A dissertation on Space and Time

Originally posted by buddhasystem
OK, you stage a series of scattering experiments and the particle behaves like a point charge. What do you call that?

I would say that your particle is behaving like a point charge in your experiments. I have seen people behave like drunken idiots even though that is not what they really were.

Seriously though, try and locate a single point of mass. You end up with a lot of empty space and vibrating sub-atomic strings that are somehow all connected to each other. How can all of these vibrating strings in the Universe be connected to each other?
Personally I find this part of the concept real simple to understand. Matter is made up of waves (oscillating strings) and the source of these waves is an Aether energy or a Luminiferous Aether. I suppose you could call it the continuum, dark energy or even Quintessence if you like.

This is the hard part, getting over the particle=ball concept. It has been instilled into our brains and is a poor concept.

There is no single point of mass, everything is made up of waves.
There are no particles, photons are a concept to help us understand light.
Light is energy emitted as EM waves, light propagates in a wave-it does not propagate itself.
Mass is a pressure wave that is resisting a gravitational collapse. Do you think atoms are just sitting there not moving? When you overcome this pressure you get a fusion reaction.
The compression in a wave length is the resistance to acceleration (Inertia) and the trough or rarefaction is the resistance to a change in velocity (Momentum).

Try and find a particle, or a little round ball of light (a photon), or a graviton, or show how light can propagate itself through duality and yet not be in two places at the same time. Even the idea of particle-wave duality is describing oscillating motions. Try to describe any motion that is not circular or oscillating. Can anything actually travel in a straight line without being effected by something else?

Quantum mechanics is stuck, String theory is stuck, M-theory or Membrane theory is stuck, the Big Bang theory is failing miserably, the search for dark matter, dark energy, gravity waves and neutrinos has continually turned up empty handed.

********This is a Junk Science*********

Take my critique of the OP (above) and pick it apart.

I reread some of your "critique" of the OP and all I see is what appears to be a lack of understanding on the subject. I'll read through it again when I get more time to try and understand why I see this and find your critique.

[edit on 11/6/2009 by Devino]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Why does want one to declare the "proton/neutron frequency" (whatever the heck it means) the fundamental harmonic of the Universe?

I don't know if I understand this declaration completely but the harmony between protons and neutrons is what makes Mass. It is electricity, not little round balls.

In electronic currents there is a positive and a neutral, there is no negative. I have never wired anything in either high voltage or low voltage that required a negative charge, trust me I have strung up my share of both types of wiring. All grounds are neutral! DC current is different but the ground is still neutral, a dead battery is neutral.

To bring my point home, all of these are oscillating forces. Waves of energy.
Protons and neutrons are the oscillating waves that create the electron field, this describes an electrical power source very well.

Originally posted by Devino
the source of these waves is an Aether energy of a Luminiferous Aether. I suppose you could call it the continuum, dark energy or even Quintessence if you like.

I don't like pompous words thrown around that do not lead to an actual theory that can be matched by a concrete experiment.

This is the hard part, getting over the particle=ball concept. It has been instilled into our brains and is a poor concept.

Speaking of my brain, it was never instilled there. It can be hard for some.

Light is energy emitted as EM waves, light propagates in a wave-it does not propagate itself.

Doesn't make sense.

Mass is a pressure wave that is resisting a gravitational collapse.

Ditto.



"Mass is asparagus. Electric charges are radishes." That sounds even better!

Absolutely wonderful post enjoyed reading it ! S&F

In reference to matter and anti matter . Would you consider dark to be the negative speed of light? Same speed only reversed?

Thank you for posting you really got me thinking.

-Al

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I don't like pompous words thrown around that do not lead to an actual theory that can be matched by a concrete experiment.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Speaking of my brain, it was never instilled there. It can be hard for some.

That is good, I think. But I wasn't referring to instilling brains, just a concept. I guess I don't know what you meant by that.

Doesn't make sense.

