At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by mmiichael

Stop right there. This is not even close to true. The inevitable lip-service is given in public forums particularly for Western audiences. Bin Laden was and still is exceptionally revered throughout the Muslim world. First for his involvement with the mujahadin in Afghanistan repelling Russian forces. Later for his assaults on the West culminating with 9/11.

Though he may have hidden out in a caves after the event, he was from an extremely wealthy family traveled worldwide, even to London, and oversaw a well funded sophisticated operation planning and successfully executing the destruction of major American targets with hijacked planes.

He is an almost mythical figure to half a billion downtrodden Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere. Their first modern hero.


M

correct, and I am from the UK (Northern Ireland to be precise), and I'm reading The TImes- there is an article in it seeking views from a mosque in London, most of the people don't think he committed a crime and most of the replies indicate that non muslims are lesser than muslims- there is one notable deviation from this view, a brave ex soldier, but he is in the minority (and also is given the most coverage in the article strangely enough.........)

You invite the viper into your nest.........

[edit on 7-11-2009 by blueorder]

reply to post by mmiichael


is he a hero? and you would know, right? i mean you must be one of those half billion downtrodden muslims. otherwise, how would you know? so when the msm doesnt show muslims speaking out that means most muslims love bin laden. and when they do show them speaking out against bin laden theyre just paying lip service to fool america? your logic is indeed astute!

Originally posted by siahchi
is he a hero? and you would know, right? i mean you must be one of those half billion downtrodden muslims. otherwise, how would you know? so when the msm doesnt show muslims speaking out that means most muslims love bin laden. and when they do show them speaking out against bin laden theyre just paying lip service to fool america? your logic is indeed astute!

you can kid yourself all you want, reality doesn't seem to be a friend of yours

you know what? whatever. trying to get anyone to think outside the box is like trying to do a physics equation with wingdings and emoticons. you all just keep slurping up the "truth" the media feeds you, because of course it re-inforces what you already believe. and why wouldnt it? it formed your opinion for you in the first place. 7/7 and 9-11 had nothing to do with anglo american governments and was perpatrated by people that hate our "freedoms". that look different from us. with a funny language. and different clothes. of course they must be evil! i think ill go eat some mcdonalds now and head to my megachurch in the morning. if i wave my flag hard enough the blood of jesus is going to destroy the infidel heathens and such.

dont bother bashing me anymore guys-this is your thread again. im sick of scorn for having a different opinion. i wont be checking your replies anyway do what you want. i will say this, i hope someone thought a little deeper about this because of my opinion and the FACTS ive stated. and i do hope everyone will increase the level of love in the world, its sorely needed. my heart goes out to the suffering families, i know what its like to lose family to violence, because of someone who was motivated by some messed up worldview, though i think there is more to this story than that. just my opinion. i thought people on ats would ask more questions, be a little more objective. all i got was insulted. instead of fellow researchers seeking to know the world inside out, i ran into superficial emotional non rational people personally attacking me. i wish those who took it upon themselves to belittle me growth and evolution as human beings. if we dont rise above attacking each other all the time how can we hope for peace in the greater world? see you on the paranormal threads, politics is bs.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by siahchi]

Originally posted by siahchi
oh, personal attacks. how evolved.

Who? Where? I'll get 'em for ya!. Oh, I bet you mean me. Where in that post is anything that could be construed as a personal attack by any but the most thin skinned?

and there are those who would say the sauds ARE jewish but who cares.

There are also those who would say lizard men from mars are secretly recording them. We can't afford to just fall for what anyone says without independent thought and research.

the prefix ibn IS exceedingly rare in arabic culture.

Now it's just "rare"? a few minutes ago it was unused, and bin Laden was a Jewish spy! See? I think we've grown in this exchange!

i was trying to show a possible link between intelligence agencies with that one.

Yeah, I gathered that. I happen to know better, and am not about to fall for that Tim Osman crap.

you may think nothing of bin ladens living thirty miles outside langley, va, but i find that suspicious.

