This is a conspiracy site isn't it? Then act like it people.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

I am growing tired of all of the threads that are being continually hammered by people who seek to derail every type of thread.

I agree. I've been seeing more and more of this lately and it's really starting to get on my nerves.

People seem to be posting rude and obnoxious comments for what? Jeez, if you don't like the topic, don't post in the thread! Unless you have something constructive to add.

I usually just try and skip over those posts.

This is a conspiracy site.

S&F.

Excellent words OP! I have been a long time reader, and just finally started to take a more active role in the ATS community. This is one thing that has bugged me for a while. The problem though, I do believe, Is that there are some disinfo and troll type people on here whos only purpose is divide and create animosity. I personally love to CONJECTURE on any topic, no matter how unrealistic it may seem currently. The universe is a Large place, and like columbus, we are still dealing with uncharted waters and GIANT SEADRAGONS!

To all you truth seekers- There is nothing wrong with starting from a uncertain premise and discussing the logical aftereffects of such said uncertain premises.
That is how science works. you test and discuss the unknown!

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

I am growing tired of all of the threads that are being continually hammered by people who seek to derail every type of thread.

I, I, I, I, I, This is by far the worst kind of thread. One that the author
wraps completely around himself. Frankly one of the things that is far from
my thinking, is what you are growing tired of. I am growing tired of people
not making the observation that their thread makes them sound like
ATS was founded around what they want.
Even if I agreed with all you are growing tired of. I wouldn't say it
because the way you have constructed your thread is all that stands out to me. It's not all about any one person at ATS.

Urwatu8

How insidious

Word for today "Insidious"

good one

[edit on 18-11-2009 by randyvs]

[edit on 18-11-2009 by randyvs]

I don't know that this is a *conspiracy* site. To me, it's always been a site that seeks to "deny ignorance", as the slogan goes. That means, in my opinion, to seek the truth, whether the truth is a conspiracy or whether the truth is that a conspiracy isn't happening.

Most of the conspiracy theories discussed here are incorrect. How do I know this? Because so many of them are completely contradictory to others. If one is correct, then there are several others - sometimes dozens of others - that cannot be correct. For instance, if some theory about 9/11 is true, then most of the others must be untrue. Proving one, rules out many others. The problem we face isn't in coming up with conspiracy theories. Our problem is knowing which are accurate, and hich are not. Separating the wheat from the chaff.

To me, this site is about seeking the truth, with a focus on the possibility - the *likelihood* - that sometimes conspiracies are behind what's going on. However, that doesn't mean that each post must announce a fully-formed, complete theory. Asking questions, even when no theory is imagined, is an important part of the process. Again using 9/11 - I don't know what the truth is about what happened, but I can say that the "official" version is unsatisfactory. Must I have a theory at hand, just to point out that there's a problem with the official explanation? I think not.

I agree that this site is *supposed* to be about acceptance, insofar as we are to accept others with whom we disagree. I do NOT agree that we are to accept every conspiracy theory - in fact, I believe we are not to accept any theory until there has been sufficient evidence to show that it is a reasonable one. The fact that some official version of an event is false, doesn't prove any other theory. The fact that we can't explain some phenomenon, doesn't mean that any particular theory about it is right.

As far as this not being a "political" site, true. However, it is impossible to discuss conspiracies of the government, without introducing politics. The government is composed of politicians, who are known not to be 100% honest in all cases. (Translation: if their lips are moving, they're lying). Politics is built into any conspiracy theory involving the government. And really, it's just about impossible to discuss politics without someone getting all ballistic over it. That's one reason someone said that forbidden topics are politics, religion, and secx - too emotional for consistent, rational discussion.

And yet, that's mostly what we discuss here (well, two out of three, anyway). Politics and religion. Emotions and poor reasoning are inevitable. Sure we need to try to keep it rational and calm, but we're taking about things some people have extreme feelings about. You're going to get some irrational comments.

I think, too, that many of the discussions about religion that seem not to include a conspiracy angle, actually do. They are often in the stage of questioning the official story, without yet having a reasonable conspiracy theory to offer. So someone points out inconsistencies about some religion, but doesn't clearly say, "so this is a conspiracy, and they're trying to do X". Maybe they don't have any idea what they're trying to do, but are simply pointing out a flaw in the religion's claims. The theory may develop later. Or someone might be able to satisfactorily answer the question in a way that removes that objection.

