The Ancients Series | Part II: Indians

Again, thank you for this information.

I am not surprised by the refferences to advanced technology. Men/women lived for 1000 + years back in the day. It is not that difficult to believe they/we had full knowledge of much more than we read about in here.

Of course, one could also dismiss this as being a foolish fable, only from lack of knowing the truth about our history.

S & F for your efforts. Thank you, age of information!

reply to post by Charismagic


Let's just say i don't have enough time to learn Sanskrit right now. Is there anyway to prove that those passages actually exist within the Mahabharata besides looking at the online versions of the text?

Originally posted by undo
the three worlds?
possibly 1) the below (the waters, the inner earth, the abyss), 2) the middle earth (where we live), 3) the above (the starry expanse and planets)

[edit on 13-11-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by Charismagic

@ missvicky, Undo

The three worlds referenced are prithvi (earth), patal lok (underworld- demons) and swarga ( heaven)

Let me know if you need any more info.

Close enough undo.

What's the significance of these may i ask? I mean, what is the epystomological origin of these in Hindu philosophy/mythology?

Fascinating stuff! I read the sumerian thread too, and while that was good, this one is even better! This thread in particular has me really thinking and wondering about the vedas and other texts. Do you know any good english translations of some of these works? From what I understand, they add up to thousands of pages, but even if you can just recommend portions of it, I think it would make fascinating reading, regardless of whether the reader thinks it is real history or fiction.

reply to post by serbsta


whee. and with the real words, too. i like the etymology of the original words these old texts are written in, so thanks to charismagic for the data!

reply to post by serbsta

Another great post serbsta,
I have been reading a little about what I have learned from your post here and I'm impressed.

I would like to point out that the reference to what is being compared to an atomic bomb might have a natural explanation that happens on Earth in tiny amounts every day. It would be a huge endeavor to explain this and present all of the evidence in favor of proving the idea. I will say that it is related to lightning and that there is at least a possible natural explanation (no atom bomb needed).

The reading of this story and the idea of the amount of destruction that must have taken place really threw me off.

Twelve are the fellies, and the wheel is single; three are the naves. What man hath understood it? Therein are set together spokes three hundred and sixty, which in nowise can be loosened."

I would guess that this is an early calendar of 360 days. 12 "fellies" (Lunar months of 30 days each) on a single wheel (solar orbit) of 360 spokes (days or rotations). What are Naves? " three are the naves". Could these be the months between solstice and equinox?
Even though it says that the spokes, "which in nowise can be loosened", they were indeed loosened and there was an addition of 5.25 days added to the calendars. I wonder if you found reference to an event like this?

I think there is a lot yet to be understood about the special weapons and the use of the conch shells to make a trumpet sound. This description of special weapons and loud sounds (whistle, trumpet and conch shell) is ubiquitous throughout the worlds myths.

reply to post by serbsta


No, thank you. Not interested in proving anything.

a) I didnt write the epic. It is part of my history, heritage and culture.

b) I might quote the passages from the original texts with their translation and then some uninformed idiot, without knowing the language, would ask me to prove that, yes that indeed is the translation!

Thankfully I have better use of my time.

I have grown up reading the vedic texts since childhood, there were comic books based on vedic heroes, we studied the texts in school and we sort of grew up with them.

This is where reasearch comes in. Short of learning sanskrit, the only other recourse is to consult a scholar at a univ, maybe near where you stay.

Chose to believe whatever you want. Doesnt matter in the slightest to me.

I shall protest, however, if you sit thousands and thousands of miles away, dont know the language, havent read the complete epic and try to debunk it quoting English online texts.

@ DragonsDemesne

Scribd has lots of material on the Mahabharata uploaded by different people, and you will get a lot of material there. However its vast, so if you are looking for something specific, u2u me and I will help out as best as I can.

@ Undo

You are welcome.

@ Serbsta

Not sure I understand your question about the origin of these words. The three worlds, the concept of trinity.

One belongs to the human beings, the other to the demons and the third to the angels. Surely you can see the parallel with Christianity?

Extract 5 , matches perfectly , the description of an airship I beheld hovering above me in the year 1965 ( and it was very large ! ). At that time I believed it to be proof of extraterrestrials , now I believe it to be an extraordinary achievement , built by earthlings .

reply to post by DragonsDemesne



Download the Mahabharata text version online here:
www.sacred-texts.com...
(5Mb file)

Ramayana online version Index with all 6 books:
www.sacred-texts.com...

Enjoy reading.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

 

whee. and with the real words, too. i like the etymology of the original words these old texts are written in, so thanks to charismagic for the data!