This also doesn't make any sense.

Ditto.
"Mass is asparagus. Electric charges are radishes." That sounds even better!

You lost me again, I was hoping for some good replies but I am lost. What I have been presenting are my opinions on the subject matter and the points at which I disagree and why. What I read in your posts is what you don't like and even that isn't very clear, I fear that if you were to remover all of the ambiguity from your replies then there would be nothing left.

I am interested in your opinion but I need it to be clear so I can understand what your point is. After all that is why I am here, understanding.

[edit on 11/6/2009 by Devino]

Originally posted by Devino

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Why does want one to declare the "proton/neutron frequency" (whatever the heck it means) the fundamental harmonic of the Universe?

I don't know if I understand this declaration completely but the harmony between protons and neutrons is what makes Mass. It is electricity, not little round balls.

In electronic currents there is a positive and a neutral, there is no negative. I have never wired anything in either high voltage or low voltage that required a negative charge, trust me I have strung up my share of both types of wiring. All grounds are neutral! DC current is different but the ground is still neutral, a dead battery is neutral.

Sorry but both AC and DC can and do have negative voltages in addition to positive and neutral or ground.

You never built a PC? That uses positive, ground, neutral, and negative voltages in a DC power supply:

The voltages produced by AT/ATX/ATX-2 power supplies are:

www.helpwithpcs.com...

* +3.3 Volts DC (ATX/ATX-2)
* +5 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)
* -5 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)
* +5 Volts DC Standby (ATX/ATX-2)
* +12 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)
* -12 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)

You never plugged in a 240 volt electric dryer? That has a +120v, a neutral, and a -120V source in the wall outlet you plugged it into.

--------------------------

Regarding the OP, I had a couple of questions/observations.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
"it is entirely plausible that matter is a trapped wave of electromagnetic energy, trapped by some harmonic resonance inherent in the continuum"

An interesting and thought provoking idea, but is this just an abstract concept or is there any existing evidence for this, or any experiments that could be carried out to confirm this?

"Now that we have established the probable existence of something that occupies what we know as 'empty' space, we must determine what that something is."

It's not entirely clear to me how that was established, if it was. The only thing I could come up with is the rubber analogy: "hold a strip of rubber between your hands, with each end in each hand. Now pull on the rubber. You will feel the rubber trying to pull your hands back together. This is the same thing we feel when we experience gravity, except the rubber is invisible to us." and an implication that something must be replacing the rubber for gravity to work.

"This also means that since black holes are a function of the sheer mass of a particle (singularity), the concept of 'mini black holes' is a misnomer. A particle cannot be massive and still be light."

It's not a question of whether it's massive and light. It's a question of density and the size of the Schwarzchild radius. If matter is extremely dense it's conceivable there could be a tiny black hole, however I think it would be more accurate to state that miniature black holes are probably not stable (If for example one was created in the LHC it wouldn't last) but I don't necessarily think it follows that because it's unstable, that calling it a mini black hole is a misnomer.



[edit on 6-11-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Sorry but both AC and DC can and do have negative voltages in addition to positive and neutral or ground.

It's my understanding that the negative value is rather a differential to the amount of positive. I think this is called, "total local thermodynamic potential". Or in other words the negative can never be greater than the positive in a power supply yet there can be a greater positive potential. This is a fancy way of saying there is only a positive potential and a neutral. Electricity flows in one direction only.

# -5 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)
# +5 Volts DC Standby (ATX/ATX-2)
# +12 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)
# -12 Volts DC (AT/ATX/ATX-2)

The -5 and -12 Volts DC are simply grounding out the electrical potential through some resistance.

You never plugged in a 240 volt electric dryer? That has a +120v, a neutral, and a -120V source in the wall outlet you plugged it into.

I have wired up many 240v AC services for all kinds of appliances and there is no negative value. There are two hot wires (Black and Red) that are both 120v but are slightly out of phase from each other @60 Hz. They are both hot and register 120v @60Hz, touch either one to a ground will prove that they are hot.

