I WILL bash on Obama, every chance I can get.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
Alright, call me an idiot Canadian, but what is so wrong with Socialism? I

Why do you want to go back to unrestricted Capitalism when it destroyed so many lives in the industrial revolution and created the very "bankers" that you believe are controlling your country?

Do you, Americans, really actually believe that people like George W. Bush were good leaders?

Finally, to repeat my initial question, what is wrong with Socialism?

The answer to your socialism question is another question, whats wrong with large corporate monopolies?

You see many evils in corporate monopolies don't you? Banking cartels and Microsoft immediately come to mind. Well in socialism the government becomes an all encompassing monopoly from which you have no redress since it is codified into law. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The government monopoly is far larger and far more powerful. At least with a corporation, a government can require fair markets and honest dealings. There is no redress for wrongs when the government tells you what you can or can't buy.

But that only happens with communism! Obviously you don't know the difference and it would be a waste of time for me or anyone else to explain it to you because you DON'T WANT to know/learn.

You prefer making capitalism look holier-than-water and socialism the equivalent of communism... To be frank with you, even communism is starting to look better and more fair than your so-called capitalism. At least people didn't starve, they had a guaranteed roof over their heads, guaranted job, guaranted education, guaranted vacation, guaranted funeral, etc.

Does capitalism guarantee anything? No because capitalism treats everything AS A PRIVILEGE rather than a BASIC HUMAN NEED! It makes people think that if they are good slaves they will be rewarded with lots of money and prestige...all false illusions.

I believe I've said enough and I wasn't even trying to praise communism because its far from an ideal system when compared to socialism for a plethora of reasons.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


While they don't control every aspect of business, the government exerts far more power than they should and hence, like all large institutions are subject to corruption. Try to understand this. Big government is not more inherently good or evil for that matter than big corporations. However power is corrupting and the more power concentrated in fewer hands, the more dangerous it becomes.

Government controlled education, government controlled healthcare, the government tells you what to watch on TV, tells you what behavior is acceptable, tells you how to think (e.g. worship nature, worship government, despise christianity, accept the dilution and diminution of your culture, accept your role as a wage slave etc. etc.)

You have no idea to the extent that your health care options have been limited because of government control. It's fortunate you've never had any chronic or serious illnesses. America's health care industry is already completely controlled and compromised by the FDA. The system is designed to profit big pharma and your socialist paradises are no different.

The socialist EU elitist government is essentially an unelected bureaucracy. The ills of socialism are very great. Yes capitalism is flawed, but socialism is pure evil power concentrated in the hands of the corrupt.

With the technology today and the knowledge available to you at your fingertips, you could be living like the Rennaissance men of old, if your governments hadn't confiscated all of your net worth and subjugated your minds. I am telling you that your beloved nanny state has stifled your freedoms and made a mockery of it's citizens. All I hear is the programmed braying of slaves and it saddens me.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


oops and in which of the socialist countries did people not starve, China? Russia? It seems starving is what socialism is all about. It's a consequence of massive scale rationing and a few small errors..Don't count on not starving in American socialism. Once you give up your rights and become a non-person your life no longer belongs to you and belongs to corrupt ruthless people who don't care how many starve and don't have to anwer to anybody.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by m khan]

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

While they don't control every aspect of business, the government exerts far more power than they should and hence, like all large institutions are subject to corruption. Try to understand this. Big government is not more inherently good or evil for that matter than big corporations. However power is corrupting and the more power concentrated in fewer hands, the more dangerous it becomes.

Big government is not the real issue my friend. The issue is we have BOUGHT GOVERNMENTS just like you go the butcher store to buy meat or to the fish market to buy fish. America, canada, mexico, european nations, african nations, south american nations...all nations with few exceptions are BOUGHT OUT by the elite families of europe which may even have a reptillian connection.

In theory we need neither a "big government" nor a "small government". We need it big enough to be able to govern society in an effective manner without wasting tax payer money in an overkill scheme.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
Government controlled education, government controlled healthcare, the government tells you what to watch on TV, tells you what behavior is acceptable, tells you how to think (e.g. worship nature, worship government, despise christianity, accept the dilution and diminution of your culture, accept your role as a wage slave etc. etc.)

