At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

There is nothing "complicated" about bombing 100's of people to death from the air after a single extremist Palestinian launches a rocket into Israel... It is very simple for all to comprehend. Israel is a bully and ASKS for people to stand up to what it is doing. Just like the riot police who are herding peaceful protesters by pushing them, jabbing them in the back hard with night sticks and and even beating them when they can't move any faster through the crowd.

It's all about intimidation, scare tactics, emotional manipulation, the laugable defense of oh you are a bad person for questioning our agenda and tactics!

The best defense is a good offense and you will notice that when questioning Zionists on their own cult's terrorist activities they will always deflect away from it by going on the offense as a form of defense.

You are an anti-Semite, you are a bigot, you have a small mind, you are just paranoid and dillusional and they do this knowing that the best defense is a good offense and they do this knowing that all humans seek and crave validation.

That your reaction will then be to defend yourself, that you aren't an anti-Semite, that you are not a bigot and in this fashion they avoid having to answer the hard and probling questions about Zionist terrorism, Israeli War Crimes, and thefts by desperately trying to make you be the bad person for questioning them about it.

When that doesn't work they try to minimize their actions, well someone called me a name wouldn't you blow up their entire family if they called you a name?

It's forever about deflection and trying to convince people to never hold them accountable for the very same things they want to hold other people to full accountablity for.

They know what they are doing and why they are doing it and train and study to do it uniformely in that way all the while feigning innocense and some moral motivation as they deflect and weave and dodge and go on the attack to avoid having to try to defend the morally indefensible by trying to make it seem like those who are questioning and being critical have no moral right based on some slander they invent to taint you with to intimidate and cower and ultimately try to force those in opposition to submit.

It's why they cling to these threads in desperate ways always needing to get the last word in, always needing to exploit the situation for maximum gain, never caring about the tragedy and injustices in the world and the ones they support and Israeli and Zionist policies and actions committ it always to them is about their own percieved injustice to them, it's always all about them, and when you really listen to what they are saying and don't bother to become defensive in regards to their slanderous accusations they are in fact saying loud and clear, it's all about us, it's all about us the Zionists, the Jews and the Israelis that's why we are here trying to tell you it's not all about us the Zionists, Jews and Israelis.

It's the most obscene laughable and rediculous of tactics but consistency is everything in strategy, even a broken clock is right twice a day so they just keep at it with the same old tactics, never admitting responsibility or culpability never imagining their has even been one mistake ever made by the Zionist Israeli Government and that all it's policies, thefts, ethnic cleansing and apartheid that have spawned a world wide terrorist reaction to it is solely based on people just don't like harmless little old Jews who bomb schools and hospitals with munitions outlawed by the Geneva Convention on their genocide campaigns.

In reality at this point they don't deserve a break. The world has been very charitble and lenient with Israel and it has come to take it for granted, shows no gratitude for it, and slanders and attacks everyone and everything that wants it to mature into a peaceful and fully accountable and responsible state in the world body.

Zionist Israel politics and actions are at the base core of the International Terrorism problem, it's as plain as day and it's so simple, and that's why they have to pull out every dirty rotten trick in the book to try to justify it excuse and deflect away from it.

Real Americans would never tolerate such interlopers and manipulators who do not share our Constitutional principles but simply seek to exploit us financially and militarily for their own goals and aims.

I want to see an end to terrorism and injustice to the world and that will never happen by playing favorites with Zionist Israel or listening to the self centered Zionists who care only about Zionist Israel and it's political goals and aims.

They aren't harmless, they are in fact a deadly mennace, they are in fact terrorists themselves.

The War on Terror is causing our Army soldiers to snap in record numbers as we wage a slow war of attrition to maximize the Military Industrial Complex profits off the backs of the hard working and increasingly poorer American taxpayer.

It has gained us not one thing but an increasing problem with foreign interlopers determined to exploit us at any and all costs.

I won't take their crap and I highly advise other true Americans to reject it and them as well.

Our forefathers did not want us taking sides in foreign matters, fighting wars of agression or attempting to build an empire. They sure didn't want us to build one for Zionist Israel!

Our fore fathers would not have sent Zionist Israel aide, they would have sent in the Marines for attempting to subvert our Constitutional form of Government as AIPAC has.

