Apollo 12's Covert EVA , Are E.T.'s the reason for the Secrecy ?

Originally posted by easynow

the area that is free of blurring is not always the centre of the frame

yes we already knew that but it doesn't get NASA off the hook.

I didn't understood that you already knew that (and I suppose that by "we" you mean you and LunaCognita).

I alson don't understand why do you say that "it doesn't get NASA off the hook", did you thought that I was implying that?

reply to post by ArMaP

It says 16mm in the description so that's good enough for me, I just didn't have the link you used so thanks for providing that.

Originally posted by ArMaP

I alson don't understand why do you say that "it doesn't get NASA off the hook", did you thought that I was implying that?

Hey Armap,

Why do you think he may have thought you were implying that?


Edit:


Hey Guys!

We all know Richard Dolan Right? (He's only one of the best UFO researchers out there )

Well check it out - here he is singing karaoke....and is that alcohol?! (Wow, just like Bill Cooper...):



*To all of you lazier debunkers, take note of this video. You can use it in your Attack The Messenger routine next time some crazy UFO nut cites Richard Dolan's work. That will win the debate for sure!




[edit on 13-2-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Why do you think he may have thought you were implying that?

Because of the "but" in "yes we already knew that but it doesn't get NASA off the hook".

To me it looked like that "but" was related to my post, but after re-reading it, it now looks like it's related to the knowledge that the blurred area is not always in the centre of the frame.

Originally posted by easynow
yea i agree especially since it's easy to make out those really fine details of the spacecraft on the Lunar surface and the Jaxa images are just so realistic looking

just like "plaster of paris".......

@ 1:34




least astonishing......

www.fi.edu...

Journal contributors René and Jonathan Cantin have been busy again, and this time, to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 8 flight, they have produced a WMV video file that portrays the entire 23-minute 9th orbit TV transmission that climaxed in the crew's reading from Genesis. They have expertly used a split screen to allow the features passing below to be labelled. We are extremely greateful to them for their excellent efforts.

history.nasa.gov... (174 MB)

Originally posted by mcrom901
just like "plaster of paris".......

No, just like a video from a HD camera, speeded up and resized.

If you look at the photos taken by Kaguya of the same areas you can see the difference.

reply to post by ArMaP


any colour versions.......

069:17:35 Borman (onboard): Alright, I'm supposed to - Let's see; 16, 18, new C, exposure, 1/250th; 1 foot per second, one Mag[azine].

[Frank is reading from his column in the Flight Plan. Interpreting the instructions, he is to set up the 16-mm movie camera with an 18-mm lens attached, likely looking out of the left rendezvous window. His next item really means he should use one new magazine of C-EX (colour-exterior SO368) film. The shutter speed should be set to 1/250th second and the camera set to take one frame, not foot, per second. Three additional lenses for the Maurer camera include a 200-mm, a 75-mm and a 5-mm.]

069:17:44 Anders (onboard): [Garble.]

069:17:53 Borman (onboard): Yes, new C.

069:17:55 Anders (onboard): Check.

069:17:56 Borman (onboard): Right.

069:18:08 Lovell (onboard): Hey, you know something; it's gray, huh?

[Presumably Jim means the Moon is gray. That will be his comment to Earth twenty minutes after they regain contact.]

069:18:10 Borman (onboard): Yes.

history.nasa.gov...

[edit on 23/2/10 by mcrom901]

reply to post by mcrom901

Colour Kaguya images? I think they are all greyscale, and I don't know if they have several wavelengths that can be used to make a colour photo, I have to look.

reply to post by ArMaP


are you sure?

then what are we looking at here.......

P-044-14480




P-044-15207




P-044-15208




P-044-15209




P-044-14479

Originally posted by LunaCognita
Apollo 17 LMP Harrison Schmitt, being the only astro-geologist to go to the Moon, has in the years since his mission published several articles in different scientific publications where he describes some of the color observations he made while in lunar orbit. As one example, in the February 1974 issue of Geology magazine, Schmitt wrote an article titled "LUNAR MARE COLOR PROVINCES AS OBSERVED ON APOLLO 17". In this article, Schmitt describes variations in the color on certain areas of the lunar surface. I have a copy of the original article around here somewhere I think, and I should dig it out and scan it. In the meantime, here is the abstract from the article I am referencing.

"LUNAR MARE COLOR PROVINCES AS OBSERVED ON APOLLO 17" Geology; (February 1974; volume 2; issue 2)
"Four major and several minor mare color provinces exist between longitudes 20° W. and 90° E. on the Moon. These provinces were clearly visible to the unaided eye during the Apollo 17 mission when viewed from distances up to a few thousand kilometers. It is probable that the mare color provinces correlate with rather specific compositional differences between mare surfaces."

interesting stuff in the following report too.......