Definitely, i think the etymology of the original words is the most important thing, it shows you what it initially meant which is necessary to understand as it is fundamental for any further research.

reply to post by Devino


Aha! We discussed this catastrophic event that apparently had a great impact on the calendar! Holy crap is this another similarity? Was this the 'great flood', so to speak, of India?

Well if we are to take it as a literal account, then i can't see any natural explanations causing the amount of damage that is being depicted.

reply to post by Charismagic


No need to get angry if someone asks for proof. The fact that i haven't asked for those passages that are being debated to be removed from the original post should say something, nay?

And no, im not going to just take your word for it. To me they are still suspicious, and just like you don't care what i think, i neither care what you think, as you seem to have it all figured out already. Cheers though.

Originally posted by Charismagic
@ Serbsta

Not sure I understand your question about the origin of these words. The three worlds, the concept of trinity.

One belongs to the human beings, the other to the demons and the third to the angels. Surely you can see the parallel with Christianity?

Was wondering why the Trinity was not mentioned by you earlier. Yes i can see the similarities, however the trinity originated much earlier than in these Hindu epics i believe.

reply to post by aethernaut


Well there you go.

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by Devino

 

Aha! We discussed this catastrophic event that apparently had a great impact on the calendar! Holy crap is this another similarity? Was this the 'great flood', so to speak, of India?

Well if we are to take it as a literal account, then i can't see any natural explanations causing the amount of damage that is being depicted.

I don't think a flood, no.
This reads like the great conflagration, burning of the Earth or a global fire. There are many ancient American myths that talk about a great fire that burned everything; the ground burned, the rocks burned, all of the people died and their corpses burned. So whatever happened on that side of the world that left an impression like that also happened on this side of the world.

What we think of lightning are miniature effects of what I think happened long ago. With a large electrical differential between Earth and another celestial object that passes close by, I would expect there to be a discharge of the electrical potential that would give lightning a whole new look. Plasma looks much like it is a living thing.
Here are a few small examples.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6efe17248eca.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3de920c2d1b5.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/814cbc3d5855.jpg[/atsimg]

The fact is that the arcing of electrical energy can get hotter than the Sun melting and burning rocks, creating nano diamonds and nano spheres and perhaps even create a fission/fusion reaction.
How destructive could this be?
Take a look at Valles Marineris on Mars and consider that this valley was carved by electricity, theoretically. These marks are all over the Earth as well, the Grand Canyon and the Colorado basin are full of them. These are also theoretically carved by electricity.

Proving the theory that electricity can make geological formations such as these would be a long uphill battle, to keep it simple I would just like to 'put this theory on the table' as opposed to a nuclear bomb.

Also keep in mind that there is actual physical evidence that such an event happened. Remember the Clovis event and the Younger Dryas/Black mat? This is a collection of evidence that something from space set the world on fire and killed everything changing the global climate all at the same time (I think it also changed the tilt of the Earth).

This link is a long read but the first several paragraphs are a must read,
Scarred Planetary Topography and Electrical Discharge Phenomena

Here is a link to Thunderbolts info.
The Grand Canyon: Part one

ADD; Grand Canyon: Part two

When we speak of charged planets imbedded in the sun's plasmasphere, they may be positively charged or negatively charged—the important factor is whether they touch one another. When the teardrop shaped double layers, or Langmuir sheaths, surrounding planets come close enough a discharge connection is made. The nature and strength of an interplanetary discharge might depend on a number of factors: charge accumulation, potential, conductivity of the surface strata, and current flow.

[edit on 11/14/2009 by Devino]

Thanks. I appreciate the links to the text. I wasn't looking for anything specific, just this thread got my interest up in ancient India for some reason :p

Would it be possible to include primary source documents for your posts? Context and where your receiving your texts, translations, and historical information are paramount in your threads believability. I assume your taking others information and coalescing it? That leads to a lot of inaccuracies in translation alone. On the other hand, just for a purely entertainment piece its fine, and I can tell a lot of effort went into it.

reply to post by Devino


When i said 'great flood' in quotations i was referring to a general major disaster and not an actual thread. But i see what you're saying and i suppose its one way of looking a natural explanation for what is being described. But could lightning cause warriors to go into the rivers to 'wash themselves'?

Originally posted by Ruggeder
Would it be possible to include primary source documents for your posts? Context and where your receiving your texts, translations, and historical information are paramount in your threads believability. I assume your taking others information and coalescing it? That leads to a lot of inaccuracies in translation alone. On the other hand, just for a purely entertainment piece its fine, and I can tell a lot of effort went into it.

