Something strange in the book of Enoch- 'The Watchers'? The secrets presrved in heaven....

reply to post by notsympl


The full minutes of the Council of Nicea are written down on paper, what is there to "believe"??

Anyone can read what they convened for and discussed at the Council.

Originally posted by guidanceofthe third kind
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

also in the bible it says "there were giants in the world in those days." so yes, it is possible there were building sized people. i dont know what they mean by giants but it is totally possible

yes, the biggest in the Bible is 13 feet tall, and skeletons back this up. 450 feet is preposterous, and NO skeletons have ever been found larger than 12 feet.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


you might want to consider the fact that it was originally written in Ethiopian, not a very popular language at the time the Bible was compiled

wiki reference

reply to post by NOTurTypical


trust me, i didnt say i believed that there were just saying that it was possible. if pieces of fossils of 40 ft tall sloths have been found, how big would a person be

Originally posted by Unregistered
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Thanks.

So who was it that compiled the Bible (Popular Versions)?

Where do Bible Manuscripts Come From?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


450 feet is overkill i think 25 is the largest uncovered

here's a source with a bit of info
Giants

Originally posted by notsympl
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

you might want to consider the fact that it was originally written in Ethiopian, not a very popular language at the time the Bible was compiled

wiki reference

Dude, remember who Enoch was, and when he lived. He was NOT alive when Moses put together the writings of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Enoch, Isaac, and Jacob into the Book of Genesis. If Enoch authored the Book of Enoch it would have been INCLUDED when he compiled the writings of these men for Genesis!

It's a plagiarized bunch of trash from a pagan who wanted to spread his personal heresies. Nothing more, nothing less. If anyone respected the Book and if anyone had heard of it in the OT it would have been included right alongside the other books of the great prophets of the Hebrews.

reply to post by notsympl
I know, lol the Book of Enoch speaks of giants who were 300 cubits high.

That's the length of Noah's ark! lmao



[edit on 5-11-2009 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


From what I read, it indicated that the Antiochian Bible is the one that was sent and approved by Jesus. Does this include the OT? Does this exclude Revelations and other post-Christ scriptures?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jinx880101

 

Don't be duped my friend... Enoch lived during the time of Genesis, if he wrote that book it would have been in the OT like Jeremiah, Ezekiel, or Isaiah.

The book is no doubt weird and unusual and controversial, even for OT Jews, and it's entirely possible that it's been somewhat supressed due to that fact. Whether actively or otherwise.

And I'm afraid your link is entirely unhelpful. From the link:

A "cubit" is 1.5 feet. The ark which Noah built was 300 cubits long (Genesis 6:15). Do you mean to tell me that some women had children who were as tall as the ark was long? You've got to be joking! Such foolish conjecture is a violation of the simplest teachings of the Bible. In Genesis 6: we read, "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,

The author says 'such foolish conjecture is a violation of the simplest teachings', but never goes on to say what they are. It quotes the Genesis verse that mentions giants, and then quotes another priests interpretation of this verse who says (from the same link):

Then what do we have here in verse 4? As I see it, Genesis is a book of genealogies—it is a book of the families. The sons of God are the godly line who have come down from Adam through Seth, and the daughters of men belong to the line of Cain.

Which is simply an interpretation and clearly explained as such, so where are the 'teachings' that are violated by the concept of giants, also referred to in Genesis?

Without a doubt, the primary claim of the Book of Enoch is that fallen angels had sex with human women and produced 450-feet tall giants upon the earth. This teaching is ridiculous, unscriptural, and has no solid evidence to support it (Biblically or scientifically). This is another good reason why the Book of Enoch should continue to be rejected. It is nonsense.

Ridiculous and unscriptural? Well, the Genesis verse does mention giants, called Nephilim, created by some kind of cross breeding. When the same Nephilim are mentioned later in the bible, in Numbers the Israelites scouts who come across them are said to become "like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."

That seems like some biblical evidence, despite what the author of that page claims, and since when did the Old Testament stories require scientific evidence to be proven scriptural? Just calling something nonsense doesn't make it nonsense.

This was posted in another thread but really belongs here...this is as old as texts get

The Lament (or the apocalypse)
by Hermes Trismegistus translated from Ficino by F.C. Yates
(The Ficino translation is authentic, the guy that did the prior translations popularized in the west took great liberties)
This dates from the time of Zoroaster or perhaps before.
Hermes is also known as Thoth, The High Priest of Egypt. This was Thoth speaking to his son. This may be (c) from the beginning of Egypt..