Not to mention--
Every Israeli soldier stays home to defend his country, while American's are dying by the thousands fighting their foreign wars. Dying right here at Fort Hood as well.
I can't wait to see the pro Canadian Zionist streaming off to Afghanistan to defend Canada in place of a few Yanks. That is the way to solve this problem.

Originally posted by JJay55

 

 

Oh, nice sensoring. Keep it up and deny the truth about the Ft Hood Shooter!!!

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Not to mention--
Every Israeli soldier stays home to defend his country, while American's are dying by the thousands fighting their foreign wars. Dying right here at Fort Hood as well.
I can't wait to see the pro Canadian Zionist streaming off to Afghanistan to defend Canada in place of a few Yanks. That is the way to solve this problem.

The way to solve the problem of not just Terrorism but all of America's many problems is to get the FORIEGN influences out of our government, get the RELIGIOUS influences out of our government, get the CORPORATE infuences out of our government and return to a Government of the people for the people by the people and end this counter productive and highly self destructive Goverment for foreign interests, religious interests and corporate interests where the peoeple who have to fund all this madness the average citizen and tax payer is last on the list.

We were founded on the principles of seperating church from state.

So when then are billions of U.S. tax dollars going every year to Israel in the form of a charitble gift? Isreal is in fact International headquarters to the Cults of Judaism and Zionism, just like the Vatican City is Headquarters to the Roman Catholics.

We don't send aide to the Vatican and we don't arm the Vatican and we should not be sending aide or arming Israel either.

Israel is at the center of an ages old religious argument that breeds nothing but contention and violences. We have seen Jews of Zionists of all Nationalities from around the world consistently display their number one allegience and concern is Israel even though they don't even live there!

We don't fund the Vatican and we don't fund Mecca there is absolutely no reason to fund Israel when our nation was meant to be founded on seperation of church and state.

At the core of the Zionist's agruments for wars of Muslim attrition is the fact that they are Muslim.

They are advocating for the United States to abandon it's constitutional principles of seperation of church and state, no religious persecution or tests and they have suceeded in doing that as they earn billions of dollars in cash and weapons each year courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer who is up to their eye balls in government and personal debt while Israel itself has one of the highest per capita incomes anywhere in the world and is a substantial investor in the U.S. real estate market as well as others around the world and even awards aid of it's own to client states in places like Georgia (the old Soviet Union) that the pre-biblical Habiru have ancesterol ties too.

Obviously they don't need our money and obviously they return nothing of tangible value for the money they are given year in and year out, year after year.

It's a gross violation of our Constitutional principles to do this.

Us doing it is at the heart of our Terrorism problem as people who see the injustice in us breaking our constitutional principles for religious foreign interests are in fact aiding and abetting religious persecution.

What the Zionists are in fact always on these threads arguing for is religious persecution of Muslims and in reality our Government's support of Israel very simply makes us a very real threat to Muslims because Zionist Israel is very much waging a war of genocide and attrition against them.

How could that not be at the core of our terrorist problem?

We need to get back to logical common sense government for the people by the people based on our founding Constitutional principles. We should favor no one nation over another, we should give no other nation aide. We can and should through private banking lend nations money that are deemed capable of paying it back. Give them money? No!

If our military industries are going to sell arms abroad all arms should be for sale to any nation that wants to buy them or not for sale at all to any nation that wants to buy them.

We armed both sides in World War I before entering it, we armed both sides in World War II before entering it.

We should only go to war when we have been attacked by a nation, not a handful of alleged criminals never tried from one to use an excuse to attack two others.

We should only stop having diplomatic relations with a nation when they don't pay their contracts and honor them with us.

This taking sides nonsense our fore fathers did not want to, and taking sides worse still in a religious argument between two peoples is and has proven to be our kiss of death.

The tragedy of Ft. Hood is that Major Hassans crimes are ultimately going to be used to dismiss other far worse crimes that we have been duped in to committing by foreign interlopers and having our Constitutional form of Government taken hostage.

Return to our Constitutional principles, stop taking side, stop giving away money and weapons to the side we take, stop letting the corporate and foreign interests run our government, stop letting one or two religions try to legistlate our morality and set foreign policy and restore government of the people, by the people for the people and exile every lawyer to the North Pole and our terrorism problem will go away over night.

