Do women have a human right to taxpayer paid abortions? I don't think so!

Another thing that annoys me about Anti abortionists is the fact that you all make out as if Abortion is on a woman’s life "to do before your 60" list. I mean come on, Do you honestly think people WANT to have abortions? If you get knocked up you have to contemplate telling the father and even then worrying about his reaction. If your a young girl you'll have to tell your parents or carer and its FRIGHTENING .
You'd like to force people to keep their babies because they're idiots and somehow, in your flawed logic, the responsibility will make them better people? Better how exactly?
Better in the kitchen? Better at keeping their legs shut? More understanding of how the world works?
Rich or poor, Rape or consensual, from tax-payers pocket or not, Should a woman seek an abortion she has every right. Because SHE is living. Because SHE is breathing. Because its not YOUR body or YOUR life to toy with.

Bring in:
- More sex education.
- More availability of birth control for all.
- Glamorise women who don’t put out easy.
- Glamorise men who take precautions.

Stop trying to inflict an unhappy existence upon people who are just living life. You don’t like paying for it? WRITE TO THE GOVERNMENT!

[edit on 12-11-2009 by SearchLightsInc]

What's really funny about this is that vasectomies ARE federally funded.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by galatea
So hypothetical situation:

Let's say abortion becomes illegal, except for rape cases.

Would said mother have to prove that she was raped to have said abortion?

This could cause some false accusations directed at men.
The sex was consensual, until the girl finds out she is pregnant.

In which case a rape kit coinciding with the very coincedental decision to report the rape in coordination with the very coincedental news that she is pregnant and the fact that she decides she was raped just after finding out would all make cases like this border on frivolity and most likely a good counter suit for the male. I think attorneys looking at a case like this would advise the accuser against even attempting them and district attorneys would tell most prosecutors not to waste tax payers money on them

"In which case a rape kit coinciding with the very coincedental decision to report the rape in coordination with the very coincedental news that she is pregnant and the fact that she decides she was raped just after finding out would all make cases like this border on frivolity and most likely a good counter suit for the male."

I know biology is hard for some, but generally speaking there is no "coincidence" between having unwanted sex and becoming pregnant.

Oh, and "rape kits" are only composed when rapes are reported.

If aborting is contingent upon bringing criminal charges, god help women.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Another thing that annoys me about Anti abortionists is the fact that you all make out as if Abortion is on a woman’s life "to do before your 60" list. I mean come on, Do you honestly think people WANT to have abortions? If you get knocked up you have to contemplate telling the father and even then worrying about his reaction. If your a young girl you'll have to tell your parents or carer and its FRIGHTENING .
You'd like to force people to keep their babies because they're idiots and somehow, in your flawed logic, the responsibility will make them better people? Better how exactly?
Better in the kitchen? Better at keeping their legs shut? More understanding of how the world works?
Rich or poor, Rape or consensual, from tax-payers pocket or not, Should a woman seek an abortion she has every right. Because SHE is living. Because SHE is breathing. Because its not YOUR body or YOUR life to toy with.

Bring in:
- More sex education.
- More availability of birth control for all.
- Glamorise women who don’t put out easy.
- Glamorise men who take precautions.

Stop trying to inflict an unhappy existence upon people who are just living life. You don’t like paying for it? WRITE TO THE GOVERNMENT!

[edit on 12-11-2009 by SearchLightsInc]

Couple things, first I don't think anyone envy's having to make a decision like that but yes it IS sometimes a consequence in some peoples lives while others see it as a blessing. The fact is which one of those you or anyone else sees it as shouldn't be the financial burden of the rest of us whom Ill say have our own personal problems to deal with and pay for!

I have no problem with the Government forcing responsibility where accountability should be placed, like having the male contribute his anty. Have the Government levy the guys checking account or withold a tax return to pay for it but just don't take it from ME! Like I said we got our own problems in life to deal and many times they are FRIGHTENING . the hell out of us too but you don't see me forcing them on you to pay for solutions especially when those solutions involve what many here happen to believe whether anyone else agrees or not, is the killing of an innocent life.

Try not thinking only of yourself but FOR yourself and taking responsibility FOR YOURSELF. Yeah no one said being an adult is a cake walk and no one says life is a bowl of cherries. Life isn't easy and many times it is a bitch and **** happens! That IS life my friend and as bad as that may seem, not one of you would like it very much if I decided it wasn't worth living but not to sacrifice MY life but to end yours.

I mean after all it is so bad you want to have all of us bail everyone out of everything these days. From bad business decisions Car manufactures and banks make to the bad decisions made in the bedroom. This seems to be the mantra for the progressives version of Uncle Sap or is it Uncle Scam? All I know is we are getting SICK and tired of paying for everyone elses screw ups! (no pun)



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Originally posted by criticalthinker
Oh, and "rape kits" are only composed when rapes are reported.