When the Red wire is pushing 120v the Black wire is in rarefaction and acting like a neutral wire. Then when the Black wire is pushing 120v the Red wire is the neutral, and this happens 60 times per second (alternating current).

AC Volt testers measure positive current only and this must be in a closed circuit (uninterrupted).
DC Volt meters will only read a value when there is an electrical potential and can read a negative value by reversing the polarity (swapping the tester probes). There is no real negative value.

I do not have a -24 Volt battery but if I did I think we could really light things up with an opposing 24 Volt battery. This might be the point of the OP in the "Matter / Anti-Matter" idea.

Originally posted by Devino

"Mass is asparagus. Electric charges are radishes." That sounds even better!

You lost me again, I was hoping for some good replies but I am lost. What I have been presenting are my opinions on the subject matter and the points at which I disagree and why.

Look... Here's one of the things you posted:

To bring my point home, all of these are oscillating forces. Waves of energy. Protons and neutrons are the oscillating waves that create the electron field, this describes an electrical power source very well.

I call it nonsense. My "asparagus" line (which of course was a jest) makes about as much sense. Neutron is an oscillating wave that creates the "electron field"? Puh-leeze.

If you are serious about learning, have patience and buy some decent college level books, and be sure to do problems at the end of each chapter. Taking shortcuts to some "novel" view of the Universe by throwing around words like "waves", "oscillations" and "electron fields" doesn't get you very far.

n/m

[edit on 11/10/09 by MrDesolate]

Originally posted by Devino
It's my understanding that the negative value is rather a differential to the amount of positive. I think this is called, "total local thermodynamic potential". Or in other words the negative can never be greater than the positive in a power supply yet there can be a greater positive potential. This is a fancy way of saying there is only a positive potential and a neutral. Electricity flows in one direction only.

When the Red wire is pushing 120v the Black wire is in rarefaction and acting like a neutral wire. Then when the Black wire is pushing 120v the Red wire is the neutral, and this happens 60 times per second (alternating current).

I'm going off topic here for a moment but...

A DC power supply can indeed have negative voltages. This is nothing fancy, the negative voltage is measured with respect to the 0V on the supply. So if a supply has +12V and -12V outputs then the potential difference between them is 24V, the PD between +12V and 0V is 12V and between -12 and 0V is -12V. You could power a 12V device by using the -12V as negative and 0V as positive.

As above, it is possible to have a power supply with +1VDC and -1000VDC outputs the positive and negative values are not limited by anything.

I'm not sure what a "240V electric dryer" with three wires is but I would guess this is 3 phase AC. Three phase AC doesn't need a neutral to work - there are 3 AC phases that are 120 degrees out of phase. In the US, the AC voltage between a single phase and neutral / earth would be 120V but between any pair of phases the voltage would be about 210V but this may be decribed as a 240V device.

AC voltage does indeed go negative. A 120VAC supply will vary from zero to about +170V for the first half of the cycle and from zero to -170V for the second half of the cycle. The peak-to-peak voltage is therefor 340V and the average is zero.

Hope this helps

[edit on 10/11/2009 by LightFantastic]

Just so no one thinks I have abandoned this thread...

I recently have had some serious health concerns that have forced me to forgo my normal activities. I will be back as soon as possible, and I am in no way ignoring anyone.

I thank everyone who has posted here, and I look forward to continuing this discussion with all of you, just as soon as possible.

TheRedneck

reply to post by LightFantastic

I am glad you brought this up, and I think this is on topic.

So if a supply has +12V and -12V outputs then the potential difference between them is 24V,

Can you show an example of this? I just don't understand how a 12V battery can produce 24V. If I am wrong here and you can show an example I would be very interested.