When you mind your own business and don't take sides and refuse to take sides there is no reason for anyone to terrorize you.

The Zionists are constantly trying to terrorize us into taking sides and supporting them no matter what they do. They use every trick in the book to do it.

It really is whats at the heart of our terrorism problem and people like Major Hassan are really just trying to tell us that in albeit very poor and wrong ways, but shame on us for not listening to our scores of soldiers who are taking their own lives and abusing their own loved ones in record numbers to listen to these foreign interlopers and religious fanatics instead.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The Zionists are constantly trying to terrorize us into taking sides and supporting them no matter what they do. They use every trick in the book to do it.

It really is whats at the heart of our terrorism problem and people like Major Hassan are really just trying to tell us that

I get this spookiest impression a Deification mythology is rapidly evolving.

13 martyrs - symbolically equal in number to the 12 apostles + Son of Our Lord.

Sacrificial deaths following a ‘Last Supper’ (actually ‘Last Lunch’ it was 1:30 PM)

Major Hasan punishing Judaic corruption of the Holy Temple died for Our Sins - or at least did the best he could.


[edit on 19-11-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


One thing is for sure after having just read a performance review of Major Hassan it's amazing he was kept in the services.

It's hard to fully appreciate whether the superiors that kept recommending advancing him were doing so because he as a funtionary represented an investment in time and money they hoped to see a return on or whether he was being kept in the wings for precisely what transpired at Ft. Hood.

Either way he didn't belong in the army and appears to have suffered from a poor work ethic and self-discipline.

Frankly Michael I would like to understand the exact nature of these occurences and why they transpired and resent those that seek to politically or religiously exploit these issues.

There is so much more wrong with this picture besides just possible Muslim fundamentalism and the political desire to exploit that one of many potentially troubling aspects that led to this tragedy sadly precludes addressing the other AS FOREIGN INTERPLOPERS TRY TO MAKE IT ALL ABOUT THEM!

That's the problem with Zionist fundamendalists they look to exploit the very things they wish to propogate through their exploitation of them for a NON-AMERICAN BASED AGENDA.

Officers in the United States Military passed this man with poor performance reviews, a terrible lack of work ethics, a true under achiever right up the ranks for some reason and frankly that reason is a whole lot more important than these religious based arguments, pranoias and prejudices that the Zionist FORIEGN INTERLOPERS like to inject into these matters for THEIR OWN FOREIGN AGENDA.

Now as someone who worked with high ranking military officers in the Washington D.C. level I can testify to the fact that some of them are as dumb as the day is long and promotions are often based on politics and having never screwed the pooch.

For instance the commander of Ft. Hood's military career is for all intents and purposes over. In other words often the sole basis of promotion in the Military is just the stellar good luck of not having anyone go postal in your command.

Major Hassan required excessive supervision, was allowed to advance after having not truly cleared the bar and there is either negligent incompetence involved or a conspiracy to set him up as a patsy.

This is a conspiracy site and for those who come here looking to simply riducule those interested in conspiracies while promoting a FORIEGN BASED AGENDA they certainly are free to exercise free speech but when they get called on their transparent and blatant attempts to exploit an American tragedy for their OWN FOREIGN BASED AGENDA that breeds FURTHER TRAGEDIES and get their feelings hurt in the process frankly it serves them right.

The Israeli Zionist Government operates as one giant international criminal enterprise that profits insanely off of the propaganda and terrorism it sews and the crimes it commits.

That's a fact. When people play with fire long enough sooner or later they are bound to get burned.

The Zionists are in fact playing with fire.

Wow this thread got really ridiculous. Poor Majot Hasan, we should have a parade for him. He's a hero. The Jews and Christians are evil and deserve to be slaughtered!!! All Hail the Ft Hood SHooter!!! And America sucks too.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by JJay55]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The Israeli Zionist Government operates as one giant international criminal enterprise that profits insanely off of the propaganda and terrorism it sews and the crimes it commits.

That's a fact.

This is a very important fact to know.

