The ONLY kind of hate allowed on ATS

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by riley

 

i think the op was saying (and this does happen more glaringly in big surges) is the inordinate amount of it that is given a free pass. for example, as one of the other posters in the thread pointed out, when someone attempted to copy the offensive signature with the guy's handle in it, it was censored out by a mod. i can understand this and not understand this at the same time.

It was censored out because (from what I remember) the poster was specifically compared to Hitler and it was a blatent personal attack which is against the rules.

1) i understand it because it is singling out an individual for ridicule based on his opinion. 2) i don't understand it because his version was singling out all people of a certain belief system, for ridicule, based on their opinions.

..and I have seen many christians use the "hate the sin love the sinner" in such a way that it is denograting to non christian groups (while other christians use it in a good way). Most realise the context of his signature and it's pretty obvious the OP SINGLED HIM OUT as an aggressor in order to BULLY him. Classic passive aggression.. the OP's claim is that only hate against christians is allowed at ATS.. yet this was based on the signature of ONE member??

He in fact managed to put that member on public trial all while claiming to be his victim. :shk:

Shall I go ahead and post all the hate threads directed at non christians? ..or doesn't actual evidence contrary to the OP's assertions count?

I'm not interested in discussing his sig anymore because it's a non issue. Imo the OP owes ATS staff an apology (or at least a retraction) for saying they only allow/sanction hate againt christians. Thats slander.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

It's socially acceptable for a black man to racially insult a white man.

It's socially acceptable for a Muslim to religiously insult a Christian.

It's socially acceptable for a woman to be sexist to a man.



But when the foot is on the other shoe, the guns go blazing.

This has to be relevant somehow.

Originally posted by WishForWings
It's socially acceptable for a black man to racially insult a white man.

It's socially acceptable for a Muslim to religiously insult a Christian.

It's socially acceptable for a woman to be sexist to a man.



But when the foot is on the other shoe, the guns go blazing.

INDEED! INDEED! INDEED!

VERY WELL PUT.

And this is never addressed--hardly ever admitted by much of anyone.

How is it that the powers that be SO SUCCESSFULLY manage to establish such horrendous double standards with impunity?

As Scripture says of this era . . . GOOD WILL BE CALLED EVIL AND EVIL WILL BE CALLED GOOD.

The very notions of reality, good and decency are turned inside out.

I was watching a YouTube video . . . don't have the link handy, the Pastor, I think it was . . . maybe I can find the link . . .

Here's one:

www.youtube.com...

And here's the other one:

www.youtube.com...

I think maybe it's the first one whereing he notes from his research that the powers that be have set up Islam and Christianity to destroy each other . . . leaving the remander of the global citizens to be more easily coerced into worshiping the global leader as Scripture predicts.

I had guessed years ago that they were setting up Islam to help destroy the other religions . . . then to be destroyed itself. But I think he's right that they have set it up to try and make Christianity and Islam destroy each other.

What an interesting era we live in.

The OP'er is correct 100%, as I have said many times before it get very tiresome to constantly have hate threads every 2nd day and add to that the pure attacks that occur in almost every thread where God is mentioned.

Maybe the next time some attacks me personally or my beliefs beyond what would be considered an acceptable discussion level I will take some legal action and hold the moderators and owner of this site along with the poster responsible...

One for the person who does the attacking, bullying..abuse...
One for the moderators for allowing it.
One for the owner not taking a greater care in enforcing the rules that everyone accepts to be able to post in the forums.

reply to post by riley


You're done discussing this because you are starting to realize what assuming does and you don't like the feeling. Too bad it came a day late and dollar short. At least you have this lesson to learn from going forward.

No apologies will be given to ATS, ATS mods or anyone else that feels that I cast a shadow on them. To those that feel guilty or that the opinion struck too close to home, let this be an opportunity to begin looking at yourself before lashing out. Maybe there is something to it? If not, no reason to be defensive.

But I haven't addressed the biggest issue. You again have failed to even take the time to read my previous posts which showed that I am not isolating just the Christians as the victims of this hate. Your ignorance on this topic shows a rush to judge, a rush to label and an overall ignorance that is breath taking. I have said multiple times now that it is JUST the Christians. I'm done explaining my position as I have done it too much for the trolls and I will feed you no more. Read the previous posts, educate yourself as ignorance is not accepted here.

Originally posted by 297GT
The OP'er is correct 100%, as I have said many times before it get very tiresome to constantly have hate threads every 2nd day and add to that the pure attacks that occur in almost every thread where God is mentioned.

Maybe the next time some attacks me personally or my beliefs beyond what would be considered an acceptable discussion level I will take some legal action and hold the moderators and owner of this site along with the poster responsible...

One for the person who does the attacking, bullying..abuse...
One for the moderators for allowing it.
One for the owner not taking a greater care in enforcing the rules that everyone accepts to be able to post in the forums.

