The REAL Swine Flu Conspiracy

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Erm i made a thread about this exact theory a while back, the conspiracy community being the real targets and it barely got a response.

Oh well.

I'm sorry, I didn't see it and honestly felt like I was the only one. I waited a couple of weeks to start this thread because I kept wondering how I could be the only one to see it. "I must be wrong", I kept telling myself but I just kept finding the same thing. Lies, baseless claims and a huge amount of people not understanding things.

I had one ATS member send me a PDF labeled "Baxter Vaccine Patent". He claimed it was a patent for the new H1N1 vaccine and part of it described virus RNA in multiple species so of course he said this meant the vaccine has dog, horse, insect, etc in it.

I check it out and it's not a vaccine patent. It's the patent for a process to make vaccines. The prior art section describes how they can make vaccines for all these different species (and yes they do use cells and other "bits" from other species sometimes in genetic processes).

Anyway, I'm sorry about your thread, please feel free to copy your stuff over to this one if you want. At least we have some traffic here, I suppose.

OK....

So here I am, Mr Internet Denizen, I know nothing about viruses or vaccines but I see all these blogs that claim the swine flu vaccine is a "soft kill bioweapon".

Eeek...

I already know squalene is bad from the Gulf War Syndrome stuff but my Dr says the vaccine he has doesn't have it nor does it have mercury.

Well, I ask myself - Is this even possible? What kind of safety controls are there on vaccines anyway?

Maybe I should check....

Wow. Look at all those organizations who monitor vaccines. There's a very extensive testing and random monitoring program in place too.

Well, I say - maybe they're all "in on it".

But, I see quite a few groups who are opposed to vaccines because of mercury and autism and they monitor them as well. Gee, some of them even have research scientists of their own who analyze the vaccines to verify the contents.

That's a very large number of people to be part of this conspiracy thing. I wonder what proof the pro conspiracy side has....


It's not hard folks. Add in all the students, hobbyists, inventors - we're far beyond the number of people who could be told to "keep quiet", hell, some of these people aren't even working for anyone.

Critical Thinking. It's not just for the "skeptics"......

So I thought, if there really is an issue with the vaccine maybe there would be reports. I saw a forum post claiming that several women had lost pregnancies after taking the vaccine, where can I obtain proof of this?

It just so happens the government maintains a database for reporting "Adverse Vaccine Reactions" - as mandated by Congress.

Nurses, Drs, drug reps even patients can report adverse reactions to vaccines which are stored in a database anyone can access.

So I went and pulled down the data for this year: Vaccine Adverse Reaction Database

Wow, there's a lot of data and you have to look at two different spreadsheets sometimes to see which vaccine did it. Scary, scary stuff though.

So what did I find?

Almost all the flu shot reactions are soreness, pain in the arm where the shot was injected. I only found one major incident involving a soldier and the nasal vaccine but the Dr says the event was not from the vaccine but from a pre-existing neurological condition.

OK, well it should be easy to find all those mis-carriages, right?

Nope, not a single one people.

Now, GARDASIL on the other hand is one scary as hell vaccine. There are several reports of lost babies from that one by women who "became pregnant" soon after taking it. Even the other reactions are pretty scary and there are TONS of reports.

Now I know what people are going to say, government database and all that but there are some pretty "serious" reports in there for every vaccine you can imagine and anyone can call in a report, it's not just for medical professionals.

I actually expected to find those miscarriages but as usual, the only source is a forum on the Internet and not even one report made the database. Anyway, enjoy the reading - you may never take a shot again afterwards...

Originally posted by ecoparity
It only seems to kill the young and healthy.

Usually those young people have pre-existing conditons, at least from what I've observed.

reply to post by Stellar Divinity


That was one of the tactics used early on to try and minimize the effects of the pandemic but I don't believe it's true. The cytokine storm severity seems to be tied to how strong a person's immune system is. Healthy, young people get hit the hardest.

I can't and won't argue that people with health issues won't get very sick from it or die, that's a given but I hesitate to even try and define the stats on it after all the games the WHO and CDC have played.

Now this is the kind of material I was hoping to see, keep it up.