No that is only true with communism. If you go canada or western europe you will see people live much better than the average american because they are able to balance work with family fun a whole lot easier. There is less pressure to perform, particulary if you work in the government sector.

I have worked for private firms many times and I can tell you your boss can be the biggest prick you will ever meet. Your five minutes late, you didn't talk to the customer right, brake time is only 20 minutes(not 40 minutes), we need to cut down on staff because the economy is lousy...am I talking a foreign language to you?

Believe it or not the stock market is one of the biggest sins toward fellow man ever committed. People invest in the stock market to make money, not to brake even or take a loss. This in turn puts extraordinary pressure on management and staff to perform at the highest level. We don't need this kind of "progress" imo. I think it is a sin to work 50 hours to make the shareholders(or private entrepeneur) wealthy while I only get a flat wage and then have the USA corporate government and state corporate government tax me on those meager wages.

Whats the minimum wage...$6 or $7 an hour IS LOUSY and I don't care if your a high school drop-out, mentally challenged individual or just "unmotivated". EVERYONE deserves a basic amount of respect but ultra-capitalism is designed to function only if your a great slave. And yes you are a slave TO MANY PEOPLE regardless how high you think you are.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
You have no idea to the extent that your health care options have been limited because of government control. It's fortunate you've never had any chronic or serious illnesses. America's health care industry is already completely controlled and compromised by the FDA. The system is designed to profit big pharma and your socialist paradises are no different.

And big pharma does'nt make a profit? Are they the salvation army?

It is true that in reality we don't have TRUE socialism ANYWHERE! It never really existed in the first place! We only had mild capitalism in europe, ultra-capitalism in the USA and communism in russia;don't be fooled with "United Socialist States of Russia" because it was only a euthanism to deceive people. Conversly, Hitler's "NATIONAL socialism" was just an ultra-right wing fascist government.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
The socialist EU elitist government is essentially an unelected bureaucracy. The ills of socialism are very great. Yes capitalism is flawed, but socialism is pure evil power concentrated in the hands of the corrupt.

Government is not inheritantly corrupt. It only becomes corrupt when people are ignorant or apathetic with social issues that are important to everyone. Most people are too busy trying to make ends meet and yes many are living beyond their means and thus have to work many hours overtime just to stay afloat.

Government becomes really corrupt when rich, powerful people manage to somehow infiltrate and more-or-less force their will on our elected representatives. If mr. rockefeller approached you, as senator of alabama, with $2 million and told you to do something highely unethical would you accept? I probably would, because I know everyone else would as well, so why should I be a sucker?! This is the problem with capitalism and to a lesser extent with socialism and communism, when corporations and people GET TO BIG TO FAIL.

My beaf with capitalism is that it provides the unethical foundation for cunning people to get to the top and exploit the less fortunate. With REAL socialism there are restraints which cut down on motivation and keeps everyone in check.

Go ahead and bash me now but don't let religion get in the way. You can be a great christian and a humanist at the same time because the two are not opposites...in fact to be a great christian YOU SHOULD BE A HUMANIST FIRST, nevermind the "I am going to use religion as a tool to exloit others" mentality". Christ would be appalled at such behavior despite the fact that humans are very imperfect creatures to begin with.

End of rant I hope you learned somethng from my lecture...

Government is not inheritantly corrupt.

The American founders thought differently, which is why they said that the government that governs best is the government that governs least. But it really speaks to a foundational difference in philosophy.

The Christian Bible teaches that all men are corrupt and sinners and need an external power, a messiah to redeem them. Socialism, communism, scientific atheism, and humanism etc., all start with the flawed assumption that humans are basically good and therefore a man made utopia is possible, without or even in defiance of God. The latter philosophy is of course championed by our current rulers who are fundamentally Luciferians.

So starting with the flawed assumption that man is perfectable by his own efforts, e.g. via the right education, the right indoctrination etc, it is only reasonable to erroneously believe that a human government can be good and fair.

A proper assessment of the human condition however says that our best bet is to limit the power and scope of large institutions so that the damage that they do is limited. That is why the us founding fathers created a government with limited power and limited rights, but all rights are otherwised retained by the people. That concept has been destroyed of course via years of careful Luciferian indoctrination. Thus we have so many in Western civilization who actually think that socialism and even communism is a good thing. All those utopian 'isms will lead to tyranny. Just watch and see.

