The ONLY kind of hate allowed on ATS

reply to post by Grumble


i don't have to take it on the kind of faith you are insinuating. the first step was faith and everything after that was accumulated evidence. in fact, ancient history and archaeology, supports my view. not my fault that some think our ancestors were all stoned on mushrooms.

p.s. i don't believe you will be relegated to the swamp of the most unholy crocodile. therefore the metaphor doesn't fit, which further proves my point that there are as many interpretations of what it means to be "christian" as there are people, because no two people literally believe the exact same thing.

It doesn't matter what people believe in as long as they don't use religion as an excuse to exploit or kill others. How many times in the past have influential people done this and what religion has caused the most suffering?

My advise to everyone is be spiritual and not a fanatic.

Originally posted by Grumble

If you are going to make assertions on this forum you had better use logical arguments and provide evidence for what you are saying, or you will be attacked. If your religious beliefs are such that they will not stand up to the reasoned scrutiny of these forum members, then you would be better off taking them elsewhere or living with the criticisms you will inevitably receive.

You know, if a person thinks about that which you take on faith, he is not being hateful, just analytical.

I can't help but say [snip] to that response. You will be attacked? Do you mean intellectally with healthy, well thought out ideas or attacked with insults, piss poor thinking and barbed replies? I see the benefit of one of those ideas and the complete idiocracy of the other. Which were you implying/referring to?




Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


the most suffering? atheism. because yeshua said, "don't do it." so if ya do it anyway, you aren't practicing christianity. you're practicing disbelief. that doesn't mean you aren't a christian, it just means you aren't practicing christianity at that moment, but rather disbelief in what yeshua taught.

such a logical thing but tends to be overlooked on a regular basis.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Annee

 

hello? i haven't once attacked a muslim person on ATS, at least, not that i'm aware of. this dragging around of the word "christian" and applying to it anything you want, is really getting old!

I was Christian for many years. Probably about 40.

Been on both sides of the fence. Have you?

If you want to make this personal about you - - that's your choice.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Grumble

 

oh and about the "jesus was born to a virgin" thing. you realize that today, people are occassionally born to "virgins" via artificial insemination? is this also looney?

oh sigh, you managed to sneak another insult in there.

Are you being serious?

What science can do today didn't happen some 2000 years ago

And IVF today doesn't claim that an invisible god is the daddy

It's all been done before anyway, christianity was plagurised- the virgin birth was nothing new.

reply to post by Annee


yep

and how can you not take things personally when there's a label attached and the label resembles you even if the accusation doesn't or hasn't or won't, ya know? it's like blaming all men for the rest of time, for what one man did or some men did or do. think about that. i mean REALLY think about that. shall we then say all men are bad because some men are bad? i just don't get the double standards we hurl around today. we complain about how the fall narrative in genesis is ridiculous because (among other things) it seems to imply that all humans are evil now because of what two humans did. this is the same concept. it's assigned evil to an entire sector of society based on nothing more than our shared human condition, but insinuated that it is particularly our world view that is causing the problem and not simply a human foible. egads-ness.




[edit on 17-11-2009 by undo]

reply to post by lifecitizen


yes i'm serious, and that's because my view is not necessarily the same as other views of scripture. what that translates to for you, since you seem to want to sit in judgement of me, is that ya can't fit me in a predetermined box with the word "christian" stamped on it because christians are individuals not clones.

Well my input on this thread I am sure is repeating both the believer and even nonbeliever when I say we were told this was going to happen. Scripture tells us that because we accept Christ as our Savior people will hate us. We are told we will be made fun of, mocked, shunned, persecuted, in some instances tortured or even killed (see some other countries for this).

What should we do about it? Should we be less than Christianly and stoop to the level of insults and mocking? I think not. I also understand though that each of us is human as does the Father. He understands that even His children the Christians will fall and stumble as sin is in the world and so are we. Saying that does not excuse our sin it only tells us that we should understand it will happen and learn to look for it and ask for forgiveness for it.

I have gotten to the point that seldom do I feel anger at someone who is mocking my beliefs but I feel more of a sorrow for them. That does not mean I will be sad for days on end about them, if that was the case looking at the world around me I would never be happy. But I do for a time feel sorrow and try to pray for them. But alas I have my own issues to deal with so sometimes I might not pray for people as often as I should.

I don’t hate people but yes I do hate what some people do, I do this on an individual basis though and sometimes it includes myself and other Christians. This is explained in the “don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin”. Also I agree that the signature is a play on that line but the point is also missed. It would make a bit more sense (at least to me) if it said “I do not hate Christians, I hate when they act in an unchristian way”. Because let’s face it, when someone hates Christians the most is when they are being hypocritical. Why should they not even the Father is disappointed with us at that time as well. But again the Lord understand we will fall, humans are more often than not a lot less forgiving than the Father, that is in our nature and understandable. I would not ask a nonbeliever to try to have the forgiveness of our Lord as most Christians I know struggle to come half as close to that forgiveness themselves.

In the end it is not about Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or even atheist. It is about humans and the struggle we have with understanding those who are different and have different beliefs than ourselves. If we do not fully understand another’s beliefs the only thing we can do is question them in hopes to better understand them or we could I suppose mock them because they are different. The choice is really up to each of us to make, just remember we are all human and fallible.

