So people actually TRUST the government with their HEALTH?!?

reply to post by dizzie56

So how is this really reform? Its really just passing the buck to be honest.

i see what you're saying, but i dont think you're thinking it through fully.

I'm already paying for someone to not have insurance, this is correct

but i'm also paying so that i DO have insurance.

Why?

Well, if i refuse to pay, it is going to go on my credit record. I can't get a car loan, i can't get a house loan, couldn't get a capital one credit card.


So if i have MY choice, im going to eliminate the additional burden of having to pay $492 a month for my wife and me to have insurance...when i can just use some of that $$$ i've been pumping into my federal government all of these years.

Now - i, as an individual, am paying less, because i no longer pay my grossly over priced health insurance company in order to have the luxury of having a chance that they'll actually pay out on a claim.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by dizzie56

 

So how is this really reform? Its really just passing the buck to be honest.

i see what you're saying, but i dont think you're thinking it through fully.

I'm already paying for someone to not have insurance, this is correct

but i'm also paying so that i DO have insurance.

Why?

Well, if i refuse to pay, it is going to go on my credit record. I can't get a car loan, i can't get a house loan, couldn't get a capital one credit card.


So if i have MY choice, im going to eliminate the additional burden of having to pay $492 a month for my wife and me to have insurance...when i can just use some of that $$$ i've been pumping into my federal government all of these years.

Now - i, as an individual, am paying less, because i no longer pay my grossly over priced health insurance company in order to have the luxury of having a chance that they'll actually pay out on a claim.

So you are saying that since you will no longer have to pay the $492/month for you and your wife and instead use some of the money that you pay in taxes is going to make the problem go away? The way the bill stands now, having insurance will be mandatory. You no longer have a choice. If you dont have it, you will be punished by having to pay fees at the end of the year. How are the people that cant afford the insurance now going to be able to afford that extra burden of taxes at the end of the year. I know people that wont be able to afford the public option yet they will get hurt for not having it.

1) you will still be paying the $492/month plus the extra cost of the health care that has slid your way due to people not paying for health care.

2) the people that cant afford the public option are not only going to still get a bad credit report since they will not be able to pay the heavy tax at the end of the year as punishment, they will also be subject to going to jail for not paying the tax. So now, you not only have a health care system that will not be able to sustain itself without increasing the taxes every year and rationing care, you will also flood the prison system even more. What happens when we flood the prison system? We have to pay more taxes to build more prisons. Its a no win situation.

Ill ask it again. Why dont we first try what the republicans want? What will be the harm? We can try it for just a couple years, lets say 5 and see if it will work? Open the ability to buy insurance plans from across state lines and institute tort reform by capping limits on the amount companies have to pay for liability insurance. Lets just try those 2 things first. If they dont work, we can go to the public option and ill be all for it (as long as its worded a lil different lol). Instead of making more bureaucracy, lets try and get rid of some first and see if it will work. Creating more bureaucracy will just add to the highly bureaucratic system that we have in place. I really dont see the harm in this at all. Instead of just rushing to try and fix a problem by putting in more problems, lets try and get rid of some of the hurdles before hand. Those two things have never been tried yet and they wont cost us even a penny to institute besides congress' salaries. No, it wont cover everybody, but it will make it more affordable so more people can get a plan. Remember, the public option that is being discussed isnt even going to cover half of the people that are uninsured today.

reply to post by dizzie56


By your argument, why don't we try single payer? It would save tax money, eliminate the burden on the average person and it wouldn't be a forced mandate. It would also eliminate a vast amount of paperwork and time on the side of the health care providers.

If it's about the bottom line of cost, I see single payer as the answer. If it's about not using tax money, we can try the other approach, but I just don't see the insurance companies lowering the cost. as long as rescission and denying claims is standard course for cutting the bottom line in their profit model, I have little faith in them.

