World’s third largest ice store vanishing!

reply to post by HotSauce


Exactly. Before mankind roamed this planet Earth's atmosphere went through heating periods, followed by cooling periods, so on and so on. People dont seem to realize that our world is always changing, there is nothing we can do to stop it. People get so sentimental and sad about seeing the last remnants of the ice age melting. Don't you think that people felt the same way when the ice age struck in areas that were nice and warm before?

This is in asia, If you will recall from other threads the chinese are experimenting heavily with weather modification, causing unprecedented snow fall in bejing last week or the week before. All of that moisture must be coming from somewhere.

Originally posted by fleabit
Hoax? How can anyone call it a hoax?

Do you mean the theory behind global warming and climate change is a hoax? If you claim this, then you must also be able to prove why it is. That is, what exactly is causing the warming. Aside from a nebulous "Oh, the earth has done this before" response, can you give solid proof? If not, it's not a hoax, it's a theory.

And a good theory at that. We are doing something that we KNOW can create this effect. Ergo, it makes sense to at least theorize that we are in fact, responsible for the changes. To not do so is irresponsible.

To simply ignore it... to say "Oh.. it's probably an agenda for special interest groups," and then to shrug it off and see what happens, imo, is monumentally irresponsible and short-sighted. This stuff isn't fiction, it's happening, now. To ignore it because it doesn't mesh with your political beliefs is ignorant.

It’s a money making scheme and power grab. Your assumption that Gore or any other corrupt politician is looking out for you is naive. Why don’t you check Gores net worth before his “green agenda” and after?

Heres evidence from just a couple quick searches.

Now its your turn!

Scientists are telling us Mars is experiencing its own planetary warming. NASA says the Martian South Pole's ice cap has been shrinking for three summers in a row. Maybe Mars got its fever from earth. If so, I guess Jupiter's caught the same cold, because it's warming up too, like Pluto. I wonder what all those planets, dwarf planets and moons in our SOLAR system have in common. Hmmmm. Solar? (source: The Fred Thompson Report).
www.skepticalscience.com...


Al Gore's Inconvenient Loot

Gore's company, GIM was specifically established to take financial advantage of new technologies and solutions related to combating Global Warming. The Global Warming crowd has told us that just recently new science emerged confirming the alleged fact that Global Warming is man made. So, ask yourself, why is it that Gore set up his Green money machine three years ago back in 2004? Is it possible Gore knew what the science would say before it was out? And even if not, can an individual who stands to make millions from Global Warming really be trusted as an honest broker on that topic? Talk about giving the fox the keys to the hen penthouse.
www.riehlworldview.com...

I jumped from page one to page nine and the same childish argument is still going on

You see, that is the problem. The childish arguments I mean.

They did not stop using the term Global Warming for no reason. The proof CO2 plays any part is very weak and we have been cooling for a decade now. For that reason they changed to the term Climate Change.

What I don't see mentioned here is the nearly permanent "Brown Cloud" over China, caused by CHINA! Imagine that. China is causing its own problem but instead of discussing that people are here having a childish argument because they hate Americans? Absolute genius I'd say.

China is building coal fired plants as fast as they can and they and India have made it crystal clear they will not be getting involved in any Treaty whatsoever to do with climate.

The fact people are attacking the US instead of China on this issue proves it is about mindless hatred and has nothing to do with the subject. You folks may as well put on your white robes and hoods.

You should also be looking at the area from Vietnam through Laos and Thailand where they burn so much wood they also create permanent clouds of smoke.

The future threat to the climate lies in those area's, not in the US. Even if we destroy our entire economy with Cap and Trade it will do nothing to fix anything. As long as you give China and India a pass on this they will do more damage in a decade than we have done in our history. The fact nobody is discussing that proves your motives completely false.

I'll bet many of you are not even aware that while we have made great advancements in controlling pollution China and India have done nothing and become the true source of the problem. Our air keeps getting cleaner while they continue to increase their pollution output exponentially. Where is the criticism of China and India?

The other myth always perpetuated in these arguments is that anyone is opposed to clean air and water. We all want clean air and water but differ on how to go about it. Until the hatred and lies stop, we will get nowhere. Until the Al Gores of this world who will make many billions on Cap and Trade are stopped, nothing real will happen in regards to India and China. These confidence men want the attention directly on us so they can push us into a corner and empty our wallets. Gore wishes to redistribute the fruit of our labor into his pocket and he has Obama in the same pocket controlling him. This is what you should be talking about.