You're right, I think nothing of it. I used to live around 5 miles from Langley for a while. Maybe you should worry about me, too. Maybe worry about me more, since 5 miles is closer than 30, and I hear that stuff is air borne. I also used to live just across the Jame River from the Norfolk Naval Base. Didn't make me a sailor, though.

i also know that all humans are related to each other, however, when the british royals, the bushes, brad pit, obama, marilyn monroe and cheney are relativly closely related to vlad the impaler(dracula) i find pause in that. it seems by your attack ive struck a nerve. perhaps, good people of ats, some would not like me to share my unorthodox opinion with you all. perhaps its classified?

Yeah. You might just be on to something there. I think you ought to run with it, see what kind of mileage you can get out of my high government double-nought spy security clearances. This time tomorrow, you could have me right at the center of the Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory, if you work diligently spinning it up all night.

Fact is, I DO know a few things. I'm usually pretty open about it, but there are still a couple things I can't really talk about, due to contractual obligations. bin Laden is not one of them. I can tell you for certain that bin Laden refused CIA assistance when he was in Afghanistan in the 80's, when it was offered to him. He brought his share of the bin Laden fortune, and paid his own way.

What REALLY got me going was your Dracula reference. Vlad Tsepes is my hero! How DARE you associate those low-lifes with him!

i have not personally attacked any of the the opinions youve expressed, i would suggest you refrain from doing so as well. wanna argue? go on the bill o'reilly show.

I've not personally attacked you, either. Your opinions? Maybe so. I'm of the notion that if they won't stand up to scrutiny, if you can't defend them, then they might possibly maybe be... unsupportable smoke? If you don't want to discuss them, then putting them out in a discussion forum might not be the best move.

Oh, and O'Reilly told me to go to hell. The man has no taste, eh?

. bin laden received training and weapons from the us when he was fighting the russians. thats a fact. mr. disinfo.... i hope they pay you enough to fill that void in your soul

That's not just a lie, that's a DAMN lie. I've already posted extensively at ATS concerning that particular lie. Show me your evidence to back your tale up as "fact". Show me, I dare ya. I'm not gonna waste the space and effort to re-type all my previous posts on the subject, but just for you, I'll drop in links to a couple of them.

post by nenothtu

post by nenothtu

Those are mostly about the faked story that we supplied the Taliban during the Soviet Afghan War, which is where you get that quaint idea from, but bin Laden is addressed in there too.

You want to call something a "fact". be prepared to back it up by bringing evidence to the table, 'cause you never know when you might get called on it.

Since you've promoted me to "Mr Disinfo", I hope you don't mind if I have my underwear monogrammed with that. I wish someone would pay me to type, period. If they did, I could finally afford name-brand cigarettes.

Don't worry yourself about my soul, it's doing fine, and I don't have to promote falsehoods and unsupportable suppositions to keep it there.

If you decide to reply, would you mind breaking it up into paragraphs, to make it readable?

Originally posted by siahchi
you know what? whatever. trying to get anyone to think outside the box is like trying to do a physics equation with wingdings and emoticons. you all just keep slurping up the "truth" the media feeds you, because of course it re-inforces what you already believe. and why wouldnt it? it formed your opinion for you in the first place. 7/7 and 9-11 had nothing to do with anglo american governments and was perpatrated by people that hate our "freedoms". that look different from us. with a funny language. and different clothes. of course they must be evil! i think ill go eat some mcdonalds now and head to my megachurch in the morning. if i wave my flag hard enough the blood of jesus is going to destroy the infidel heathens and such.

This is prejudiced nonsense and filled with assumptions- the irony is not lost on me I can tell you

Originally posted by siahchi
you know what? whatever. trying to get anyone to think outside the box is like trying to do a physics equation with wingdings and emoticons. you all just keep slurping up the "truth" the media feeds you, because of course it re-inforces what you already believe. and why wouldnt it? it formed your opinion for you in the first place. 7/7 and 9-11 had nothing to do with anglo american governments and was perpatrated by people that hate our "freedoms". that look different from us. with a funny language. and different clothes. of course they must be evil! i think ill go eat some mcdonalds now and head to my megachurch in the morning. if i wave my flag hard enough the blood of jesus is going to destroy the infidel heathens and such.