There are some countries that have succeeded with this later model, but the insurance companies are not allowed to deny claims, or rescind people from the books. The companies are required to carry a certain level of insurance, and must fulfill their obligation to actually pay up when the person does indeed need the services.

If we're going to use tax deductions we'll have to solve the problem of people that can't afford it to start with, and therefore could not have a deduction to claim.

There are other choices, I'm pretty sure the baucus/pelosi bill isn't one any of us are going to like.

reply to post by Seiko


No, by my arguement lets not try single payer lol. I said lets remove some bureaucracy and try that first before adding more. If you think that single payer would be removing bureaucracy, then I dont know what to tell ya cause it aint. Single payer would be the gov running the whole insurance market, not just part of it like a public option. As I said before, lets try it the other way first where there is less bureaucracy before we add way more red tape to a situation that is overly covered with it.

Adding tort reform would lower the cost of insurance that doctors have to carry, which, in turn would lower the cost of their overhead, which would lower the cost of what it would cost us to get a procedure done. That is, unless you say the doctors themselves are greedy as a whole and wouldnt lower their costs, but if that is the case why would you want to go to somebody that just looks at you like a bottom line, public option or not?

Also, allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines would greatly reduce the costs of health insurance. If I can get a cheaper policy in another state that has the same coverage, why shouldnt I be allowed to buy it? And wouldnt that lower what the other insurance companies prices as well? If not, they would price themselves right out of the market and be out of business so fast that their head would spin. These are just 2 things that I can think of, if they work after the 5 years, lets try removing more government. If they dont, we institute a public option (key word their is option and the writers of the bill must remember that instead of what is written as of today).

More then I trust a private company who is out to make money.
government needs me to stick around and pay taxes.

I do not necessarily trust the Government with my health care, but I absolutely DO trust the government to pay the bills for my health care.

Originally posted by Rhetoric
I do not necessarily trust the Government with my health care, but I absolutely DO trust the government to pay the bills for my health care.

That is probably the most ignorant statement that Ive heard so far from the arguement for health care reform via a public option.

reply to post by dizzie56


It made perfect sense to me.

Any system that allows the doctor/patient to make the decision I support. Sure wish we had a system like that here.

reply to post by dizzie56


Nobody asked for me to argue for a government health care plan, did they, so perhaps what is ignorant, is your assumption of what I was talking about.

how about.......

-45,000 deaths per year because of a lack of health care in the US

I think that's all that need be said on the matter. we're spending trillions on wars, so we can stop the boogy man from killing 3000 more in a high rise building, but a trillion in 10 years to save 45,000 lives is too expensive.

I do trust the government to pay for my health care needs, as do millions of senior citizens, millions of military veterans and thousands of current and former congressmen and senators, who are now trusting the government to pay for their health care needs.

is that appropriate enough for you? You need more? or am I still being ignorant?

Every-time I pay the $900 ea. a mo. premiums for health insurance for myself and my GF [self employed] I thank Jesus that there is some HMO, Insurance executive out there that will be able to afford to send his kid to an Ivy league school, drive a Porsche and have an Aspen valet for winter ski trips and a nice summer cottage on the Cape. They need it and they deserve it for the fine service they provide. [sarcasm]

Most of my health insurance claims have been denied and I had to pay out of pocket anyway.

Health Care for profit is one of the things that defines America and it's not pretty.

Pattern health care after the model set up for the Native Americans in the USA.
I was born here too.

www.ihs.gov...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by whaaa]

I had this randomly sent to me via youtube and thought it was very interesting. I actually view this the same way as this unanimous person. Just warning, it pretty long..


How the Swine Flu Vaccine Will Become Mandatory and Why Most Citizens Will Take It

Below is a hypothesized timeline on how the H1N1 vaccine could become mandatory. If the following events occur, perhaps it will help you to understand how you could be manipulated into taking the vaccine if you are currently undecided or even if you are dead set against taking it.