Betcha a virtual dollar that if Cap and Trade goes through, Obama gets a position on the Board of the companies that will make billions overnight. He will draw a huge salary and huge bonuses the rest of his life. He has already been bought. Nobody even disputes that Gore will make a billion or more the minute Cap and Trade passes.

Since this is a conspiracy board, you guys must be aware this story is in the news because they are starting the push to pass Cap and Trade? Not to clean the environment but to make Gore and the Banking Group that own the only two companies set up for this fabulously wealthy. Gore needs a bigger jet. Perhaps a 747 to fly around in with his environmental message and maybe add another 50,000 square foot wing to his home to house it?

Do you really think those glaciers melting went unnoticed until now? Have I got a bridge to sell you in China

Originally posted by wx4caster
i reccomend that everyone who believes in global warming go out and take a few climatology and meteorology classes so that they can get an understanding as to what exactly they are trying to say.

then take the knowledge that they gain from the classes and apply it to thier hypothesises and watch them crumble to logic.

And i recommend anyone thinking that burning fossil fuels will not have *any* effects on us to go into the garage, close it, and fire up their engines for half an hour or so.

Then report back to me.

The amount of barrels of oil we burn everyday is pretty staggering, and the energy, in form of heat is entering the atmosphere making "more weather"

There is a looming water crisis a lot of places on the earth, even America. Instead of constant bickering about who or what to blame, i think we should start discussing what to do. It is gonna affect us all, one way or another.

I live in a place that probably wont get affected by it, I could have the same stance that some of the other posters have "I don't give a damn" - but I do. People living in those areas didn't get to pick where they got born, just like i didn't get to.

Originally posted by j2000
reply to post by jdub297

 

You are absolutely 95% correct. The only other part of the equastion you missed, was that we demand cheap products and labor from them at whatever cost to the environment. Like I stated in earlier posts, we need to put heavy tariffs on those products and services from countries that do not follow at least the current standards that we have hear in the USA.

I have to disagree that we "demand" cheap products and labor from the Eastern and Asian polluters.

We accept them. There was a time when American consumers refused to buy poorly produced and inferior imports.

There was a time when "Made in Japan" was a joke or a smear! People laughed at imported "junk," and Toyotas and Datsuns were the choices of the poor college students who couldn't afford anything better.
No one would even think of buying goods "Assembled in Mexico."

By refusing to buy trash, American consumers forced foreign manufacturers to improve standards, even at higher costs.

The MARKET, not government intervention, demaded better quality products.

Americans, not American government, have to accept blame for the market we provide to polluters and junk dealers.

No Treaty, tariff, or regulation will do for us what we will not do for ourselves. (Isn't that a call for MORE government?)

jw

[edit on 9-11-2009 by jdub297]

Originally posted by K-Raz

There is a looming water crisis a lot of places on the earth, even America. Instead of constant bickering about who or what to blame, i think we should start discussing what to do. It is gonna affect us all, one way or another.

I vote for creating and releasing a super virus that spreads through the world killing billions of people. It would fix the “environmental issues” as well as creating a bunch of new jobs. Its just a thought.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by liveandletlive]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
No it is because people didn't understand the effects and assumed the entire planet was going to feel like the beach. This helps understand that the weather will get wacked out from warming, causing more snow in some, less rain in others, and cause chaos. Warming was too definititive.

And still the AGW fans claim CO2 causes waming and cooling.... Amazing... the IPCC, and the scaremongers claimed that the Earth's temperature would continue to increase, and instead we have been seen large fluctuations which happen NATURALLY during Climate Changes.

Since the AGW fans can not refute the fact that FLUCTUATIONS in climate have been occurring, and there has not been any exponential increase in warming, now they claim their AGW hoax ( Anthropogenic Global Warming) is the same as "Climate Change.... which is nothing more than a lie...

Originally posted by nixie_nox

You are talking without looking at any information whatsoever. I certainly hope your not referring to the past year. Scientists knew that this year was going to be cool and quiet. El nino is asleep. It is due to wake up at any time now,and it will start getting hotter and more chaotic then ever. This is the calm before the storm.

Obviously you are doing the same.... Appart from the fact that there has been no "exponential increase in warming" at least since the activity of the Sun has decreased to low levels since the end of 2005, there is the fact that the AGW scientists have been flip flopping, something they obviously learned from Al Gore and other politicians, they also claimed in 2008 that the Arctic would be free of ice by summer...several times they claimed this, and NEVER has this happened...