Outstanding! A man/woman with a plan. Instead of pissing and moaning about the OP singling out Christians (directed to the trolls), you have a plan. I will tell you that ATS, for the most part, has a great group of mods and posters. I can't speak about SO as I have tried to talk to him on a couple of occasions only to be ignored. I know he is busy but even a "I'll have one of my mods look at this" would have shown a decent level of concern. In any event, most of the time, it is expected that you will tolerate a certain amount of hate, especially if you are in the key groups that have been identified earlier. Your call on how much is "acceptable". I started this thread because I wanted to see what others thought and if I was alone in my observations. 18+ pages later, looks like I wasn't that off.



Good luck on here and feel free to u2u me if you have any questions.

Originally posted by Roadblockx
reply to post by riley

 

You're done discussing this because you are starting to realize what assuming does and you don't like the feeling.

Too bad it came a day late and dollar short. At least you have this lesson to learn from going forward.

I beg your pardon? I will not discuss the signature thing because it is NOT offensive and I believe people are only PRETENDING to be offended so they have something to martre themslves on.

No apologies will be given to ATS, ATS mods or anyone else that feels that I cast a shadow on them.

Typical. You said that the ONLY hate allowed on ATS was at christians.. people gave examples of other groups having hate directed at them yet you decide it's not relevent.

I have said multiple times now that it is JUST the Christians. I'm done explaining my position as I have done it too much for the trolls and I will feed you no more. Read the previous posts, educate yourself as ignorance is not accepted here.

Sorry mate but the title of the thread and the OP says christians are the ONLY ones that are allowed to be hated on ATS. It's not my fault if you want to backtrack and pretend you never said it.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by WishForWings
It's socially acceptable for a black man to racially insult a white man.

It's socially acceptable for a Muslim to religiously insult a Christian.

It's socially acceptable for a woman to be sexist to a man.

But when the foot is on the other shoe, the guns go blazing.

This has to be relevant somehow.

Again, another poster that I wish I could donate some of my stars too! I do agree for the most part that your observations are dead-on. I have been sent numerous examples via u2u of threads where men in general are negatively attacked without any warnings and a response against women in general receives a violation of t/c. Same with the other examples mentioned.

My summary of this event is that if you are a white male in relatively fair health, you can NOT criticize others. It has been deemed socially unacceptable for you to do so and ATS is not immune to that. You CAN criticize the government to some degree but any other groups, a bullseye is painted on you. Not sure why this has become so accepted.

reply to post by riley




Wow, if you were any more perfect, I would say you should be careful standing next to a cross. You may get nailed to it.....

The great part of being able to look back and see where I may have errored or rushed in making a statement AND accept that I did so means I have no problem modifying my initial response. That's what imperfect people do. You obviously wouldn't understand that.

I haven't discounted anyone else's examples of seeing hate on here. Please feel free to show me where I have, if you can't, then it sure looks like we all know who is guilty of ignorance. Also, while you're at it, explain to me how you can go back 18+ pages and modify the OP. Please, I am extremely intrested to know how because I don't see an edit option which means only a mod can do it and you think they don't have enough to do? Again, you probably wouldn't understand.

So have at it. I called you out on a couple of your points. Whatcha got?

reply to post by undo


Seriously, I can't thank you enough for helping me explain the point of the thread. Talk about some people just not being able to take the blinders off...

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by riley

 

i don't think ATS staff has a bias against christians, specifically.

That was the claim made in the OP.

i think it's endemic to the world we live in today because of stereotyping. if the mods started defending christians against hate speech now, easily 2/3rds of the place would erupt into an angry mob.

I agree.. if mods started defending christians against "hate speech"/contrary opinions and ignoring it when it's directed at non christian there would be a major backlash. They are meant to be impartial.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

I didn't think the mods needed a defender but glad someone has choosen their own calling. Yes, some mods do allow hate to be given to one group more then another. That means there is a bias by SOME mods, not all.

Also, the point being made (again, for the 1000x time) is that attacks against some groups are more accepted/tolerated/allowed then attacks against other groups. Stop being so difficult.

editted my spelling of "choosen"

[edit on 18-11-2009 by Roadblockx]

Originally posted by Roadblockx
reply to post by riley

 

The great part of being able to look back and see where I may have errored or rushed in making a statement AND accept that I did so means I have no problem modifying my initial response. That's what imperfect people do. You obviously wouldn't understand that.

Thats why you can retract things.. but no you just blamed people for not reading all 18 pages inbetween? If you think the title needs to be modified ask a mod.. but at this point it just looks like you are using this thread to bash non christians.. and now it's black men and women. Ironic.

I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your post as it's just sarcasm and insults.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by Grumble
Just seeing this thread for the first time. My question for the OP is, why should I be required to show any respect for any religion?

Criticise Jews and you risk getting banned. Criticise Christians and that's OK. The problem isn't that people are disrespectful towards Christianity. The real problem is that there's a double standard on this forum : one for Jews (or other protected minorities, like blacks or homosexuals) and one for Christians (or other non-protected majority groups, like whites or heterosexuals).