1. Test lethality of H5N1 (bird flu) virus in injectable form - June 08

In June '08, 21 out of 350 homeless people in Poland died after being injected with the H5N1 (bird flu) vaccine. See link below (1. Vaccine trial in Poland).

It is my supposition that eugenicists, elites who believe the human race should be depopulated in order to save the planet's ecosystem, were attempting to find the correct dosage of H5N1 (bird flu) virus required to cause death. Google/YouTube elite eugenicists want to depopulate to learn more.


2. Introduce H1N1 (swine flu) virus into the population - March 09

In late April of 2009, the swine flu breaks out in Mexico City. Scientists said the virus combines genetic material from pigs, birds and humans that researchers have not seen before. We are very, very concerned, World Health Organization spokesman Thomas Abraham said. We have what appears to be a novel (new) virus and it has spread from human to human. See link below (2. Swine flu is man made).


3. Declare World Health Organization Level 6 Pandemic - June 09

The purpose of declaring a Level 6 pandemic is to provide vaccines to the 194 countries which are members of the WHO, especially the undeveloped countries who could not develop nor afford the vaccines. The goal of the WHO is to produce 3 billion H1N1 vaccines within the next year.


4. Develop and manufacture the H1N1 vaccine - June09 to Present

The US government ordered 195 million H1N1 vaccines for this years flu season. Since only 195 million vaccines were ordered and the population of the US is 300 million, there will not be enough vaccines for everyone. Couple this fact with the fact that no states have yet signed into law mandatory H1N1 vaccinations, it is unlikely the vaccine will be made mandatory this flu season. However, the number of doses could be increased by mixing the vaccines with a squalene adjuvant, and in the event of a deadly mutation, emergency laws could be passed quickly. For more information on squalene adjuvant, see the message below entitled The Government Wants to Inject Me with the Same Stuff that Caused Gulf War Syndrome?


5. Hype the vaccine - July 09 to Present

As of October 11, 2009, the World Health Organization reports that 3406 people have died from the swine flu virus in the Americas, which includes South, Central and North America. The combined population of these regions is around 960 million people. According the CDC, the common flu kills over 35,000 people per year in the United States alone. So why is there all this media hype about how important it is to have the H1N1 vaccine? See link below (3. Just get your damn vaccine).

Also, learn how the mainstream media is owned by a handful of people by researching keywords controlled mainstream media. These few people dictate what the "talking heads" read off their teleprompts. Most of the general population simply assumes without question that the information being presented is accurate. See link below (4. The controlled media).


6. Introduce live H1N1 virus mist vaccine and spread the virus more - October 5, 2009

The first of the H1N1 vaccines were distributed on October 5. These vaccines were the inhalable mist type which contain live H1N1 virus and are sprayed into the nose. It seems to me that this would make people contagious and spread the virus even more. In fact, some school districts have refused to use this type of vaccine. See link below (5. Flu mist vaccine is contagious).


7. Introduce injectable H1N1 vaccines - October 15, 2009

On October 15 the injectable vaccines were released. The US government ordered a total of 195 million doses. As previously mentioned, there are 300 million people in the US, so there will not be enough vaccines for everyone. Currently, there is allegedly a delay in vaccine production. I have already seen long lines on television. Long lines for anything create a type of herd hysteria; e.g. movies, concerts, Christmas toys. People think to themselves Wow, look at that long line. Am I missing out on something?


8. President Obama officially declares Swine Flu a National emergency October 23, 2009

Obama wrote in the declaration, "As a nation, we have prepared at all levels of government, and as individuals and communities, taking unprecedented steps to counter the emerging pandemic." Notice the wording the emerging pandemic.

When the president declares a national emergency, two constitutional rights are subject to revocation:

•The right of habeas corpus
•The right to a grand jury for members of the National Guard when in actual service

Habeas corpus is a writ through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention; i.e. quarantine. It has historically been an important instrument for the safeguarding of individual freedom against arbitrary state action.