Gettin' a little hot under the collar there?

Just so you'll know, I didn't get my information or opinions from any sort of "media", I got mine from observation, and in the case of 9-11, extrapolation from what I already knew, plus logic, plus bin-Laden's admission that al-Qaeda did it. It was after that admission that the spurious story of how the CIA armed and trained the Taliban and al-Qaeda was invented, in order to try to tie the governments in to it in SOME way. Now I think the government may have known something was up, but they never engineered it, they just couldn't stop it.

You appear to have too much faith in the competence of your government. They've pulled off some hinky stuff, but nothing on that scale that hasn't leaked.

Folks LOVE to talk.

[edit on 2009/11/7 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by siahchi
you know what? whatever. trying to get anyone to think outside the box is like trying to do a physics equation with wingdings and emoticons. you all just keep slurping up the "truth" the media feeds you, because of course it re-inforces what you already believe. and why wouldnt it? it formed your opinion for you in the first place. 7/7 and 9-11 had nothing to do with anglo american governments and was perpatrated by people that hate our "freedoms". that look different from us. with a funny language. and different clothes. of course they must be evil! i think ill go eat some mcdonalds now and head to my megachurch in the morning. if i wave my flag hard enough the blood of jesus is going to destroy the infidel heathens and such.

This is prejudiced nonsense and filled with assumptions- the irony is not lost on me I can tell you

This whole post has been turned into a great big personal assumption. Based on media sources.

This topic has turned into religious racism.

EDIT: Are you denying ignorance or are you creating ignorance.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66
This whole post has been turned into a great big personal assumption. Based on media sources.

that is a rather big assumption

This topic has turned into religious racism.

I never accept a conscious religious choice as the same as someone being treated differently because of the colour of skin they were born with

EDIT: Are you denying ignorance or are you creating ignorance.
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

perhaps you could ask yourself the same question

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by spy66
This whole post has been turned into a great big personal assumption. Based on media sources.

EDIT: Are you denying ignorance or are you creating ignorance.
[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

perhaps you could ask yourself the same question

Well all i have to say is that i disagree with you. Then tell me. Am i wrong or am i right.

Tell me what the facts are. Why did he kill all these people. And do it with facts please.

Originally posted by spy66Well all i have to say is that i disagree with you. Then tell me. Am i wrong or am i right.

wrong or right about which specific issue/question?

Tell me what the facts are. Why did he kill all these people. And do it with facts please.

The facts are that he murdered his fellow colleagues- the facts are that he shouted a known Arabic and/or Islamic phrase before hand- the facts are he was a Muslim who had issues with the war in Afghanistan (I also have such issues, but I refrain from murdering people)

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by spy66Well all i have to say is that i disagree with you. Then tell me. Am i wrong or am i right.

wrong or right about which specific issue/question?

Tell me what the facts are. Why did he kill all these people. And do it with facts please.

The facts are that he murdered his fellow colleagues- the facts are that he shouted a known Arabic and/or Islamic phrase before hand- the facts are he was a Muslim who had issues with the war in Afghanistan (I also have such issues, but I refrain from murdering people)

Right.

The facts are you have no idea of what really happened apart from that He killed 13 of his colleagues.

The rest is just you making assumptions based on what other might have heard or seen.

You are just like every one else on this topic. Making assumptions based on his background.