There will come a time when it will be seen that in vain have the Egyptians honoured the divinity with a pious mind and with assiduous service. All their holy worship will become inefficacious. The Gods, leaving the earth will go back to heaven; they will abandon Egypt; this land, once the home of religion, will be widowed of its gods and left destitute. Strangers will fill this country, and not only will there no longer be care for religious observances, but, yet a more painful thing, it will be laid down under so-called laws, under pain of punishments, that all must abstain from acts of piety or cult towards the gods. Then this holy land, the home of sanctuaries and temples, will be covered with tombs and the dead. O Egypt, Egypt, there will remain of the religion only fables, and thy children in later times will not believe them; nothing will survive save words engraved on stones to tell of thy pious deeds. The Sythian or the Indian, or some other such barbarous neighbor will establish himself in Egypt. For behold the divinity goes back up to heaven; and men, abandoned, all die, and then, without either god or man, Egypt will be nothing but a desert.

Why weep, O Asclepius? Egypt will be carried away to worse things than this; she will be polluted with graver crimes. She, hitherto most holy, who so much loved the gods, only country of earth where the gods made their home in return for her devotion, she who taught men holiness and piety, will give example of the most atrocious cruelty. In that hour, weary of life, men will no longer regard the world as (a) worthy object of their admiration and reverence. This All, which is a good thing, the best that be seen in the past, the present, and the future, will be in danger of perishing, men will esteem it a burden; and thenceforth they will despise and no longer cherish this whole of the universe, incomparable work of God, glorious construction, good creation, made up of an infinite diversity of life forms, instrument of the will of God who, without envy, pours forth his favour on all his work, in which is assembled in one whole, in harmonious diversity, all that can be seen that is worthy of reverence, praise and love. For darkness will be preferred to light; it will be thought better to die than to live; none will raise his eyes towards heaven; the pious man will be thought mad, the impious, wise; frenzied will be thought brave, the worst criminal a good man. The soul and all the beliefs attached to it, according to which the soul is immortal by nature or forsees that it can obtain immortality as I have taught you -- this will be laughed at and thought nonsense. And believe me, it will be considered a capital crime to give onself to the religion of the mind. A new justice will be created and new laws. Nothing holy, nothing pious, nothing worthy of heaven and of the gods who dwell there, will be any more spoken of nor will find credence in the soul.

The gods will separate themselves from men, deplorable divorce. Only the evil angels will remain who will mingle with men, and constrain them by violence -- miserable creatures -- to all excesses of criminal audacity, engaging them in wars, brigandage, frauds, and in everything which contrary to the nature of the soul. Then the earth will lose its equilibrium, the sea will be no longer navigable, the heaven will no longer be full of stars, the stars will stop their courses, and will be silent. The fruits of the earth will moulder, the soil will no longer be fertile, the air itself will grow thick with lugubrious torpor.

such will be the old age of the world, irreligion, disorder, confusion of all goods. When all these things have come to pass, O Asclepius, then the Lord and Father, the god first in power and demiurge of the One God, having considered these customs and voluntary crimes, endeavoring, by his will, which is the divine will, to bar the way to vices and universal corruption ans to correct errors, he will annihilate all malice, either by effacing it in a deluge or by consuming it by fire, or destroying it by pestilential maladies diffused in many places. Then he will bring back the world to its first beauty, so that this world may again be worthy of reverence and admiration, and that God also, creator and restorer of so great a work, may be glorified by the men who shall live then in continual hymns of praise and benedictions. That is what the rebirth of the world will be; a renewal of all good things, a holy and most solemn restoration of Nature herself,...

----------------------
demiurge is an old word for the creator of the universe
if you recognize similar bibilical stories, this was the source for the revelations and predates the old testament. This was typed in by my hand, all typos are my own, for ATS..For more information google: Hermes Trismegistus

Originally posted by Unregistered
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

From what I read, it indicated that the Antiochian Bible is the one that was sent and approved by Jesus. Does this include the OT? Does this exclude Revelations and other post-Christ scriptures?

I'm not sure you read that correctly, when Christ walked the Earth there was only the OT. The Maessoretic Text. He never commissioned the Apostles to spread the gospel of Christ until the time of His resurrection. And the NT books, many of which were written by Paul, Peter, Timothy, James and John were written after Christ died.

Revelation was written in 90 AD. John was given a revelation from Christ while in prison on the island of Patmos.

reply to post by jinx880101
Jinx: The Book of Enoch is referred to twice in the New Testament as I recall; thus seems legit to read it. To your question, to echo others, the fallen angels led by Satan rebelled against God...they and their demon minon are fundamentally rebels. What better way to thwart the Messiah to-come than to mix with the human bloodline. Yes, giants, half man/half beast, DNA experimentation, all the so-called ancient myths. Read Genesis in the Old Testament and you may speculate in the text describing Noah that God found his bloodline alone to be "pure". Everything else on Earth ongoing was perverted, murderously violent, and completely out of control...thus the flood to wipe it all out. Jesus said (not a trite point) that no one can see the Kingdom of God/Heaven UNLESS they are "born again", not thru flesh and blood but thru water and the Spirit? Born again stuff starts to make sense, doesn't it?