If aborting is contingent upon bringing criminal charges, god help women.

Chances are pal, that if she was really raped, all the rape kit and police reports and accusations including placing the male at the scene which is going to be really interesting, is the burden of the accuser. If any of that happens before she knows she is pregnant, chances are she is not making the accusation because she is pregnant.

Get it?

Originally posted by criticalthinker


I know biology is hard for some, but generally speaking there is no "coincidence" between having unwanted sex and becoming pregnant.

I know logic is hard for others too but it isn't the biology they are caring about it is the accusation and WHEN she decides to make it.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by canadianmouse

 

The reason it is against the law to kill an unborn child when you murder a pregnant woman is because you cut off the life supply of that fetus. Again without a womb that fetus can not survive. That is a wanted fetus in the female body, that is why the person would be charged with two murders.

Do you have any idea how totally irrational your statement above is?

So what you are saying is that it is murder if the mother wants the child, but not murder if she decides to abort it because she doesn't want it.

You even call it an unborn child when someone murders her, thus kiling the child, but when she aborts it then it is just a fetus.

It is illogical to define the exact same thing differently just because the circumstances change. Do you understand the error?

[edit on 12-11-2009 by HotSauce]

My statement is very rational. To me its a fetus both ways. I am trying to help you because you keep stating it is a child. To me it isn't a child until it is born. But when the fetus is wanted and someone kills the mother killing off the life supply of the fetus then it is murder. When a mother goes and aborts the fetus it is an abortion. The fetus can not live without the womb. Therefore killing the mother stops the fetus from surviving.

There is nothing illogical about that. If you don't understand what I am saying, I would be more then happy to write in more basic terms.

reply to post by Kerry_Knight


I am always amazed at the lack of caring that goes on in your country. The fact that you are referring to fixing everyone's screw ups really shows a lack of compassion. One day you will need help and those that you had no compassion for will not be there.

I personally am happy my country pays for those in need. The fact that my tax dollar not only goes to help those that can't feed themselves, or clothe themselves but also goes to help those that need medical care in their time of need. An abortion is in that list, they are able to get the assistance and counselling that they need in order to make an educated choice.

There are plenty of programs that I don't agree with that my tax dollars pay for but there is a lot more that I agree with. As an adult I understand that not everything in life goes my way, and government run programs might not be the way I want it to be but if I don't like them, I don't use them. I don't sit and demand people to follow my beliefs.

An abortion is a medical procedure that should be government funded. With the funding then better counselling, more information and better resources are out there for the general public. Just like the fact there with more tax dollars better resources are out there for babies to be born, I also would want government funding to prevent unwanted children that my government dollars will end up supporting for years on end. Through foster care, addiction and abuse services, welfare, etc. This is what happens with many unwanted children. Women that can't afford an abortion could go ahead and put the child up for adoption but do you know how many minority children really get adopted? A lot end up staying in the system and ending up alone. If a woman chooses to keep a unwanted baby because they couldn't afford an abortion, then they could end up abused or neglected. Lets not fail these children, there is enough abused and neglected children in the world.

Originally posted by criticalthinker
What's really funny about this is that vasectomies ARE federally funded.

Wow, and if this thread were about being forced to pay for those, I'd be in that one opposing it too. Why you people think we should all pay for elective surgery when NO health insurance does is beyond any rationale.

If a guy wants his vas defrens snipped or tied in a knot, why should WE pay for it? I mean it would be a better alternative to killing some baby but those kind of guys don't have much success getting woman pregnant.

Yeah it would be nice if guys who sleep around lke that would do us all a favor and get a vasectomy but not many do and none that I know of.

It is also true they don't have a compelling reason like being pregnant to get such an elective surgery no more than woman do to get there tubes tied when this would solve many problems associated.

No what happens is they don't want to even when it's free so they do it when a life is at stake and the only one they care about at that time is their own and the one they care the least about is the one that dies.

It's a little hard to garner any sympathy for someone like that much less finance their way out of the whole mess. They don't care about the life lost enough think they would give a rats ass about anyone else, so why should we care about them?



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Rocketgirl
“That is true and also sad. Some people who have abortion are actually selfish and are not victims at all.”

****I want to know about this “selfish” thing.
What exactly do you mean?
I get that the term has been used to mean that the accused is somehow bad for thinking of himself/herself first, But isn’t that an Instinctual Survival Mechanism?