For those who may have missed it, earlier in this thread you outlined the linkage of this planned profiteering to Major Hasan's unfortunate outburst and named the 'invisible hand' prime functionaries in this "criminal enterprise"

In the interest of better understanding, if it's not too much trouble, could you possibly elaborate on your unclear remark here "a guy wanders into a 7-11 one morning and is Leader of his nation the next"

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

People like Major Hassan and many non-Muslim U.S. soldiers are snapping and having suicidal breakdowns in epidemic proportions because of this perverse game the leaders play and the Military Industrial Complex profits insanely off of as it enslaves the entire planet in this boold [sic] sport for monetary profit but ultimately to rule through controlled chaos.

You would have us accidently believe that all this happens, that a guy wanders into a 7-11 one morning and is Leader of his nation the next, and just happens to do this or that.

That men like Zionist Baron David De Rothschild who is reputed to control more than 65% of the world's wealth would never collude with someone like Zionist David Rockefeller reputed to control an estimated 20% of the world's wealth, the respective owners of amongst many other things Royal Dutch Shell Oil and Exxon Mobil?

Why there would be no reason why these men who are the controlling principles and owners of every major reserve bank on the planet and control nearly 90 percent of the world's wealth and resources between them would do anything but allow billions of people do chaotically fight over the little measley bit left that they need to leave to get people to fight over it?

Zionism is a control cult Israel and the Jews along with the rest of the world are victims too it.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by JJay55
Wow this thread got really ridiculous. Poor Majot Hasan, we should have a parade for him. He's a hero. The Jews and Christians are evil and deserve to be slaughtered!!! All Hail the Ft Hood SHooter!!! And America sucks too.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by JJay55]

Deflection tactics #7 make a joke of the issue.

ATS is a Conspiracy website where people investigate, debunk, prove and try to disprove conspiracies.

The topics including this topic are conspiracy related. Those who aren’t interested in investigating ALL the possible elements to a conspiracy are likely not well suited for the ATS boards.

Jihad watch dot com is where some of the posters to this thread belong.

Major Hassan is one way or another involved with any possible conspiracy involved in the Ft. Hood Shootings.

To say there is no conspiracy is ridiculous as the man stands accuses of premeditated murder. The premeditated charge denotes a level of conspiring to carry out an act.

There are multiple issues involved with the Ft. Hood shooting, and multiple potential conspiracies involved with the Ft. Hood shooting. Conflicting and then changing statements made by high ranking military officials as the events were unfolding have muddied the waters and created a doubt as to what really happened and why.

Career Military Officers in command of one of the nation’s largest and most prestigious military posts are not assigned such positions because they panic and get confused. They are assigned those positions because in crisis and in war they are considered to be competent and reliable and able to quickly assess situations and respond to them in a commanding way.

That the Commanding Officer of Ft. Hood had his facts apparently so wrong when first divulging information of the shootings is unbefitting of the conduct of such a high ranking Military Command Officer.

That the story could change so radically from three shooters, with one dead, one captured one at large, to two shooters one dead and one at large, to one shooter no longer dead but captured and wounded and change from attacks at two locations to one location has created a reasonable doubt that warrants sincere and credible investigation.

That some foreign interlopers, religious extremists and those with prejudiced agendas of their own have tried to turn this thread into a platform for dismissing all other pertinent elements to this tragedy to defame and slander all Muslims in itself a significant tragedy.

It shows a lack of respect to the over all ATS community of serious conspiracy theorists and their critical minds that reject hastily formed superficial and politically motivated and religiously motivated conclusions.
Some people are very interested in this conspiracy, finding out all the facts, and some people could care less what the facts are and are more interested in turning it into a political platform for loosely and non-related things to further non-American agendas.

Those posters know what they have done and what they are doing and so do the other posters who have tried hard to stay on topic and not let emotions, prejudices and agendas of other posters get in the way of discussing ALL the conspiracy elements in play with this shooting.

Exaggerating and distorting facts won’t make a case, and neither will trying to ridicule serious posters, and neither will trying to make a joke of the fact that some agenda driven posters are upset that they can’t promote religious intolerance and indict a whole religion for the alleged criminal actions of one man without being called to task on it by other posters.

There are lots of non-conspiracy blogs for people who have not the patience or inclination to examine all the facts of an occurrence that suggest a conspiracy might be very much at play.

The fact remains the same though that when a whole cadre of tight nit, foreign interlopers descend on a thread to turn it into a political platform for a foreign based, religious or political agenda then obviously a prime motive is in existence that would cause people to conspire to create circumstances and incidents for that very purpose and platform to promote such ideology and goals.

