So you still believe the official story?

Originally posted by sharps
I'm very surprised that 9/11 being an inside job is even up for debate anymore. Any averagely intelligent person who does the research cannot fail to come to the same conclusion. The evidence is overwhelming, and I for one no longer see the need to justifiy that position. At this stage of the game, anyone on this forum who is in denial, can remain in denial as far as I'm concerned.

Denying that 9/11 was an inside job is merely a result of either A) stupidity, B) laziness, or C) psychological manipulation.

Insert evidence here:
blah
blah
blah
blah

Come on lads and lassies, lets not even waste our breath on these numpties, its just a distraction. Concentrate your efforts where they count.

I agree with this post 100%. Even after all the facts are given, they will still just deny it and say its not true. 6 of the 10 commissioners say its a giant cover up. The people who WROTE the official story say its a cover up, yet the brainwashed minions continue to believe it. They are the kind of people that would lose their breath and pass out from seeing their hero hannity in real life.

As for money... Anything makes money no matter what it is.

Insurance policies, books, even TV shows allows the MSM and the government as well as private entities to profit.

As for alex jones, you can buy his movies which supports his radio show (entertainment) or you can go to where he says you can watch them on youtube for free.

Brainwasheddave (Goodoldave) is severely brainwashed, its a wonder he even found this site. I would tell him theres other place for sheep where he wouldn't have to argue against irrefutable facts but he wouldn't believe me.

Of course I don't. Nobody with some substance in their skull is going to believe the official 'truth' without precondition. Do I buy into most conspiracies? No. Do I think that 9/11 was a very peculiar day when viewed as a larger picture? Naturally.

Is anyone going to answer the question below? I'd really, really, like to know as I have follow-up questions.

I have a question; perhaps it's been asked already (don't have enough time to go through 8 threads right now); if the 9/11 planning took place for 2 1/2 years before execution, is Bill Clinton culpable as well? What role did Bill play?

Originally posted by jprophet420
So you're saying loose changes revisions are motivated by financial gain? Did the entities involved in the government investigations receive monetary compensation for their work?

Bad analogy. Some of them would have been paid becuase they had been specifically contracted to examine why the towers collapsed, while others would be free becuase they wanted a technical report in their respective field published I.E. the report by MIT engineer Thomas Eagar. Nonetheless, most if not all their work is completely and legally free to you and me. You can find both the 9/11 commission report AND the MIT report online, and I'll be more than happy to show you links to them.

I say this is a bad analogy becuase the conspiracy theorists claim to be merely wanting to learn the truth behind the 9/11 attack, but THEIR approach is almost uniformly, "everything you know is false, and we'll tell you 'the truth' if you give us your money". According to them, this is supposed to be a public service warning of mass murder and an explanation who was responsible...which we're supposed to pay for. Imagine Paul Revere riding around, and instead of yelling THE REDCOATS ARE COMING, he actually yelled SOMETHING BAD IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IT IS FOR $19.95 PLUS I HAVE A WONDERFUL SELECTION OF T-SHIRTS, BASEBALL CAPS, ETC.

What's more, they're not even coming from experts in the respective fields- one guy is a college kid making internet videos in his dorm room, another is a professor of religious studies, and another guy is an economist. Oh yeah, let's not forget the guy who runs a radio talk show over the Internet. Sorry, but "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" didn't work on Dorothy and it certainly isn't going to work on me.

Let's conduct a "who is BSing who contest" right now. I will post a link to a free downloadable copy of the 9/11 commission report, in it's entirety, while YOU post a link to a free downloadable copy of any of David Ray Griffin's books in its entirety. Agreed?

reply to post by bowlbyville

Thanks for your question!
Unfortunately I won't answer any more questions.
You seen what happened last time I tried!
Some take this way too personal, for some reason!
Almost like they were personally threatened or something....
Better to just deny, attack and deflect. Same-o, same-o.

Besides, there are too many unanswered questions already.
Isnt asking them fun enough?
Why even ask them in the first place anyway?

Nope, the gubmint is always on my side....
and would never do anything questionable.
I'm certainly not going to ask them about it either.
I'll just go ahead and believe the OS.
That's my story and I'm a stickin' to it!