I have wired up some low voltage systems for alarms, fire and irrigation but not so much electronics. All of the power sources that I have worked with have an electrical potential (in the positive) that can be measured, I have never heard of getting 24V out of a 12V battery. A wet cell battery has 2V DC per cell and with 6 cells you can read up to almost 14V DC, no negative values. Furthermore I have never measured a negative volt in AC and any DC negative numbers were due to reversing the polarity.

I'm not sure what a "240V electric dryer" with three wires is but I would guess this is 3 phase AC. Three phase AC doesn't need a neutral to work

240V AC is two phase, three phase electrical services are for heavy industrial use but you're correct in a sense that they do not need the neutral wire but they do need a neutral line. They use the opposing power wire when it is out of phase as a neutral. Two 120V alternating current wires will make 240V AC, no negative values and it does not add up to 480V.

In the US, the AC voltage between a single phase and neutral / earth would be 120V but between any pair of phases the voltage would be about 210V but this may be decribed as a 240V device

The service here is 120V AC 3 phase at 60 Hz, 120V minus the resistance (I'm reading 118 to 119V). Electricity experiences friction loss just like water does.

Thank you for the reply, you got me thinking about this and looking for a negative.

Originally posted by Devino
[Can you show an example of this? I just don't understand how a 12V battery can produce 24V. If I am wrong here and you can show an example I would be very interested.

Furthermore I have never measured a negative volt in AC and any DC negative numbers were due to reversing the polarity.

240V AC is two phase....

Hi Devino

A 12V battery can't directly produce 24V but if you wire two 12V batteries in series and use the wire where you connect the two together as 0V then one free battery terminal will then be 12V and the other -12V, with respect to the 0 volts.

+(1)

-(2)
|---------(5)
+(3)
< 12V Battery 2>
-(4)

In the "diagram" above, if you can make sense of it, the voltage between (1) & (5) will be 12V and between (5) and (4) will be -12V.

Your AC meter won't show a negative voltage but you will notice it doesn't show a positive voltage either. What it shows with a sine wave supply is the peak positive going waveform voltage averaged with the absolute value (without the minus sign) of the peak negatve going waveform multiplied by the square root of 2.

Thus the formula becomes ((170(positive) + 170(negative)) /2) x 0.707 = 120VAC. Some cheaper meters cheat and only use the positive side of the waveform and assume that the wave is a perfect sine wave with no DC offset. Meters that measure AC correctly are usually labelled "True RMS" meters.

Because the average voltage of AC with the same magnitude positive and negative peaks is zero the Root Mean Square (RMS) method above is used to assign a meaningful voltage

Two phase AC eh, we don't use that in the UK to my knowledge. This wouldn't require a neutral to work but could use it for certain configurations. With two phase each hot line will be a standard 120VAC line but the waveforms will be 180degrees out with respect to each other. That means that when when supply is positive the other will be negative by the same voltage. The voltage difference between them is then doubled, giving 240VAC RMS and a peak differential voltage of 340V.

Two phase will be used in the US because the mains voltage is lower so thicker cable will be required to carry the same power than higher voltage systems. Increasing the effective voltage using two phases is the simple solution.

I couldn't find a decent link explaining all this well but this is ok: AllAboutCircuits

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Hey Bhudda did you get out of bed on the wrong side on the day you wrote your posts?

Whilst you are technically correct in your replies with respect to the Standard Model your replies were a little caustic and some where uncalled for.

Despite the holes in Redneck's thought experiments with respect to known science I still found his ideas interesting and some along the same lines as my own thinking.

reply to post by LightFantastic


Hi LightFantastic,

I have a practical yet limited understanding of electricity, I can wire your house and RV trailer but I'm lost when it comes to electronics and the concept of "negative" volts. My understanding of negative is based on what I call the false concept of "cold" or "dark" (there are only heat energy and light which are both electro-magnetic waves).

I view all of the energy in the Universe as a potential with no actual negative (negative being the absence of). We use the concept of negative to help describe an understanding of "the lack of" and in itself does not exist. Mathematics uses this concept and I'm trying to understand how this effects my previous view.