9. Insert a fractional percentage of live H5N1 (bird flu) virus into injectable batches of H1N1 vaccines Nov 09

I surmise within several weeks of the initiation of the swine flu vaccine injection, the percentage of people who die after supposedly contracting the virus will rise ever so slightly, such that very few of us will suspect that the vaccines have anything to do with the increase in the mortality rate. But what will really be causing the increase in deaths is that a tiny percentage (less than 1%) of the vaccines will contain the lethal H5N1 (bird flu) virus that was tested on the homeless in Poland.


10. Media mentions that the death rate has increased. Note that the death rate prior to vaccinations was 1.2% Nov-Dec 09

The mainstream media will spin this slight increase in deaths by saying the H1N1 virus may have mutated into something more deadly, and that scientist are monitoring the situation very closely. They will also say that it is more important than ever to get the swine flu vaccine, because although the virus may have mutated, the vaccine is still your best bet for protection. However, there will still be a vaccine shortage and the media will be showing long lines throughout the country to hype the herd.


11. Increase the percentage of live H5N1 (bird flu) virus in vaccines to increase death rate to 2% - Dec-Jan 09


12. Media begins to really hype virus mutation Jan 09

This is when the real hype will begin as the media will be covering the swine flu pandemic nonstop stating that the virus continues to mutate into something more deadly. But still, there is a vaccine shortage. Long lines are everywhere. As you can imagine, a shortage of something that can supposedly save your life will be a very high-demand item.


13. Continue to increase the percentage of live H5N1 (bird flu) virus in vaccines to increase death rate to 3% - Jan-Feb 10


14. The media is now stating There is no question, the virus has mutated and if you dont get the H1N1 vaccine, you will be endangering your family, friends, coworkers and anyone else you may come into contact with. Jan-Feb10

There will be reports of rioting at vaccine distribution locations. Perhaps you will even hear about right-wing militia groups stealing the vaccine. This will be a complete fabrication, unless of course the militia group is stealing the vaccine to destroy it. Regardless, it will be the excuse the government will use to get the National Guard and perhaps even the military involved in protecting distribution centers.


15. Continue to increase the percentage of live H5N1 (bird flu) virus in vaccines to increase death rate to 4% - Feb-Mar 10


16. Flu season ends with H1N1 death rate at 4 to 5% - Mar-Apr 10


17. Media hypes mandatory H1N1 vaccination stating we need to create a herd immunity to protect those who cannot take the vaccines because of compromised immune systems - Spring 10 thru Summer 10

You will begin to see a lot of media hype that the vaccine should become mandatory for the next flu season. The media will tell us that it is important for everyone to take the vaccine so that we can develop a herd immunity. This will not be true because for the flu virus, herd immunity is impossible as it mutates too rapidly.

According to Wikipedia, the following diseases have herd immunity thresholds: diphtheria, measles, mumps, pertussis, polio, rubella and smallpox. Notice there is no mention of influenza. See link below (6. Herd immunity).

The media will begin stating that if you do not get the H1N1 vaccine, you will be endangering those with suppressed immune systems who cannot be vaccinated (e.g. newborns, HIV infected, organ transplants, chemotherapy patients, etc). People who claim the vaccine is harmful will be ridiculed by the media as paranoid and will be labeled as a danger to society, i.e. a terrorist. And because habeas corpus has been suspended per the national emergency declared by Obama, they may well be detained without due process.


18. States begin to pass legislation making H1N1 vaccination mandatory - Summer 10

The Model State Emergency Health Powers Act, drafted in October of 2001, provides a guideline for states to use when legislating mandatory vaccination laws.
1.Force persons to be vaccinated, treated, or quarantined for infectious diseases.
2.Impose fines and penalties to enforce their orders.
3.Preempt existing state laws, rules and regulations, including those relating to privacy, medical licensure, and property rights (i.e. your property could be seized).
4.Mobilize all or any part of the organized militia into service to the state to help enforce the state's orders.
5.Ration firearms, food, fuel and alcoholic beverages, as well as other commodities.
6.Track and share an individual's personal health information, including genetic information (RFID?).