I'll have to give it a thorough look later though cause I just woke up and I'm still really groggy.

Maybe I missed it, but can you find like an FDA sheet or something that officially shows whats in these vaccines?

I hate the FDA but they couldn't get away giving false labels.

Still skeptical about both points of view, cause you make a lot of sense, yet on the other hand I search the net and am finding some "first hand witnesses" that talk about people they know paralyzed in the hospital.

I gotta ask though, if they are being so safe about these vaccines, why are pregnant women one of the target groups if it's known to cause pregnancy complications?

One of those I read in the U.S. the lady claims she took a mercury reduced shot because of her pregnancy. If I'm right, you claimed no adjuvants or mercury were in the vaccines. Either I misunderstood, your incorrect or this was some story planted by a disinfo agent.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Scarcer]

reply to post by Scarcer


Here is the FDA website section for H1N1. The various vaccines are listed with links to download the product inserts.

They also provide links on information that describes the monitoring and testing program for the vaccines from the Federal government side.

Keep in mind there are state and municipal agencies who also perform verification testing of the vaccines in addition to the community or researchers around the World who obtain the vaccines to test and perform genetic analysis on.

FDA H1N1 Vaccines

I said the US vaccines currently do not have squalene in them and it is possible to get them without mercury. If you get the multi dose type where they take many shots from one vial it will have mercury.

The vaccines also come in single dose, pre-loaded syringes which do not contain it.

If you check the product inserts there is at least one brand which does not contain mercury at all and another which contains trace amounts. The mercury is used in the manufacturing process and removed in the final stage. It would be up to the individual if that trace amount is a concern or not.

After checking the vaccine adverse reaction database for reports on H1N1 vaccines I found no cases of anything more severe than sore arms and flu type symptoms. Other vaccines, some very much used every year have much worse records.

The scariest reports I read were for Gardasil.

My next step is to work on showing people the hordes of researchers who would detect anything "hidden" in the vaccines or even the virus. I'm working on obtaining interviews with several microbiologists, virologists and even a couple of University students. We'll see how all that goes....


[edit on 13-11-2009 by ecoparity]

A much easier and better method for searching through the Vaccine Adverse Reaction Database is CDC Wonder, a web-based application which connects to the database.

Well with a little more research, I may consider going and getting the vaccine if I deem there may be an advantage.

But in your opinion, if a more powerful strain is flu is released down the road, is there a chance that these vaccinations may protect the patients from this future disease?

I'm reading through this and may go to a place they are giving shots and try to find out which one they are providing and do a check on every ingredient I can find to make sure there's nothing harmful. I'm surprised they don't put sodium fluoride in these personally. (Though it may come with the water)

I got a friend in the university who took her swine flu shot and figure out which one.

But what if we already caught the swine flu way earlier this year? Wouldn't we already have the same immunity as those who took the vaccines? I have yet to contract the "flu" again since the first wave. Though I did go on a flight in September and get sick with a sore throat and nausea, but that's not the same symptoms I got earlier.

Either way if I take the vaccines, I'll be doing a water fast a few days fallowing the jab.

This may be a little far out, but how hard would it be to detect nano technology slipped into the shots?

Here is another relevant question. How long does it take for these reaction databases to update? If something was wrong and a bunch of reports were coming in, they could be delayed by the system.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Scarcer]

[Double post]

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Scarcer]

I can't help but to suspect you are getting paid handsomely for this post, Ecoparity. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but you seem to have an insider's angle on a lot of the information you are presenting.

I guess that was abrupt.

I don't have a lot of time today to get into a point-by-point debate. I just want to put it out there that I think that a lot of researchers would be reticent on speaking out for fear of reprisals in their professional world. Look what happened to the woman who developed a neurological disorder after the regular flu shot. It wasn't too hard to find doctors willing to say that it was psychosomatic, that she was a hoaxster, mentally ill. The herd instinct in he medical and scientific milieu is quite strong and it is not unusual for a dissenter to get torn to shreds by his own kind for speaking his mind.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Asphodelven]

Originally posted by Asphodelven
I can't help but to suspect you are getting paid handsomely for this post, Ecoparity. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but you seem to have an insider's angle on a lot of the information you are presenting.

