You dont know anything about us

Originally posted by rogerstigers
You know, I have to respect the experiment that made the United States. I think the Constitution was well put together and well thought out. It has served as a fine model for a government that has had promise. And to be frank, a lot of mankind's technological and humanitarian progress can be attributed to the way that the United States has operated for it very short life span.

Taking the Constitution as a point-of-orientation things would start getting better quickly. The Constitution answers all the questions politicians appear to be struggling with these days.

What the Constitution failed to include is a big fat red flashing reset button. *shrug*

All that is needed is a re-read, a refreshers course on the Constitution so to speak. The more politics drifts away from the basic point of reference, the more lost it gets.

It should not EVER guarantee happiness and success -- or even survival. It should provide only the freedom for each human to achieve it. Anything more or less than that leads to slavery.

Yes. I dont take quite as dim of a view of the U.S. and its politics as Blogosphere and ATSsphere does though. Government-hatred is a graver problem than the Government itself, imo.

Life should NOT be easy. Life should be hard and challenging. That is how we as humans learn and grow.

Yes.

Look at our American culture these days. Fat, lazy, tv and video game zombies. We revel in trivial, materialistic rubbish, pretending that we are being "bad" and then run off to church once a week to get a new meal pass for the week. The sense of personal responsibility, not for one's actions -- for one's LIFE, has withered away from a lack of effort.

The U.S. Populace had become a bit too comfortable in their TV-Chair. Which is why I applauded a little bit of economic-crisis - as a wake-up call.

You can leave and back pack across the world. You can explore and learn." Money and material are tools, not goals.

Ok, so that's my rant. That's why I consider myself a bit anarchist. I think it is time for a see change and a tearing down of the walls. These political games are useless distractions.

I understand. But I insist that flying is easier from a stable platform. Backpacking without any money or personal belongings is a fantastic experience...but so is coming back home into orderly/safe (non-anarchic) circumstances.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When I take those ideology tests, I end up in the Left Libertarian area. I'd love to see a viable Libertarian candidate!

Me too. But I always end up in the right-libertarian area. So not even Liberatrians can escape the great divide

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I understand. But I insist that flying is easier from a stable platform. Backpacking without any money or personal belongings is a fantastic experience...but so is coming back home into orderly/safe (non-anarchic) circumstances.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Heh, thanks for putting up with the rant. I agree.. sometimes starting from a known good starting point and moving forward is a smart idea. The backpacking idea is part of a conversation I have had with both my son and my daughter to illustrate to them that any perceived limitations on their life is strictly in their mind.

I would completely start from scratch myself..dissolve the union and start over... But then that's also why I am not leading some great revolution. The great thing about having various differant philosophies is that with all sides tugging on each other, you must step carefully and slowly in order to move. It helps to keep things in check. Somewhere along the line, though, our politicians tied their rope to a tree and went out for cocktails.

Cheers!

Originally posted by rogerstigers
I would completely start from scratch myself..dissolve the union and start over...

The main reason I am not of the far-left and also no anarchist is because they always assume something is wrong. I prefer politics based on vision rather than on protest. And while it is true that one thing or the other is wrong with our world there are also plenty of things that are right.



Other than that...I agree with your backpacking-sentiments very much.

[edit on 4-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

I agree with the statements you have outlined. The problem I have is that after countless Presidents and countless promises, of both the Dem's & Rep's, we always in the end have been lied to. So, in light of that, one has to come to the conclusion that they are in it together and are just snickering behind closed doors at the people.
The questions of why comes up to often.....and there tends to be no logical answers. I could list all the why's, but I feel you know them just as well as I do.
I truly hope the People can take back the control of OUR government peacefully, through the right channels. I just have this feeling deep in my heart that it is too late for that. TPTB have too much power and will not give it up, or should I say, back to the People.
I wish it were easy to say I am this or I am that, but what we all sometimes forget is that we are Americans first. And what this corrupt government is doing to our country is unacceptable, period. I am not talking about the current puppet, I am talking about the last 40+ years of the slow decay of our sovereignty, at least since I've been around.

I think my ranting is over for the moment, as I could go on and on, to no end, regarding this topic.