Massachusetts already has a mandatory vaccination law that has passed both their House and Senate and is awaiting the signature of Governor Deval. The law states that if you do not take the vaccine you can be fined $1000 per day and you could also be quarantined and your property could be seized (the reason for property seizure would be it is contaminated with a deadly virus). Other states will begin to follow the precedence set by Massachusetts. See link below (7. Massachusetts mandatory vaccination law).


19. All states will have mandatory H1N1 vaccination laws in place - September 10

So here we are in the flu season of 2010. The vaccine has been made mandatory in the USA and perhaps even world-wide. The public is panicked, but the government is ready this time. They have enough vaccinations for everyone. Most likely the vaccines will have a squalene adjuvant in them. For more information on squalene adjuvant, see the message below entitled The Government Wants to Inject Me with the Same Stuff that Caused Gulf War Syndrome?


20. Mandatory vaccinations begin and 90% of population agrees to take the vaccine. You will be identified as having taken the vaccine by an RFID bracelet - October 10 thru January 11

Even if you have had the vaccination last flu season, you will need another one just as you do with the regular flu because the virus has mutated. I am guessing that upwards of 90 percent of Americans will be receptive to taking the vaccine because of the increased death rate and because they believe the herd immunity deception. There will be no religious or philosophical exceptions.

There are several YouTube videos where people, some claiming to be military personnel, are saying the military is practicing road blocks and will give people a choice of being vaccinated or sent to a FEMA quarantine camp. They are also saying that you will be required to wear an RFID bracelet that proves you have taken the vaccine. See links below (8. RFID bracelet, 9. Military roadblocks).


21. If you have not taken the vaccine by January 1, 2011, you will be forcefully quarantined January 11 until Complete

I am guessing that about ten percent of US citizens will refuse to take the vaccine and will become outcasts and will be hunted down and quarantined. See links below (10. Fox news Mass quarantines, 11. FEMA camps, 12. FEMA coffins, 13. Mass graves).


22. RFID Chip will be inserted into your body 2012 until complete

Once all the people who refused to take the vaccine have been rounded up and dealt with and those who took the vaccine have become comfortable wearing their RFID bracelet, there will be a push to have the RFID chips implanted in the hand. By this time, the RFID bracelet will be linked to databases that contain medical records as well as financial information. Without an RFID, it will not be possible to participate in commerce; i.e. one will not be able to buy or sell. There will be many alleged cases of peoples bracelets being stolen and the obvious solution is to implant the RFID chip into the hand. (See links below (14. IBM RFID commercial, 15. RFID commercial, 16. RFID implantation).


23. Timeline Conclusion

So there it is. The plan is to reduce world population and chip those who remain. The first culling of the population will begin by forcing vaccines on the people. Naturally, those who refuse to take the vaccine would sure as heck refuse to have a chip implanted in them. So, it would make sense to identify these people and remove them from the population first. Those who remain will think, what a shame, if only they were not so paranoid and had taken the vaccine. But the vaccinations will continue because the virus will allegedly continue to mutate and people will continue to be killed off by vaccination until the world population is deemed to be at an acceptable level by the eugenicists. According to the Georgia Guidestones, that acceptable population will be 500 million people. Currently, there 6.8 billion people, so that would mean 6.3 billion people would have to be eliminated. See link below (17. Georgia Guidestones).


24. Time for some old-school preaching!

I know the way I have described this sequence of events seems bleak, but there is hope! If the vaccines are made mandatory, we must resist. If enough of us stand up and say no to the vaccine, then some of those who lacked the courage to say no will find their strength in numbers. And then, some of those who were pretty much clueless about why anyone would refuse the vaccine will also begin to awaken. And then even more people will rise up until there is a mass awakening and We the People will re-establish our Constitutional Republic and take our country back from the war-mongering international banking cartels (see link below (18. Money as debt)) and live peacefully as truly free human beings.