[edit on 18-11-2009 by PC equals Newspeak]

reply to post by riley


Thanks for adding to the thread and not even coming close to responding to any of my questions. You ignoring the questions proves my point more then anything I could have written. I will even star your response because it helped me so much. Take care.

reply to post by Roadblockx


Your last post was full of insults and sarcasm so of course I didn't repond to that. If you want people believe you are a "victim" of hate stop hating.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
reply to post by Roadblockx

 

Your last post was full of insults and sarcasm about my being perfect. If you want people believe you are a "victim" of hate stop hating.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

Come on riley. I know you are better then this. I asked you to address two questions which you glossed right over. How can you be taken serious if you pick and choose which questions to answer? You're not a politician. Also, please don't think that I am tryng to play the victim card. Far from it. I'm not a victim of hate but have seen it and created a thread to talk about it. Not trying to get sympathy from anyone. I just wish I could get the blinders off people and just see what is going on in ATS. If you don't think there is a problem, then say that and move on. I, along with many others, believe there is a problem and an obvious bias. We can agree to disagree but there is no reason to lock horns and ignore questions.

reply to post by Roadblockx


AGAIN.

Your post was riddled with sarcasm and insults so I chose not to respond to it.

[edit on 18-11-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by Roadblockx
Yes, some mods do allow hate to be given to one group more then another. That means there is a bias by SOME mods, not all.

Just for clarification, what you pose there is virtually impossible. No actions are taken in secret and rarely are they taken unilaterally. The overwhelming majority of actions taken are preceded by a discussion, and even the ones that aren't, there is a log of actions which anyone on staff can review.

Any individual mod bias would be nullified by the team concept in which we operate. The diversity of the staff practically ensures decisions will be made in accordance with the T&C and not by whatever personal opinions one staffer may hold.

Any perceived bias is more a result of us being unable to read every post in every thread, much less do it in a real time fashion. Do we make mistakes? Absolutely, yes. Sometimes errors of omission, sometimes errors of commission. But there is a distinct and concerted effort to be fair, and moderate solely with the intent to promote an environment of civil discourse.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Here, they are not entitled to present it in any manner they deem appropriate. We have a wide range of participants with widely different backgrounds, levels of eloquence, and opinions. Intelligent, on-topic remarks presented civilly and within the T&C are always welcomed.

When you see something that is a violation, alert on it. Responding in kind is less than no help. You can't clean up a mess by making a bigger mess out of it. If you'd prefer to not alert, then ignore it. At least that doesn't exacerbate a situation.

I hope that sheds a little light.

reply to post by yeahright


You have my sincere respect and appreciation for what you and the other mods do for this site. Obviously most of us aren't privy to the amount of sacrifice that being a mod on a site like ATS requires or the decisions that you are forced to make. To error is human and that should be expected.

My respose, and if you prefer to have examples I can send them to you via u2u as I have received several, is that I don't believe that all of the mods on ATS are judging by the same set of guidelines. In cases that I have seen, a mod will remove one person's post but not the one or two that contain very similar speach. In these cases, I'm not sure what the procedure is, but it seems that the mod is making a decision without consulting with any other mods. Doing so would probably not allow a quick reaction to keep a thread from becoming a shoot out. I agree that it isn't good to hear that some of your staff (small portion) seem to be running a little looser then others but it seems that could be the case. From what I have been sent and I have seen, there are a few that are doing enough bad to give an overall poor impression as to how mods are operating. As you can see by the u2u's in my inbox, I have spoken with several mods and have a great rapport with them. But I have also run into two mods that balance out my great experiences with poor ones. Had I only had experiences with the two poor ones and not taken the time to contact other mods, I would have only poor experiences to respond to.

So let me ask this as it was something being discussed privately. What would be your recommendation as to how someone feels they have been treated unfairly have it reviewed? Contacting the mod who implemented the punishment shouldn't be the point of contact. If we contact another mod at random, it could very well be a close friend of the first mod meaning it will not do any good. Sending a u2u to a other "super" mod seems like a waste of their time but perhaps that is where the mod reviews should be performed. My point is that there doesn't seem to be any escalation or mod review process that we can see. This behind the scenes, in dark room review makes it seem like we (I say we in the context to those that have sent me emails and u2u about their feelings that are similar to mine) don't have any say. Most times these situations can go days without any response from a mod/super mod while a ban stays in place. No response on this end seems like we are being ignored and left out to pasture. Maybe that's the case and there is no "appeal" and we just live with what we are given but ATS seems like a perfect place to have something in place to balance the power to prevent mods from over-stepping or using a spur-of-the-moment reaction to decide things. Citizen review board for police, member review board for mods?

I eagerly await your response and appreciate your time. Thanks again for making ATS a great place to be apart of.

Fixed spelling, sorry yeahright

[edit on 18-11-2009 by Roadblockx]

reply to post by riley


And I suppose you haven't written any posts with sarcasim?

No biggie. I hope you stick around and continue the discussion relating to hate on ATS as your viewpoint is appreciated.