Peace!

Originally posted by Skyfloating


The preferred self-view of many Republicans: Self-Responsibility, Industriousness, Valor, Uprightness, Decency, Reliability, Firmness, Spiritual Ethics, Strength, Courage, Respect towards Family, Community, Country, Productive, Straightforward, Small Government, Self-Sufficient, Freedom, Privacy.

The projected prejudical view of the Left: Pansy, morally relativistic, weak, cry-baby, lazy, naive, authority-hating, success-hating, PC, not-straightforward, recipe-for-poverty and crime, loss of law and order, etc.

Of course those projected views are distortions/exaggerations. But that will give you an idea of why many liberal-minded people in the U.S. actually give their vote to Republicans.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

While that may be the the self-view of Republicans, it is certainly at odds with Republican behavior. Most Republicans I've known personally demand personal accountability for everyone but themselves, demand special treatment, have stiffed US veterans every chance they get, value cash in hand over family values, demand strict obedience to authority (as long as it is their approved authority), enforce those laws they like, ignore those they don't, are unwilling to pay a fair share, or to aid their fellow citizens in need. Most revere anyone who is wealthy, no matter how poor a parent, citizen, or human being: wealth is their only touchstone for worth. Most are pretty ignorant and are very proud of their ignorance. Selfishness is rampant among them. Pretty much all are two-faced; for instance, most will talk reverently about the "sanctity of contracts" while blithely demanding that union renegotiate every time management screws up, without once thinking of the disparity between word and deed..

Sorry, but I personally have never seen a Republican adhere to any of the characteristics you listed. If you think they do, you either practice self-delusion or you know an enclave of Republicans I've never met, seen or heard rumor of in my lifetime.

I am Native American and do adhere to most of those values you listed, most of my Republican friends think I should abandon my disabled brother to the state so that I can improve my personal economic position, and have frankly told me they would dump him in a heartbeat if they were in my position, calling me weak and soft for caring too much about someting other than myself. Their view is that he should sink or swim on his own.

And no I'm not a Democrat or a "leftist" (whatever that may be). I'm simply a human being who tries as hard as he can to take care of his family (not just my offspring), his community, and his people, without striving to have the most, be the wealthiest, or have the most power.

So I have to disagree with you. Republicans are delusional, for the most part. They elevate greed into a virtue, use "self-sufficiency" to abandon responsibilities, and seem to believe that kidnapping, torture, and aggression are okay if done in the name of profit. They've ruined the country by refusing to employ Americans while demanding Americans pay for their mistakes, over-reaches, and international outlawry. If they truly believed in pay-as-you-go and personal responsibility, why aren't they supporting tax increases to support the wars they've started and failed to finish? Why didn't they let the "free market" and capitalism deal with the gamblers who wrecked our economy? They're all for 3-strikes and locking people up except when it comes to financial crimes by their favored elites.

I dislike Republicans not because I don't know them or have misunderstood them or because I'm a member of some other party. I dislike them because in my lifetime I'm found them to be mean, petty, ignorant, selfish, deceitful, intolerant, and lustful of power over others, power they usually use to harm, not help.

The problem is that you say you are a Libertarian yet continue voting Republican.

You may have all of those beliefs which are fine (and I disagree with some of them), but the problem is that you are not truly supporting them...

Just my opinion

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
The problem is that you say you are a Libertarian yet continue voting Republican.

You may have all of those beliefs which are fine (and I disagree with some of them), but the problem is that you are not truly supporting them...

Just my opinion

Im supporting that which more closely agrees with my values.

Originally posted by ufoptics
The problem I have is that after countless Presidents and countless promises, of both the Dem's & Rep's, we always in the end have been lied to.
TPTB have too much power and will not give it up, or should I say, back to the People.

If you say we have always been lied to by "TPTB" you are talking from an emotionally-charged anti-establishment viewpoint. While appropriate for other forums/threads I dont think they are helpful for political discourse. The country is already divided/paranoid enough.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Excellent post

Americans are so alike in so many ways but we're so ready to get caught up in the little political differences, in the labels, stereotypes, fringe issues and false paradigms. Its good to see someone who actually has educated opinions that don't have to follow a rigid platform.