Yes, check sources and further reading.

I have used the translations provided on the Sacred Texts website and from some other documents which only differ very slightly in translation.

"Context and where your receiving your texts, translations, and historical information are paramount in your threads believability. "

Yes of course, i have tried to do so without destroying the readability of the thread, which was its main intention.

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by Devino

 

When i said 'great flood' in quotations i was referring to a general major disaster

OK, I see what you mean. The thought of the Maya myths about the four ages of man came to mind in which there were four global catastrophes in human history. One by water, one by fire, one by wind and one by Earth quakes. My point was that this described event could have been global and this is the connection to other cultures and their myths.

If an accurate connection can be made between two or more different ancient cultures to one single global event then we could use this to better understand our history. With the information from these civilizations we can put together a bigger puzzle and compare time lines, sounds-words-glyphs-writing and the descriptions of these events. Something like this would be a tremendous amount of work but just think what we could learn.

could lightning cause warriors to go into the rivers to 'wash themselves'?

I would have to say that the idea of finding radioactive material surprised me, I don't know what to think. My first thought was that lightning couldn't do this but what do I know about radioactive material and what do we know about lightning?

lightning can make carbon nano spheres, iron and silica spheres and diamonds. These are found abundantly at the "Black Mat" layer all over North America.
This is how artificial diamonds and carbon nano tubes are made, an electric arc between cathode and anode.

Lightning can melt sand into glass, vaporize iron, fracture granite stones, ionize atoms and even accelerate mass. The problem is that the evidence seen on the planets, including Earth, and moons show huge events. They are truly astronomical.

There is so much information on this idea that it boggles my mind. The very thought of electricity being an alternate explanation to geological erosion sounds crazy yet there is evidence of this everywhere.
Why do we not explore this theory?
What was the reason we lost our memories, was it related to an electrical event?
Do we want to know these answers and do we want to remember?

I think that as your research continues we will find more evidence and I will be able to add more of my thoughts on this.

Can these myths show a possible time of planetary disorder?

...the most recent period of turmoil in the solar system ended less than 2700 years ago. Territorial disputes that continued for nearly a full century brought Venus, Mars, the earth, and the moon into repeated conflicts, scarring all of them to varying degrees.

Is there a religious, mythological connection?

Religious, historical and literary texts describing the battles of the planetary gods are fraught with references to cosmic lightnings and thunderbolts.

What was seen from Earth by those that witnessed all of this?

electric discharges took place between the planetary bodies during their close approaches. Furthermore, such discharges were evidently of such magnitude as to be visible from earth even when they did not actually terminate on earth.

Source-

The Mahabharata: Drona Parva
SECTION CLXXIX

Fierce winds began to blow, and thunders with loud report began to fall on the earth. Destroying that blazing illusion of Ghatotkacha and piercing right through his breast that resplendent dart soared aloft in the night and entered a starry constellation in the firmament.

www.sacred-texts.com...


The Mahabharata, Book 7: Drona Parva

The mighty Krishna also slew the valiant king of Chedis, that leader of kings, as if he were some animal, on the occasion of the latter's disputing about the Arghya. Putting forth his prowess, Madhava hurled unto the sea the Daitya city called Saubha, (moving) in the skies, protected by Salwa, and regarded as impregnable. The Angas, the Vangas, the Kalingas, the Magadhas, the Kasis, the Kosalas, the Vatsyas, the Gargyas, the Karushas and the Paundras,--all these he vanquished in battle. The Avantis, the Southerners, the Mountaineers, the Daserakas, the Kasmirakas, the Aurasikas, the Pisachas, the Samudgalas, the Kamvojas, the Vatadhanas, the Cholas, the Pandyas, O Sanjaya, the Trigartas, the Malavas, the Daradas difficult of being vanquished, the Khasas arrived from diverse realms, as also the Sakas, and the Yavanas with followers, were all vanquished by him of eyes like

www.sacred-texts.com...

Mahabharata, Book 7 Vana Parva

And then, O foremost of kings, the mighty Salwa, afflicted with the arrows of Pradyumna, rose disheartened, and speedily went away. Then O king, the wicked Salwa, thus afflicted by the Vrishnis, mounted on his car of precious metals, and leaving Dwaraka scudded through the skies!'"

www.sacred-texts.com...