Check out this video of Obama getting snubbed

www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by Common Good

So remember this, before you bash on me for having my own opinion, just find out what it is that YOU are really concerned with and voice yours. If you are NOT mad at the direction this country is going, then YOU sir/maam, are not doing enough.

I get it now.This is just you-doing your part.. for.. the country.. ??

Right?

Good job then,well done

reply to post by ProjectJimmy

I would rather my healthcare be under the the control of an elected government that I have a vote in over a for-profit corporation that I have no say over the control of.

Wow.

I might have to PAY to go to a Dr,but I can choose who,where,when,why,and what the hell for.I don't have to go on a waiting list.

Our health care is expensive,but it's still our choice.

BTW-Your Gov't IS FOR profit !!

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Government is not inheritantly corrupt.

The American founders thought differently, which is why they said that the government that governs best is the government that governs least. But it really speaks to a foundational difference in philosophy.

Indeed!

Originally posted by SevenThunders
The Christian Bible teaches that all men are corrupt and sinners and need an external power, a messiah to redeem them. Socialism, communism, scientific atheism, and humanism etc., all start with the flawed assumption that humans are basically good and therefore a man made utopia is possible, without or even in defiance of God. The latter philosophy is of course championed by our current rulers who are fundamentally Luciferians.

So you either believe in god(via different messiahs) or the devil?

What happened to "I believe both exist and each serves a purpose"? If you do good you go to heaven, if you are a notorious sinner you go to hell and for everyone else there is pergatory.

Personally I rather remain neutral or to put it better...FREE WILL! Humans were not intended to be perfectly good or perfectly evil...hence the term YING-YAN! Balance and harmony are always preferrable to the opposite extremes. When you clinch to a certain philosophy/dogma you lose your identity and become a sheep. Hence why science and most left movements tend to frown upon organised religion.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Seven Thunders: "Is that what ATS has become, a christian fundamentalist hate group trying to convince everyone muslims are evil and must be destroyed??? Get over your sick ass agenda and open your eyes to see the world for what it truely is my sick friend!"

I had to reply when I saw this. You're so naive. I am neither Christian nor Jew. I am not a member of any organized religion. But Pat Robertson nailed it when he said "Islam is not a religion, it's a violent, totalitarian political system disguised as a religion." Robertson cut right thru the bs to the truth. Islam's end goal is nothing less than the total conquest & control of the world. They're doing a pretty good job of it. And naive people like you help.

The Christian Fundies are about the only group in the world that is aware of just how dangerous Islam is. There is little else that I agree with them on, but this.

It is against the law to criticize either Muhammad or the Qu'ran in Islamic countries. Not just fines & prison, but even death in the more extreme countries. Why do you think that is?

Because in a truly free country where open discussions are permitted, Muhammad & the Qu'ran would be shredded.

That's why they try to get the host country to pass laws to make it illegal to use terms like "Islamic Terrorist" They try to make Shariah laws take precedence over the civil laws of the land -- all under the guise of "religious freedom." It's happening in the US.

Europe is all but lost to Islam, thanks to the political correctness of Social Democrats. Read "While Europe Slept" written by a Gay American man, definitely NOT a Fundamentalist Christian.

Read about the life of Muhammad & the Qu'ran. Please. It always amuses me to see naive people defending Islam when it's clear they haven't a clue as to what Islam is really about. You assume (as so many do) that Islam is a true spiritual path, a religion.

Do not confuse Islam with Sufism, a genuine spiritual path. Sufism was already ancient before Muhammad was born. There are over a hundred different Sufi orders, some have been hijacked by Islam. Some Muslims think Sufism is an Islamic creation. No. True Sufism is not aligned with any organized religion. Beware of any Sufi order that demands that you convert to Islam -- its lost its way.

Islam is one of the most dangerous totalitarian systems in the world now, even more dangerous than Communism.

Wake up.

reply to post by Astroved


I guess if people try hard enough, they will always find an enemy. It's either communism, socialism, gays, islamic "terrorists", aliens from mars, democrats, etc.

check out what happend ... Seems Bush Flunked Physics and so did Obama and his menions.

media.abovetopsecret.com...

So you would rather see Him and your COUNTRY suffer and fail than See him succeed ...

Mmm .. that is very PA-TRIO-TIC?