It is likely the fallen angels were the source of the heavenly intelligence that propelled the Sumerians et al. As rebels, they are liars, with Satan himself the ultimate. Google and you will find what Jesus had to say. Not surprising they did and do and will take what is God's truth and reverse it, keeping the elements, e.g. creation story, the Trinity, flood etc., with them rather than God in the driver's seat.

I believe as many others that the so-called aliens/ETs that have existed since ancient times, in many variations, are demons. A name given to Satan in the Bible is "Prince of the power of the air". Make sense now? Mark this well people. We need to open our eyes and ears. In the New Test. it says “We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” "High places" as in demonic "air places". Helps to better understand the NWO and Illuminati?

Remember: THEY ARE LIARS. In Matthew 24:24 and elsewhere, we know there will come a time, perhaps in our lives, when a great deception occurs. Let's imagine the deceptive and confusing capacity of an alien invasion with the ETs declaring themselves to be gods, bringing peace, goodwill, technology, clean energy, "enlightenment", and a NWO. Working miracles and astonishing "signs and wonders". And requiring the "mark of the beast" for World commerce. And convincing the vast majority of the World, which in turn will fall into destruction, who do not cling to believing God and no other.

Seek the Truth and never stop seeking. Open your eyes and your hearts to the one who created you. The Bible's not BS folks. Scare yourselves silly now if you have to if it means you will fall on your knees, humble yourself before the one God, and beg that he might save and sustain you and give you Life thru Jesus Christ. Jesus said "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." (Mathew 7:7)

reply to post by jinx880101


I think some confusion exists as to who these "sons of God" are. Most people assume that means angels, but that's not the only way to interpret it. It could also mean those who follow God's laws, as opposed to those who do not. In the New Testament there is a verse that says that angels do *NOT* procreate or mate, which would make sense for heavenly creatures that are spiritual, not physical, in nature.

Still, the reason it would be considered bad for either angels or holy men to mingle with the "commoners" is that it would dilute the holy bloodline. The thinking is that the holy (or angelic) beings wouldn't uplift the common humans, but that the humans would tend to drag the holy ones down. Not sure if I believe a word of it, but it's something to think of.

reply to post by seataka


funny you mention Thoth a.k.a Hermes a.k.a Enoch
here this should explain a few things

The Book of Enoch

crystalk links

reply to post by chiron613


the fallen came to earth in physical form. when Jesus says angels it is a reference to something else. i wonder if someone can find the original words used to describe the two instances, i wonder if they are the same?

I Love This, This is getting so good! You guys are actually using your minds.
Rockstrongo37 Phenomium Angel actually means Messenger

We are not talking about "Son of God", notice lower case "s" not upper case.
We are talking about created beings not God or Jesus. God created these beings. Had you actually listen to the last audio message of Michael Heiser, It would have cleared up this for you. By the way Seth was not a "Son of God", He was not even a good person period.

Seth could not have traveled with Satan, "sons of god" with a small "s"were Fallen Angels. Angels have free will, One third fell with Satan. Check out Job 1:, Don't take my word.

As for how big Giants were. The bible said that Joshua and Caleb looked like grasshoppers to the giants so I guess they must have been pretty big. I like it when Christians flip out because their Pastor was to afraid to preach about this stuff.

Just listen to this and you will understand guys. www.pidradio.com... He is a Christian, I know this really sounds strange. Stay with me before you stone the Messenger. Talk to your Minister behind closed doors and he will tell you I am right. Check out Mikes credentials. He is one of 15 in the world who read the original texts. When you do your studies come back to me :-) Can you defend your faith? "sons of God" came into the daughters of men, that means they had sex. Now look up "sons of God" with a small "s". There is a big difference.

You guys need to check out my references the answers are there.

In response to a question re marriage, Jesus said "For in the resurrection they [humans after death] neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven". Does this it mean that fallen rebel angels could not procreate or manipulate the DNA of flesh and blood on Earth? Genesis says that the "sons of God" came into the "daughters of men". Another place this term is used is in Job: "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them." So could we infer that the term "sons of God" in Genesis indeed means it was the fallen angels who procreated in some way with humans and animals on Earth, with disasterous results?

chiron613, The scripture you are looking for said, Angels were not supposed to be given in marriage. Angels had no reason to have sex like men, They had eternal life, unlike man at the time. These Angels, or Watchers were here to teach man how to eat, drink be sanitary, but they taught men knowledge that God did not want out. It talks about these Angels who fell from their first estate, in Jude. And the leader of them in Rev. These Angels saw men and women having sex and wanted to extend themselves from the Spiritual world into our world. God judged them for this.
It is my opinion that the Watchers and the "Shining ones" who built Sumer, the first civilization know to man, are the same. These Angels released knowledge to mankind. They were the ones who built the pyramids all over the world. We can't duplicate them now. Folks thought they were the real God, because they could fly, It made Yahweh made. I will tell the rest of the story later. Check out the carvings of the "sons of God"

xfacts.com... also check out the earliest depiction of the wheel.