Who are you to say that anyone should Sacrifice him/herself for another?
Who are you to determine which life is more valuable?
Why are you so willing to take the responsibility for mandating what another should do with his/her personal life?
Are you willing to share the consequences if your decision was the wrong one?****

Kerry_Knight
“So easy for you to justify all these fallacious arguments for how worthless some life you have decided isn't life at all for reasons not even science can agree with. That isn't slavery ohzone, that is called "Motherhood" it is called being responsible for your own actions and your own mistakes` it is called being an adult. “

****And you too, take it upon yourself to decide which life is worth more.
Obviously some women are not cut out to be mothers. Ever heard of Child Abuse? You have the right to Disagree all you want, but you have NO Right to tell that woman across town what she may or may not do. So you too would rather give up your hard earned money to pay for raising an unwanted child., or by your action cause the woman‘s life to be altered to her financial detriment.****.

**Paid for Vasectomies would surely help to prevent the need for Abortion wouldn’t they?
And they are Cheaper.

Did you all know that most medical plans fund Viagra?

Originally posted by canadianmouse
I am always amazed at the lack of caring that goes on in your country. The fact that you are referring to fixing everyone's screw ups really shows a lack of compassion. One day you will need help and those that you had no compassion for will not be there.

Oh sure they will pal, and that is just the point I am trying to make. You see if we were to have it all YOUR way, people like me would be helped because people like you will be FORCED to whether you think I deserve it or NOT! That isn't about your compassion or mine, it is about EXTORTION behind the guise of social compassion where I come from, "Giving" is something you do on your own volition and while you are so into having me give NOT of my heart but against my own free will, NOT only do all us givers never get the credit for what we give, NOT only will I never get a thank you from that womans abortion I hepled pay for, but you have decided I am not even worthy to complain about it too! Ha ha ha

No all I get to hear about is what a Bad guy I am for not paying for eveyones elective surgery everyones face lift and chin implant.

No you got to take it to the extreme and see me as someone not having the compassion for the hungry or the homeless. When was the last time YOU were putting a roof over someones head who is homeless RENT FREE because I AM while sanctimonous stretchers of the truth who expand the topic to opposition of paying for food and shelter, will step right over a homeless person. An abortion MAY be a medical procedure and one even an emergency room physician will do in good conceience if it is to save the life of the mother BUT those are not typical abortions my friend and make up less than three percent of abortions performed. They would be paid for anyway but if it is not a life I am saving but a "lifestyle" instead.

I got no reason to feel bad about saying no and you got no reason to judge me as having no compassionate bone in my body while your decision kisses a body goodbye to an abortionists scalpel or vacuum.

Where you even find the room to talk
.

Originally posted by Kerry_Knight
Wow, and if this thread were about being forced to pay for those, I'd be in that one opposing it too. Why you people think we should all pay for elective surgery when NO health insurance does is beyond any rationale.

If a guy wants his vas defrens snipped or tied in a knot, why should WE pay for it? I mean it would be a better alternative to killing some baby but those kind of guys don't have much success getting woman pregnant.

Yeah it would be nice if guys who sleep around lke that would do us all a favor and get a vasectomy but not many do and none that I know of.

It is also true they don't have a compelling reason like being pregnant to get such an elective surgery no more than woman do to get there tubes tied when this would solve many problems associated.

No what happens is they don't want to even when it's free so they do it when a life is at stake and the only one they care about at that time is their own and the one they care the least about is the one that dies.

It's a little hard to garner any sympathy for someone like that much less finance their way out of the whole mess. They don't care about the life lost enough think they would give a rats ass about anyone else, so why should we care about them?
[edit on 12-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Unfortunately, I belive that government-run healthcare (at least in the US) will eventually lead to restrictions on reproduction. Male vasectomies would be the easiest to perform at the onset of puberty.

Is it too hard to make the leap that signing over healthcare decisions to the government will open the floodgates for them to tell us what we can do with our bodies?

Originally posted by canadianmouse


My statement is very rational. To me its a fetus both ways. I am trying to help you because you keep stating it is a child. To me it isn't a child until it is born. But when the fetus is wanted and someone kills the mother killing off the life supply of the fetus then it is murder. When a mother goes and aborts the fetus it is an abortion. The fetus can not live without the womb. Therefore killing the mother stops the fetus from surviving.

There is nothing illogical about that. If you don't understand what I am saying, I would be more then happy to write in more basic terms.

No, hot sauce is right, you're simply speaking out both sides of your mouth pal, semantics are sounds we utter that get distingushed by their definition and you want to define a child whose stage of life being the fetal stage, means that is not a a human life in there. You do this because it is easier to kill something not alive but last I checked, dead babies are usually given to mis carry and doctors don't abort the life of things that are dead already and they don't call survivors of an abortion a survivor for nothing

Originally posted by OhZone

And you too, take it upon yourself to decide which life is worth more.

No WRONG again my friend, it is I that thinks BOTH of them are worth KEEPING ALIVE!

Ever heard of Child Abuse?