The point is, a conspiracy theory has a certain life cycle or way of growing. First, there are questions about something. Then there may be attempts to change the official story to explain these questions. Often those changes aren't enough to do it, so the questions remain. People come up with alternative explanations that seem to cover the facts, including the questions being asked. However, there is almost always more than a single possibility, meaning you might get dozens of possible theories. Then you work to weed out the ones that aren't satisfactory, asking even more questions, challenging "facts", identifying fraud, error, logical fallacies, and so on. Since we're almost always working with incomplete data - and since there is often a coverup going on - we need to be flexible and open to possibilities.

But each stage of this process, including the very beginning stage where all we have are questions without a theory, are vital. You can't just tell people they can't discuss something without having a theory about it. Of course we can. That's how every conspiracy theory starts. We wonder why this happened, if such-and-such is really true. We question the answers, seek to find others that fit better. No one has a theory all figured out right away. It needs to grow as the information grows.

This can be a frustrating process, because we want answers. But we need to make sure that our answers are true. Otherwise we're replacing one fairy tale with another. How is this any better? One part of discussing conspiracy theories it to ask the same hard questions about each theory, that we ask about the "official" story. What makes it even harder for us is that we've got to ask these questions about many explanations, not just the official one. And, if we are intellectually honest, we've got to ask these questions about our favorite theory, no matter how much we may love that one. In fact, I'd say we've got to be most skeptical about the theory we most like, since there is a natural tendency to go easy on that one.

So I'm all for asking questions, even when no one has a conspiracy theory about it. I'm all for treating *every* explanation, not just the "official" one, with serious skepticism, approaching it with the attitude of "guilty until proven innocent". In my opinion, no theory should be accepted without there being powerful evidence that it is closer to the truth than whatever explanation currently is in place. Certainly I disagree that any theory should be taken on faith or accepted because it is somehow agreeable to us. And I disagree that we shouldn't discuss a topic unless we have a conspiracy theory about it.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

This is a conspiracy site isn't it? Then act like it people.

I am growing tired of all of the threads that are being continually hammered by people who seek to derail every type of thread.

I am growing tired of all of the threads that are being started about things that have no conspiracied but yet thrive full of stars and flags.

I am growing tired of all of the threads that pertain only to political stances.

Not sure how your thread is about conspiracies. You seem to be doing a rant thread which violates your own sense of inapproriateness. No wait I get it!

You are saying there is an anticonspiracy conspiracy. The derailers are trying to take over. How insidious!

Personally I think the skeptics are necessary. In many cases, it has been an intelligent skeptic that has uncovered hoaxes and reminded us that sometimes these conspiracies project a sensationalized, generalized, and over-simplified view of reality.

The OP should listen to these voices with an open mind and ear as you would anyone with a fantastic, undeniable conspiracy. Learn to love the skeptic because they are here for the same reason, to sift through the confusion. We are all here to learn (except for stalkers for the alphabet agencies who are here to monitor us, hey guys!) and it would be hypocritical, considering some of the NWO subjects discussed here, to silence voices because you don't like their opinion.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


yeah, only problem is that lately, most of the conspiracies people dream up and are made of some of the most convoluted, factually distorted, non researched crap you can imagine, and worse.

If you're so tired then go to bed! Go back to sleep, your government is in control - american gladiators is on, go back to bed america.....

Just because people are debating topics which bore you or somehow rub you up the wrong way doesn't mean you should be able to make them stop.

It's not hard to only read topics that interest you, why do you need to be in every topic?

Someone's taken a photo of a blurry dot in the sky? I don't read the thread.
Someone's had a dream about fish? i don't read the thread.
Someone thinks the moon looks funny this month? i dont read the thead.
Someones board of ats? i don't read the thread.

ok, i admit sometimes i do nip in to make a quick point about how asinine it really it, i gotta do my part for the community

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

 

yeah, only problem is that lately, most of the conspiracies people dream up and are made of some of the most convoluted, factually distorted, non researched crap you can imagine, and worse.

Wow, that post is awesome.
I love when people generalize. It s always wrong ^^

I think you are a crypto facist disinfo agent sent here by GFL and the NWO to enslave us all, that good enough for you

i thought this was an Alternative Topics site. Which would include, but would not be limited to, conspiracies.

Am I wrong?

Maybe I missed the part in the TAC that says this site is solely for the discussion of conspiracies.

