makes her feel? Can you appreciate the damage it is doing to my marriage?

As my kids came into adulthood they became aware of what I was paying their mother. So when they needed something (like a car for work or paying for college) and their mother refused they would ask where all the money went. The most common answer they got was that it went to pay the mortgage. Child support, according the IRS, is the children's money. Which is why the recipient parent doesn't have to claim it or pay taxes on it. Both my kids have worked since they were in high school and have mostly paid for their own clothes and expenses. Sure, there has been food and their share of utilities, etc. So the rest of the $26k/year went against the mortgage. The kids have paid the mortgage. Wanna hear the kicker? The deed/title to the house is held with 'survivorship'. What that means is that if an asteroid were to land on my ex and squish her like a bug (God forbid), the property in its entirety would go to my ex's husband. Kids get zilch.

Again, thankyou everyone for your words of support. The fact is, howver, that I am screwed. I screwed myself by getting into the catch-22 of not having money for an attorney when one was needed most. I will reach ut to the news media when all this goes down. I'm sure the judge will make sure that I pay dearly for that move but as I see it at least I'll have a place to live.

My father paid thousands on an attorney and got out of ALLLLL his CS arrears so the lawyer is the wrong one for you plus she's female nuff said. SHe's a d********. DOn't listen I lived it my father had tons tons of money and got out of paying for my schooling and half of the back s&&&& he owed! I'm assuming if you do live in the northeast you must be in NEW JERSEY, they're notorious for this retarded behavior!

[edit on 22-11-2009 by ldyserenity]

Man this sucks bad. It pains to hear about situations like this. Someone does the right thing and gets screwed for it. The entire family court system needs to be scrapped and restarted with a new approach to child support and fathers rights.

If you do nothing else, contact a Fathers Rights advocacy group as others have said. They are out there and they will help. They have learned many lessons from battles and will be able to provide you with some tools to maybe save yourself this grief for going on much longer.

Don't wait.

Look them up and call them Monday morning.

www.google.ca...:en-GBfficial&client=firefox-a

A list of them is right there. Find one that is close to you or call/write everyone of them. They may even be able to provide a lawyer for you.

I'd say this belongs in "Global Meltdown". Although it is only one facet of this wrecked country and the dissolving of our financial stability.

Might I add, I've been in this same meat grinder. And still am even after my daughter turned 18. It is one of many though.

Words can't even begin to tell of the injustices. She (my ex) went to school but never made any money either so I had the child support, the medical bills, you name it. But this isn't so much a story to me about the famous "ex" raping and pillaging you financially. This is about the whoredom of a people who "expect" something for nothing and a society fixated on casual judgment. And children don't need to be held up on a pedestal simply for being born. They should at least have to prove themselves worthy of some consideration. People used to have kids for extra workers and the best got the largest portion of land.

I grew up in an abusive (bad) family. When I was 13 I was made to go get a 40 hour a week job. One of which was pizza hut. The boss came in one day with a odd look on his face (had worked there two weeks) saying "Sorry, but were going to have to let you go. You're too young to be working here". My begging to keep the job didn't matter much. No matter how many times I said what would happen to me if I lost the job.

Bottom line was my father was less than a kind and considerate individual and unfortunately one day it occurred to him I could make money. Looking back through the years it is not lost on me that I was one of "those" children that was supposed to be saved by this system. I'm a connoisseur of life's ironies and I know beyond a doubt the system you are caught in has nothing to do with the welfare of the children. It is simply about moving the money.

I have been in father's groups, web sites, you name it. The father is not meant to win. Simple as that. When you split up now there are two households needing to be supported financially "we can't track how she spends the money Mr. Jones. If she spends it on rent or a car that is still supporting the child". Local governments get what amounts to kick backs for diligent enforcement of child support. This has NOTHING to do with the ex wife or the child. It has to do with financial slavery, backed by an unawares populace willing to pass judgment (and laws) on "deadbeat" dads. Because, it is almost always the man that makes the money. You burden the person that is going to try because you can keep throwing burden on them and they keep trying. And, you make examples of those that want off this merry go round.

