At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Originally posted by JJay55
For those who don't think Islamic terrorism is dangerous:
"NEW DELHI, Nov 16 (Reuters) - India has put its nuclear power plants under alert and tightened security around them after intelligence about possible attacks, a report said on Monday.

The step comes after a man arrested in the United States on charges of plotting attacks in India was found to have travelled to Indian states that have nuclear installations."
www.reuters.com...

This is not about Fort Hood. This is not about the Major.
This entire post is about your blind hateful obsession with Islam.

Again, I don't hate Islam or anyone.
Islam is violent. Proven over and over.

The Major is American.

Islam is just his religion. It is not the Major.
You could come from the country of Shmuk.
You may practice the religion of Crap in the country of Shmuk.
So does that make you Crap instead of you?
America allows freedom of religion. If the Major picks Islam it does not make him a terrorist. If he is a terrorist, he made himself one. If your religion is Crap in Shmuk and you kill folks of other religions but who are still Shmuks does that make you a terrorist or a Crap?

[edit on 16-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by JJay55

 

JJ,

You are correct, except...

That only occurs in civilized countries with civilized people.

Someone who does like what's happening and goes on a killing spree is uncivilized.

If I were a very confused brown noser with absolutely nothing to say on my own I would just jump all over this thread and let everyone know I have no clue about the TOPIC .
The Major at Fort Hood. 90k a year. Yeah real uncouth eh.

reply to post by blueorder

It must be the worst crusade in history then, because if Christians are attacking Iraq to further Christianity then why are they not funding the growth of churches there and importing Christians- when in fact the Christian population has been decimated by the short sighted policies of the Americans as the Islamic extremists, without the "order" of Saddam were able to cleanse them- the yanks invaded Iraq for many reasons, but it sure as hell was not to ensure that Christianity flourished there

War is about dividing and conquering and the politics of setting pretexts to sell them to the people who have to fight and die in them and pay for them.

It’s about controlled chaos and being able to control the chaos because you are the entity introducing it and feeding it. If you can keep people divided and engaged against one another on the street level, in the gutter, even here in the cyber world you can operate with near impunity above them and over them in that vacuum that the people have created and left as they argue, bicker, war and sometimes even kill one another. As if life wasn’t short enough to begin with.

There had been a status quo in Iraq for thousands of years between Christians, Muslims and Jews. It basically went like this, don’t try to convert anyone, and every one will be fine and happy. As long as each community kept to itself in that way and didn’t seek converts from any other, they were free to maintain their own little religious fiefdoms free of any animosity.

That is until the Texas cowboy came to town after being told by God in the Rose Garden at the White House to attack Iraq. God in this case being George Bush, Sr. more than likely, but hey in reality that’s as close to God as you can get on this planet.

Evangelicals of the Jimmy Swaggart persuasion of course printed up Christian coloring books to put in tens of thousands of poor Iraqi children’s back to school supplies all neatly bundled in a personalized carry all complete with Religious sponsor and calling card. Hundreds of thousands of New Testament Bibles were printed in Arabic to give away to the poor deprived children of Iraq after suffering first war, the a decade of brutal sanctions and then more war, because growing up is one fun thing to do on a planet ruled by the Military Industrialists who will absolutely make sure each side to a conflict were people will kill each other no matter what their ideologies are armed to the nines.

Just as long as they profit off of it. Controlled chaos, introducing it all manipulating it all from the top and sadly Religion is just ONE MORE WEAPON in the arsenal.

Well of course these well intentioned Evangelical Christians sure did upset the applecart and the status quo THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE TO LIVE THERE and don’t live on a SOAP BOX had to deal with this.

Agreements that allowed each of the three branches of Abrahams dysfunctional family to coexist went up in flames because of Christian ministries here in the United States that were the back bone of the Neoconservative movement THAT HAS STOLEN OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and backed these insane wars just had, to had, to spread the word of God to the poor ignorant Iraqis WHO JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE LIVED WHERE THE RELIGION WAS BORN FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS and not in Texas or Louisiana, or North or South Carolina or any of the other places that make up the lets bomb them all and give who is ever left a Holy Roman Bible to help them sort it out crowd.

Afghanistan and Iraq has not been sold as a thinly veiled religious crusade with people like JJay the main stream press, politicians from the President on down and the Evangelical Christians and Jews singing Hallelujah and urging it all on?

You must live on one of those alternative Planet X like earths because here on the one I am stuck on, you have got to be kidding me. De Nile sure isn’t just a river in Egypt.



