So you still believe the official story?

Originally posted by Wolfpack 51
The question was "Do you believe the official story?".

Absolutely not.

I have been on this site for years now. And the more I read and reread, the more convinced I am we do not have the truth.

Tonight I was watching the history channel on a rerun on the 911 conspiracy. They tried to present it as tit for tat.

The "Expert" testimony and rebuttal was very in effective in regards to "proving" their side. It was less convincing than the conspiracy side.

No one knows why the towers fell, no one. The fact that no one knows should be enough to really investigate this scientifically to come up with real presentable explanations. All either side has is theory's. Again, this should be the reason to doubt the official story, it can not be proven.

Just as with the pentagon incident, these "Experts" stated the reason for a 16 foot near perfectly round hole several rings into the reinforced pentagon walls was a perpetual "ball of fire". They said the plane vaporized and it was this ball of fire that punched holes through the building.

They said flight 93 had little wreckage because it hit the ground at near the "speed of sound".

You don't have to believe in the tales about the conspiracy to believe that we do not have the truth. The fact that no one can say with any certainty beyond a reasonable doubt what actually happened in total on 911 leaves reason to QUESTION.

Is it really to much to desire to know the truth, to get answers to questions that could help keep this from happening again?

It amazes me at the anger this topic generates. If I had lost a friend or family member in this event, I would want to know the truth. I would not want to simply accept a story that has holes in it and go on about my life. We as Americans deserve to know the whole truth, and it is apparent we have not gotten it.

If there is one question left unanswered, then this is not a closed case. Everyone should simply agree the whole truth is not known, and work in harmaony to present facts, study them, debunk any that are false, and further investigate those that cannot be answered. In unison the truth can be found more accurately and credibly than with all the hostile disagreement.

Someone should give you a medal!

Best post I have seen regarding 9/11 and why there should be a new Investigation.


My biggest problem with the Truth Movement, is there problem to jump to conclusion, before a real conclusion can be actually made.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by SirPatrickHenry]

[edit on 17-11-2009 by SirPatrickHenry]

reply to post by The_Zomar


I am absolutely certain you can be detained for 6.5 hours while you are searched for drugs without being charged, I am absolutely certain they could do that before 911. So even if they mentioned the patriot act, its not a right you had pre 911.

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by The_Zomar

 

I am absolutely certain you can be detained for 6.5 hours while you are searched for drugs without being charged, I am absolutely certain they could do that before 911. So even if they mentioned the patriot act, its not a right you had pre 911.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

And what your talking about, has to come with a reasonable belief that there is drugs. That's a pretty loose comparison.

Originally posted by SirPatrickHenry

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by The_Zomar

 

I am absolutely certain you can be detained for 6.5 hours while you are searched for drugs without being charged, I am absolutely certain they could do that before 911. So even if they mentioned the patriot act, its not a right you had pre 911.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

And what your talking about, has to come with a reasonable belief that there is drugs. That's a pretty loose comparison.

Their reasonable belief that I had drugs in my car is because we all had piercings and tattoos. They roared out "TAKE OFF YOUR GLASSES, CHEECH" (Does Cheech even wear sunglasses?) but anyways... Theres no way they would have been able to retina scan us, finger print us, and interrogate us UNLESS they found drugs. HOWEVER, No-one in the car was or is a drug user. Its absolutely RIDICULOUS that someone could say that we lost no freedoms. Thats just absurd, even main stream media will tell you that much. someone needs to pry open their closed eyes for half a second.

I do agree that it is terrible to disallow a new investigation for the families that want the truth. Any decent, innocent human being would let them have one.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Their reasonable belief that I had drugs in my car is because we all had piercings and tattoos. They roared out "TAKE OFF YOUR GLASSES, CHEECH" (Does Cheech even wear sunglasses?) but anyways... Theres no way they would have been able to retina scan us, finger print us, and interrogate us UNLESS they found drugs. HOWEVER, No-one in the car was or is a drug user. Its absolutely RIDICULOUS that someone could say that we lost no freedoms. Thats just absurd, even main stream media will tell you that much. someone needs to pry open their closed eyes for half a second.

Rubbish. You weren't caught up in any secret fascist movement. You were caught up in the ongoing drug war. You clearly matched or were close to matching the typical pattern of behavior of the kinds of drug smugglers the border patrol were used to, and you almost certainly stumbled into an area of heightened alert where people smuggling drugs into Canada would cross. You might as well have walked up to a den of hungry wolves wearing a caribou suit.

True story- two weeks ago, there was a rash of burglaries in my town, and one eyewitness noticed that a light brown Volvo station wagon was driving around acting suspiciously. I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY GUARANTEE that the cops were stopping every Volvo station wagon they came across that remotely resembled light brown, and guess what- the driver of one of the light brown Volvo station wagons they stopped *was* responsible for the robberies. The vehicle being chock full of stolen items proved it. In the meantime, there were no doubt a number of additional, innocent people driving other Volvo station wagons who were wondering why the cops suddenly kept stopping them.