[edit on 15-11-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by bowlbyville
I have a question; perhaps it's been asked already (don't have enough time to go through 8 threads right now); if the 9/11 planning took place for 2 1/2 years before execution, is Bill Clinton culpable as well? What role did Bill play?

Ever since Bill Clinton came forward squarely against the 9/11 conspiracy bunch...

Bill Clinton says 9/11 conspiracy theorists are idiots

...they've been accusing him of being part of the 9/11 conspiracy and/or as well, so yes, they believe he is culpable. The conspiracy people are so much in love with their stories of secret gov't "inside job" plots that they believe anything that refutes them is by default part of the conspiracy as well.

Thanks for the response.

See, I figure that Bill Clinton must have been in on the 9/11 stuff because he put up that firewall between the CIA and the FBI so that they couldn't share information...and now that Bill is very, very wealthy, I figure it must be the $$$ that came from 9/11. I just never saw anyone put the pieces together so I could follow it.

But then I also wonder, was it absolutely necessary for GWB to win the Presidency? Would 9/11 have happened if Al Gore was the President instead? I ask that because if it was absolutely necessary for GWB to be the President, then were 5 members of the Supreme Court also part of the 9/11 conspiracy?

See where I'm going?

reply to post by bowlbyville

The peeps that are meant to be president, will be.
Whatever that takes.

Ooops, I just answered a question again!
Damn fool website anyway!

[edit on 15-11-2009 by dodadoom]

Ahhh.....I'm lost again; so we're saying that both Bill & George had nothing to do with 9/11? They were in the dark?

What about the CIA / FBI firewall thing; was there anyone in the Clinton administration that orchestrated it in order to assist 9/11 or was that mere coincidence?

reply to post by dodadoom


Exactly! That is how I feel, now that I have discovered most of the truth.
I see the United States slipping away every day, economically, job lost, foreclosures, Real state market, Healthcare, Import & Export, Stock market, Federal Reserve printing worthless monies, the war deficit on an endless wars, big corporations shipping most of our work oversea or out sourcing our jobs to foreign labor in our country on work visa’s.
Most of our manufacturing has sold out to foreign countries, what’s left not everyone can be a lawyer or a doctor. People are grown desperate and it appears a large number of them are joining the military to get help with their education and to support their families.
What I find disturbing is our military has become one of the biggest industries in the world.

As of March 31, 2008, U.S. armed forces were stationed at more than 820 installations in at least 39 countries.[18] Some of the largest contingents are the 142,000 military personnel in Iraq, the 56,200 in Germany, the 33,122 in Japan, 28,500 in Republic of Korea, 31,100 in Afghanistan and approximately 9,700 each in Italy and the United Kingdom. These numbers change frequently due to the regular recall and deployment of units.
Altogether, 84,488 military personnel are located in Europe, 154 in the former Soviet Union, 70,719 in East Asia and the Pacific, 7,850 in North Africa, the Near East, and South Asia, 2,727 are in sub-Saharan Africa with 2,043 in the Western Hemisphere excepting the United States itself.
[edit] Within the United States
Including U.S. territories and ships afloat within territorial waters
A total of 1,083,027 personnel are on active duty within the United States and its territories (including those afloat):[19] The vast majority, 883,430 of them, are stationed at various bases within the Contiguous United States. There are an additional 36,827 in Hawaii and 19,828 in Alaska. 90,218 are at sea while there are 2,970 in Guam and 137 in Puerto Rico.

en.wikipedia.org...

Which makes us the most powerful force on earth besides, the Federal Reserve and the British control over the euro. We are in a depression and Europe is in a bigger depression, most American don’t even relies we are in a depression that is because our mainstream media will not tell us the truth. We lost freedom of the Press when they sold out to corporatism and special interests.

It’s been proven that 60% of congresses are millionaires; their only interest is their bankroll, and how corporations can make bigger campaign contribution to them in favor of passing laws that benefit the big corporations and frankly just screwing the middle class and the poor. There is no one looking out for the little person any longer.

On 911 the whole world changed, our over seas policies changed and American laws were changed. We witness the trampling of the Constitution over a false flag operation and a release of draconian laws over the people in the United States.