The events at Ft. Hood will take a considerable length of time to get to the bottom of there are myriad concerns to be addressed that go far beyond anyone individual’s or group’s foreign, political or religious based agenda.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

People like Major Hassan and many non-Muslim U.S. soldiers are snapping and having suicidal breakdowns in epidemic proportions because of this perverse game the leaders play and the Military Industrial Complex profits insanely off of as it enslaves the entire planet in this boold [sic] sport for monetary profit but ultimately to rule through controlled chaos.

That's funny. How many of the suicides by non-muslim military have taken 54 people with them.... ummmm.... let's just say zero.

"The dramatic increase is revealed in new U.S. Army figures, which show 2,100 soldiers tried to commit suicide in 2007. " hmmmmm. yeah they are all snapping and killing non-muslims every day. yeah... can we put this thread to rest yet, it's ridiculous.

[edit on 19-11-2009 by JJay55]

reply to post by mmiichael

While on the topic, I was hoping you could elaborate on your somewhat unclear remark in there "a guy wanders into a 7-11 one morning and is Leader of his nation the next"

Certainly friend Michael at the heart of most of your own theories is that an endless series of random acts are born out of chaos and that independent elements are constantly vying for control as a result. Your hypothesis always precludes any well planned organized attempt to conspire to effect events in a determined way on a world wide scale. That all events are random that puppet masters don’t exist to play both sides of the divide and do not conspire to create the events that they then later can use to manipulate people primarily through emotion and promise of economic gain.

The way you often try to promote things is a person of humble origins can rise up through an independent unplanned uncoordinated chain of events to rival existing power structures or at least become a potential threat to existing power structures.

I do not believe this. I believe a small group of highly dedicated, very well connected, and very well healed individuals who collectively through a small number of hands own or control most of the planets vital resources conspire and collude with one another to maintain a system where those resources are held in very few hands, horded and rationed in ways that guarantee those resources will stay in their hands by creating an endless series of events that distract and divide the masses and so emotionally embroil them in controversy and conflict that they never can unite to change the status quo and remove those resources from the very few hands of the Masters who dole them out in calculated and incremental ways for the sake of control over the masses.

Sadly this means that even though the earth is full of abundant resources to the extent no man woman or child should have to go hungry or homeless or live in an insecure environment that they nonetheless must continue to live in poverty, often in famine, in war torn places where resources that are plentiful but horded and rationed and doled incrementally for profit and control are fought violently over.

Why does a man rob another man? For something that man has that he does not have himself? Why does he not have it himself? Chances are because of the scarcity paradigm that is used to control the masses through the incremental rationing of resources held by and horded by a few people for profit and control and power.

In reality there is no reason why anyone on this planet needs to go hungry, cold, or live in fear because of the scarcity of very plentiful but horded resources save one thing…

Religion, religion that teaches people that they should not expect such a great life on this earth even though it is a very great life for the puppet masters who horde and control the planet’s resources, religions that teach people this is not the doing of greedy and manipulative and heartless men but some loving and benevolent G-d that sees all and knows all that is so much wiser he feels there is some valuable lesson to be learned in living a life of deprivation and insecurity. That all these injustices occur not because of the will of a few evil men but a loving wonderful G-d that evidently looses no sleep or sheds no tears watching hundreds of thousands of people starve every day and hundreds of thousands more attempt to kill each other over things that wouldn’t be so consequential if they weren’t made so scarce.

As you know and I have said a thousand times before I believe Rome is at the heart of this system of Governance because Rome through the Pontificus Maximus invented this very system of Governance and spread it’s basic principles throughout the world while other branches of the cults that pray to the same ever so benevolent deity do the same thing, while dividing the people further over minor differences in protocol that become huge differences for people who have chosen to give up all hope for any earthly reward on this insane planet in exchange for a purported heavenly reward in the next one.

It’s all one huge massive conspiracy that most of the globe is so immersed and caught up in it’s not funny and it really is run by a very small handful of people at the top with the money and resources to manipulate events.