Too many are political zombies who leap aboard a party bandwagon and immediately adopt an ideology or platform without doing any critical thinking or looking at other options. They blindly believe whatever party leadership decides to spoon out to them.

It is good to know there are free thinkers willing to look outside the box. This nation might just have a chance if we Americans stop squabbling and come to some Consensus on the issues that matter or at the very least agree to disagree

No man undertakes a trade he has not learned, even the meanest; yet every one thinks himself sufficiently qualified for the hardest of all trades - that of government. - Socrates

Great post Sky-floating. I tend to agree with "almost" everything you have said as a fellow Libertarian/right leaning/agnost (figure that one out:lol However I did want to throw this out there as thought. I firmly believe that most of the generations (25-35) have less of a racial outlook than the generations before and after. Moreso with this generation coming up as the generation before are now in places of power and media and are fueling a "reinstitution" of segregation and "uber-entitlement" (read they deserve more of a chance than other races.) While I agree we sure as hell haven't dug the grave for racism, we have tried very hard and for the most part in areas in the U.S. that aren't generationally segregated, we can see the truth in this. However politicians and race-baiters are consolidating more and more power and influence with the youth and I fear unless this "push" isn't halted, we will wind up in race wars. I am not going to throw the "I have friends that are ______" card, as I know most of us on here, in and around us, just see friends. But I am also not blind to the growing and festering racial hatred by those whom see the race divide as a way to garner more power, position and influence. JM2C

Originally posted by apacheman
While that may be the the self-view of Republicans, it is certainly at odds with Republican behavior. Most Republicans I've known personally demand personal accountability for everyone but themselves, demand special treatment, have stiffed US veterans every chance they get, value cash in hand over family values, demand strict obedience to authority (as long as it is their approved authority), enforce those laws they like, ignore those they don't, are unwilling to pay a fair share, or to aid their fellow citizens in need. Most revere anyone who is wealthy, no matter how poor a parent, citizen, or human being: wealth is their only touchstone for worth. Most are pretty ignorant and are very proud of their ignorance. Selfishness is rampant among them. Pretty much all are two-faced; for instance, most will talk reverently about the "sanctity of contracts" while blithely demanding that union renegotiate every time management screws up, without once thinking of the disparity between word and deed..

None of that is me or my pals. You've fallen for far-left brainwashing.

my Republican friends think I should abandon my disabled brother to the state so that I can improve my personal economic position, and have frankly told me they would dump him in a heartbeat if they were in my position, calling me weak and soft for caring too much about someting other than myself. Their view is that he should sink or swim on his own.

Kindness, Compassion and looking out for the interests of family, neighbours and ones Community is one of the cornerstones of Conservativism.

Republicans are delusional

You dont know anything about us. Not the first thing.

kidnapping, torture, and aggression are okay if done in the name of profit.

Yeah, we're all heavily into torture, slaughter and greed.

Wake up man.

They've ruined the country

Theyve built it, actually.

mean, petty, ignorant, selfish, deceitful, intolerant, and lustful of power over others, power they usually use to harm, not help.

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by apacheman


Its propagandistic to take the 1% that are deranged nutjobs and pretend these represent the 99%.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Americans are so alike

I guess we need an ET-invasion to show people just how much they are alike.

reply to post by djvexd


You're right about racism being a thing of past generations. Its pretty alien to my generation...except in special areas of conflict.

Political Correctness is creating just as much racism as racists themselves imo, because the continually over-emphasize how "weak and miserable" various "minority" groups supposedly are.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

The main reason I am not of the far-left and also no anarchist is because they always assume something is wrong. I prefer politics based on vision rather than on protest. And while it is true that one thing or the other is wrong with our world there are also plenty of things that are right.

As opposed to the far right, who maintain that everything is hunky-dory?

I haven't read or heard a single right winger who thinks this Democrat-led administration is even just okay.

If you want vision, try "The Communist Manifesto." It has a very utopian vision. I don't buy it all, but it is inspiring.

The left also has positive values.