So I encourage everyone who reads this to take some kind of action. If you think this is a bunch of nonsense, take the action to research the links I have provided. If you become convinced or are already convinced that these events could happen, spread the word in whatever way you feel works for you. Above all, believe that we will be successful in our resistance because faith can move mountains! But do not wait. Now is the time to act. The government already has plans to limit internet bandwidth to non-essential websites in the event of a pandemic. The rationale is that so many people will be at home due to the pandemic that the internet will be clogged with game players and joy seekers. Im pretty sure YouTube, where the real and true news can be found, will be considered one of those non-essential websites. See link below (19. SEC and Homeland Security need Web backup).


Links

1. Vaccine trial in Poland
www.telegraph.co.uk...

2. Swine flu is man made
www.youtube.com...

3.The controlled media
www.youtube.com...

4. Just get your damn vaccine (excellent video)
www.youtube.com...

5.Flu mist vaccine is contagious
www.youtube.com...

6.Herd immunity
en.wikipedia.org...

7.Massachusetts mandatory vaccination law
www.youtube.com...

8.RFID bracelet
www.youtube.com...

9.Military roadblocks
www.youtube.com...

10.Fox News mass quarantines
www.youtube.com...

11.FEMA camps
www.youtube.com...

12.FEMA coffins
www.youtube.com...

13.Mass graves
www.youtube.com...

14.IBM RFID commercial
www.youtube.com...

15.RFID commercial
www.youtube.com...

16.RFID implantation
www.youtube.com...

17.Georgia Guidestones
en.wikipedia.org...

18.Money as Debt Fractional Reserve Banking Cartels Robbing the Public
www.youtube.com...

19. SEC and Homeland Security need Web backup
www.reuters.com...



The Government Wants to Inject Me With the Same Stuff that Caused Gulf War Syndrome?

A squalene adjuvant was used in anthrax vaccines and is what caused Gulf War Syndrome, an autoimmune disease. Symptoms attributed to Gulf War Syndrome include chronic fatigue, loss of muscle control, headaches, dizziness and loss of balance, memory problems, muscle and joint pain, indigestion, skin problems, shortness of breath, insulin resistance, brain cancer, fibromyalgia, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's Disease).

The purpose of an adjuvant is to increase the effectiveness of a vaccine thereby making it less costly to produce more vaccine. However, a squalene-based adjuvant is detrimental to human health. The human body has natural squalene within it, but when squalene is injected unnaturally into muscle tissue, the body sees it as a foreign substance and creates antibodies to destroy all squalene within the body which results in an autoimmune disorder.

Once your immune system creates squalene antibodies, these antibodies will continue to attack the natural squalene in your body indefinitely. You will be sick the rest of your life and your life will most definitely be shortened.

Go to US Department of Health and Human Services via this link

www.hhs.gov... (Humans and Health Services government site)

and see that over $400 million was spent on bulk oil and water adjuvants for the H1N1 vaccine. The bulk oil adjuvant is squalene. Currently, government officials claim that no squalene will be in the H1N1 vaccine, but they say that could change if the virus becomes more deadly and there becomes a need to increase the production of the vaccine. It seems to me that the government must be pretty sure the virus is going mutate; why else would they spend nearly half of a billion dollars on adjuvants?

Listed below are several links which discuss the H1N1 vaccination and the squalene adjuvant.

www.youtube.com... (Just get your damn vaccine excellent video)
www.youtube.com... (Squalene cause Gulf War Syndrome)
gulfwarvets.com... (Breakthrough on Gulf War illness)
www.whale.to... (What is the danger of swine flu vaccinations?)
www.yourspine.com... (Its all about the adjuvant)
autism-prevention.blogspot.com... (Squalene in H1N1 vaccines)
www.rense.com... (Components of H1N1 vaccines)

By the way, did you know vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued for harm caused by their vaccines? Learn about the 2006 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act via this link to the US Department of Health and Human Services web site and read how drug companies are now immune from being sued if their vaccines cause harm.

www.hhs.gov... (Humans and Health Services government site)



For those of you who believe God communicates with us through visions, go to this link and read Pastor Matutis vision about the swine flu vaccine.
www.stevequayle.com...