I guess that was abrupt.

I don't have a lot of time today to get into a point-by-point debate. I just want to put it out there that I think that a lot of researchers would be reticent on speaking out for fear of reprisals in their professional world. Look what happened to the woman who developed a neurological disorder after the regular flu shot. It wasn't too hard to find doctors willing to say that it was psychosomatic, that she was a hoaxster, mentally ill. The herd instinct in he medical and scientific milieu is quite strong and it is not unusual for a dissenter to get torn to shreds by his own kind for speaking his mind.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Asphodelven]

Yep, once again another "you must be a NWO agent" post.

If I demand evidence and refuse to believe in the fairy tales that pass for some conspiracy theories then the pathetic refuge of the weak comes out.

The conspiracy community walks a fine line between people who search for the truth and people with mental issues. The "NWO flu and killer vaccine" people have zero documentation, no evidence and for the most part don't stop to consider the logistical reality of the conspiracy they pimp to each other.

The people who have a real financial interest in this are the ones who push this crap while selling you miracle cures and home remedies that will "save you from the bio weapon swine flu".

If I wanted to make money I'd join the BS crew and set up a website selling magical cure alls, flu proof masks and surplus bio /chem gear.

You know what really bothers me? This isn't the usual fleece the suckers using a BS conspiracy. This is going to kill people, quite a few of them.

I'm not telling anyone to take the vaccine. If you don't want it that's cool but you need to make sure you protect yourself and try to avoid spreading the virus. I can sleep guilt free knowing I tried to wake people up that they're being sold a huge lie.

There's a conspiracy in these events, no doubt but it's the one they can get away with. Anyone who can't see the facts just doesn't want to or is here to protect their blog / website / cure all business.

I hope you folks are right and there's no swine flu to be worried about. I hope all the scientists are wrong this time about mutations and a coming wave of very deadly infections. I guess we'll find out in time either way.

reply to post by Scarcer


I don't think anyone is releasing the virus, it's just the normal 20 year pandemic cycle. One microbiologist I know thinks the pandemic was triggered by pig vaccines not being administered correctly but Niman doesn't support that theory so I don't know who to believe.

I don't take seasonal flu vaccines and even if I manage to take the pandemic one I don't expect to have to take another for 20 years or so.

The adverse reaction database updates constantly. Anyone who suspects foul play can call or email in a report and test it for themselves, I suppose. I wouldn't make false reports of drastic and horrible reactions as I suspect some people might be tempted to since it might cause problems when the FDA comes to investigate but there are ways to test it out without causing any issues.

Nano tech is not "smaller" than DNA, nothing is unless we're talking about atomic structure. When researchers break down a virus or a vaccine they can see everything in it and tell where it came from.

There's just no way to hide something deadly in either one and it not be detected by people who would know exactly what it is. Even one tiny bit that doesn't belong would raise red flags.

The Popular Conspiracy folks just kind of pretend that only the WHO and big pharma techs (one or two at most) examine these things. You can google papers written by independent researchers who have performed genetic analysis of the virus going all the way back to Mexico.

They can tell you every part of the virus, where it came from, when it came from - detectives don't get evidence like this.

I think there is just a gap in people's understanding of the technology and how many people are involved in it. I refuse to accept that over one hundred thousand people would all keep the secret, especially when a few of them are family and friends of the family.

I forgot your other question, I'll have to edit my post and add it.

Oh, the less severe and mild cases of the flu don't seem to give people immunity. I had it myself but since they weren't testing and even the rapid tests they had back then didn't work I can't know for sure if I'm immune.

The medical answer is to go ahead and get vaccinated, of course. Back when I too thought all the swine flu shots had squalene in them I didn't want to have to do that but now that I've checked it all out for myself I'm not worried.

I'll be asking for the product insert and demand a single dose, mercury free shot. If I can't get that I'll just take my chances I suppose and hope I can isolate enough to avoid infection.

One indicator is if you had a mild case and then got sick again or even a few times. The reinfection cases are the ones who didn't get enough of it to develop immunity according to Dr Niman.