Michael I am a humble man of limited resources but the reality is that I can push your buttons or anyone else’s I choose to like no tomorrow. Sorry my friend that I am so cruel in that fashion on occasion but it provides an important objectivity lesson in that if I a humble and self taught man of limited means know just what buttons to push to make a highly dedicated and otherwise disciplined person zig when I want them to zig and they had hoped to zag, then imagine what someone with such an understanding of human behavior could do when it is coupled with extreme wealth and the ability to logistically create anything to set a stage because for that person of extreme wealth nothing is scarce and is not readily available as in reality there is no scarcity at all to begin with.

Just a few thousand tightly connected interconnected codependent people who control 98% of the world’s wealth who have every reason in the world to want to continue to horde it and control with it and every resource available to them to make sure they do.

Meanwhile as the plebes fight over the scraps that they purposefully lay out like breadcrumbs to be fought over people are manipulated to that end.

You my friend though wish to ignore this larger reality to get bogged down and lost in the petty intrigues and machinations of bit players of no consequence and point to them as being indicative of something that isn’t.

You my friend do this for the reason everyone does this because some carrot you covet has been laid out for you to fight over. And so fight you shall throughout your days for those crumbs and morsels that you imagine are there for you that will some how give you some sustaining peace and happiness that has eluded you and everyone else throughout your entire life as the planet’s Masters manipulate the situations that serve them well with a similar illusionary promise of earthly gain to go along with the illusionary promise of heavenly gain that has caused people to turn this planet into HELL ON EARTH.

It’s a conspiracy Michael and I will not be able to end this conspiracy until people learn enough and open their eyes to how they are being ruled and what they are doing to one another, without another head of the hydra simply growing.

I stand ready to intervene but until the good people of this planet can stop fighting over breadcrumbs and hilltops and start looking to those who sit on the mountains that horde the planet's wealth and manipulate their slaves with vague promises of some of it, if they will only first do this or that, there is not a whole lot I can do.

Except chide the children and remind them the error of their ways.

Love is the answer Michael not war. Love thy enemy true enough and they shall love you back.

You like to think of me as an enemy to what you hold near and dear. I on the other hand put you on my friends list!

Love is a many splendid thing Michael.

The world doesn’t need more hate it needs more love, and I shall always be there whenever possible to remind the people spreading hate that it needs more love instead.




[edit on 19/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The key word mentioned in the sources you quote is "tribute". These payments were tribute, to state sponsored terrorism.

Islam calls it the "jizya", a tax to be paid by infidels for the mere benefit of being allowed to exist in muslim areas.

Tribute.

State-sponsored "piracy" is called "privateering", not piracy.

These pirates were terrorists, pure and simple. They were also islamic, but the tribute payments are the only thing that connects the two.

Bin Laden also made the offer to the US, in one of his speeches, to stop fighting us if we pay the jizyah. The only difference between modern jihadists and the Barbary Pirates is an oceangoing MO, and of course State sponsorship. Jihad is jihad, regardless of sponsorship.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

In fact the Zionists created the culture of violence and terrorism that Major Hassan grew up being effected by directly and influenced by directly.

[edit on 18/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

In fact, if we take the history back even further, we see that the culture of violence was, if not created, at least GREATLY fostered and expanded by Mohammed himself, rather than any perceived "zionists".

The very first jihadist victory was the Battle of Badr.

Things sort of expanded and got out of hand from there, until the Middle East was aflame - not for the first time, I might add, for the sake of honesty and completeness.

It WAS, however, the first time islamic jihadists were thrown into the mix.

Originally posted by bsbray11

The difference is that back then, the "protecting US interests" you are talking about was a naval blockade in response to piracy. Today, "protecting US interests" is a multi-trillion dollar campaign of invading countries, having military bases in all number of countries all over the world, having prisons all over the world, torturing people to death in those prisons (Gitmo). Not to mention beefing up police at home, trampling on more rights whenever they reel so inclined, illegally wiretapping and illegally arresting people at political events.

So what you are saying is that nowadays, the US DOESN'T protect their interests, simply because the methodology has expanded, right? That would appear to be a non-sequitur, and a baltant denial of the logical extension of progress.

As far as the folks "tortured to death in Gitmo", WHO? You have names for those who met a grisly end at the hands of torture masters at Gitmo? Seems like thaty ought to be looked into, don'tcha think?

Starting to sound no different at all from what crazy dictators do. Except in our case the crazy dictator is a system of crazy military dictators and the corporations that get fat off of war steering our Congress and politicians to do whatever it wants.