I'm not saying their approach wasn't overly zealous. I'm saying it was your own behavior that got you on their radar, or to be more precise, the drug smugglers are giving the rest of you tattooed, pierced people a bad reputation. Let's face it, if tattooed, pierced people were all known for volunteering for charity work and helping little old ladies across the street, the border patrol would never have even looked at you twice.

Using this as a supposed example of some secret plot to take over the world is being unrealistic.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


So its ok to discriminate then? I guess so because the warehouse I was in was FULL of mexicans and people wearing turbans. They were all illegal immigrants and terrorists in your mind.

Stay on topic and stop trying to derail the tread, dave.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
[

True story- two weeks ago

Seriously Dave ???? Seriously ?

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

So its ok to discriminate then? I guess so because the warehouse I was in was FULL of mexicans and people wearing turbans. They were all illegal immigrants and terrorists in your mind.

One thing I have learned is : If you have a black Mustang with tinted windows it doesn't matter if you have tat's, piercings, turbans, or look like Aunt Bea... you are getting stopped...a lot.

Just fits the profile..like it or not.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by Taxi-Driver]

Originally posted by Jackboot.Heel
Of course I don't. Nobody with some substance in their skull is going to believe the official 'truth' without precondition. Do I buy into most conspiracies? No. Do I think that 9/11 was a very peculiar day when viewed as a larger picture? Naturally.

Of course it was "peculiar"....unless you can find 2 other skyscrapers that were a "tube in tube" design hit by an equivalent airplane.

The only amazing thing was that the towers stood as long as they did.

Originally posted by SirPatrickHenry

Seriously Dave ???? Seriously ?

Yes, it is seriously a true story. I can confirm it is a true story becuase mine was one of the houses that was broken into, I was one of two people that reported a light brown Volvo station wagon was behaving suspiciously in town, and I know the light brown Volvo station wagon was involved in the robberies becuase the police asked me to come down to the station to identify an impounded light brown Volvo station wagon after it had been stopped and was found to contain a lot of stolen items, some of which I was also able to ID as being mine. I didn't care to mention this becuase it's off-topic, but hey, you asked.

The point is, this guy being hassled by the border patrol isn't living in a bubble sealed off from everyone else; there's all sorts of things going on in the rest of the world that he may or may not be aware of, and that the rush to judgement by someone (particularly someone who's known to be anti-establishment) that it's all some sign of a secret fascist movement simply becuase he blundered into a situation he wasn't aware of makes it more of a Rorschach test for his own outlook on life, than any impartial observation of the facts.

Come to think of it, I suppose it really IS on-topic to why conspiracy theorists subscribe to these "inside job" plots, after all, becuase that's the type of person who'd be going to those damned fool conspiracy web sites to begin with.

Originally posted by terran99


The only amazing thing was that the towers stood as long as they did.

If only the towers were designed/constructed to withstand commercial jet liners hitting them..... oh wait.

Originally posted by Seventh

Originally posted by terran99


The only amazing thing was that the towers stood as long as they did.

If only the towers were designed/constructed to withstand commercial jet liners hitting them..... oh wait.

They weren't.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
So its ok to discriminate then? I guess so because the warehouse I was in was FULL of mexicans and people wearing turbans. They were all illegal immigrants and terrorists in your mind.

I can't comment on the mexicans or the people wearing turbans. I am only going by YOUR description of what happened to YOU, that the Border Patrol assumed you were carrying drugs, and that they practically disassembled your car looking for hidden drug stashes. That's a heck of a lot more intricate and involved than simple discrimination, and it's incorrect to use this as any sign of some secret fascist takeover of the world. You matched the profile of drug smugglers, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Just out of curiosity, just what are all your tats of, anyway? If any of them said, "MS-13" or "Los Solidos" then you really WERE walking up to a den of hungry wolves wearing a caribou suit.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Come to think of it, I suppose it really IS on-topic to why conspiracy theorists subscribe to these "inside job" plots, after all, becuase that's the type of person who'd be going to those damned fool conspiracy web sites to begin with.

Okay Dave, to save us the bother of looking for answers elsewhere, i`ll leave it down to you, as this is obviously not a conspiracy then the answers to these questions will be easy......

1). The outer steel sections were fixed together using a half bond system, why do photographs taken from the initial collapse and after, clearly show these sections having straight ends.......

How they were constructed...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/21e256b13c0c.jpg[/atsimg]

How they fell.......
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c30fdc7f9899.jpg[/atsimg]

2). What caused the tremors that were registered 14 seconds before the 1st impact (North tower), and 17 seconds before the second impact (South tower), it`s general consensus that planes hitting towers 1000 feet above ground level, that are constructed to absorb energy will have very little if any at all shockwave left, once it reaches ground level........

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cac1335f9a6d.jpg[/atsimg]

3). The Bin Laden tape, why would Bin Laden speak about being involved and the original ringleader of 9/11, with no mention whatsoever of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and explain please these differences........

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bdaf1dd312fc.jpg[/atsimg]

I will leave it to you to give us the answers to these *irrational* aspects, that have us running to www.tinfoilhat9/11.com for the truth.