[edit on 13-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Thanks for your reply Eco, so far most of your argument seams pretty solid, I'll research around and bounce some theories off of what I've learned so far and opinions of others including yourself.

reply to post by Scarcer


If you find anything interesting please let me know, post it in this thread if you feel like doing so.

One thing that I'm trying to figure out though.

Whats with different countries getting different vaccines. Europe gets the most dangerous one, yet according to the argument here, America gets the safest vaccines, supposedly.

Why is the media pushing the swine flu vaccines then? The drug companies already got their money, all that's left to collect profits are the stores and hospital centers making the final sell.

The media is still full of propaganda either way, so whats the point of this?

---

Personally I have a fear that there will be a real pandemic several weeks down the road, yet my guts telling me that this is all there is to this whole pandemic, nothing will happen.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Scarcer]

Yea I don't know what to think about this whole Swine Flu thing. Sometimes conspiracy theorists take things to a whole 'nother level. The facts are there, many of people are dying from this virus. For now I've chosen not to take this vaccine, but I don't want this to turn into some deadly outbreak and I'm the fool that didn't get vaccinated and their short on the vaccine..

I don't think the news is lying about the number of deaths. That's a fact. Is the vaccine safe? In the long term I don't think it's not. So I really don't know about this one guys, let us really educate ourselves...

I'm in the same boat everyone else is in, I can't trust the WHO and they won't tell us what's going on in Ukraine -

All we can do is try and figure it out for ourselves.

What if I take the shot and the virus has mutated to the point where it doesn't work? I doubt that's happened but thanks to the WHO I don't know.

A lot of virologists think things are going to turn bad so then I'm back to the only thing to do is to protect myself and mine.

I don't like that govt and companies in the EU seem to be able to do what they want and I really don't like all that stuff starting to come over here. It's like the NWO is "further along" in some ways in the EU.

I can verify enough for myself to know there's a serious issue, in every crisis there's a group who claims there's nothing to worry about and they usually get hit pretty hard when the threat is real. If the third wave is here and about to hit the result at the end should be a big investigation of the WHO and CDC - that much I can say for sure.

Eco.
Just thinking..many accuse(directly or undirectly) you for being an NWO agent.
(or something similar) yeah...right
What is your point in all of this....
Don't get me wrong...opinions are great...but...this is an Conspiracy forum....many people say that you're trying to push some dismissive campaign around here...

Things might be really serious...or do you know better?

Just thinking....

so i'm asking this...
if you are an educated medial person who knows something related to this thing...
are those Cytokine storms the reason of those deaths of the people?
Mean in deaths of young people in this flu or whatever (illness now) ?

I'm proposing an alternate conspiracy, hardly the work of a NWO agent.

People make those accusations because they cannot dispute the evidence and cannot support their own position. I can't believe anyone with any common sense would look at the popular theory and find it possible - there's just too many people in the way who would speak out.

I think the PTB are smarter than to do that when they can take the approach I've proposed and not only get away with it but also target the community they would love to eliminate the most.

There are quite a few people who have a financial interest in pushing the popular conspiracy as well - people with conspiracy blogs and websites, people who sell home remedies against the swine flu and so on.

This happens with every conspiracy - people let their imaginations take over and the true conspiracy gets lost in a bunch of insanity. I think the real agents do this on purpose because by making the conspiracy look insane they know there will never be any real investigation or prosecution.

If there was even a shred of truth to the popular conspiracy we would have at least one expert in the related science speaking out. There are none. That's because the theory as proposed is ridiculous and they know it would be impossible to accomplish.

Unlike most of our UFO and NWO conspiracy theories this one has the potential to kill people if they are led away from protecting themselves. I'm not telling people to get the vaccine, I'm telling them the threat is real and they at least need to protect themselves.

The popular theory is telling people to go out and buy colloidal silver (which I use but it's not going to save me from swine flu) and do nothing because the flu is hyped and not real. If they're wrong people will die.

If I'm wrong what will happen? Maybe someone takes the shot or maybe they don't - it's still their choice.

I'd watch out for the people making those accusations, IMO they are either the most insane of the bunch or they are the ones who have a vested interest in pushing the disinfo. That theory is so completely impossible it has to be the work of people who want to spread lies.