Originally posted by Rhetoric
reply to post by dizzie56

 

Nobody asked for me to argue for a government health care plan, did they, so perhaps what is ignorant, is your assumption of what I was talking about.

how about.......

-45,000 deaths per year because of a lack of health care in the US

I think that's all that need be said on the matter. we're spending trillions on wars, so we can stop the boogy man from killing 3000 more in a high rise building, but a trillion in 10 years to save 45,000 lives is too expensive.

I do trust the government to pay for my health care needs, as do millions of senior citizens, millions of military veterans and thousands of current and former congressmen and senators, who are now trusting the government to pay for their health care needs.

is that appropriate enough for you? You need more? or am I still being ignorant?

no, still ignorant. the government will not be paying for it...me and you will be.

that 45,000 people a year thing is complete bs. First, it was a study on 9,000 people and the conclusion was that 45k would have a higher risk of death due to not having insurance. It didnt even say if somebody died during the study. nor did it say if that person died due to a preventable disease that would have been covered had they person had insurance and the foresight to get a check up. hell, i have insurance and i dont even get check ups unless im sick as hell. for some reason, the people on the left have taken it apart and said that 45k die every year due to not having insurance...not so.

and why would you even bring up medicare? Its crap. Obama himself has admitted that it is crap and that is why he is wanting to move to the public option and eventually single payer. listen to your leader for a min or two and you woulda heard that. and the VA? Really? do we even have to mention the substandard care at the VA? WOW. The congress people trust the government paying for it because they dont have to pay jack...thats right, we are paying for it. and not only do they get it completely for free, they also have access to the best doctors in the united states at no cost to them what so ever. that is something neither you nor I will ever get unless we become congressmen, plain and simple. honestly, i actually would be a little less hell bent against the public option if the congressmen would get the same exact treatment that we would get, but they wont. they will still get the same old nice bloated plan that they have now. gotta love politicians.

Originally posted by whaaa

Pattern health care after the model set up for the Native Americans in the USA.
I was born here too.

www.ihs.gov...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by whaaa]

ROFLMAO. Were you serious with that statement or was the sarcasm button still on? Cause if you were serious, well, i have a feeling the herd will be culled very soon if Americans think the Native Americans have it great. If you werent serious, then I applaud your sarcasm. I really was lmao when i read this statement. You made my day, thank you very much.

reply to post by dizzie56



No it wasn't sarcasm. I would love to have the same kind of health care provided by the Indian Health Service. Did you even bother to look at the link?

I happen to live in the nexus of 3 Pueblos, Jemez, Santa Ana, Zia and 2 rez. Jicarilla and Navajo, and they receive excellent health care and support that is payed for by my tax dollars. Why should I be denied the same type of health care; instead of making some stockholders and CEOs extremely wealthy?

BTW one of my GF is a pharmacist with the IHS. Do you know what Indians pay for prescriptions?

Here is another link....info.ihs.gov...

Please provide some data to show me this is not a viable alternative.

BTW your insults don't work with knowledgeable folks.

And perhaps, here is another link that you should take a look at

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are so transparent! Rushbot.







[edit on 2-11-2009 by whaaa]

I'm not sure we can trust ANYONE with our health care???
My Blue Cross/Blue Shield that I pay for out of pocket went up in July...to be expected once a year,right?
Just got another letter today that the premium is AGAIN going up...nothing has changed on my end,haven't even gone to the Dr. this year so far,LOL! That's two substantial raises in less than 6 months...
Soooo....do they get us through their "government health care" OR do they jerk with the private insurers until they price the coverage totally out of our range???
I think the increase "timing" is related to the issue under scrutiny currently which IMO sucks.