On the child support front I have been told by judges that they didn't care if I lost my car and "have to drag yourself through broken glass to support your child". I have received letters from lawyers on my birthday, Christmas, Thanksgiving. My child, now in college, takes every free penny I have and my car that I drive has about 300,000 miles on it (it was bought new). My ex wife had used my charge card (maxed it out) and got the best lawyer in the area years ago. The list of pain is long and unpleasant.

Now believe it or not the greatest part of my anger is not directed at her. Hell, if I could get away from her she'd never have another thought of mine. Consider my father, I ran away at 17 and mostly didn't look back. He can't trouble me anymore. My dire unhappiness is directed at the ever worthless piece of meat that has no problem turning people into slaves because they can have no voice. That can enslave them because a convenient media will paint them as evil. That can enslave them because casual couch surfing potato heads eat "Ben and Jerry's" ice cream ranting their half assembled thoughts and encouraging "Judge Judy" to make fools of them all.

If you try in life there are oh so many people who will try to milk you dry so they don't have to do anything. Taxes, fees, television (buy worthless # and feel bad).

This is nothing other than slavery under a convenient title.

We need to stop empowering the wicked and base peoples. If you pass out rewards for these people we shall all end up being same or subject to them until we submit and become as they. Let people become conscious and responsible to themselves again.




Shall it be said that a good person burdens no one and carries out his life with due diligence. But the evil, they will burden your labors, your mind, your very soul if they can so that their efforts are few and your burdens are so great you have not time to witness the degree of their sin.

I'd go to jail

My 2 cents


sorry bub!

Good luck - praying for you

Sad story. I understand it perfectly because I pay child support and reallized it is tilted in favor of women.

It will never be changed because women have more votes.

It will change once men start to think with the head on their shoulders and stop falling for these pretty pouting spoiled princesses.

For all you young men out there. Marriage and having a child is a serious legal contract. Choose your wife like you would chose a business partner, very carefully. One wrong choice in this area could cost you a lifetime of heartache and poverty.

I speak from experience. I only get to see my one and only grand daughter every few months. She is eight and still cries when she has to leave us.

My grand daughter asked me recently, "Grandma, why did you marry Grandpa?"

I replied, "Because he is gentle, intellegent and kind".

Lexie than replied, "What about his pretty blue eyes grandma?"

I said, "Yes and his pretty blue eyes too!".

Looks are so not important. The soul, the actual innerness of someone is what is important. You can always go to a plastic surgeon so looks are adjustable, personalities are not. Repeat that last sentence, let it soak in.

I suggest living with someone for several years and being careful not to drag a child into the mix until you both are sure the arrangement is going to work out.

Once a child is dragged into the mix - if the marriage isn't working out, that child is going to have to handle all the poop the world has to offer without the back up of a stable family life.

My oldest son who is now 32 recently said to me he was not aware of how blessed he was to have a mom and dad that truely still love each other and how stable (and boring) his family life with us was growing up. He is now only just realizing how important making a good choice to carry on your genes (and that is what you are doing) is.

Looks as stated before can be "fixed". Personalities can't.

Look for a person that is kind, intellegent, wise, honorable (does not lie, cheat, steal, over excess, etc) and doesn't have to have everything their way, they are a person willing to compromise. Living with someone that is willing to "work things out" is very important.

We don't stress these "virtues" any more. Our tv shows show our youth, "Bridezilla" and "America's Next Top Model" and the one with Paris Hilton (can't think of the name) where she picks her very best friends. God, most of these reality shows for our youth suck big time. They are spoiled and superficial. Cotton candy for the brain.

Men need to wise up. The pretty princesses are usually (not always) very spoiled and mean. I'm not saying to marry a bow wow, but look beyond the flowing hair, turned up Barbie nose and 110 pound body.

There is an old expression that was used in Forest Gump, "Pretty is as pretty does" which means judge a person for their actions and not their looks.

reply to post by jtma508

Over this same time my ex, who graduated with honors and later went on to get a teaching certificate (which she has never used), reports that year after year she earns about $16k. In our state the first $20k doesn’t count on the mother’s side. Financial documents came to light in late 2007 showing that she makes this $16k by working about 30hrs a month at $42.50/hr. That works out to about $88k if she worked fulltime.