[edit on 16/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by JJay55
Blame America. America is evil. Muslims couldn't possibly be blowing up *SNIP* in Bali, Africa, Pakistan, or elsewhere, eh?
Crikey. Evil America. Anti-America.
whatever.

When was the last time you saw Pakistani, Balinese, Iranian, or Iraqi military patrolling US waters or operating out of bases stationed in the mainland US?

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by nenothtu
That's the point I keep trying to get across, that a lot of folks have confused "muslim" with "jihadist".

Are you speaking of muslims who are confused about that? And those muslims that are confused commit horrific crimes?
Or are you still talking about people who sympathize?

???

Please clarify your post to address the specific issue you had difficulty understanding with a fuller description of what you don't find clear, so that I can respond and clarify it for you.

The entire post which surrounded that single line provided ample clarification of the concept, I thought, but if it still stumps you, I'd be more than happy to clarify it once I can understand where your confusion springs from.

Confused muslims? Sympathizers? I'm not even sure where you get those concepts from, as neither was in any way a part of that full post.

reply to post by JJay55


None of those methods, strategies, or tools are specific to jihadists. You should see the collections of jailhouse implements and hear the stories guards at nearly any Institute of Higher Incarceration have to tell.

It wasn't because they were "muslims", it was because they were INMATES.

Finding violent folks in PRISON? Who'da thunk it?

Possibly relevant to this discussion, have you guys seen this?

Creepy!

Here's an example of HATE for all those who are misunderstanding what it is:
"Hate preacher Abu Hamza is delivering extremist sermons to prisoners through the water pipes of his cell, it has been claimed.
The Muslim cleric is defying a preaching ban imposed by prison bosses to radicalise inmates.

He is able to give his lectures through the plumbing that connects to neighbouring cells in Belmarsh Prison...."
www.dailymail.co.uk...

This is the kind of Islamic behavior, from a HOLY MAN, to his followers that incites violence against AMERICANS and NON-MUSLIMS. Even a prison won't stop the spread of HATE.
The Ft Hood shooter also had a cleric who taught him these lessons. But some of you still want to blame AMERICA. Please understand the source of the violent behavior. It's very clear.

Originally posted by mattpryor
Possibly relevant to this discussion, have you guys seen this?

Creepy!

Malcolm X and the Black Panthers are related to the violent behavior, yes. And Farakhan and The New Black Panthers, and MS13, and the IRA, and many others all cooperate to keep the violence alive. And some of us can't understand this and say lallalallalal oh it's American's fault. Actually, there are very violent people out there and it will hit home to all Americans as it grows in the coming years. Now is the time to fight this force and stop it now. Zero tolerance for Islamic violence!!!

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by JJay55
Blame America. America is evil. Muslims couldn't possibly be blowing up *SNIP* in Bali, Africa, Pakistan, or elsewhere, eh?
Crikey. Evil America. Anti-America.
whatever.

When was the last time you saw Pakistani, Balinese, Iranian, or Iraqi military patrolling US waters or operating out of bases stationed in the mainland US?

What?
Here's the question.
What did Mumbai India do to get attacked by Islamic terrorists? They aren't American. They aren't the West, who are you going to blame now?
This is a religious war instigated by Islam, they don't deny this. Why do you still deny it?

I guess you haven't heard about Kashmir then?

Or what about India's involvement in the Trans-Afghan pipeline project, with a side pipeline to India through Pakistan?

Originally posted by Chevalerous
I guess you haven't heard about Kashmir then?

Or what about India's involvement in the Trans-Afghan pipeline project, with a side pipeline to India through Pakistan?

So they want the oil money but they don't want any non-muslims to be there to operate the facility that will bring oil money unless they are in slave status?
And do you drive a car? Are you ready to give up all imports because you agree with the world belonging to those who don't want to trade?

And what exactly did Australia do to be attacked? And does attacking make sense in negotiation? Killing innocents... because... why?

[edit on 17-11-2009 by JJay55]

[edit on 17/11/09 by neformore]

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by JJay55
Even a prison won't stop the spread of HATE.

The same hate thats being preached in this thread against all muslims?

Two sides of the same coin really.

That might be true if I was preaching hate, but I'm not. So maybe you can stop ther personal attacks and wrong assumptions. From a moderator even. I've never said "all" muslims commit violence. I have however said that muslims do commit violence in the name of Islam and other facts.
Thanks.

If we aren't realizing that the Ft Hood shooter did something against the law in the US then we are wrong in any assumptions about him. Very simple.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by JJay55]

[edit on 17/11/09 by neformore]

Originally posted by neformore

reply to post by JJay55

 

Heres your post history for this thread.