Could you point it out to me?

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

 

You could have at least placed this in the questions section. Are saying this is a conspiracy?

Peace.

It is a conspiracy, the Banking elite have hired an Asia based company to constantly spam the forums with threads you do not like. Do not read articles about none conspiracy's, you're supporting child labor.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress

This is a conspiracy site. Let us get back to the conspiracies. We are here to find the truth not political ideologies or morals.

Actually it's an alternative subjects discussion forum.

To the OP -

If you tire of political discussions, religious discussions, PETA discussions, etc. then I advise you to stay out of those boards.

Notice that those boards were created and exist for a reason?

Also what about conspiracies don't you get? You CANNOT have a conspiracy if you have believers and no skeptics. Conspiracies and skeptics go hand in hand, so quit whining about people who try to uphold this site's motto to "deny ignorance".

From my years being here,

I've concluded that this forum is about Evaluating conspiracy theories.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


I am curious as to what you want. Is it tht you only want people in threads that agree with the conspiracy theory? So if someone disagrees then they should not post?

Pesonally, I have tried to get better at just staying away from threads I find to be ridiculous,but sometimes the temptation is overwhelming. Like when a guy says:
1. Proof of alien races on the moon and you know before you go in that it going to be pictures of rocks.craters, and shaows on the moon or mars.

2. They say they have proof of ufo's but it is just a video of a light in the sky while the guy filming it shakes like he has the palsy.

I could give more but why start an argument.

Truth is I would love if someone posted some real evidence to back up some of these things, but I have yet to see any and sometimes the disappointment leads me to say hey that is just a rock or that is just a light and a shaky cameraman but I guess it doesn't do either the op or myself any goo to point out the obvious.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
reply to post by calstorm

 

These people have no desire to find conspiracies, they only want to show that there is none.

So rather than deny it, you would embrace ignorance?

I mean, if there is a conspiracy, why do 9 out of 10 of them need things to be either wrong, made up or misleading in order for there to be any truth in it?

Pointing out the flaws in a topic, is what helps those lost in the confusion that sometimes arises from always "looking for a conspiracy in everything" perhaps see why they may be wrong, or misguided.

If you're constantly looking for shapes in shadows, you will inevitably find demons and goblins. Telling people they're mere shadows is what helps to winnow the fact from the fiction.

And if a differing opinion is wrong, it's up to the thread and community to show why, and not just for someone to post a new thread stating that any notion of conspiracy must be genuine and that we must never probe for veracity.

I agree. I am quite sick of some over opinionated people on here that think what they believe is what everyone else, and in particular the topic poster, should believe also.

People need to open their minds and think and decide for themselves, not be "told" what to believe and even have their ideas scoffed at and topic content laughed at and even joked about.

If you didn't post about this then it wouldn't be long before I did, so thank you!

Star and Flag!

keep it real people, and decide for yourselves for God's sake, it could well be a matter of life and death for you, and you know which side all the disinformation agents are on. Remember what "you" hold true is the most important thing!

Peace...

NW

You know what I am sick of? People continuously saying "this is a conspiracy website", and then using that for a reason to make stupid, baseless topics with zero proof, zero reason for belief, and a bunch of lies, and incorrect information.

Maybe you people need to look up the definition of conspiracy.

dictionary.reference.com...

No where does it say a conspiracy is a baseless claim that doesn't require any type of evidence or proof to back up it's existence. Nor does it say conspiracies are not to be debunked or reviewed by skeptics.

Conspiracies are NOT supposed to be fictional regurgitation of the imagination. They are supposed to be logically consistent with information that is available. There must be a reason to believe the conspiracy, and facts to back up that reason.

A conspiracy THEORY is supposed to be debunked. That is how we find out if the theory is valid or not. Just like scientific theory, you are supposed to try to debunk it with experiments to see if the theory is valid or not.

If you want to regurgitate theories and not have it debunked then you need to go to a "fiction website" where people will entertain the thought of your theory without caring if it has any basis in reality.

However here on ATS we like TRUTH. The only path to truth is skepticism.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by On the level
I think you are a crypto facist disinfo agent sent here by GFL and the NWO to enslave us all, that good enough for you

Can't be from the GFL - Look what happened to Cmdraleon.

As Die Another Day says, it's about Evaluating conspiracies, amongst other things.

To do otherwise, makes the place as mundane as the rest of the internet.