Hopefully you won't be in jail, and I really sympathize with you. This statement however is ludicrous. The reality is, if she has a family, she is working full time, AND, doing the most important, the alpha job of the planet, that all other activities should serve by logic, AND, unless she is a super woman, able to be in two places at once, with abnormal human health and energy, the job she's doing is admirable. I don't think women were put on the planet to work round the clock and then kicked into the gutter if they are like 9/10, average human beings with far less energy. That is not the sentence I impose on peoples daughters.

Its about time that woman and families are actually honored for the hard work they are already doing, since the banking system, and corporate slavery system is an artifical creation, (natives lived naturally) and is SLAVERY, and only serves a small, very small, minority group, primarily compsed of men in the western world. It doesnt serve humanity, it doesnt serve 9/10ths of the world who live in abject poverty, disinfranchised from the natural inherant rights to the land and to be independent. It doesn't serve anyone but this tiny little group who pat themselves on the back and think they are so worthy of their social status, and that 9/10th of humanity is so incredibly flawed they deserve unending torment.

When courts don't take into account people circumstances and penalize men who are not earning huge incomes, or threaten jail time and deprive the children from their rights to their fathers, this is really unfair.

But this attitude so many have about women is also extremely chauvinistic, misinformed and the very reason our world is the way it is.

reply to post by jtma508


Support your child it will make u the better person u may lose your house but your giving your daughter the life she needs to succeed so we cant be greedy and think of our self. Im sorry if u do lose your home but im sure your daughter will love u forever if u help her theirs nothing in the world like a child's love.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by jtma508

 

Over this same time my ex, who graduated with honors and later went on to get a teaching certificate (which she has never used), reports that year after year she earns about $16k. In our state the first $20k doesn’t count on the mother’s side. Financial documents came to light in late 2007 showing that she makes this $16k by working about 30hrs a month at $42.50/hr. That works out to about $88k if she worked fulltime.

Hopefully you won't be in jail, and I really sympathize with you. This statement however is ludicrous. The reality is, if she has a family, she is working full time, AND, doing the most important, the alpha job of the planet, that all other activities should serve by logic, AND, unless she is a super woman, able to be in two places at once, with abnormal human health and energy, the job she's doing is admirable. I don't think women were put on the planet to work round the clock and then kicked into the gutter if they are like 9/10, average human beings with far less energy. That is not the sentence I impose on peoples daughters.

Its about time that woman and families are actually honored for the hard work they are already doing, since the banking system, and corporate slavery system is an artifical creation, (natives lived naturally) and is SLAVERY, and only serves a small, very small, minority group, primarily compsed of men in the western world. It doesnt serve humanity, it doesnt serve 9/10ths of the world who live in abject poverty, disinfranchised from the natural inherant rights to the land and to be independent. It doesn't serve anyone but this tiny little group who pat themselves on the back and think they are so worthy of their social status, and that 9/10th of humanity is so incredibly flawed they deserve unending torment.

When courts don't take into account people circumstances and penalize men who are not earning huge incomes, or threaten jail time and deprive the children from their rights to their fathers, this is really unfair.

But this attitude so many have about women is also extremely chauvinistic, misinformed and the very reason our world is the way it is.

First of all 30 hours a month is hardly full time at all even in the most diluted minds...full time is 30-40 hrs WEEKLY. I did it as a mother and had a Hubby working OUT of state for a year plus so, in essense I was a single mother, In that all household things I handled, cleaning, cooking, raising the kids and working 30 hours weekly, and I am sure any NORMAL functioning adult woman should be able to do that much.especially I might add one with a degree(which I do not have) And I guess you missed the part where he said she's a drunk, she shouldn't even be allowed to raise her children if this is in fact how she lives her life. I know I have dealt with the ex with kids who was a pothead, she should've been stripped of her rights as she is a worthless human being period, as well as his wife sounds like to me....UNFIT! Besides if she is a teacher she works while the children are in school and this is why it's ludicrous for her to only do part time, when she had no excuses, she didn't need a sitter as she gets all the same hours and holidays as her children would have...cop out. This is why our country fails.

Under the sad but true heading, in some states, even if you choose jail because you can't pay all the support the court tells you, you still owe the money after you get out of jail. The ruling never goes away. It's a pay now or pay later, but you will pay--thing.

To top all of it off, sometimes, the kids are ungratefull, and talk crap about their bilogical dad, even as he pays ontime. Sometimes, there is just no justice in the world.

reply to post by TXTriker


My husband and I spent $12,000 / Jeffery Levine, author of "Father's Rights" based in Chicago and my son still got screwed over.