Lunar red spots are features on the nearside of the Moon that are characterized by high albedo and by a strong absorption in the ultraviolet. These red spots include the Gruithuisen domes, the Mairan domes, Hansteen Alpha, the southern portion of Montes Riphaeus, Darney Chi and Tau, Helmet, and an area near the Lassell crater. It has been suggested that many of the red spots are extrusive, nonmare, volcanic features that could be composed of an evolved lithlogy enriched in thorium. In fact, Hawke et al. used morphological characteristics to show that Hansteen Alpha is a nonmare volcanic construct. However, because the apparent Th abundances (6 - 7 ppm) were lower than that expected for evolved rock types, Hawke et al. concluded that Hansteen Alpha was composed of an unknown rock type. Subsequent studies by Lawrence et al. used improved knowledge of the Th spatial distribution for small area features on the lunar surface to revisit the interpretation of Th abundances at the Hansteen Alpha red spot. As part of their study, Lawrence et al. used a forward modeling technique to show that the Th abundance at Hansteen Alpha is not 6 ppm, but is more likely closer to 25 ppm, a value consistent with evolved lithologies. This positive correlation between the morphology and composition of Hansteen Alpha provides support for the presence of evolved lithologies on the lunar surface. It is possible, however, that Hansteen Alpha represents an isolated occurrence of non-mare volcanism. That is why we have chosen to use the forward modeling technique of Lawrence et al. to investigate the Th abundances at other lunar red spots, starting with the Gruithuisen domes. Additional information is included in the original extended abstract.

Revised Thorium Abundances for Lunar Red Spots

cheers

Originally posted by mcrom901
are you sure?

then what are we looking at here.......

Frames from the HDTV camera, not photos, and I was talking about photos.

hmmmm.... how about some data from the galileo spacecraft........

PIA00134



excerpts from report......



Galileo imaging results from the second Earth-Moon flyby

sts-34..... via which the galileo spacecraft was launched also captured the following frame STS034-73-22 off the moon.....



its also interesting to note that frames # STS034-79-28 - 33 have been categorized under "UNKNOWN OBJECT".......

files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by mcrom901

P-044-15207

then what are we looking at here

a simulator ? yes i think so

www.newscientist.com...




i don't see any reason to believe the Jaxa / Selene / Kaguya images are real. i wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that these are images from a simulator and the real images have been kept secret

[edit on 23-2-2010 by easynow]

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by mcrom901
are you sure?

then what are we looking at here.......

Frames from the HDTV camera, not photos, and I was talking about photos.

you mean the hdtv stuff is fake..... but not the 'photos'

Originally posted by mcrom901
you mean the hdtv stuff is fake..... but not the 'photos'

No, follow my posts and you will see that I was saying that the HDTV images don't look fake, they look like what they are, frames taken from a video; any frame from a video always looks worse than a photo with the same resolution and colour depth, as video uses the changes from frame to frame to make the final result it uses less data for each frame than the data used by a photo.

And I don't see any reason why I should doubt Jaxa's and NHK's word that those images are real.

reply to post by ArMaP


oh.... let me see.... you mean that the lunar colour data has been lost in these instances due to...... ....... your explanation in japanese makes more sense.....

としてビデオフレームには、データの写真で使用するよりもフレームごとに以下のデータを使用して最終的� �結果をフレームからの変更を使用してビデオから任意のフレームは、常に同じ解像度と色深度と一緒に写真よ� �も悪いように見える。

seriously.... i really don't know as to which colour observation you're referring to?

Image from the KAGUYA's HDTV (wide angle) -Around the landing site of the Apollo 16-






[edit on 23/2/10 by mcrom901]

Originally posted by mcrom901
oh.... let me see.... you mean that the lunar colour data has been lost in these instances due to......

No, I don't mean that there was any lunar colour data loss, is my English that bad?

If you have any doubt about what I mean just ask. If you don't understand something I wrote just ask, I will gladly try to explain my thoughts better, please don't imply that I meant something else.

So, to make it clear, I don't see any "colour data loss", I don't think that the HDTV images or photos from Kaguya are fake and I don't see why I should mistrust Jaxa.

Is that clear, or must I say it in Portuguese?

Para clarificar a situação, não vejo nenhuma perda de informação cromática, não acho que as imagens de HDTV ou as fotografias da Kaguya sejam falsas e não vejo nenhuma razão para desconfiar da Jaxa.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by mcrom901
oh.... let me see.... you mean that the lunar colour data has been lost in these instances due to......

No, I don't mean that there was any lunar colour data loss, is my English that bad?

then i guess what you meant here......