When you are done I have a few more.

Cheers Dave and thx in advance.

Originally posted by hooper

They weren't.

You are right, they were not designed for a jet hitting them, but a fleet.



Here`s a cloth for your face, wipe that egg off.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

the rush to judgement by someone (particularly someone who's known to be anti-establishment) that it's all some sign of a secret fascist movement.

Can you show me where I said its a sign of a secret fascist movement? I said they would be unable to do that before the patriot act (legally). You lose credibility every time you open your mouth.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Come to think of it, I suppose it really IS on-topic to why conspiracy theorists subscribe to these "inside job" plots, after all, becuase that's the type of person who'd be going to those damned fool conspiracy web sites to begin with.

You *do* know your at Abovetopsecret.com right? You know, the largest conspiracy site on the internet?


On topic though, You have only denied the evidence people post instead of actually using any real evidence to counter it. By now I'm sure no-one believes anything you say. I'm asking you once again to please provide to the thread instead of trying to derail it.

PS: My tattoos are of a weasel, a microphone, a businessman with 6 eyes, a trumpet, etc... real dangerous.

reply to post by Seventh


You mention the straight "cuts" on the exterior columns as they fall. You forget to mention the fact that at the mechanical floors, all the exterior columns where not staggered like those above and below. It is mentioned in the design and in the FEMA report as well.

Its on page 3, second paragraph:
www.fema.gov...

It could very well explain that issue.

The mechanical floors are seen here as the gray bands:


After a little digging, the mechanical floors were found on: floors 7–8, 41–42, 75–76, and 108–109.



So it is here the splices were all even, which would allow for the columns to appear as if they have been "cut". and dont forget the Skylobbies!

[edit on 11/19/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


also, they were not "half bonds" but they were staggered so that 1/3 of each column tree would be offset from the other. i hope this has cleared up some of your questions.

Originally posted by Seventh

1). The outer steel sections were fixed together using a half bond system, why do photographs taken from the initial collapse and after, clearly show these sections having straight ends.......

Your photos are deliberately misleading. The sections clearly show they did NOT have straight ends, but had jagged sections protruding past the red line drawn over them. That tells me right there that they weren't manufactured that way. They were broken that way.

2). What caused the tremors that were registered 14 seconds before the 1st impact (North tower), and 17 seconds before the second impact (South tower), it`s general consensus that planes hitting towers 1000 feet above ground level, that are constructed to absorb energy will have very little if any at all shockwave left, once it reaches ground level........

Let me answer your question with another question- what caused all 500,000 people in lower Manhattan (and parts of New Jersey) to not notice a tremor so powerful that it registered in seismic stations miles away, fourteen and seconds before the towers were hit?

The most obvious answer- the tremors recorded *were* from the impact of the plances, and the 14/17 second difference is a timing error of some type. Innuendo of impropriety is still innuendo.

3). The Bin Laden tape, why would Bin Laden speak about being involved and the original ringleader of 9/11, with no mention whatsoever of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and explain please these differences........

Those tapes were retrieved from Afghanistan, with an unknown chain of custody, so for all I know someone in Afghanistan probably had an uncle that kinda sorta looked like Bin Laden and made a home movie to sell to gullible CIA agents. I myself rely on the bin Laden public statement released on Al Jazeera, where he admitted his involvement-

Bin Laden admits involvement on Al Jazeera

Al Jazeera is a favorite media outlet for Al Qaida, so they certainly have their own methods of determining authenticity. The fact that Al Qaida never came forward to denounce the broadcast shows right there they are not contesting it. Plus, Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir personally interviewed Bin Laden shortly after the attack and he all but admitted he had inside information on the attacks.

Hamid Mir interview with Osama Bin Laden

Hamid Mir himself has said he believes OBL is behind the attacks. Tell me, have *you* ever met and talked to Osama Bin Laden face to face, as he did?

Originally posted by The_Zomar
Can you show me where I said its a sign of a secret fascist movement? I said they would be unable to do that before the patriot act (legally).

No, YOU said (and I quote)

"I was detained by the department of homeland security for essentially taking a wrong turn. We came to the border and instead of being aloud to turn around and STAY IN AMERICA (we asked, they wouldn't let us) We were forced to drive our escorted car into a garage where it was torn apart from being searched while we had to sit in a glass box and prove who we are, spell our last name forwards, backwards, and explain our stories separately. Thumb printed, retna scanned, everything short of the rubber glove. One of us was interrogated because his liscense said he was 2 inches taller than he actually is.

The DHS specifically quoted the patriot act."

I absolutely, positively, guarantee that yes, the guys at the border would have stopped you and given you the once-over if they had suspected you were smuggling drugs before the Patriot act came out becuase the war on drugs was going on for decades before the 9/11 attack.

You lose credibility every time you open your mouth.

Oh, rubbish. You never believed I ever did have credibility, and the reason why is obvious- to you, credibility has nothing to do with the source, and everything to do with whether or not it happens to agree with what you want to believe.