Military dictators? POTUS is a military dictator? If he's military, can you please produce his service record? I haven't seen it yet.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

The key word mentioned in the sources you quote is "tribute". These payments were tribute, to state sponsored terrorism.

Islam calls it the "jizya", a tax to be paid by infidels for the mere benefit of being allowed to exist in muslim areas.

Tribute.

State-sponsored "piracy" is called "privateering", not piracy.

These pirates were terrorists, pure and simple. They were also islamic, but the tribute payments are the only thing that connects the two.

Bin Laden also made the offer to the US, in one of his speeches, to stop fighting us if we pay the jizyah. The only difference between modern jihadists and the Barbary Pirates is an oceangoing MO, and of course State sponsorship. Jihad is jihad, regardless of sponsorship.

We still trying to give pirates a worse name than they already have friend?

Outstanding, there is a solution indeed! Now if you would be so kind to explain how the act of pirating for ransom which has been done by every other known race and religion from the start of recorded history really beomes any different of a crime when the Queen of England knights you for your privateering that profited the state, or whether you swing from the gallows pole?

The reality is that Pirates are Pirates, Pirates all have a code. Watch any one of the Pirates of the Carribean movies to find out more.

That's about the speed that suits most of the people on this thread.

All you are in essence claiming is that a relatively recent twist for profit and propaganda has surprise, surprise rewritten history for political advantage.

The people who do this by the way are the real terrorists.

George Washington was considered a Terrorist by the British should we dig up his grave and kick him some friend?

[edit on 19/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by nenothtu

 

The thing about calling them "Islamic jihadists" over "pirates" is that you are emphasizing their religion when, even without that particular religion, these people would be pirating anyway!

I specify Islamic Jihadists because I don't know of any Buddhist Jihadists.

Again, not all Muslims there were hellbent on attacking our ships, obviously, because we were trading with them! It was only a select violent group that was doing it.

My point EXACTLY. Thank you for so eloquently stating it for me. I'll say it again, in my own words, to make sure the flavor is right. ALL jihadists are muslims, but not all muslims are jihadists.

Anywhere in the world you count find the same thing and those people would be following the religion native to that area.

True enough, but neither do those others use their own subjective perceptions of their religion to fleece the infidels. Only Islamic Jihadists do that.

The rest are just pirates.

You are focusing on extremist groups and making it a deal about their religion because you're been conditioned to be bigoted towards that religion. Ie Islam.

Well, the thread was kinda sorta ABOUT the actions of an extremist, in this case an islamic extremist.

Neither am I conditioned to be bigoted against that religion. Review my posts. I've vehemently DEFENDED islam, just not the jihadists. I'm able to make that distinction. perhaps you are not.

I can make that distinction because at one time I WAS a muslim. There. I've dropped the bomb. Finally got pushed into it. Congrats.

I still have a number of muslim friends. None of them are aware that I ever was one. I know, far better than you, just how dangerous THAT information could be if released into the wild.

Yet not all Muslims are not bad people, or want to kill everybody.

I'm very well aware of that. See above. Neither am I willing to minimize the dangers that the jihadists present.

So there is no point pounding Islam Islam Islam Muslim Muslim Muslim over and over again, when the much more accurate term than "Muslim" to describe this man (again, since Muslims are over a billion people) is "extremist" (which is not over a billion people). You use words that are technically accurate but you are emphasizing a part of them that is sick, in that you are trying to spread hatred.

To truncate it to a mere "extremist" is to ignore the bigger picture, and attempt to sweep things under the rug. An "extremist" could be a donut extremist, willing to kill for donuts.

There's a reason I use "techincally accurate" terminology. It's to avoid hiding anything, to get everything out in the open, and to foster a dialogue.

It appears that "extremists" on both sides of this fence are having none of THAT!

Come visit me some time. I'll introduce you to some muslims that would have a differing opinion of whether or not I ever attempt to spread "hate".

[edit on 2009/11/19 by nenothtu]

reply to post by nenothtu

Military dictators? POTUS is a military dictator? If he's military, can you please produce his service record? I haven't seen it yet.

The President of the United States is Commander in Cheif of all the nation's armed forces. Whether he has ever served in the military or not the Office of Commander in Cheif is in fact an Office and what makes one an Officer of any command structure orginization is holding an Office in it.