Yep and going by the child protective services websites philosophy, all woman having an abortion is tantamount to childabuse if not voluntary manslaughter

You have the right to Disagree all you want, but you have NO Right to tell that woman across town what she may or may not do.

I agree but I don't have to agree it is the right thing to do which is something you can't seem to understand. Another thing you don't seem to understand is your hypocricy. Don't be pontificating to me saying I have no right to tell someone what she may or may not do when that is EXACTLY what she is doing telling me, no, forcing me to pay for something I don't want to have any part of!

So you too would rather give up your hard earned money to pay for raising an unwanted child., or by your action cause the woman‘s life to be altered to her financial detriment.****.

How the hell do you know what kind of life she and that kid are going to have ohzone?? YOU can't POSSIBLY Know what she missed so don't bring up scenarios one would have to reverse time and compare the two situations before anyone could even say.

**Paid for Vasectomies would surely help to prevent the need for Abortion wouldn’t they?

Yes they are

Did you all know that most medical plans fund Viagra?

How is this relevant

lol for your information I am a woman. I don't know if calling me pal is suppose to make me feel threatened by your anger on this subject but all it is doing is making me laugh at you.

It does make you look like you have a lack of compassion to a woman who doesn't want to have a child. There is no reason to force a woman to have a baby. And if a woman can not afford an abortion that is what you would be doing. While having government funding programs for abortions, you are increasing the education about abortions and making sure it is available to all of those that need it. An abortion is much more important then a facelift. Neglect and abuse of a unwanted child is a real thing that is happening out there.


Also I am not talking from both sides of my mouth. Read my post again. It makes a lot of sense. A wanted fetus is wanted, and if terminated by another person against the mothers will is murder while an unwanted fetus is not wanted and terminated is an abortion.

Originally posted by canadianmouse
This is what happens with many unwanted children. Women that can't afford an abortion could go ahead and put the child up for adoption but do you know how many minority children really get adopted? A lot end up staying in the system and ending up alone.

Sorry man. that dog won't hunt.

Do you know how many of those minority children that grew up in foster homes all their lives would tell anyone to go to hell for saying they should of been killed the day they were born? Do you think they are bitching about that missed opportunity their mother had when she was pregnant with them? Sorry, this is just another silly argument

If a woman chooses to keep a unwanted baby because they couldn't afford an abortion, then they could end up abused or neglected. Lets not fail these children, there is enough abused and neglected children in the world.

They could end up the President of the United States too, as Obama came from very similar circumstances and is a minority so whats your point. How does your grim and dim crystal ball for all these children prove they are not worth living just because you assume they are going to have a bad future on drugs while their mom is locked up for child abuse or what ever the crystal ball says.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

Originally posted by canadianmouse
A wanted fetus is wanted, and if terminated by another person against the mothers will is murder while an unwanted fetus is not wanted and terminated is an abortion.

I'd hate to be the fetus in either one of those scenarios.

Murdered or unloved....what a grim picture.

You just have to love how the semantics of LAW have permeated the HEARTS of those who claim to have all the answers.

Originally posted by canadianmouse

lol for your information I am a woman.

I didn't ask but what's your point pal?

I don't know if calling me pal is suppose to make me feel threatened by your anger on this subject but all it is doing is making me laugh at you.

I am glad I provided the comical relief you so desperately needed

Anyone with the concience to kill their own son or daughter merely because it would cramp her style is not going to be much influence on appealing to me about Government funded programs they think I am going to believe they give a rats ass about such as abused children.

Now all of a sudden I am supposed to believe you care about that, sorry I just don't buy it, not from you nor do I think someone of your concience is threatened for calling them a pal. I could have prefaced my post with "man" or "woman", "dude" or "mate" or another version of the one I chose "friend" but I chose pal, sorry to be convinced that threatened you, it wasn't meant to. But it does make an nice allegation for a violation of T&C's if you can swing it eh?

Also I am not talking from both sides of my mouth. Read my post again. It makes a lot of sense. A wanted fetus is wanted,

Yeah I get it when a woman has a miss carriage they say "I Lost the BABY" to them, that is what it is and that is what it is to me also. But a woman who doesn't want a baby will KILL IT via abortion calling it a fetus.

Ill bet ya if that baby could have learned to talk befoe then, that baby would say, I don't care what you call me, just don't kill me mommy.

What it is called doesn't matter, what it actually is, DOES. Or should, but I guess when the words change, what it actually is changes too?

I guess if I call it a door stop she gives birth to something like a paper weight because you say its lead in there.

and if terminated by another person against the mothers will is murder while an unwanted fetus is not wanted and terminated is an abortion.

Yeah? Gee what do they call it is she can't decide untill the court date?

sheesh woman get real







[edit on 12-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]