Allright I think majority of posts in here has little or nothing to do with the actual event about which this topic was started. It is turning into a muslim-bashing thread. Question is why. Because there certainly are many suspecious things about this shooting. For example: Was Fort Hood Killer On Psychotropic Drugs? Since we know, that almost all of the shooters in USA are on some kind of drugs and were on the day of the shooting just not taking their daily dosage. And we all know that doctors have access to all sorts of drugs and medicaments. Secondly, was he really acting alone? Some tests say that he was NOT!. Actually Texas governeor is pretty convinced that there were 2 shooters!. Well if this story doesn't get just more and more complicated and not simple to understand. AND if he was really an extreemist Muslim in the US Army, then he was definelty under some kind of watch and apparently FBI was given his name 6 months ago and I think they should be able to check out in this time. Or are there many, many home grown terrorists on FBI list and they do not have the time or the money to check out all the stories behind reports? Well in any case, this is certainly not just what we can see and what the mainstream media reports - but it is definetly not helping the current anti-Muslim enviroment in the USA today, as we can see from the replys in this thread. Instread of the mindless bashing, perhaps you guys should explore all the Fort Hood oddities and invest your energy into something constructive.

Originally posted by Souljah
AND if he was really an extreemist Muslim in the US Army, then he was definelty under some kind of watch and apparently FBI was given his name 6 months ago and I think they should be able to check out in this time.

Exactly!

Not only did the dead man come back to life the day after shooting we also have his fellas who claim that he was a terrorist sympathizer in FOX news.His blogs and sites visited also shows the same pattern.

So now he was also under the FBI watch list.

Looking at the fact that he had a High rank in the US army the FBI still didn't bother to chase him down?

Awww, the poor muslim American shooter. he was so persecuted and people made fun of him because he was a muslim. He was just a peaceful muslim. he couldn't take all the bad Americans being mean to him. Awwww, poor guy. Let's have a group hug. Stop picking on him.
*s*

Here is an interesting report on the incident.
The comments are perhaps even more interesting.
www.longwarjournal.org...

Unfortunately our world is not conveniently black and white. To those who argue on one side of the coin, maybe, just maybe, he did have a mental breakdown but his faith was also part of the equation. So a nice shade of gray then...

Also - if you believe the press reports - his stance on Iraq etc was well known and allegedly he had praised suicide bombers. IF this is true, then the military itself is culpable to some degree.
Did he really ask for discharge?
All we have is hearsay at this point but surely he should have been screened at the least.
For those of you in the military, what is the situation with being a conscientious objector? Was this not pursued?

As a result of this incident, the authorities have little choice but to look at all Muslim conscripts.
Sorry if this sounds racist but it is political correctness gone mad not to recognise that Islam is a case on it's own. Countless polls have shown that a substantial percentage of Muslims feel that it is their duty according to the Quran to spread the faith and/or to subdue non believers.

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17)

Yes there are some militant bits in the bible, but Christians are not as likely to give a stuff!

Double care should be taken with recruitment. Many of us, Muslim and non Muslim, don't agree with the current wars or the reasoning behind them. If you can't accept it, don't join up. Simple as.


[edit on 7-11-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 7-11-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 7-11-2009 by unicorn1]

reply to post by unicorn1

Very simply explained in the term: fard ayn.
Like the boxer Muhammed Ali, this guy is not allowed to fight other muslims. And he can use any means necessary to not fight other muslims according to Islamic law.
Muslims go by Islamic law above and beyond American Law or anything else.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Show me where I've made that claim?
Get it together.

Are you drinking?

wow
what a cop out lol

You responded to me saying it's not about religious extremism
I never called you out and only then you responded

I've been saying for so long it's anti foreign-policy sentiment
not religious extremism

but if people knew that it would fuel anti-war sentiment from americans

So you are saying that you agree with me now?
if so then why try refuting me?

Ok anyhow, I guess it's time to give up on the thread
this many pages far, i'm too scared to end up off topic

take care

before I go, any news on the shooter on life support?

[edit on 7-11-2009 by ModernAcademia]

reply to post by unicorn1



God..... People dont even know what weapon the Man used. And we are supposed top believe all this crap. The story goes from 2 shooters to 3. And then from 3 to only one. In the beginning he used a M-16 and now its handguns.

Right!!! this is just great news to believe in.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Proof that there is no such thing as intelligent design.

The word was given in Islam. Prepare to survive. Good luck to all.