This makes the Commander in Cheif of the United States Military an Officer of the Military as he functions as the Cheif of said office.

He does have the ability to DICTATE orders to the Military, that does have a Constitutional obligation to follow them.

If Muslim Pirates can be terrorists simply because a Muslim word can be used to describe acts of Piracy then the Officer that has supreme authority to DICTATE orders to the United States Military can in fact be a DICTATOR.

In fact when the last lawfully ellected and sat Congress disbanded in 1861 when Constitutional Government was supplanted by Corporate Law and a Military Dictatorship, a Dictatorial President Lincoln illegally called the Congress back in session and started allowing it to pass laws without a Quarum the Office of the United States President did in fact fall into Military Dictatorship and we have operated as an Emergency War Time non-Contitutional Government ever since. Dictator Lincoln that Dictator Obama reveres at one time even sent an Army General to arrest the Cheif Justice of the Supreme Court for refusing Lincoln permission to suspend the Writ of Habeus Corpus the most important protection afforded citizens since the Magna Carter. The Cheif Justice in order to remain free allowed Lincoln to suspend the Writ of Habeus Corpus one's right to a free and fair trial for the duration of the War for States Rights.

There has been no independent Supreme Court since 1861 when the Military and Coporate Dictatorship took over and started replacing Constitutional Law with the United States Codes which is nothing but Contract Law that you sign and your parents sign when you get Birth Certificates, Social Security Cards, Medicare Cards, Driver's Licenses and Voter Registration Cards and Federal Income Tax Forms all of which make you an employee of the United States Corporation and the State Corporation you were born as State property into.

Some people really are not ready for conspiracy sites!

Originally posted by mmiichael
'Zionist' is the word chosen by antisemites on this board to push their vile hatemongering but keep under the wire of the rules.

That, sir, I perceive as fact. The very first time I ever heard the word "zionist" was when a local KKK-like faction caught wind of parts of my history, and tried to recruit me into their efforts.

They claimed the effort was against not only "communists", but also "zionists", who evidently, in their warped world view, were the motivating factor in international communism.

I wasn't having any of it then, and I'm not having any of it now. I reckon they figured that since I put so much into the fight against communism, they could swing me over by equating the two.

BS.

Ever since then, the word "zionist" sets off alarms in my head.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The reality is that Pirates are Pirates, Pirates all have a code. Watch any one of the Pirates of the Carribean movies to find out more.

My pal, the Protoplasmic Traveler. I'd love to hate you, but your pearls of wisdom, cast out to undeserving swinish types like myself, so often crack me up, it's really hard to maintain a grim and determined face.

I'm no expert of high seas pirates. But like with the Old West cowboy or the gallant knights in shining armour, most of what we think we know about these unusual historical characters is based on romantic fantasizing in novels and film, not real life.

Never seen them but know Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean" juvenile audience movie franchise have little semblance to the historical pirates of previous centuries.

Fact and Fiction are often very different.


M

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Now if you would be so kind to explain how the act of pirating for ransom which has been done by every other known race and religion from the start of recorded history really beomes any different of a crime when the Queen of England knights you for your privateering that profited the state, or whether you swing from the gallows pole?

The difference is in the motivational factors, whether it's done for King or God.

Or mere, base, personal gain.

Now the fact is that we will likely never know the TRUE motivations of any except those pirate alive today. The rest can't give a testimony. In Many an islamic nation, religion is inextricable from politics, so the two tend to merge as to motivational factors by those states.

Forcing tribute from infidels is jihad, in any century.

George Washington was considered a Terrorist by the British should we dig up his grave and kick him some friend?

As I've said many times before, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. As is the case now with Washington and company, so will the case be in the future with bin Laden and company, if we don't get it right now, rather than when it's too late.

That's why this silly interchange of "the muslims all did it"" and "the jews all did it!" and "the Americans all did it!" is so very off the track.

The VIOLENT conquerors, whatever culture they hide behind, whatever motivational factors they claim, are doing it. If we don't get it right now, our progeny will be cursing us in the future.

Meanwhile, the conquerors sit back and laugh at the confusion they have wrought among us.

Islamic jihadists are among those would be conquerors, all muslims are not.

To borrow your phrase, it really IS that simple.

I'm amazed and dismayed that more people still can't grasp that simple fact.