What I find so amazing is how well our government and military used the media to sell the OS, even I bought into it for a while. Back then, I allowed television to keep me informed and never question it. Bad mistake on my part. When I started researching the events of 911 I became very angry, I relies things were not what they appear to be. The more I dug the dirtier it got, I am convince 911 was a false flag operation I have seen enough verifiable creditable evidences that proves it.

I have yet to see one internet Troll or OS believer ever say why they believe in the OS and what creditable scientific evidences convinced them the OS is true. In every one of these 911 threads, most of the OS supporters do nothing but ridicule and scoff at credible evidences, or are so patriotic or so loyal to the government and military that their blind faith will not allow them to think outside the box, the corporate media box that is.

Anyone who still believes in the OS has never researched it properly and has no business in ridiculing others who have tried to show the lies the inconstancies and the un- supported sciences that has been used to convince them of these lies. I know there is a lot of disinformation out on the internet it is no different that mainstream media, but not every web site about 911 is disinformation. People who make those claims are disinformationist. I do support your knowledge in your above post and it is a fact of what you have stated.

The question was "Do you believe the official story?".

Absolutely not.

I have been on this site for years now. And the more I read and reread, the more convinced I am we do not have the truth.

Tonight I was watching the history channel on a rerun on the 911 conspiracy. They tried to present it as tit for tat.

The "Expert" testimony and rebuttal was very in effective in regards to "proving" their side. It was less convincing than the conspiracy side.

No one knows why the towers fell, no one. The fact that no one knows should be enough to really investigate this scientifically to come up with real presentable explanations. All either side has is theory's. Again, this should be the reason to doubt the official story, it can not be proven.

Just as with the pentagon incident, these "Experts" stated the reason for a 16 foot near perfectly round hole several rings into the reinforced pentagon walls was a perpetual "ball of fire". They said the plane vaporized and it was this ball of fire that punched holes through the building.

They said flight 93 had little wreckage because it hit the ground at near the "speed of sound".

You don't have to believe in the tales about the conspiracy to believe that we do not have the truth. The fact that no one can say with any certainty beyond a reasonable doubt what actually happened in total on 911 leaves reason to QUESTION.

Is it really to much to desire to know the truth, to get answers to questions that could help keep this from happening again?

It amazes me at the anger this topic generates. If I had lost a friend or family member in this event, I would want to know the truth. I would not want to simply accept a story that has holes in it and go on about my life. We as Americans deserve to know the whole truth, and it is apparent we have not gotten it.

If there is one question left unanswered, then this is not a closed case. Everyone should simply agree the whole truth is not known, and work in harmaony to present facts, study them, debunk any that are false, and further investigate those that cannot be answered. In unison the truth can be found more accurately and credibly than with all the hostile disagreement.

Has anyone established a flow-chart of how the conspiracy pieces fit together?

I hear a lot of stuff about "GWB did it for oil" or "the guy who owned the twin towers was in on it" or "it was all for Halliburton" or “the military-industrial complex was behind it” or "the Israelis were responsible" and the list goes on and on and on.

You have to admit that the “conspiracies” are too far and wide to make much sense. Some people who post are adamant that there were no Arab Muslims on board the aircraft…it just gets to the point where it’s preposterous.

I suggest the flow-chart method, with documented revisions, in order to pull fact from fiction. You can also assign “probabilities” to aspects of the theory in case people are only “60% sure of one portion of the theory. If someone has done something along these lines, I’d like to see it.

reply to post by impressme

Thank you for the great reply!
And thanks for your experience with this.

I know people know they are stealing all the countries wealth.
It is this endless cycle of ups and downs, wars and deceit that fuel it.
The worse thing is we let them everytime and never even question it.
I think our forefathers would take away the keys if they could.
I talk to peole at work and they all agree on this.
The wealthy get wealthier and the working class get stepped on every time.
Until we stand up to tyranny, we deserve to live under it.

I noticed those were slightly dated numbers.
I just seen there is no shortage of army recruits now!
If you feed someone whos hungry, he will pack a gun for ya.
Welcome to the next phase of control.

And of course we will let it happen everytime.
We will believe the MSM every time without question.
And the ones who send out the warnng will get bashed.
Kinda like on here! Ya.