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by dizzie56

 

No it wasn't sarcasm. I would love to have the same kind of health care provided by the Indian Health Service. Did you even bother to look at the link?

I happen to live in the nexus of 3 Pueblos and 2 rez. and they receive excellent health care and support that is payed for by my tax dollars. Why should I be denied the same type of health care; instead of making some stockholders and CEOs extremely wealthy?

Here is another link....info.ihs.gov...

Please provide some data to show me this is not a viable alternative.

BTW your insults don't work with knowledgeable folks.

would a study done in by the very government you are oh so happy to hand you life over to do?

from the report ( i dont know how to quote it on this forum so if a mod could it would be greatly appreciated) its on pg 3 btw.

Based on a Commission briefing, interviews, research, and a review of relevant literature, the report concludes that our nation’s lengthy history of failing to keep its promises to Native Americans includes the failure of Congress to provide the resources necessary to create and maintain an effective health care system for Native Americans. The Commission’s report documents the existence of cultural, social and structural barriers that continue to limit Native American access to health care.

www.usccr.gov...

If it is that great, then why does there have to be a congressional study based on its substandard care that is provided by congress? Also, when have you last heard that the Native Americans have anything that is great. they have crappy land, crappy health care, are extremely poor, high rates of alcholism, etc. Saying you want to use their health care system to me is saying that you want to play Russian roulette. Have fun with that one. And it wasnt an insult btw. I was merely making an observation upon the fact that if people think that the Native Americans have it going good then the herd will be culled due to lack of intelligence. Not calling you stupid directly, just making an observation upon the lack of intelligence in general if you have been lead to believe that they have it good.

how about this little video?
www.youtube.com...

Answer any questions for you?

reply to post by dizzie56

I was merely making an observation upon the fact that if people think that the Native Americans have it going good then the herd will be culled due to lack of intelligence. Not calling you stupid directly, just making an observation upon the lack of intelligence in general if you have been lead to believe that they have it good.

You tell me.....

What is better? An insurance plan that cost over 1k a mo and the claims are denied 1/2 the time or a government plan that pays for health care like the IHS even with it's flaws?

I would rather my tax dollars be paid to help people in need than already rich CEOs and stock holders.

and speaking of herd culling....

BTW did you read this.......www.abovetopsecret.com...
You are so transparent it makes me LMAO

oh yeah, Utube, what a great sourse for credible information....

Any questions?



[edit on 2-11-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by disfugured
The wait here in Canada I've noticed are very long and you do pay for healthcare via the high tax rate and the additional $145 every three months.

Why are you paying an additional $145 every 3 months? I'm Canadian and pay no such fee. Perhaps you have additional insurance for prescriptions/private hospital room or dental

~edit to add~

or maybe if your not a Canadian citizen you have to pay this fee?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Connector]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Yes I would.
I trusted them with my health care when I was in the service and I haven't had nearly as good care since. Plus I'm reasonably healthy and don't get sick that often- but on the occasions I have had to spend a day in the hospital, the bills have been mind boggling. And the last time was years ago.

Here's an idea- try not voting for people who's primary philosophy is that government is bad. We get the government we deserve and for the last couple of decades that line of thought has predictably brought us bad and worse government.

Here's a question for you- do you trust Wall Street with your health care?

Originally posted by Connector

Originally posted by disfugured
The wait here in Canada I've noticed are very long and you do pay for healthcare via the high tax rate and the additional $145 every three months.

Why are you paying an additional $145 every 3 months? I'm Canadian and pay no such fee. Perhaps you have additional insurance for prescriptions/private hospital room or dental

~edit to add~

or maybe if your not a Canadian citizen you have to pay this fee?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Connector]

How do you not.

This past year in Alberta we didn't have to pay it but thats the first year since I've lived here that that has happened. Alberta healthcare I pay 145 every three months. Every province is different I guess.