Reading it, what other assumption could someone make?

You plainly dislike muslims. You are - apparently - incapable of separating the actions of fundamentalists from the general populace. You believe that every single muslim believes in jihad and wants to see the downfall of western civilisation.

Which is kind of what Abu Hamza says, but from the other way round.

Its not a personal attack. Its an observation based on what I've read. If its not the case then I do apologise, but I've yet to see you say a single positive thing about Islamic people, or the Islamic religion. Thats single issue posting, and if its not - as you claim - hate, then its damn near to it.



[edit on 17/11/09 by neformore]

Dude. I don't plainly dislike muslims. I never said that. Those are your words. I shouldn't be arguing this with a moderator. That disqualifies you.
Your personal observations of people are incorrect.
I make statements about Islam that are from an Islamic point of view and are accurate.
Making a single positive post about Islam is not a requirement in posting, nor should it be.
Have a nice day.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by JJay55]

Oh, this is precious.
"Major Nidal Malik Hasan's military superiors repeatedly ignored or rebuffed his efforts to open criminal prosecutions of soldiers he claimed had confessed to "war crimes" during psychiatric counseling, according to investigative reports circulated among federal law enforcement officials"
abcnews.go.com...

Now if anyone would like to understand the principle of Islam I would be glad to explain.
Dar ul Harb and Fard ayn are two classic items that cause behavior like the Ft Hood Shooter. The origin is Islam. The cause if Islam. The principles are Islam.

(PS, I don't hate anyone)

reply to post by JJay55

Dude. I don't plainly dislike muslims. I never said that. Those are your words. I shouldn't be arguing this with a moderator. That disqualifies you.

One thing is for certain a number of posters to this thread have debunked many very biased claims regarding Islam and Muslims in general.

One thing is for certain a number of posters to this thread have posted unrelated non-topical stories to illustrate some type of obsession and fear about Islam and muslims.

In fact some posters to this thread have done nothing to add to the topical conversation but have simply used it to post anti-Islam, anti-Muslim sentiments and to promote religious stereo typing and to fear monger.

Some people posting to the thread and on ATS in general don't seem to actually understand it's a conspiracy site and blog, and not just a main stream topical conversation and political blog of which there are many on the internet that would be more suited to off topic rants where people continually post debunked and discredited information time after time for the purpose of politics and political trolling.

Some people posting in this manner consistently are truly ignorning the ATS motto in doing little but purposefully trying to promote ignorance of facts by deliberately and knowingly miscontruing facts.

The fact of the matter is that a terrible tragedy occured at Ft. Hood.

The fact of the matter is that we are a long way away from knowing what the facts are that will actually be presented in a court of law where they can stand up to actual scrutiny.

The fact of the matter some posters want to make his real crime not murder but being a Muslim.

The fact of the matter is they are trying to do that in an attempt to make Islam seem like a criminal and dangerous thing.

The fact of the matter is it is no more dangerous than any other religion, and the jails are full of people in this country who aren't Muslim that have comitted terrible crimes.

Timmothy McVeigh sure wasn't a Muslim.

Jeffry Damler sure wasn't a Muslim.

Ted Bundy sure wasn't a Muslim.

The young boys who shot up Columbine High School sure weren't Muslim.

John Wayne Gacey sure wasn't a Muslim.

Was Bennizer Bhuto a Muslim women killed by radical Muslims because she was a bad Muslim? If so why was she popularly elected in a Muslim country?

I wish some of the posters to this thread would stop ignoring the ATS motto for a platform for their own prejudices and bigotry and remember
that the Ft. Hood Shootings are alleged to be carried out by one man who is a high ranking officer of the United States military who will be judged by a jury of his Officer peers based on facts not rants.

1) Hasan had been in direct correspondence with a notorious preacher of violence, Anwar al-Awlaki, whose enthusiasm for the teachings and actions of al-Qaida has long been well-known to researchers and intelligence agencies.

2) He bought weapons for himself well in advance of a murderous assault on unarmed soldiers awaiting treatment at a clinic—people to whom, in addition to his responsibilities as a human being, he also owed, as a physician, a sworn duty of care.

3) As he unleashed his volleys, he yelled the universal cry of jihad, "Allahu akbar!" or "God is great!" (The eyewitnesses on this point, originally doubted, are especially convincing since some of them didn't understand the meaning of the words and only sought to reproduce them phonetically.) On his business card, he described himself as "SOA" or "slave," or possibly, "soldier of Allah." Neither would be especially reassuring in this context.