Then there is the fact that more recent studies found out that the surface warming has been caused by ocean warming, and not by CO2.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Are you determining this by looking at your local weather map?
..........
And I can keep going on with just information from the last decade.

And there have been more floodings than droughts, and floodings indicate a period of cooling, not warming....

Andhra Pradesh: Worst floods in 10,000 years

More than 50,000 displaced in Khartoum's "worst" floods -IFRC

Philippines hit by worst floods in 40 years

South of France sees worst floods in 50 years

Burkina Faso faces the worst flood for 90 years; Oxfam is responding

Southern Africa hit by worst floods in years

Nearly 100 dead in Namibia’s worst floods in decades

And all of those, and more just happened this year...

What is happening is simply NATURAL Cllimate Change where there are NATURAL fluctuations of the climate, and weather.

But it is nice to see how the AGW fans continue to try to revive their dead ideology.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by j2000
The Govt's idea of global warming, oops, I guess not it's global climate change, is complete BS.

CO2, that is the biggest case of horse S..t I have ever heard. I guess everyone forgot about the BS deal they pulled on the OZONE layer and jacked up freon prices. Then when it comes out that did have anything to do with it, did freon come down?? Hell no.

If you want to talk about pollution, that is another subject. China, India and the likes puke out all kinds of nasty stuff. The mountains around the L.A. base had little or no snow when you could not breath the air out there 30 years also.

China does more polluting then the USA ever even thought about. Heck, look at the crap they ship over here for sale. That is why it's so cheap, is that it has no regulation.

You want to fix problems, here is a solution.
Mandate that any item imported into the USA has to be made with the same restrictions that we have here from the EPA. This will make them clean up thier act, raise the prices to a level where we can bring the jobs back here and compete.

This give all sides of the problem a plus.
But don't slap the US people up with this crap without making everyone follow the same. That is why we have no jobs that make anything anymore.

The problem with you lefties, is that you only want to cure your problems, instead of looking at the big picture.

There is no "freon" in coolant, but there was chlorine, which is very bad news for the ozone layer, so they banned the use of chlorine in coolant. The good news was that the ozone layer mended itself faster than we thought possible.

And yes, i have worked with industrial cooling.

sorry that wasn't a reply to l&ll

[edit on 9-11-2009 by genius/idoit]

It's beginning to look a lot like I was right

reply to post by loam Hey! Mr. altruistic you should have named
your thread how can we help the thirsty Tibetans.Know why you didn't? replies; 0 flags; even less

and so were you

I take it your avatar and nic are a bit like medical warning bracelets.

Beware Genius at work

edit ; Looks like you've been here before

[edit on 9-11-2009 by genius/idoit]

*** ATTENTION ***

Stop discussing one another and get back on topic please.

reply to post by Blaine91555

What I don't see mentioned here is the nearly permanent "Brown Cloud" over China, caused by CHINA! Imagine that. China is causing its own problem but instead of discussing that people are here having a childish argument because they hate Americans? Absolute genius I'd say.
...

The fact people are attacking the US instead of China on this issue proves it is about mindless hatred and has nothing to do with the subject. You folks may as well put on your white robes and hoods.

You should also be looking at the area from Vietnam through Laos and Thailand where they burn so much wood they also create permanent clouds of smoke.

Too bad you "jumped" past page 8, or you would've seen the post and links I provided outlining India and China's responsibility for the South Asia "black carbon" and the "Indo-Asian haze" that are CONFIRMED causes of the Tibetan Plateau problems, including water distribution.

The research, going back to before the existence of the IPCC, has been known but suppressed in favor of hitting up the West for $$$$.

See the post here: post by jdub297

deny ignorance

jw

reply to post by Blaine91555




That button can come in real handy.

It's not all exactly as you suggest.

jdub297, for example, responded to many of the issues in this thread quite nicely.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by loam]

I think the fact that this in a conspiracy site, people here should b looking into the conspiracy that will exist instead of rehashing old stuff that won't change. The big problem here is that this area is going to be somewhat short of water. Water as we know it the main building block of life. The multitudes of people who life in this area are going to have to move to adapt. Just where are they going to go? Think about the fact that we are worried about overpopulation right now. The Earth itself isn't totally overpopulated, but the life sustaining areas are. There is plenty of land in the desert. Land near the water seems to be a bit more scarce. If you had to find a place to move 100 million people, where would you put them? These are the things that cause true wars. Forget about war for oil. Start thinking about land acquisition. If that doesn't scare you, you aren't paying attention.

reply to post by network dude


Yes, there have been wars in the past because of Climate Change, which moves resources to different areas, and this will happen once again whether people want it to or not.