Raist

OP, you've done it again: skipped over substantial argument against your position. This time its worse, because you asked me to repeat myself & I courteously did.
Personally, since neither of us is ideologically so far apart, so surely has no major emotional investment in being seen to be wrong, if I had nothing, I'd admit it. Still, undo has pretty much killed this thread with passive-aggressive replies to perceived persecution & petulance (alliteration, woohoo!), so why bother?
This does bring up a point tho. Regardless of protestations to the contrary, there does seem to be a common mind-set to the Abrahamic religions, at least here on ATS; that of persecution. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that they are all founded on the ancient Jewish literary tradition, itself a product of a continuously defeated & occupied society? Trouble is, those old Jews never meant their apocalyptic, messianic stories to be taken literally & inspire self pity, rather they were allegorical & meant to inspire stoicism. Ho hum...
I've been meaning to get round to a thread on that very subject, but time & tiredness wait for no man, & we'll all go grey before a lazy bastard, eh?

reply to post by undo


Here you go - - here is my original post responding to another poster.

Please explain how I or the original poster is blanketing all Christians. I am speaking of those who have attacked me when I was posting about my Spiritual belief.

------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by breakingdradles

I've found there are MANY more anti-Islam posts.

I think the problem people at ATS have with Christians, is that they start debates here that they can't win, and use the Bible as fact.

The reason there is so much anti-Christian stuff here, is because there are so many Christians bashing other peoples beliefs.

It still puzzles me when someone can believe in a fairy tale, Christian, Muslim or Jew.



Originally posted by Annee

There you go.

I was raised Christian and was for many years. I have evolved out of that.

When I discuss my belief - - I ALWAYS get attacked by Christians.

They just don't see it that way. They see it as them being Right - and me denying Christ.

I think there is far more Anti-Muslims from Christians on ATS. Again - - they aren't attacking - - they are justified - - because they are "Right" (so they think/believe).

Oh & another thing, which may well be my last here, should the debate not re-gather steam: To reiterate, everyone knows that moocowman's siggy is a play on the popular christian saying. The reason something similar regarding muslims, gays, or whomever, would not be acceptable is that there is no corresponding statement to play off. If a christian siggied "Don't do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." I highly doubt Crowley devotees would complain, nor communists at "From each according to my greed. To each according to their apathy." However, I suspect that there would be as many muslims who would fail to see the humour in "Trust in Allah, but hump your camel first." as there are christians who fail to be amused by "I dont hate xtians, I hate what they do." There's a mind-set I'm tellin yer! Hot diggety dog sh!t I'll prove it ter yers all soon as I can sober up!
Edit for drunken balls up

[edit on 17/11/09 by Bunken Drum]

reply to post by Annee


i've changed positions as well, i went from not believing in anything other than party time, to believing in something substantially different. that also has been modified over the years, from indepth research. so how are we different precisely? you think your position is theoretically correct and i think mine is theoretically correct. somethings, however, i believe are sure and certain. perhaps you do as well? like you are pretty darn sure you're breathing atm. so am i.

however, you're doing it again. you're using that big brush to color everyone in a certain category the same and you're using it just on abrahamic faiths. doesn't it concern you that you're being manipulated to think those people in particular are the problem? i don't get it, annee. i think it sucks, and i'm not afraid to say so

reply to post by Bunken Drum


ya can't even say merry new years to some of these people.



oh my gosh it's a nativity scene.
oh look, it says "christ" in that.
good grief it's a pagan holiday and these people have been brainwashed into believing it's a christian holiday and they should boycott it. lol

Originally posted by Bunken Drumthose old Jews never meant their apocalyptic, messianic stories to be taken literally & inspire self pity, rather they were allegorical & meant to inspire stoicism.

Great posts by Bunken Drum and Raist.

To this particular statement I would add that Christianity, to me, is about adding joy to that stoicism. It is about goodness being its own reward, a Buddhist-like addition to Judaism. What would Jesus do when faced with criticism? He would smile in a kindly way, that's what.

Unfortunately, persecution complexes abound, and it ain't only Christians who have them, but damn, they are good at it.

I don't hate all Christian preachers. Just the ones who pimp the Son of God like a common twenty dollar whore. You know the ones who charge a "tithe" for you to belong to their church. The ones who dip into the collection to pay themselves a salary and buy a house and car and send their kids to college. The same ones who constantly call on God for his support in their Genocide of Muslims and poor people. The ones who quote from the book of Leviticus to justify their mistreatment of homosexuals, but refuse to put their women folk out in the barn with the cattle when they are menstruating.

reply to post by groingrinder


LOL! well there's one thing you can say about this: you sure got that right!

seriously, why are we following OT law when everybody and his uncle in the new testament tells you not to do it! the only things we're encouraged to follow are the obvious things for living peacefully with each other and with God. yeshua even mentions that the old testament laws are not all inspired of God but some of them are clearly Moses' laws. different thing altogether. moses was not god unless someone neglected to mention that.

but that's neither here nor there. what is of interest to me is the insistence that christians behave like christians, when it's their behavior that bugs the heck out of people to begin with. if christians behaved like christians all the time, the streets would be full of preachers! and, they took tithings even back in the days of the apostles, so you might have a problem convincing bible readers that it's a bad thing to tithe.

reply to post by Grumble


well yeshua had some interesting reactions to persecution and accusation.
sometimes he called his accusers, the spawn of satan.
sometimes he showed them their errors.
sometimes he remained quiet.
and sometimes he outwitted them.

Originally posted by undo

however, you're doing it again. you're using that big brush to color everyone in a certain category the same and you're using it just on abrahamic faiths. doesn't it concern you that you're being manipulated to think those people in particular are the problem? i don't get it, annee. i think it sucks, and i'm not afraid to say so

I suggest you look in a mirror.

Are you the original OP? Sure seems like it by the number of your responses to everyone. You are on quite the defensive trip.

My "brush" was between me and posters who directly interacted with ME.

Abrahamic Faiths - - see subject of original post.

Fact is - - not one person of any faith other then Christian has aggressively tried to put me down and called me names for my chosen Spiritual belief. Only Christians have done that. FACT - no manipulation.