The sin wave is showing a push from a force that causes an action due to inertia creating amplitude then a reaction as the wave relaxes (rarefaction) and catches up to the acceleration. This action/reaction is an elastic motion, push and then relax-amp and then trough. The energy from a force only pushes, never pulls.

Thanks for the help, I read your link and now I need time to sort it out. I very much appreciate the positive impute.

Originally posted by LightFantastic
Hey Bhudda did you get out of bed on the wrong side on the day you wrote your posts?

On the contrary, I feel jovial and energized

Whilst you are technically correct in your replies with respect to the Standard Model your replies were a little caustic and some where uncalled for.

a) I never even quite went into the Standard Model. When people are saying that neutron is the fundamental frequency of the Universe which causes an electron field to appear, and it's all similar to AA battery, or stuff of that nature, obviously they are not equipped to begin the discussion of the Standard Model.

b) you are damn right I was caustic. Further, I have every right to be. If we discuss science, let's do science and not wonder how "lumineferous ether" vibrates to produce protons and neutrons (which again, aren't elementary particles to begin with).

Despite the holes in Redneck's thought experiments with respect to known science I still found his ideas interesting and some along the same lines as my own thinking.

Let's turn from "thought experiments" (which I don't think were such as there wasn't a lot of thought there) to real experiments. I would like to know how any of the "theories" brought up in this thread explain hard scattering of electron on a proton. Complete with fragmentation of a scattered quark etc. In passing, you may want to comment on how, in your opinion, vibrating neutrons generate an "electron field".

Originally posted by Devino
I have wired up many 240v AC services for all kinds of appliances and there is no negative value. There are two hot wires (Black and Red) that are both 120v but are slightly out of phase from each other @60 Hz

They are not "slightly out of phase". They are 180 degrees apart, otherwise you would never get 240V out of two 120V lines. See the graph below and pay attention to "A" and "C" as seen from the ground:

en.wikipedia.org...

---

< br /> ---

When the Red wire is pushing 120v the Black wire is in rarefaction and acting like a neutral wire.

In face of the evidence above, this is wrong. Black is not neutral and registers an instant 120V of opposite polarity.

AC Volt testers measure positive current only and this must be in a closed circuit (uninterrupted).

There is no "positive" or "negative" AC. It oscillates about zero and constantly changes polarity.

This might be the point of the OP in the "Matter / Anti-Matter" idea.

You don't seem to master basic electricity very well, so hold off the "antimatter" thing.


[edit on 11-11-2009 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
They are not "slightly out of phase". They are 180 degrees apart, otherwise you would never get 240V out of two 120V lines. See the graph below and pay attention to "A" and "C" as seen from the ground:
< br />

Did you notice that the graph in the image is incorrect? Basically the y axis is out by a factor of 1/SQRT(2)

Originally posted by LightFantastic
Did you notice that the graph in the image is incorrect? Basically the y axis is out by a factor of 1/SQRT(2)

The scale of the Y axis (voltage) is ok as relative values are concerned. There is no absolute calibration for the scale of the graph.

What matters is the 180 degree phase difference, and the fact that polarities alternate, both of which were royally missed by one of the local "experts".

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by LightFantastic
Did you notice that the graph in the image is incorrect? Basically the y axis is out by a factor of 1/SQRT(2)

The scale of the Y axis (voltage) is ok as relative values are concerned. There is no absolute calibration for the scale of the graph.

What matters is the 180 degree phase difference, and the fact that polarities alternate, both of which were royally missed by one of the local "experts".

I wouldn't call it ok as the values show on the graph correspond with the value in the text, giving the reader a false impression of the amplitude of AC waveforms with respect to the RMS value. But yes, the scaling is the same.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say something was missed by one of the local experts.

Anyway you needn't have bothered with your post to devino - if you look above I had already given him the same info as you.

I think I will pass on the oscillating neutron electron field though.