Originally posted by ArMaP
No, follow my posts and you will see that I was saying that the HDTV images don't look fake, they look like what they are, frames taken from a video; any frame from a video always looks worse than a photo with the same resolution and colour depth, as video uses the changes from frame to frame to make the final result it uses less data for each frame than the data used by a photo.

was.... that though there is some data loss..... its only observable when the 'hdtv captured frames' are compared to 'photo with the same resolution and colour depth'........

but then again...... you also claim that the actual photos are in greyscale....

it seems you missed the last link which i posted......

anyhow.... check here.......

JAXA images

Title : Image of Antoniadi
Day : 2009-04-22
Place :
Category : Moon and Planet Exploration
Mission : Moon
Content :
Photo No. : P-044-16528
Comment :

LINK

Title : HDTV Wide viewing angle "Schrodinger"
Day : 2007-11-10
Place :
Category : Moon and Planet Exploration
Mission : Moon
Content :
Photo No. : P-044-15970
Comment : Wideview image processed by Motomaro Shirao

LINK

so which one is what? i mean photos or frames from hdtv?

or perhaps this should be much easier to pinpoint.......

Image of the Earth taken by the Lunar Explorer KAGUYA's (SELENE's) high vision camera

and here you have 82 pages of the remaining hdtv videos........

LINK

could you point out anything...... that shows the lunar colour?

and here is another of those ones......

AS17-137-20990

A view of the area at Station 4 (Shorty Crater) showing the now highly-publicized orange soil which the Apollo 17 crewmen found on the Moon during the second Apollo 17 extravehicular activity (EVA-2) at the Taurus-Littrow landing site. The tripod-like object is the gnomon and photometric chart assembly which is used as a photographic reference to establish local vertical Sun angle, scale and lunar color. The Gnomon is one of the Apollo lunar geology hand tools.

whats with the freakin reddish tint.......




ntrs.nasa.gov...


[edit on 24/2/10 by mcrom901]

Originally posted by ArMaP
So, to make it clear, I don't see any "colour data loss", I don't think that the HDTV images or photos from Kaguya are fake and I don't see why I should mistrust Jaxa.

well.... here is the infamous 'aristarchus crater' by jaxa's hdtv.......



hmmmm..... does that look 'ok' to you?

10. Aristarchus Plateau (Real Color)

A mosaic of more than 250 images showing the complex and diverse Aristarchus region of the Moon in approximately “natural” colors (blue = 415 nanometers, green = 750 nanometers, red = 950 nanometers). The plateau is an uplifted block of complex, highland terrain, partly flooded by later mare basalt lavas. Dark, pyroclastic glasses partly cover the uplifted terrain. The crater Aristarchus (47 kilometers in diameter) has formed in the southeast corner of the plateau, excavating both highlands and mare rocks.

www.lpi.usra.edu...

ntrs.nasa.gov...

Optics: Meade 10” f/10 LX200GPS UHTC at f/28 with 18mm eyepiece projection.
Camera: Canon D60.
Dates/Times: 20 August 2002.
Location: my backyard observatory in Austin, Texas.
Exposure Details: 17x1sec.
Processing: MaxImDL (align, combine), AIP4WIN (deconvolution), Photoshop (levels, curves, etc.).

www.rc-astro.com...

Scope: TMB 80mm
Barlow: 2.5x barlow
Camera: DMK 41AF02
Filters: Astronomik RGB
Location: Ghent
Exposure:
Remark: The colors of Aristarchus region

www.astronomie.be...

Colorful Aristarchus Plateau

ARISTARCHIAN COLORS

Color effect at Aristarchus and Vallis Schroteri's Cobra Head

"Early in the evening of October 29, 1963, Mr. Edward Barr and I had started our regular lunar observations... When I started to observe at 1830 MST I concerntrated on the Cobra Head of Schroeter's Valley... at 1850 MST I noticed a reddish-orange color over the dome-like structure on the southwest side of the Cobra Head. Almost simultaneously I observed a small spot of the same color on a hilltop across the valley. Within two minutes these colors had become quite brilliant and had considerable sparkle. I immediately called Mr. Barr to share this observation with me. His first impression of the color was a dark orange. No other color spots were noted until 1855 MST when I observed an elongated streaked pink color along the southwest rim of Aristarchus...at approximately 1900 MST I noticed the spots of color at the Cobra Head and on the hill across the valley had changed to a light ruby red...I had the impression that I was looking into a large polished gem ruby but could not see through it. Mr. Barr's impression of the color at this time was that a little more dense than I had described it... By 1905 MST it was apprent that the color was fading".

- Taking Science to the Moon- Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program, by Donald A. Beattie, chapter 2, p. 25

Transcript quote by James Greenacre, employed at the time by th US Air Force Lunar Mapping Program at the Lowell Observatory.

the-moon.wikispaces.com...

and not to forget this classic.......

www.thelivingmoon.com...




[edit on 24/2/10 by mcrom901]