The worst part is they ridicule the very ones trying to help them.
If there were no one looking out for them, then what?
Imagine what kind of bs bailouts or something would be happening then?
And still nothing would happen anyway and we will probably be here
talking about that too.
I guess maybe when enough people lose something, it may change.
Miracles do happen sometimes. But do we deserve one, or not?

We had the entire world behind us until we invaded Iraq.
I feel we were duped by someone and it led to many deaths.
I will always feel patriotically dirty for that.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by jprophet420


Um, are you seriously asking that? That is very sloppy deflection friend.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Let's conduct a "who is BSing who contest" right now. I will post a link to a free downloadable copy of the 9/11 commission report, in it's entirety, while YOU post a link to a free downloadable copy of any of David Ray Griffin's books in its entirety. Agreed?

Federal Report vs. ...Private book?

Hmmmmmmmm.

How about this:
www.lastingnetworks.com...

The site is completely legal, because alex jones doesn't secure his films from mass production without his consent.

I already proved earlier in the thread that silverstein cashed in on the attacks, and all the defense contractors are making billions from the wars that in turn came from 9-11.

You have yet to explain the the lack of wing damage in the pentagon or even provide a video.

Alex jones could be even more wealthy than he already is if he wanted to. Real easily. Everyday people call into his show and tell him what he should do or what program he should start. He tells them to start their own site or program instead. A door to door salesmen doesn't convince others to sell the same thing. Your theory is terrible and factless.

There is no question in my mind as to whether or not the official story is true. It's not. There is way too much evidence to prove that something's not right, especially the obvious controlled demolitions that took down the towers. It's all too perfectly executed and convenient to be what the government claimed it was. That being said, I do have a valid question that I can't get over. Who planted the charges? I realize that the towers had all of this "maintenance" and "remodeling" going on and that the security system and power was turned off for periods of time, etc which would have provided time for people to rig the buildings before hand, but "how" they did it isn't what I'm asking. Who are these people? Somebody, no, many people knew before the fact that something big was going down. A perfectly executed demolition of not one, but three towers, is not an easy feat and it definitely wasn't accomplished by one man. This had to a be a crew of experts who knew exactly what they were doing plus they had to have time to do it. Taking down those three buildings like that would require a LOT of strategically placed explosives and would require considerable prep and placement time. There had to be a lot of people involved. How is it that every one of those people was so easily bought off, or had so little conscious as to let thousands die for a lie. You would think someone would come forward and say "I was involved." You would think someone would have gone to a bar at some point and told a friend or confided in a wife or other loved one who then came forward and exposed at least some of the truth. I can't get over how you can keep that big of a secret with that many people involved without someone cracking. Even if those involved were lied to in some way and didn't realize what they were getting into, the truth would have been pretty prevalent on 9/11/01. I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point and question clear enough. Does anyone know of or have any information from the source? It's really hard to believe that no one has dug up any one involved in the massive amount of coordination this job would have taken. Thanks for any input.

I say this is a bad analogy becuase the conspiracy theorists claim to be merely wanting to learn the truth behind the 9/11 attack, but THEIR approach is almost uniformly, "everything you know is false, and we'll tell you 'the truth' if you give us your money".

Again, the conspiracy theorists include everyone who believe the OS. I don't care if you accept it or not but by definition thats what it is. Anyway, since loose changes presentations were free, that makes this statement 100% inaccurate.

Now, back to the point made crystal clear by detractors, what did you lose again? I asked the question and when finally answered 2 posters came up with 2 separate ideas.

1. the loss of habius corpus.

This is supposed to only apply to terrorism. This is EXACTLY why I asked the person who had an ACTUAL experience what their lawyer said about it. If the rolex's came from some source linked to terrorism, I really don't see the problem. I can't see that as the case if the watches were purchased for one dollar and eighty cents as the poster said. If they were $180USD each I could totally see that. However, the important thing here is that the poster was engaged in felony fraud either way.

2. the loss of touchy feellly things. You never had the right t live without fear. Its not a God given right nor government given right.

I lost any trust in goverment once and for all.
To do the right thing.
To protect us, not stand down our air force, and
ignore all warning signs.