Rig Veda Book 10, Hymn LV

(speaking of Indra, the Thunderer)

7 Through these the Thunderer gained strong manly vigour, through whom he waxed in power to smite down Vrtra,-
Who through the might of Indra's operation came forth as Gods in course of Law and Order.
8 All-strong, performing works with his companion, All-marking, rapid Victor, Curse-averter,
The Hero, waxing, after draughts of Soma, blew far from heaven the Dasyus with his weapon.

www.sacred-texts.com...

Originally posted by undo
The Mahabharata, Book 7: Drona Parva

The mighty Krishna also slew the valiant king of Chedis, that leader of kings, as if he were some animal, on the occasion of the latter's disputing about the Arghya. Putting forth his prowess, Madhava hurled unto the sea the Daitya city called Saubha, (moving) in the skies, protected by Salwa, and regarded as impregnable. The Angas, the Vangas, the Kalingas, the Magadhas, the Kasis, the Kosalas, the Vatsyas, the Gargyas, the Karushas and the Paundras,--all these he vanquished in battle. The Avantis, the Southerners, the Mountaineers, the Daserakas, the Kasmirakas, the Aurasikas, the Pisachas, the Samudgalas, the Kamvojas, the Vatadhanas, the Cholas, the Pandyas, O Sanjaya, the Trigartas, the Malavas, the Daradas difficult of being vanquished, the Khasas arrived from diverse realms, as also the Sakas, and the Yavanas with followers, were all vanquished by him of eyes like

www.sacred-texts.com...

That sounds like a very deadly weapon.

Originally posted by undo

Mahabharata, Book 7 Vana Parva

And then, O foremost of kings, the mighty Salwa, afflicted with the arrows of Pradyumna, rose disheartened, and speedily went away. Then O king, the wicked Salwa, thus afflicted by the Vrishnis, mounted on his car of precious metals, and leaving Dwaraka scudded through the skies!'"

www.sacred-texts.com...

Another great example of these flying Vimanas. I should have put more examples where they mention these 'metals' that were attributed to these Vimanas. The fact that they mentioned flying metallic machines alone makes you raise an eyebrow.

Nice find.

Originally posted by Devino

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by Devino

 

When i said 'great flood' in quotations i was referring to a general major disaster

If an accurate connection can be made between two or more different ancient cultures to one single global event then we could use this to better understand our history. With the information from these civilizations we can put together a bigger puzzle and compare time lines, sounds-words-glyphs-writing and the descriptions of these events. Something like this would be a tremendous amount of work but just think what we could learn.

Yes! Unity of myth, by far i think that is everyone's (who had interests in this field) main goal. To establish a foundation of origin in regards to myths, names, words, etc and their association to natural events.

I really don't know much about the whole 'electric universe' theory which i assume is in some part related to what you are talking about in regards to electricity and the effects it can have on the geological environment, but you seem to know what you're talking about it and it does pose some interesting questions, i do wonder, why isn't there more research on it.

Originally posted by Charismagic
@ Harte - Still doesnt change stupidity into fact, if all that you are doing, is going to sit in Memphis and quote the translation at the sacred texts.

Please learn Sanskrit and read the original, and then maybe we can talk.

Of course, there wont be any need after that in any case.

And I could be his grandson, for all you know

How about this?

You made a silly claim.

YOU go out and find another translation of the Mahabharata that backs it up!

After all, I showed that the translation you claimed you were reading said no such thing.

In the meantime, when you post crap, preface it with a qualifier (such as "I have read that..." or "So and so says that...")
And stop calling people "stupid" simply because they are more knowledgeable than you.

Harte

[edit on 11/16/2009 by Harte]

double post


[edit on 11/16/2009 by Harte]

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Charismagic
@ Harte - Still doesnt change stupidity into fact, if all that you are doing, is going to sit in Memphis and quote the translation at the sacred texts.

Please learn Sanskrit and read the original, and then maybe we can talk.

Of course, there wont be any need after that in any case.

And I could be his grandson, for all you know

How about this?

You made a silly claim.

YOU go out and find another translation of the Mahabharata that backs it up!

After all, I showed that the translation you claimed you were reading said no such thing.

In the meantime, when you post crap, preface it with a qualifier (such as "I have read that..." or "So and so says that..."
And stop calling people "stupid" simply because they are more knowledgeable than you.

Harte

Dude i'm sorry to say this, but you are wrong and Charismagic is correct. I'm English, i have Indian friends who i have spoken to who gave me more or less the same translation which Charismagic posted.
The fact is you are in denial and don't like the fact your christian religion is false, proven by ancient texts such as the Mahabharata etc...

[edit on 16-11-2009 by SKUNK2]