Climate Change, meanwhile some areas ice volume is decreasing, in other areas ice volume is increasing.

People will have to adapt, like humans have been doing for thousands of years.

This is not the first time that the climate has changed affecting mankind, and it is not going to be the last time that it happens either.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

yes the world is chancing as it does all the times... and no dollar /euro/ore yen cannot stop it...

stop moaning and make a setup for an other way of living..

remember the sibearian mammoths were frozen alive and eating...
i cant remember there was so much idustrie ore cars then...:-)

reply to post by jdub297


A call for more Govt? Well, no.
It's a call for the Govt to do what they are Constitutionally required to do. Regulate commerce. Regulate imports.

Yes, like I said, it's the peoples fault for buying cheap junk and letting the Govt. think that Made in the USA was not important. But when the Govt makes it too easy for imports to put products made here out of business, they are not do thier job.

This is how the Corp. coruption some into play.

argghh I stink at quoting quotes.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by nixie_nox
No it is because people didn't understand the effects and assumed the entire planet was going to feel like the beach. This helps understand that the weather will get wacked out from warming, causing more snow in some, less rain in others, and cause chaos. Warming was too definititive.

And still the AGW fans claim CO2 causes waming and cooling.... Amazing... the IPCC, and the scaremongers claimed that the Earth's temperature would continue to increase, and instead we have been seen large fluctuations which happen NATURALLY during Climate Changes.

Since the AGW fans can not refute the fact that FLUCTUATIONS in climate have been occurring, and there has not been any exponential increase in warming, now they claim their AGW hoax ( Anthropogenic Global Warming) is the same as "Climate Change.... which is nothing more than a lie...

What climate change are we supposed to be having? This is supposed to be a steady period.

And funny how the skeptics always tout that it is natural, yet no one person has yet been able to explain to me what is driving the natural cycles.

Originally posted by nixie_nox

You are talking without looking at any information whatsoever. I certainly hope your not referring to the past year. Scientists knew that this year was going to be cool and quiet. El nino is asleep. It is due to wake up at any time now,and it will start getting hotter and more chaotic then ever. This is the calm before the storm.

Obviously you are doing the same.... Appart from the fact that there has been no "exponential increase in warming" at least since the activity of the Sun has decreased to low levels since the end of 2005, there is the fact that the AGW scientists have been flip flopping, something they obviously learned from Al Gore and other politicians, they also claimed in 2008 that the Arctic would be free of ice by summer...several times they claimed this, and NEVER has this happened...

Then there is the fact that more recent studies found out that the surface warming has been caused by ocean warming, and not by CO2.


What studies have shown is that if these events were occurring naturally, as either a precursor or following an ice age, the Co2 levels rise or fall AFTER the the thawing and warming do. It is a RESULT of the changes, that the CO2 is released by the oceans, not the cause.

So there should be no reason Co2 should be released before teh warming period.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Are you determining this by looking at your local weather map?
..........
And I can keep going on with just information from the last decade.

And there have been more floodings than droughts, and floodings indicate a period of cooling, not warming....

Andhra Pradesh: Worst floods in 10,000 years

More than 50,000 displaced in Khartoum's "worst" floods -IFRC

Philippines hit by worst floods in 40 years

South of France sees worst floods in 50 years

Burkina Faso faces the worst flood for 90 years; Oxfam is responding

Southern Africa hit by worst floods in years

Nearly 100 dead in Namibia’s worst floods in decades

And all of those, and more just happened this year...

I said decade for a reason. One of my articles is from 2002. But if the Earth isn't warming? Or even cooling, then why would all of these events happen in the past year? There shouldn't be anything according to the skeptics.

What is happening is simply NATURAL Cllimate Change where there are NATURAL fluctuations of the climate, and weather.

Once again, this natural cycle that no one on ATS can explain.

But it is nice to see how the AGW fans continue to try to revive their dead ideology.


Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.



So let me get this straight, we don't have global warming or change or whatever you want to nitpick on, because we have a solar minimum, Al Gore but there is some warming due to unknown natural cycles, and yet there is CO2 output from the ocean?

Sooo.... there is warming but there isn't warming. It is caused by the sun, the ocean, and Earth's natural cycles.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by nixie_nox]

reply to post by jdub297


My apologies for that.

I'm at work and trying to post and read between phone calls. I should have read the whole thread.