In 80% of divorces the woman gets the child and if she plays games (let's alienate daddy and his parents) the court looks the other way.

A court will not even talk to the child to see what is going on.

I offered another couple thousand to have our grand daughter seen by a "professional court appointed therapist" to no avail.

The courts at least in Illinois do not care.

The "child" is property of the "mother" and if she has slept with four, five or six men in the past couple of years (which the child is aware of) that's fine.

If she calls your son's new girlfriend and harasses her, that's okay too. She is also allowed to bad mouth her father and his parents.

Our laws were set up to protect women when men were really more brutist. But now, times have changed, many (not all) women take advantage of the legal system and know how to really work it to their advantage.

What they don't realize or care is that using their child as a pawn to "get at the ex" is detrimental to the child - but there again the courts could care less.

End result, really screwed up adults.........but hey your good tax money at work right.

My son raised our grand daughter when she was an infant up until she turned 2 and mom ran off with her.

My ex daughter in law spent three nights a week getting a paralegal degree (my son paid for) and two nights a week kariokeeing at bars.

My son was the one changing diapers (Stacy would gag if the diaper was number 2).

Grandparent rights, don't get me started - a complete joke.

Yes there are some bad "fathers" out there but my son played by the rules, did everything he was suppose to do and got screwed just the same.

Our judicial system when it comes to real human rights SUCK!

Joint custody, usually means you will be allowed into your child's life for 48 hours per month.

Forget report cards, school plays, even knowing where your child lives or being able to call her to wish her a happy birthday.

As in my previous post: If you are a young man, before you marry that sweet little "princess" be very cautious. Once you are married and the little princess has your baby you are on the hook and she will mostly call the shots. If she wants to cut you out of that baby's life, she will have the full force of the law behind her.

The last thing my grand daughter whispered to me (sniffling) before leaving us was, "Grandma, I wish I could live with you, my Papa and Grandpa forever".

There again looks are decieving. My son is a big 6 footer (200 pounds) and Stacy being 5 feet and 100 pounds with flowing blond hair gives the impression of being "helpless". (About as helpless as a puffer fish).

But, people see with their eyes and not their heart including the court.

fyi: When Stacy pulled out of our driveway I begged her to not make this into a fight. I told her I could write her a $1,500 check each month if she would not make this divorce a long drawn out battle.

But, Stacy loves to fight - her whole purpose in life is to stick it to my son by way of using their child just like her father before her did to her mother.

(She used the same lawyer her father used against her mother) and on it goes............the children are the ones our courts are allowing to be messed with.


[edit on 23-11-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by ldyserenity

When courts don't take into account people circumstances and penalize men who are not earning huge incomes, or threaten jail time and deprive the children from their rights to their fathers, this is really unfair.

Now, also consider the paternal grandparents as well who love and are a part of that baby.

I love my grand daughter, Alexis with all my being.

I miss being in her everyday life so much. We have a soul connection that runs so deep.

What these "mothers" don't realize is the DNA connection. That "baby" is just 50% of the "mom" the other 50% is the "father" and his line.

My grand daugher has said and thinks so much along my line of reasoning it is scary. I can now see the trail of genetics.

My sweet little grand daugher. My sweet Alexis.

My first wife was a pig on two feet (not 100 lbs) and my second wife is about 100 lbs and dependable, and decent. No absolute rules in picking a mate. Sometimes it's luck of the draw. You can even go with somebody who's family is stable and still loose. No guarantees.

I have yet to see the supposed bad father. The abusive brute. I have however seen many many devastated and bewildered men. At a loss concerning the justice of it all and facing a pure insanity of the crazy female dog (sorry, couldn't use the appropriate word).

This isn't about picking a bad mate. It's about unjust laws and unrealistic expectations. If the laws were not the way they are you wouldn't have people trying to rule over another. The problem is the people that empowered women to do this. Politicians get to move the money all while claiming to be doing something good. Yay for the well meaning politician..! Not.

I put this right in the lap of every swinging phallic member out there. Their apathy in full view of suffering people is beyond contempt. And then they pass out stupid self satisfying commentary about picking a good mate. Overlooking, and passing judgment, on every bit of suffering they see because they think themselves exempt.