4) He had attracted considerable attention by repeatedly using his postgraduate classes at the Uniformed Service University in Bethesda, Md., for the purpose of Islamic proselytizing, for a version of Islam that, to say the least, did not overemphasize it as a "religion of peace."

5) He had, in spoken and written communications, demonstrated a fascination with the love of death and the concept of suicide martyrdom (better described as suicide murder) that is the central concept of Bin Ladenism.

6) Though he may have been upset by the harrowing stories of returned soldiers—as many, many of us have been, incidentally—his overwhelming and reiterated objection to the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan, and al-Qaida in Iraq, is that it is "a war on Islam." It might be worth noting that this means that the Taliban does represent Islam, whereas the current governments of Iraq and Afghanistan somehow do not—a core belief of the Islamic purists who use the dogma of takfir to excommunicate such Muslims and render them liable, along with many other kind of infidel, to holy slaughter.

7) He seems to have been especially obsessed with the Quranic injunction that forbids devout Muslims to make alliances with Christians and Jews.

The above list is not exhaustive, but I would submit that five of the seven items (the first and the last four) would have been grounds to have had him either put under close surveillance or dismissed from the service. Proselytizing in uniform, for example, is already banned by a general order. To be "inclusive," the United States armed forces must exclude or discipline those who oppose inclusion. This, of course, goes for zealots of all faiths, and it won't do to point out that it isn't always universally applied. The Hasan atrocity makes such an application more urgent, not less.

What about the emphasis on Hasan's supposedly knife-edge mental state? Well, even supposing it to have been precarious, it can hardly have been improved by immersion in the rantings of Anwar al-Awlaki. I do not say that all practitioners of woman-hating, anti-Semitic, sadomasochistic suicide immolations are themselves insane, but I do say that the teaching itself is demented. In the same way, I do not say that all Muslims are terrorists, but I have noticed that an alarmingly high proportion of terrorists are Muslim. A paranoid or depressive person—of whom we have many millions in our midst—does not have to end up screaming religious slogans while butchering his fellow creatures. But a paranoid or depressive person who is in regular touch with a jihadist "spiritual leader" is presented with a ready-made script that offers him paradise in exchange for homicide.

All right, then, wasn't the gallant major also subject to ill treatment and even abuse? Only up to a point, when you consider that his parents had been given refuge from Palestine and enabled to build a life here, that he himself had knowingly joined an all-volunteer army, that he had been promoted (it seems rather faster and higher than his true abilities warranted) and allowed on the job to vent extremely noxious opinions about members of other faiths, to say nothing about his adopted country. No doubt he came in for a taunt or two, but if you want to avoid that, then don't express contempt for your fellow soldiers while in uniform. Black Americans used to be segregated. Jewish recruits were mercilessly hazed, as were men or women who looked as if they might be gay. Did any of them ever come up with an act of mass murder as a response? Did any of them ever offer a black or Jewish or gay ideology in justification of it? Would they have earned sympathy and understanding if they had? By the time the mushy "pre-post-traumatic" school was done with the story, Maj. Hasan was not just acquitted of being a bad Muslim. He was more or less exonerated of having even done a bad deed.

This is not at all a matter of the usual stupid refusal of the FBI and other security services to understand an early warning even when they have detected one. It is a direct challenge to the unity and integrity of the armed services, which have been one of our society's principal organs and engines of ethnic and religious integration. A U.S. soldier who wonders about the reliability of his, let alone her, Muslim colleague is not being "Islamophobic." (A phobia is an irrational or uncontrollable fear.) If Maj. Hasan has made this understandable worry in the ranks more widespread, he has done his fanatical preacher friend the greatest possible service. But that's his fault for doing what he did, and his superiors' fault for letting him openly rehearse it for so long, not mine for pointing it out.

I wrote some years ago that the three most salient characteristics of the Muslim death-squad type were self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. Surrounded as he was by fellow shrinks who were often very distressed by his menacing manner, Maj. Hasan managed to personify all three traits—with the theocratic rhetoric openly thrown in for good measure—and yet be treated even now as if the real word for him was troubled. Prepare to keep on meeting those three symptoms again, along with official attempts to oppose them only with therapy, if that. At least the holy warriors know they are committing suicide.

www.slate.com...

reply to post by JJay55


You didn't answer my question.

The US has so many military bases set up abroad, in the Middle East, and all over the rest of the world.

You seem to think extremists attacking us sporadically, here and there, is totally unprecedented and uncalled-for.

Well then answer my question -- when was the last time you saw an Iranian, Iraqi, Pakistani, etc. military installation on US soil, or any of their ships patrolling US waters?