I lost my faith in our future.
I lost the right to protest unless provided a proper
roped off adjacent area.

I lost my right to be free in my own home without fear.
*I lost the right to have privacy.
I lost the right to not be monitored 24 hours a day.*

None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with the patriot act or 911 except the last 2, which are the same thing reworded.

Did that ACTUALLY happen to you or did it happen in theory? ARE you being monitored 24/7? Were you not being monitored 24/7?

I will go back to the links you posted now and look and see if I can find one legit case of someone having the patriot act enacted on them where it didn't turn out to be terrorism. I am absolutely positive it didn't happen to anyone in this thread.

*Here is the most relevant link to the point you are trying to make:
latimesblogs.latimes.com...
The guy (Ashcroft) signed warrants, not invoked any part of the patriot act. However it was in post 911 mania that this took place. Here is the summary of the FBI's initiation of events:

On February 13, 2003, a federal grand jury in Idaho
indicted Sami Omar Al-Hussayen for visa fraud and making
false statements to U.S. officials. On March 14, the Idaho
U.S. Attorney’s Office submitted an application to a magis-
trate judge of the District of Idaho, seeking al-Kidd’s arrest as
a material witness in the Al-Hussayen trial. Appended to the
application was an affidavit by Scott Mace, a Special Agent
of the FBI in Boise (the Mace Affidavit). The Mace Affidavit
described two contacts al-Kidd had with Al-Hussayen: al-
Kidd had received “in excess of $20,000” from Al-Hussayen
(though the Mace Affidavit does not indicate what this pay-
ment was for), and al-Kidd had “met with Al-Hussayen’s
associates” after returning from a trip to Yemen. It also con-
tained evidence of al-Kidd’s contacts with officials of the
Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA, an organization
with which Al-Hussayen was affiliated),3 including one offi-
cial “who was recently arrested in New York.” It ended with
the statement, “[d]ue to Al-Kidd’s demonstrated involvement...

I agree wholeheartedly that this is wrong. What it goes on to explain is that they held him (al-Kidd) as a material witness and then never used him. This kind of thing has gone on well before 911. al-Kidds actual detention is a result of 911, but the MO they used was well established pre 911 and had already been going on.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by jprophet420]

Originally posted by brackforce
There is no question in my mind as to whether or not the official story is true. Its not..... Who planted the charges?

Good question!

We do not know the entire truth, but we do know what is not the truth.

There are many interesting theories about the actual bombs.. Off the top of my head let me list some things that first come to mind...

-"art students" were given a full level clearance and a section of the WTC at no rent for a long period of time.

-I believe that George Bushes brother, Jeb Bush, Owns a demolition company? (I don't remember entirely, but I also think that the explosives were military grade anyways.)

-The surveillance cameras and security doors were inoperative at some date that doesn't come to mind.

There are people that will know more than I on this subject, and I hope someone continues from where I left off.

We do know that kerosene and fax paper burning won't turn countless tons of steel into liquid.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ae7e8b943a72.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/988d65391823.jpg[/atsimg]


We can't prove what happened, however, we can prove what didn't happen.

Hope this clears up your question.

Find the weak part of someones argument, and break them at the neck.

Originally posted by jprophet420
I will go back to the links you posted now and look and see if I can find one legit case of someone having the patriot act enacted on them where it didn't turn out to be terrorism. I am absolutely positive it didn't happen to anyone in this thread.

Don't be absolutely positive sir,

I was detained by the department of homeland security for essentially taking a wrong turn. We came to the border and instead of being aloud to turn around and STAY IN AMERICA (we asked, they wouldn't let us) We were forced to drive our escorted car into a garage where it was torn apart from being searched while we had to sit in a glass box and prove who we are, spell our last name forwards, backwards, and explain our stories separately. Thumb printed, retna scanned, everything short of the rubber glove. One of us was interrogated because his liscense said he was 2 inches taller than he actually is.

The DHS specifically quoted the patriot act.

*edit to add information:*
We were in Michigan going towards Canada. None of us were held indeffenently because they didn't find a single thing on us. They did take our cell phones however. We were detained for about 6.5 hours.


[edit on 17-11-2009 by The_Zomar]