#########

You don't deserve to go to jail man. You are not a horrid creature simply for having married the wrong person. Your ex wife, she wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't empowered to be so. Hell, if you were the one empowered you might very well do the same.

The problem is a group of illicit people and the sleeping masses willing to support them with indifference.

If it were within my power I'd make every devastated father feel like he could make a difference. I'd get them all together. And when your court date came up I'd come a million strong to scare justice into the justice system. You can't beg kindness into cruel rulers. You have to take it from them or be found ineffectual breathing lumps of flesh. For the love of god, if we had quietly petitioned the British for decency and obediently stayed behind ye ole time picket fence we'd still be whining like a bunch of colonial fags. Justice was hard fought once and will be again unfortunately.

Like I said, you don't deserve jail. Anybody with something that resembles a soul should know this. You don't deserve indifference and casual commentary about your suffering either. I know how you feel, I know your injustice. You have my support. If for no other reason, because it is the right thing to do.

My initial kneejerk responce included many well placed four letter words,a few personal opinions relating to the physical motivation challenges of many,many many,women in you ex's situation as well as a slew of agreements for other members statements...all of the usual stuff one would expect to read in a thread like this,

Of course my thoughts go out to to the OP for having to put up with a situation like this. I'm not sure who upsets me more, the Ex or the members telling the OP to go to jail...hey guys jail is horrible! So remember, it's easy to tell sombody to go there when faced with a choice between that and some other redicullous option like losing your home.

Im positive that if I continue in this thread,it would result in no fewer then a temporary post ban because this issue infuriates me. So with that said I'll wish the OP the best of luck and quietly follow this...good thing you can't hear me talk.

It could be worse.

They could be forcing you to pay someone who hasn't even had the child in over 6 months, like they are doing to me right now.

I refused to give them last month's payment on the grounds it was blatant fraud. Instead of investigating, they hijacked my pay. They won't even "allow" me to take them to court.

But I know what the "child support" system is really about, so it doesn't make me angry. I expect this behaviour.

But I feel sorry for you being threatened with prison. That would really help your kids, wouldn't it? It proves they don't care.

But that's what happens when those who control it engage in "Cremation of Care" ceremonies...

reply to post by Unity_99


reply to post by xenchan


You clearly haven't read the initial post. She is not raising a family. My kids are 23 and 19. One is out on his own the youngest is a fulltime student living at college. Even when they were younger there was very little 'raising of the family' on her part. She has a teaching certificate yet she could never find the time to check my oldest's homework so that he barely made it out of high school. Not that he isn't bright --- he is. But he was lazy and NO ONE was there to check that he was doing his work. What exactly does 'raising a family' mean? Isn't that part of it?

My kids have both worked since high school, have done their own laundry and been quite independent. Out of necessity. Re-read the OP.

My kids and I are as close as can be. They are most grateful for everything that I have done for them and turn to me whenever they need anything. Not necessarily money or material stuff but guidance, advice, support, etc. I have ALWAYS been the one they turn to. Their mother is useless in that regard. Selfish, self-absorbed and uncaring. But well compensated just the same.

Some of you need to usnderstand that this has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting the kids. They don't see a dime of this money and no longer live at home. Nor does their mother help with school.

reply to post by jtma508

The judge is fiully aware of my financial situation. He knows we're in foreclosure and he knows what I paid for college. He would not, however, allow me to tell him about my ex's work history and did not require that she submit a financial statement although naturally I was required to submit one.

Yes we have found the same thing where in my son had to submit a financial statement and he can't even get a phone number or address where his daughter is yet his ex wife didn't have to submit a financial statement and the courts won't do anything about her calling and harrassing my son's girlfriend and contacting her ex husband (stirring up trouble for trouble's sake).

Women for the most part have the full force of the legal system behind them, and many (not all) really abuse the system.

So many people out of work, many men - you can't squeeze blood out of rock. My son had a good job, and the day before Thanksgiving a year ago yesterday, they hauled in the top 15 money making workers and fired them.

He now works at a gas/quickie mart at minimum wage - during the late night early morning shift.

Many of our jobs have been either been given away to foreigners or "outsourced".

Men in this system, at this time are screwed - justice in America is a joke.



[edit on 28-11-2009 by ofhumandescent]